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Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:05 am  |
Hi - I have been corresponding with Dr Fernandes of Environ; it started by me asking him:
- if copper and Environ Vit C collide (he says no, but didn't think copper was useful anyway)
- providing us with travel sizes
- and then I asked him about ultrasound. This was his reply:
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I can't speak about your device but just about ultrasound in general. Ultrasound is usually in the region of 1 to 2 or even 3 MHz and has been disappointing in enhancing penetration. In practice it enhances by a factor of 2 which you could achieve by applying the product to the skin and then covering with saran (kitchen) plastic wrap and waiting 20 minutes. That's not impressive. Watch the Environ web page about an effective device next year. We never release anything without thorough research.
[snipped out stuff about travel sizes]
Kind regards
Des Fernandes |
So... I wonder if it's a baby version of what they use for their salon treatments?
KL |
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Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:43 pm |
| I just purchased some more Environ products today. I am disappointed to hear what he has to say about the ultrasound since I just purchased a device a couple of months ago. I still think it has benefits though, even if product penetration is not one of them. I know the doctor does recommend using a derma roller with small needles for product penetration. I also purchased his cosmetic focus CIT which also creates channels in the skin for product penetration. I was surprised to find out that it is a stamp and not a roller. I think I will like trying out this type of needling device. |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:44 am |
| Well, I can remember when he was recommending the use of Ultrasound, especially in combination with Dermarolling. I'm pretty sure the information is in one of the articles on Dermarolling by Dr. Fernandes that Bethany compiled - it's on the sticky thread containing Dermarolling articles and clinical studies. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:01 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Well, I can remember when he was recommending the use of Ultrasound, especially in combination with Dermarolling. I'm pretty sure the information is in one of the articles on Dermarolling by Dr. Fernandes that Bethany compiled - it's on the sticky thread containing Dermarolling articles and clinical studies. |
I don't think so, Keliu. I don't remember Fernandes recommending ultrasound. Are you sure you aren't thinking of Huber/302? He was for dermarolling and ultrasound. |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:33 am |
No, it was Fernandes - here it is, I've found it. However, he uses the terms iontophoresis and sonophoresis - but this is ultrasound, isn't it?
From day 3 or 4 onward, iontophoresis [10]
and low-frequency sonophoresis of vitamin A and C could maximize the induction of healthy collagen. Iontophoresis also tends to reduce the swelling of the skin, which also helps the patient look better sooner. Low-frequency sonophoresis can be used alone without
iontophoresis to enhance penetration of palmitoyl pentapeptide or other peptides (eg, palmitoyl hexapeptide, copper peptides, and so forth), which also may increase the creation of healthy collagen and elastin.
http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:03 am |
See here also:
08/26/2004. CLINICAL RESULTS - Environ® Topical Skin Care
Dr Des - Environ
The treatments offered by Environ® are in all probability the most effective skin care treatments available in the world today.
Iontophoresis has been combined with the power of sonophoresis to give maximum penetration of the essential vitamins and growth factors that are essential for the restoration of firm, smooth and beautiful skin.
Dr Des Fernandes has concentrated on producing the most scientifically targeted products for use with the Environ DF Ionzyme Device and as a result Environ® can offer effective skin care for people with:
http://www.dermogenesis.com/clinical/clin_art.php?aid=55 |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:12 am |
Not sure if you mean Copper or Copper Peptides, but Copper Peptides have been featured in many studies that have shown they do have rejuvenation capabilities and it used to be suggested not to use Vit C with CPs as they cancelled each other out, but I understand from SkinBio that they have said that they get lots of clients doing both and having good results. Just wanted to double check thats what you mean?
| karenlee wrote: |
| - if copper and Environ Vit C collide (he says no, but didn't think copper was useful anyway) |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:18 am |
I believe they are all related. This is from the wiki link you posted above on sonophoresis:
Sonophoresis occurs because ultrasound waves stimulate micro-vibrations within the skin epidermis and increase the overall kinetic energy of molecules making up topical agents. It is widely used in hospitals to deliver drugs through the skin.
So the sonophoresis or ultrasound waves help topicals penetrate the skin.
I remember all of this quite clearly because it was Dr. Fernandes' recommendations on ultrasound that made me purchase my Belaire model. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:40 am |
I will be anxious to learn more about this device they will be offering, when available.
Thanks for letting us know.
I may be crazy, but that organization seems less "hawkster-ish" than most.
 BF |
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