Would you think poorly of a woman in fur?
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free skin care · Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:03 pm

I'm an animal lover and a fashion lover as well. I wouldn't buy a new fur coat but I just bought a rare fur coat in a vintage shop that was made in 1960s. The condition is immaculate and the style is classic so people may think it's new if they didn't see the lining. I just got it because it truly was stunning and I've never come across one so beautiful. Ethically I am at peace about purchasing something that has already been made-Even PETA suggests donating furs to the homeless etc. instead of throwing it away.

I'm not sure what to think of wearing it. Faux fur is popular these days. At the same time, I realize I may be sending the wrong message when I do wear fur.

Your honest opinion would be appreciated. I would like to know what the general attitude towards a woman wearing fur is these days.

free skin care · Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:12 pm

First of all, I am an animal lover, I have pets and treat as family members. I also love the look and feel of fur and own several.I wear fur all winter. I ride public transportation and waiting in the cold and wind can be brutal on my arthritis and fibromyelgia. Fur keeps the wind and cold off like nothing else, and I tried everything so I don't want to hear synthetics, they don't even come close. I really figure it is my money, and my business. I only had one encounter with a rude person and that was in a deli. She asked if my coat was real when I said yes she said I was disgusting, so I asked her if she got so fat eating vegetables, she didn't know what to say. But actually I live in the northeast and it is very common to see fur here in the winter.

free skin care · Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:12 pm

Oh I admire your quick wit: "I asked her if she got so fat eating vegetables, she didn't know what to say" ha ha ha!!!! It sounds like something Anna Wintour would say. I live on the west coast and it's not as common here. My coat is an ocelot. Before I decided to buy it, I found it is illegal after 1970s to make and in the US, it is not allowed to be bought or sold across state lines so the chance of me finding one again would be slim.

free skin care · Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:49 pm

Enjoy your coat Angelina. Everyone can be "judged" on something or other. You are a woman of conscience.
I agree - living in the ne - fur keeps you warm like nothing else. I'd die to have a full length fur coat.
and Kudos for the answer on the coat. I had a fox fur once in my 20's and someone in a Mcdonalds gave me grief about it. I shrank away. I wish I had told that person what I thought of them and their meat loving habits... hahaha. Good for you.

free skin care · Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:09 pm

while i don't believe that you should be influenced by anyones else's opinion/perspective (including mine) as long as your own conscious is clean..nontheless if the question is how do i honestly feel about women wearing furs...i would definetely feel for the pain the animal went through in it's life and death....but i feel the same when i see someone eating them,as well.

free skin care · Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:21 pm

Thank you for your honest comments. I truly appreciate hearing both sides. Jasmine, I admire you for staying so true to your believes. Your opinion is especially valid since you're a vegan Smile

free skin care · Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:45 am

I've heard absolutely horrific stories about how the animals raised to make fur coats are treated - and the anti-fur sentiment that is around at the moment is certainly enough to make anyone feel guilty about wearing fur. However, you never hear much about what goes on in abattoirs - don't tell me that those places wouldn't be absolutely horrific too.

I also don't like the fact that cattle and pigs are starting to be raised in confined pens like battery chickens - something that I find very cruel. But my opinion is that wearing fur is essentially the same as wearing leather - some poor animal has had to die - whether it is a cow or a mink seems irrelevant.

The bottom line is that the world is a very cruel place - we're all on the food chain - some other creature's menu!

I'm not a vegan (although I'd love to be one). I'm sure I could give up eating meat - but shoes and handbags..............?!

Enjoy wearing your coat - the women in Europe don't give it a second thought.

free skin care · Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:05 am

As it was stated by Keliu this world is cruel. This world will never be perfect nor will we all get along and agree on all topics. (Even more importantly is the horrible human suffering on this planet.) However as a huge animal rights supporter...I think wearing fur is selfish, heartless and cruel.

All i know is for myself and many others seeing a fur coat reminds us of the torture involved. Fur is not a by product like leather and although cows are mistreated in their final moments - as Keliu also stated it doesnt really matter. However, for me it does make it WORSE knowing an animal suffered by freezing, starving, bleeding to death or various other horrible possibilities JUST for its fur in order to make a fashion statement and/or to keep a human warm. Im sorry i think the warmth issue is an excuse to WANT to wear fur because to a lot of people it is attractive. But to me it all comes down to being selfish.

I live in the NE too. Myself, my friends and family have all been absolutely fine without wearing fur. IM sure youre a very nice woman especially since you brought this up - I can tell this issue matters to you... and although no one else here seems to agree 100% with me I can tell you for sure I am definitely not alone.

Of course, you have every right to do what you want. I actually am not that person who would say something to someone wearing a fur - but my feelings and thoughts towards that person are obvious. For me... there is just NO excuse for humans to wear fur. sorry

just my opinion... Smile

free skin care · Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:50 pm

I posted about this topic because I wanted opinions from a cross section of the population. I've learned more about how fur stirs up thoughts of animal suffering for some which I didn't even realize before. My next question is- what about faux fur? Because it is "in style" this season, there are more people wearing animal prints- faux or real. Do you think people who feel that fur is wrong would make the effort to take a closer look to see if a garment is faux or real? Or would they think poorly of a person regardless. This topic is especially interesting to me because I'm a student.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:30 am

angelina wrote:

Do you think people who feel that fur is wrong would make the effort to take a closer look to see if a garment is faux or real? Or would they think poorly of a person regardless. This topic is especially interesting to me because I'm a student.

My daughter was abused by someone once for wearing faux fur - they thought it was real! She had this fabulous faux fur vest but she was always worried that she was going to get eggs thrown at her!

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:40 am

mb935 wrote:

As it was stated by Keliu this world is cruel. This world will never be perfect nor will we all get along and agree on all topics. (Even more importantly is the horrible human suffering on this planet.) However as a huge animal rights supporter...I think wearing fur is selfish, heartless and cruel.

All i know is for myself and many others seeing a fur coat reminds us of the torture involved. Fur is not a by product like leather and although cows are mistreated in their final moments - as Keliu also stated it doesnt really matter. However, for me it does make it WORSE knowing an animal suffered by freezing, starving, bleeding to death or various other horrible possibilities JUST for its fur in order to make a fashion statement and/or to keep a human warm. Im sorry i think the warmth issue is an excuse to WANT to wear fur because to a lot of people it is attractive. But to me it all comes down to being selfish.

I live in the NE too. Myself, my friends and family have all been absolutely fine without wearing fur. IM sure youre a very nice woman especially since you brought this up - I can tell this issue matters to you... and although no one else here seems to agree 100% with me I can tell you for sure I am definitely not alone.

Of course, you have every right to do what you want. I actually am not that person who would say something to someone wearing a fur - but my feelings and thoughts towards that person are obvious. For me... there is just NO excuse for humans to wear fur. sorry

just my opinion... Smile

You've summed up exactly how I feel about this subject, mb935.

Unfortunately, China is passing off real fur as fake because real fur is so cheap for them to produce, so those of us who prefer to avoid real fur should check very, very carefully before making a purchase.

Cat and dog lovers who do choose to buy real fur should also be careful as Chinese imported fur can also be from those animals, as well as from other creatures banned from being exported to the US and Europe.

Here's some info if you'd like to know more. Is Your Fake Fur Really Cat Fur: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-444606/Is-fake-fur-really-cat-fur.html

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:51 am

They eat cats and dogs in China. They have them in cages outside of the restaurants - you can choose which little kitty you'd like tossed in the wok. Completely horrendous and heartbreaking, I know - I've never forgotten the sight of them. But ethically, I'm still not sure whether this is any different to eating any other animal.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:02 am

Keliu wrote:

They eat cats and dogs in China. They have them in cages outside of the restaurants - you can choose which little kitty you'd like tossed in the wok. Completely horrendous and heartbreaking, I know - I've never forgotten the sight of them. But ethically, I'm still not sure whether this is any different to eating any other animal.

Perhaps not in general terms, but we each have our own ethics and standards, and I'd rather warn those who might enjoy wearing fur but who would baulk at the idea of wearing cats and dogs because they have an emotional attachment to those particular species. I don't think you can generalise in those terms.

What's fine for one person or culture doesn't always sit well with another. For instance, I have a Chinese friend who is horrified at the thought of eating or drinking dairy products.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:10 am

My oldest daughter's dearest friend lived in the Philippines (parents worked for US government).
Her nightmare story was they had a huge fluffy German shepherd type dog, well it didn't come home one night. In the morning when they all woke up, outside was a rather large neat pile of bones. On top of the pile was a note saying "Thank you for your dog, it was delicious for dinner last night".
It's so different what animals are fair game depending on cultures. I don't judge others wearing fur and would never even say a word to someone. I did however refuse to take 1 mink stole 1 full length mink coat and a full length seal coat that my father had purchased for my mom back in the late 50's. He wanted me to have them when she passed away. Yet I am not a vegetarian and yes I own leather shoes and bags.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:11 am

What a shocking story! I definitely won't be travelling with Lulu to the East - not that she'd make much of a meal.

I try not to judge what other cultures do either - but it's hard - there's so much controversy in Australia about Japanese whaling (which I think is disgusting).

Personally, I think God was having a really off day when he/she decided that one creature must die to sustain another. Mind you, when I was a little girl my mum always used to get me to shell the peas - I used to feel really guilty about taking them out of their nice cosy little pod!!

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:19 am

Dark Moon - What an awful thing to have happened! I feel sick imagining how I would have felt, had that been my poor dog!

Keliu - Yes, it is difficult as we are all human beings, yet we all think in different ways.

I love your cute pea story. My mum used to guilt-trip me whenever I left a single pea on my dinner plate. She'd say, "Look at that poor, lonely pea, all on its own. If you don't eat it so it can join its friends in your tummy, it will feel really sad."

Poor peas! Laughing

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:28 am

Yeah. The horrible torture of animals around the world is just nausiating. I go to a site every day and sign petitions for animals etc. Care2.com. some of it is unbearable to read... but needs attention for sure.

Keliu reminded me w/ her comment to mention this.... I did a bit of research awhile back. In the jewish, christian and even muslim religions (ill have to re-research the latter cause I can't remember exactly how this was similar).

It is interpreted that in genesis God created man to live WITH animals in peace. In a sense we were created to be vegetarians. It wasn't until sin came into the world that we were meant to suffer and have to hunt for food etc. Unfortunately animals therefore had to suffer also..

Even if someone doesn't have a religious view id think this would still be pretty interesting.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:28 am

Keliu and Majorb,

I am not often speechless yet hearing this then teenage girl tell that story I was totally dumbfounded! She, her brothers and parents were devastated at losing their beloved dog and in such a way. Yet culturally it's apparently normal to the native people of the Philippines. We had seen a documentary somewhat underground film about puppies there I won't describe but it is a horrid practice! That is when this story came out, it would devastate me if I had that happen to a pet.

Keliu,

Your pea story put in my mind the Anne Geddes picture of the baby snuggled in the pea pod for some reason!

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:42 am

mb935,

It's in the old testament that at some point after being banned from the Garden of Eden, the Hebrews were starving due to drought I believe. They had a covenant with God and were given permission to eat animal flesh, but with many conditions, that's where Kashrut/Kosher laws came about. The animal must be killed with one clean cut and die in 3 seconds. They couldn't kill any more than what was for food. There is more but the most important thing was to minimise the possible suffering of any animals slaughtered. Orthodox Jews follow these laws to this day.

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:09 pm

^ I don't even know it is scientifically possible for an animal to die within 3 seconds of a clean cut slaughter for meat. The heart would still be beating...

free skin care · Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:17 pm

angelina wrote:

^ I don't even know it is scientifically possible for an animal to die within 3 seconds of a clean cut slaughter for meat. The heart would still be beating...

I don't pretend to know either angelina, I just know about Kosher laws pertaining to slaughtering and most of the rest. This may help explain.

Under Ethical Eating:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashrut?wasRedirected=true

Animal welfare

Kashrut prohibits slaughter of an unconscious animal. Kosher slaughter, shechita, involves cutting the trachea and esophagus with a sharp, flawless knife. At the same time, the carotid arteries, which are the primary supplier of blood to the brain, are severed. The profound loss of blood and the massive drop in blood pressure render the animal insensate almost immediately. Studies done by Dr. H. H. Dukes at the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine indicate that the animal is unconscious within seconds of the incision.[49] According to Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner, "... kosher slaughtering is the way that Jews try to minimize the pain and fear felt by animals being killed for food."[50]

In 1978, a study incorporating EEG (electroencephalograph) with electrodes surgically implanted on the skull of 17 sheep and 15 calves, and conducted by Wilhelm Schulze et al. at the University of Veterinary Medicine in Germany concluded that "the slaughter in the form of a ritual cut is, if carried out properly, painless in sheep and calves according to EEG recordings and the missing defensive actions" (of the animals), but that when Captive Bolt Stunning (CBS) was used, which is common in normal (non-kosher) slaughtering,[51] "For sheep, there were in part severe reactions both in bloodletting cut and the pain stimuli."

free skin care · Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:38 am

DarkMoon wrote:

Under Ethical Eating:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashrut?wasRedirected=true

Animal welfare

Kashrut prohibits slaughter of an unconscious animal. Kosher slaughter, shechita, involves cutting the trachea and esophagus with a sharp, flawless knife. At the same time, the carotid arteries, which are the primary supplier of blood to the brain, are severed. The profound loss of blood and the massive drop in blood pressure render the animal insensate almost immediately. Studies done by Dr. H. H. Dukes at the Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine indicate that the animal is unconscious within seconds of the incision.[49] According to Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner, "... kosher slaughtering is the way that Jews try to minimize the pain and fear felt by animals being killed for food."[50]

In 1978, a study incorporating EEG (electroencephalograph) with electrodes surgically implanted on the skull of 17 sheep and 15 calves, and conducted by Wilhelm Schulze et al. at the University of Veterinary Medicine in Germany concluded that "the slaughter in the form of a ritual cut is, if carried out properly, painless in sheep and calves according to EEG recordings and the missing defensive actions" (of the animals), but that when Captive Bolt Stunning (CBS) was used, which is common in normal (non-kosher) slaughtering,[51] "For sheep, there were in part severe reactions both in bloodletting cut and the pain stimuli."

That's really interesting to read, DM.

I'm neither a vegetarian or a vegan (due to a severe type of colitis I suffered years ago, my diet is extremely restricted whenever I have a flare-up, so would be unable to survive on only a few carrots, peas and a tiny piece of well-toasted thin white bread), but I do care very much about the way in which the animals whose flesh I eat are treated.

I always buy my meat from a local farm, where I can actually see them in the fields and know that they are properly fed and cared for. I also know that their journey to the abbatoir is a very short one - rather than across country or from abroad, as is often the case.

However, what happens in abattoirs does worry me. I hope and trust that my local slaughterhouse carries out their work in as professional and humane manner as possible, but I can't obviously guarantee that, since I've never seen them work.

There's a big outcry at the moment here in the UK about almost all of the meat supplied to supermarkets and many other restaurants now being Halal in order to make it suitable for Muslims. I felt very strongly against this, for humane reasons rather than religious ones but, if that information is true, then I might change my mind on my former stance.

Of course, it all depends on the person carrying out the slaughter as to whether it is done properly. So I'm still very much in favour of secret filming inside animal slaughter and the awful mass animal "production" facilities. Any malicious cruelty, negligence or incompetence should be brought to light and stamped out.

free skin care · Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:50 pm

I've been a vegetarian for 15+ years, and I have to say that I'm VERY against people wearing fur. I'm sorry to say this because you all sound like such nice ladies and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I absolutely think less of people when I see them wear fur. It breaks my heart to think of any animal experiencing pain, but to think of the torture that those poor animals raised for fur endure is more than I can stand. I couldn't bear wearing even a vintage fur because it's almost like I would be able to sense the anguish of the animal it came from.

That being said, 3 cheers for the great faux furs that are being produced today. Many socially conscious magazines such as O will ONLY feature clothing items if they have faux fur instead of real fur. Quality faux fur really can be as warm and as pretty as real fur. I have a lovely full length faux fur coat--- I used to wear it in -40 degree winters in Minnesota and barely felt a thing!

I think it might have been Sir Paul McCartney (bless him!) who said that if slaughter houses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. I firmly believe that if people saw how fur was produced, no one would ever wear a real fur coat.

free skin care · Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:17 pm

majorb,

One of my sons has ulcerative colitis and I know the nightmare of his flairs all too well! He could not survive on a vegetarian or vegan diet as too much fiber shreds the lining of the colon!

As to the certainty of Kosher I do know that for the Jewish faith a Rabbi must oversee the slaughter and these people who actually kill the animals are trained for years before they are certified.

For the Muslim faith I am assuming that some authority also would verify that this is done within the religious laws.

free skin care · Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:21 pm

I do agree with the secret filming of many places that produce meat and poultry for the general public. I have read becoming vegan and what goes on and how cattle, chickens ect. are treated is appalling to me also!

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