Face exercise destroyed my face
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Fri Oct 15, 2010 6:51 pm

sounds awful

free skin care · Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:01 am

Thanks for responding Sean.

i actually have been doing Flex Effect 3 ..i think i started doing it regularly around the end of june or so...but i don't do the exercises every day(although i'll do something from FE every day...pressure reps or jolting or massage,etc) as i also still do Ageless as well (and lately have been extremely enamored with Senta Maria Runge...i really like her exercises that are combo's of resistance and isometrics)...and also do a variety of acupressure/shiastu/do-in techniques !!!!

perhaps i'm utilizing well the protein and carbs i do eat ..

at any rate i know traditionally minerals don't build muscle...but i still wonder if in some less traditional way..or some less 'direct' way... they do influence our muscles...(don't have anything to back this up scientifically, though...just pondering!).

free skin care · Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:05 am

hi daler...i think it's quite possible you are seeng toning and even a lift after a week ....how old are you..i think it depends on age as well as gender (and of course other factors as well!)

free skin care · Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:26 am

Great re the 3rd edition, and if you have been doing facial exercises a while, then your probably have sufficient knowledge to know when is too much, or not enough etc, but its that kind of info that I often think newbies to facial exercises don't yet have and then they try to modify and intensify their routines and end up with results they're less than pleased with, and it takes time to build up that kind of knowledge. Also many people greatly misunderstand the working out 5 days a week suggestion, and there is really a science behind it but ca la vie.

With minerals, and diet, they are without doubt essential. Minerals are what our skin needs without doubt, and I know if loose skin is present, then you can usually bet to some 99% that there is a lack of one of them in a person's body for it to appear, but the trouble with minerals, vits, EFAs is people get so focused on one that they neglect the other and its not so much that one is more important than the other, as I truly believe they work in harmony together within the body, so if one of them is out, it puts a strain on the others and there is only so much they can do. Thats why I believe its essential to go for learning whats healthy for your body and trying to obtain those through foods, but also recognising that unless people are growing foods themselves and even if they are buying organically, due to the way foods are grown nowadays I consider supplementation to be essential (even if a person is a raw fooder), and I was at a raw food convention only a few weeks ago and was pleased to see this was felt the same by others and to me this showed in their results.

Great thoughts though - keep them coming!

Sean

jasminerosey wrote:

i actually have been doing Flex Effect 3 ..i think i started doing it regularly around the end of june or so...but i don't do the exercises every day(although i'll do something from FE every day...pressure reps or jolting or massage,etc) as i also still do Ageless as well (and lately have been extremely enamored with Senta Maria Runge...i really like her exercises that are combo's of resistance and isometrics)...and also do a variety of acupressure/shiastu/do-in techniques !!!!

perhaps i'm utilizing well the protein and carbs i do eat ..

at any rate i know traditionally minerals don't build muscle...but i still wonder if in some less traditional way..or some less 'direct' way... they do influence our muscles...(don't have anything to back this up scientifically, though...just pondering!).

free skin care · Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:30 am

Well even guys can have their hormones unbalanced, and whilst it can be argued that some can build muscle easily, its something that I have to say I've found to be untrue. I've had male and female clients who have easily built muscle, and some who haven't and so its really a difficult stero type to say is completely factual. For example, when guys in their middle years start having their hormones rapidly unbalance, its not uncommon for a guy to literally age 10 years in a very short space of time. Having said that usually guys do have some pros going for them such as eating a muscle building kind of diet, or supplementation etc. Its something they often do with their bodies and they recognise their face is no exception.

Males or females generally will see changes within a short span of time when beginning facial exercises, but these are by no means the final product, but a taster of what is yet to come, which is encouraging, so like I would advise most people, I'd really encourage you to take photos regularly as these will show you changes you might otherwise overlook.

Sean

daler wrote:

Males can very easily build body muscles as compared to females because of the male hormone, testosterone, so I have no doubt that men can build up facial muscles much easily as well; I am a guy and just recently, not even a week ago, started doing some facial exercises and am totally amazed at the results!or may be I am just being delusional.... but honestly I do see and feel my face very toned and even lifted a bit...

free skin care · Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:56 pm

jasminerosey wrote:

hi daler...i think it's quite possible you are seeng toning and even a lift after a week ....how old are you..i think it depends on age as well as gender (and of course other factors as well!)

I am 31, I go to the gym regularly so my body is in pretty good shape ( not a body builder, just lean toned) but I felt as if my face was sagging and needed some intervention. So far I am pretty impressed with the results but I ll be careful not to over do it either...

Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:52 am

HI all.
Having read all which has been written in favour of facial exercises, my concern has not still been dealt with.
every forum i go to iam told whn we stop exercising a muscle it comes back to normal the way it was is it so? Does it return back exactly or shows out a bit as it has been developed,even if u stop working on it.
imagine what a diff of even 2mm or a little outwards pout would make to your appearance of upper lp and nose, this is the view point of surgeons or ppl oppose face exercises.
People selling face exercises never seem to present a clear pic that ONCE YOU START YOU HAVE TO DO THEM ALL YOUR LIFE.
OFcourse we are told just stop doing it and your face wud b bk to normal is it so? Is it gona be exact mirror image of what i had a month ago sir?
No then there is always an issue with diet, question DO I NEED BETTER DIET FOR MY MUSCLE TO RETURN BK TO NORMAL COMPARE TO WHAT I HAD FOR BUILDING IT? Which is a harder task for body to achieve.
Take care all

free skin care · Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:17 am

I think I have answered this question to you (if you are the same individual I think you are) in PMs, and to explain it very much depends on how that muscle has been overbuilt or built up and what other factors are taking place with that person.

So for example, in your case, as you have written above you have been dealing with lots, and your body is going to be concerned (as everybody's will be) with survival. Its the body's number 1 priority. So when you overdid things initially, it tapped into your body's survival and thats why the muscle overbuilt. Now if you allowed that muscle to atrophy (which it should do if its rested) then the muscle should revert back to its former state. If however, your resting, but doing say the odd exercise or stimulating the area, thats going to interfere with that muscle reverting back to its former state. Likewise if your body is dealing with physical challenges or health challenges, then these will be at the top of the agenda before the face will.

If a muscle is allowed to atrophy, it literally returns back to its former state, but if you keep stimulating it, then it will revert back to some of its former state but to what degree will vary depending on the stimulation of those muscle fibres, which is why most programs say facial exercise are a lifetime commitment. At FlexEffect, we've always made a point of telling people facial exercises are a lifetime commitment, but I know of several programs which also say the same and you will have found mention of it in most systems - so its incorrect when you say, we never present a clear picture, as we very much do, but its often overlooked by people.

I've overbuilt several things in the past, and honestly when I stop exercising it, and leave the area alone it always returns back to its former state, and I've had clients who have done the same, so I know it can and will if all the right factors are there.

Its not so much that there is always an issue with diet, as for some people there will be none, but discovering what the best diet is for your own individual body is no easy task and its done over time, but diet isn't just essential for the face, but also our general health. Also in today's society its pretty tough getting all the nutrients we need from food for our basic metabolic functions, let alone muscle building or body/face repair and many times it just needs small tweaking to get things moving along.

The reason I mentioned diet was in relation to the gauntness point you raised, and to help others who may encounter that same thing. Could diet help you return to your former state - who knows, but surely its an avenue worth exploring and if it helps you get there faster I figured it was worth mentioning.

yoga wrote:

HI all.
Having read all which has been written in favour of facial exercises, my concern has not still been dealt with.
every forum i go to iam told whn we stop exercising a muscle it comes back to normal the way it was is it so? Does it return back exactly or shows out a bit as it has been developed,even if u stop working on it.
imagine what a diff of even 2mm or a little outwards pout would make to your appearance of upper lp and nose, this is the view point of surgeons or ppl oppose face exercises.
People selling face exercises never seem to present a clear pic that ONCE YOU START YOU HAVE TO DO THEM ALL YOUR LIFE.
OFcourse we are told just stop doing it and your face wud b bk to normal is it so? Is it gona be exact mirror image of what i had a month ago sir?
No then there is always an issue with diet, question DO I NEED BETTER DIET FOR MY MUSCLE TO RETURN BK TO NORMAL COMPARE TO WHAT I HAD FOR BUILDING IT? Which is a harder task for body to achieve.
Take care all

free skin care · Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:19 am

Doing facial exercise resulted in substantial gauntness and added about 20 years to my apparent age. I stopped doing Flex Effect a few months ago and have been trying to consume healthy fat (almonds, avocados, EFA oils) but it has not helped.

I have great cheek definition -- yay -- but the tradeoff is not worth it. It's not easy for me to gain weight since I try to eat a healthy diet and I work out pretty rigorously.

Facial exercise is probably not a good idea for people who are on the thin side already.

Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:25 am

yep you got it right sean , iam the same guy, just hiding from my friends and family online,using different id.

i am sorry i might sound harsh and bitter but its hard to perceive that i would loose tones of facial fat after just two weeks of exercise.I started of with facercise and when my face got wrecked i went in desperation in search for other programs and then i found flex effect.

Regarding muscle atrophy and revertion , i know and have read that it should come back to normal but then, certain facial muscle we use frequently , in my case , mouth(upper lip, philtrum) muscle as i speak or eat..

Does it mean that it would never revert back as there is not rest.I was moaning the other day regarding prolonged philtrum , but after cheking my old pictrues turns out to be that my phitrum was always the same , but because there was no mass on upper lip it kinda stayed under the nose but now it stands out along with the rest of lip. I dont know if it has gone back to normal as the size is the same , but still its not the same.

Let me take this oppertunity to thank you for you helpful and considerate pms.

just waiting for the miracle to happen..
take care,

free skin care · Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:00 am

yoga, I hope you sort it all out! Good luck, and I'm sending you positive wishes Smile

Hermosa wrote:

Doing facial exercise resulted in substantial gauntness and added about 20 years to my apparent age. I stopped doing Flex Effect a few months ago and have been trying to consume healthy fat (almonds, avocados, EFA oils) but it has not helped.

I have great cheek definition -- yay -- but the tradeoff is not worth it. It's not easy for me to gain weight since I try to eat a healthy diet and I work out pretty rigorously.

Facial exercise is probably not a good idea for people who are on the thin side already.

As a thin person myself, I want to add a more positive story to the mix, too: my hollows are almost entirely filled in--yay! And that's all due to "heavy resistance" facial exercise that built up fullness in my lower face. Smile

I actually had gauntness before I started facial exercise. In the beginning, facial exercise didn't seem to really help or excerbate my gauntness. In the past few months, though (about 1.5 years into FlexEffect), I really starting making significant progress. It turns out that what I personally needed most--and wasn't getting before--was build along the jawline (facial platsyma bands) and the risorius (though the masseter and buccs helped, too). It turns out that my risorius is about level with with earlobe and I have a long earlobe to jaw distance, so building up my risorius has worked much better than trying to work on my buccs. So we are all different Smile

But I agree with Hermosa that people who are the thinner side tend to have more challenges than those who aren't, but hopefully, they will eventually find something that works for them Smile

free skin care · Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:26 am

I agree that thinner people need to be more carefull with facial exercise.
I have had a small line develop through exercising one area only....im now waiting for the area to atrophy (hopefully).
However, we are our own worst judge and the stories of looking 20 years older by doing facial exercises seem hard to comprehend.....after all we exercise our face daily anyway through smiling and blinking etc.
It would be interesting to see before and after pics of how exercise has hurt peoples looks so much.
Although i agree that aggresive facial exercise does have its negatives, it also may be that people are being overcritical of themselves?

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:18 am

You know we’re always our worst critics, and many times we subject ourselves to more criticisim than we would ever dream of subjecting another to, and if your feeling down, then sometimes its wise to really tune into what we’re saying to ourselves and change those words.

With loss of facial fat, remember you were doing almost 3 times (if not more) than what was recommended, as you believed you would get more results that way. So muscles would needing protein etc to recuperate from doing one set of those exercises, but your muscles were really overworked and as a result their need for protein, carbs, vits, minerals etc were greatly raised as a result of overdoing it. So your body wanting to protect itself and survived look around at what resources it had that it considered it could use for repairing the muscles without getting into hot water and in your case, it determined the facial fat you had to be a source that it could use without losing its life. Its really all it is. Having said that, doing what you did, and then trying another program (and from memory it was only the dvd you used), and I suspect you tried a few other things in your search, you wouldn’t have eased your body into recovery, merely kept working an already overworked body. No biggie, its all part of your journey and the important thing to learn from these lessons is the lesson themselves.

Now with the muscles, when you make say expressions when eating or speaking, your not usually using full muscle fibres etc. If you were, there would really be no need for facial exercises. So really you want to look at not engaging them fully or perhaps just being conscious to rest the area, or distress it for example. Its not to say you should give up talking or eating (by no means), but just to become aware that when your not talking or eating, your resting the area rather than tensing it etc which will prevent the recovery.

Your face probably still isn’t the same because your dealing with quite a lot at this moment in time, and with your general health etc, until you get that back on form, your probably not going to see the changes your after. Our faces really are a reflection of our healths, and our body systems working efficient or inefficiently. Its not uncommon for me to hear people complain about a particular area, and then discover that the area in question was always that way (just they weren’t conscious or noticed it to the same degree).

Miracles are great things to aim for, but in your case its not a miracle your needing, you just need to allow your body to return back to its optimal health and when it does, I bet your find that your face will also reflect that too.

yoga wrote:

yep you got it right sean , iam the same guy, just hiding from my friends and family online,using different id.

i am sorry i might sound harsh and bitter but its hard to perceive that i would loose tones of facial fat after just two weeks of exercise.I started of with facercise and when my face got wrecked i went in desperation in search for other programs and then i found flex effect.

Regarding muscle atrophy and revertion , i know and have read that it should come back to normal but then, certain facial muscle we use frequently , in my case , mouth(upper lip, philtrum) muscle as i speak or eat..

Does it mean that it would never revert back as there is not rest.I was moaning the other day regarding prolonged philtrum , but after cheking my old pictrues turns out to be that my phitrum was always the same , but because there was no mass on upper lip it kinda stayed under the nose but now it stands out along with the rest of lip. I dont know if it has gone back to normal as the size is the same , but still its not the same.

Let me take this oppertunity to thank you for you helpful and considerate pms.

just waiting for the miracle to happen..
take care,

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:22 am

Hermosa

This I find really interesting and would love to discuss it with you more on the FE forum if your permit me. Having worked with many cases of gauntness, its become one of my all time loves, because usually there is a reason for it showing up. I'd love to discuss this more with you if your willing.

The only thing I might add is that if you have always been thin, and then begun a facial exercise program and not changed your diet to support the muscles recuperation, I could see how this could lead perhaps to some temporary undesired results, but having said that, consuming calories when you have stopped exercising completely I'm not so sure is what I would suggest to someone who has done them for a while. Need to do some more digging here with you. I suspect that the recent snacks you have been eating too may also be needing time to work their magic. Just like supplements when a person has gone for a while without a particular food group or supplement and then starts to add it to their diets, it takes the body up to 3 months to really get used to having a regular supply and being able to use it effectively.

Just food for thought!

Hermosa wrote:

Doing facial exercise resulted in substantial gauntness and added about 20 years to my apparent age. I stopped doing Flex Effect a few months ago and have been trying to consume healthy fat (almonds, avocados, EFA oils) but it has not helped.

I have great cheek definition -- yay -- but the tradeoff is not worth it. It's not easy for me to gain weight since I try to eat a healthy diet and I work out pretty rigorously.

Facial exercise is probably not a good idea for people who are on the thin side already.

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:35 am

Hermosa,

i'm on the thin side, too..but really have not experienced gauntness from facial exercises...not sure why not...except as i posted earler on the thread i consume tons of minerals in a highly bioavailbale form (herbal decoctions, angstrom minerals, sea vegetable broths..or sea veggie extracts which are, imo, even more bioavailable)...i know we're not used to thinking about minerals for alleviating gauntness..but seems like it might be worth a try!

Also, do you ever eat chia seeds? (i know we're all dif constitionally..but that particular fat plumps up my face more than other fats do...again maybe worth a try...i use the whole seeds.. a days worth for me is 2 tbls soaked in a cup of water overnight(at least that long) then i add homemeade almond milk , spirulina and rosehip puree to mine...but if you drink dairy..some milk added is nice..it's kind of pudding-y so you can season as you'd like..also i use Salba brand chis..a bit more expensive than other chia seeds..but i know it 'works' for me.)

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:43 am

Also, Senta Maria Runge has great isometric/resistance exercises for the hollows near the sides of the face....and they are extremely easy and, imo, effective

(i think it was you, Hermosa, that spoke about the sale on her books at Abe books..i bought mine at that time for under $6..thinking it would be an historical 'relic' but realizing when i loked at her book that she really has some extremely effective 'moves'..i think they are more suited to me than fE or ageless...in that they offer strong resiance in a way that's so powerful but, imo, more respective of the integrity of the skin..and ,wow, they really work for me....although i continue to do fe and ageless too)

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:50 am

when i say her exercises are more respective of the 'skin' of the face...i really mean i feel they have an awesome respect for the natural'structure of the face as a whole'...hard to explain..(and i'm sure it's an individual thing... and not saying that i don't still love FE and Ageless in their own way)

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:57 am

I do own that book and like the size and colours of it. I one time asked her daughter if there was ever a plan to get her old shows put onto a dvd, as that would be fantastic, but her daughter never responded. I think they would be awesome and would love it if they were available on dvd.

jasminerosey wrote:

Also, Senta Maria Runge has great isometric/resistance exercises for the hollows near the sides of the face....and they are extremely easy and, imo, effective

(i think it was you, Hermosa, that spoke about the sale on her books at Abe books..i bought mine at that time for under $6..thinking it would be an historical 'relic' but realizing when i loked at her book that she really has some extremely effective 'moves'..i think they are more suited to me than fE or ageless...in that they offer strong resiance in a way that's so powerful but, imo, more respective of the integrity of the skin..and ,wow, they really work for me....although i continue to do fe and ageless too)

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:27 am

I have the pdf of the Senta Maria book but I'm thinking a hard copy may be easier to manage. If I can find another copy for $6, I'm buying it!

I'm also going to try working the risorius a bit more and see if that does anything.

Jasminerosey, I have not tried chia seeds, but will give those a go (I have been snacking on almonds for months -- not a bad * spam alert *, I guess, but doesn't put on any fat!) I found the Angstrom Minerals site and don't even know where to start, so would value your input there.

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:33 am

Do you soak the slmonds, Hermosa. i have always leatrned that it's difficult to get all the nutrients/fats from the almond if it's not soaked (or made into a butter)...but personally the soaked almond is easier on my digestive tract than the butter is....and especially if you make the soaked almonds into a 'milk'..you'd probv notice a dif in the plumpness of your face (althoug i still like chia seeds the best for this..but the combo of the hommemade almond milk and the chia seeds really does the trick for me.)

free skin care · Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:55 am

angsrom minerals are prob the most expensive of the ways i listed to get the minerals you may need....mother earth brand angstrom minerals are the most concentrated i know of..with less water per mineral content..so although they are more expensive than other brands you need to take less per dose.....perhaps you could speak to someone at the site about what to take (they do offer a'kit' w/all the minerals in 2 oz. bottles ..some you take once a day...some a couple a times a week..and the amounts you take of each varies as well as how often you take it....but the kit is $250...i usually intuit what i'm lowin and just take those minerals in addition to everything else i do for mineral absorption (there are angstrom mineral companies..w/products not as concentrated as mother earth's that do hair analysis of the minerals you may need...you couls google that info

meanwhile..you could start w/herbal decoctions/infusions..a lot less expensive ..and imo..more vital for over-all health. buy them at mountain rose herbs which are discounted 1/2 price from retail...or pacific botanicals(maybe juat a few dollars more a lb. than mountain rose..but still essentiually 'wholesale')

OATSTRAW IS A GOOD HERB TO START W/AS IT'S VERY VERY INEXPENSIVE, VERY MILD TASTING AND HIGH IN CAL/MAG..AND VERY GOOD FOR THE NERVOUS SYSTEM AS AN ADDED BONUS. (didn't mean to do 'caps' but don't want to type over!)

ANYWAY TAKE 4 CUPS WATER TO ONE CUP OAT STRW..BRING TO A VERY LIGHT BOIL AND IMMEDIATELY BRING DOWN TO A LIGHT SIMMER FOR 20 MINUTES OR SO..THAN COVER THE POT AND LET IT STEEP FOR 3-8 HOURS(whoops..caps again..i'm in such a hurry at the moment!)You can add stevia, almond milk..or dairy milk and honey if that's your preference..although lots of people like it straight!

free skin care · Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:59 am

A little off topic I know, but I was over at Susan Weed's forum, and she seems to advocate not using more than one herb at any one time. Kind of reminds me of classical homeopathy, where they too give you only one thing to take at a time, and your supposed to let that take effect. She seems to be against mixing things. Jasmine is that receipe one of your own, or from one of her books. I can't make up my mnd which to purchase, but this is so interesting to me, feel like a new worlds opened up in front of me and am very excited by it!

jasminerosey wrote:

angsrom minerals are prob the most expensive of the ways i listed to get the minerals you may need....mother earth brand angstrom minerals are the most concentrated i know of..with less water per mineral content..so although they are more expensive than other brands you need to take less per dose.....perhaps you could speak to someone at the site about what to take (they do offer a'kit' w/all the minerals in 2 oz. bottles ..some you take once a day...some a couple a times a week..and the amounts you take of each varies as well as how often you take it....but the kit is $250...i usually intuit what i'm lowin and just take those minerals in addition to everything else i do for mineral absorption (there are angstrom mineral companies..w/products not as concentrated as mother earth's that do hair analysis of the minerals you may need...you couls google that info

meanwhile..you could start w/herbal decoctions/infusions..a lot less expensive ..and imo..more vital for over-all health. buy them at mountain rose herbs which are discounted 1/2 price from retail...or pacific botanicals(maybe juat a few dollars more a lb. than mountain rose..but still essentiually 'wholesale')

OATSTRAW IS A GOOD HERB TO START W/AS IT'S VERY VERY INEXPENSIVE, VERY MILD TASTING AND HIGH IN CAL/MAG..AND VERY GOOD FOR THE NERVOUS SYSTEM AS AN ADDED BONUS. (didn't mean to do 'caps' but don't want to type over!)

ANYWAY TAKE 4 CUPS WATER TO ONE CUP OAT STRW..BRING TO A VERY LIGHT BOIL AND IMMEDIATELY BRING DOWN TO A LIGHT SIMMER FOR 20 MINUTES OR SO..THAN COVER THE POT AND LET IT STEEP FOR 3-8 HOURS(whoops..caps again..i'm in such a hurry at the moment!)You can add stevia, almond milk..or dairy milk and honey if that's your preference..although lots of people like it straight!

free skin care · Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:17 pm

LLG, just curious where you see the warning against mixing. I have gone through many of the pages but haven't scoured the site and I haven't spotted that. I did order a few of the herbs from Mountain Rose so we'll see. I'm not giving up my daily cup of coffee though, not until/unless I see utterly convincing evidence that the negatives outweigh the positives.

free skin care · Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:06 pm

Just goes to show facial exercises do work - even if not right for everyone. I think he needs to take a break for a month and if choosing to do facial exercise again, approach it more carefully, meaning not overdo.

I wonder if a facial massage such as Tanaka would help rebalance the face. This is what I would do.

free skin care · Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:15 am

It was on the forum, in quite a few places, but the place I can immediately recall was a post written by her daughter where someone was asking for recommendations for a mix and her daughter and someone doing the course of hers both mention that Susan doesn't recommend people to do mixtures of herbs, just use one.

Hermosa wrote:

LLG, where you see the warning against mixing. I have gone through many of the pages but haven't scoured the site and I haven't spotted that. I did order a few of the herbs from Mountain Rose so we'll see. I'm not giving up my daily cup of coffee though, not until/unless I see utterly convincing evidence that the negatives outweigh the positives.

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