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Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:48 am |
Great find Dark Moon! I have been a patient of Dr Douglas Grose in the past - he practices at a local clinic - and I respect his opinion unequivocally. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:52 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
Ben Johnson, MD wrote: |
There are over 150 growth factors so I will list a few here; Epidermal GF, Vascular Endothelial GF, Hepatocyte GF, Fibroblast GF 1-9, Insulin-like GF (part of HGH), Interleukins 1-13, Tumor Necrosis factor Alpha and Beta....
Basically everything your skin needs to behave like a teenager again...without the acne |
Could there be any adverse reaction from using so many growth factors in 1 product? |
Hmmm ... maybe the count should be 387 growth factors? This is from "An Open Letter from Dr. Ben Johnson" I found online:
LipoStem
This product will become a major part of the Osmosis protocol. We are using adult mesenchymal stem cells (which have been shown to produce as many as 387 growth factors), all harvested through an advanced, exclusive competitive farming process whereby the growth media contains these powerful growth factors in a highly stable 3D structure. The idea is simply that aging and other skin conditions are essentially wounds and we are looking to advance wound healing dramatically by a four-step process of protecting the skin and its barrier, feeding the skin, maximizing fibroblast activity and nourishing the dermis with critical wound healing growth factors.
http://www.osmosisskincare.co.nz/news/an-open-letter-from-dr-ben-johnson.html
JoElla has this same information on her website (although she calls the new product "Stem Factor") found here:
http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/Stem-Factor-is-Coming-Soon_p_726.html |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:36 pm |
Ben Johnson, MD wrote: |
There is no evidence that AHA's reduces aging. There is only evidence that AHA's reduce some of the signs of aging. Each one of those signs can be explained. Just one example; glycolic acid added to a wrinkle and almost immediately makes that wrinkle look better... this is not new collagen... this result is from adding inflammation to the skin which plumps the skin. Collagen takes 3-4 weeks to build.
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The study below indicates that skin thickness is increased, elastic fibers are improved and collagen density is improved with AHAs. Specifically notes "no inflamation present". The study was 6 months in duration. It won't won't turn the clock back, but I'm good with just looking younger!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8642081
BACKGROUND: alpha-Hydroxy acids (AHAs) have been reported to improve aging skin. The mechanisms of action of AHAs on epidermal and dermal compartments need clarification.
OBJECTIVE: Our purpose was to determine the effects of AHAs on photoaged human skin by clinical and microanalytic means.
METHODS: Patients applied a lotion containing 25% glycolic, lactic, or citric acid to one forearm and a placebo lotion to the opposite forearm for an average of 6 months. Thickness of forearm skin was measured throughout the study. Biopsy specimens from both forearms were processed for analysis at the end of the study.
RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident.
CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging. |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:48 pm |
Hi again,
I get the sense that this has become adversarial. I certainly don't mean it to be. I am just expressing my opinion. I have tried to get the actual research study so I can read the details. On the surface it certainly appears to argue against my position. It is a pilot study which means it may be only one or two subjects. Curious that a follow-up study was never published?
Here is my response; 1)A thickening of the epidermis implies changes to normal skin that likely resulted from chronic inflammation. No one desires a thickened epidermis, they desire a healthy, normal epidermis similar to that of our children...which is not thickened. 2) It is unclear how much of the thickening of the dermis is related to a build-up of acid polysaccharides which are non-functional. Remember that a dermis under repair can appear thickened and it is unclear if the reported extra collagen is related to byproducts of collagen that were damaged and yet to be removed by the immune system. 3) Using doses of 25% repeated daily is an unsustainable approach to the skin so this outcome relates more to a peel effect than a topical that would be used by the masses today. The damage was clearly dermal for this test which is not where experts report AHA serums work (which is actually the epidermis). Burning dermal collagen and elastin will force the skin to repair those proteins which will make them look more organized, a point I have conceded occurs with acid peels. I struggle with the claim that added collagen has occurred and wish I could get the original article to see their methods (see point 5 as to why I struggle). 4) "No inflammation was found". Obviously the follow-up biopsy was done a few (or several) days after the last application. I don't think you believe that the application of 25% acid was not inflammatory? If so, we can have that discussion later. 5) My final point is simply this; the article suggests that the skin has increased its thickness by 25%. That would be 25 years of aging reversed based on our understanding that the skin thins at 1% per year. The visual evidence is overwhelming that the repeated use of AHA's daily is not reversing aging nor has it halted aging. Even on these AHA regimens we are still aging. My belief is we are aging faster. Some of you obviously disagree. Many of you receive acid peels monthly. Are you ten years younger after ten years of acid peels? This study would suggest that you should be 10 years younger after 6 months of acid peels. I have only seen thinner skin as a result of repeated acid peels and repeated acid serum applications. I could be wrong but I am not alone in this belief, I have heard this from 100's of estheticians and physicians over the years.
So I stand by my position. I may go to the library to get this article, though. Always ask yourself why the skin is making more collagen. If it is in response to being burned by an acid then logic (and research) tells us that the skin will only make enough to heal the burned tissue. In fact, most wounds do not recover fully but rather achieve about 80% of their structural integrity.
I am enjoying the debate however! |
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Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:38 pm |
sister sweets wrote: |
I have a science background - dentistry and nutrition and a BS in chemistry and biology so hearing from a demonstrated,cutting edge professional in the skincare field is intriguing. (sorry to offend anyone but this is much better than Paula Begouin's opinion). |
Sis - given that you have a scientific background, what is your opinion on Dr. Johnson's range of Harmonised Waters:
Osmosis Pur Medical Skincare has come out with a whole line of frequency water called harmonized water. There are years of scientific studies behind the water. There are no ingredients in the water, there are no drugs involved. It is all natural. It is all based on frequencies that are in tune with your body. There are many waters, depending on your needs.
http://osmosisbeautyblog.com/2010/07/01/osmosis-skin-care-harmonized-water-to-help-you-feel-better/
Apparently, you need a different water for each individual complaint - great marketing. Personally, I find it worrying that a medical professional would recommend energised water for such serious conditions as depression, dementia and Alzheimers.
Here is what a retired chemistry professor has to say about energised water.
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/EnergizedWater.html
Here are some more clinical studies on the anti-aging benefits of Salicylic Acid:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1473-2165.2010.00506.x/full |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:46 pm |
Keliu - I don't know Dr. Johnson's products and have not checked out his harmonized water. But I will. FWIW: My opinion - Water that is being sold to target specific ailments is bunk and aimed at innocent people who are trying to find a cure and may be desperate to try things OR they have money to throw around at things that may or may not work. That said - I buy supplements that the jury is still out on but I personally think they are helping me.
All water is not equal but there is an endpoint in what it can and cannot do for a person's health. I wouldn't think of it as a specific healing mechanism (unless you're going to Lourdes or some similar place).
There is discussion on Secret gold thread about blessing one's water, etc and I wouldn't put faith in that either. Not that it isn't a pleasant thought and may create a placebo effect which is fine. I believe in a lot of unusual things and do not discount possibilities but one needs to be realistic too - it's a balance.
Back to Osmosis - I don't know the product line but it does interest me and that's why I'd like to know more about his philosophy, etc. Just like to learn. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:13 pm |
Very interesting as so many think exfoliation is beneficial to our skin.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2000_July_25/ai_63662476/
Face Facts: Debunking The AHA Myths; NeoStrata's Doctors Van Scott and Yu, Discoverers of Alpha Hydroxyacids, Address Issues of Benefits and Effects for Skin Care
MYTH: AHAs over-exfoliate the skin, leaving the skin vulnerable to environmental aggressors.
FACT: "Alpha Hydroxyacids work to normalize cell renewal," says Dr. Van Scott. He goes on to explain that AHAs do not exfoliate the skin in the conventional way that other chemical (i.e., salicylic acid) and mechanical (i.e., loofah) exfoliants affect the skin. While there is a brief period of surface exfoliation that may occur following initial use, AHAs affect the skin by normalizing cell turnover in the epidermis (the top layers of the skin), encouraging the formation of normal, healthy skin. This is a benefit that is unique to AHAs and is not found with other chemical or mechanical exfoliants which work by continuously removing the top layers of skin.
In addition, Drs. Van Scott and Yu urge consumers to use common sense to fully maximize the benefits of AHAs on their skin. For example, skin is always more susceptible to sun exposure after any type of cosmetic procedure (AHA application, laser treatment, micro-dermabrasion, etc.). As a result, a strict sun avoidance program and use of a well-formulated sunscreen are required until the skin has fully healed. It is also recommended that daytime use of AHA products be accompanied by daily SPF 15 sunscreen use.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8642081
RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident.
CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging.
PMID: 8642081 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1346-8138.2006.00003.x/abstract
Keywords:
Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA);collagen I;photo-damaged skin;procollagen I;TUNEL
ABSTRACT
Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA) agents, such as glycolic acid and lactic acid, have been used as therapeutic agents for more than a quarter of a century. Recently, they have been used as agents to rejuvenate photo-aged skin. It is believed that these AHA agents induce the epidermis to remodel and accelerate desquamation, thus exerting their therapeutic effects. In this study, we investigated the histological differences in skin treated with glycolic, lactic, citric and acetic acids once daily for 6 weeks. The melanin pigments in the basal layer were less prominent in the glycolic and lactic acid-treated skin than in the citric and acetic acid-treated skin. The melanin deposits in the horny layers were equal for all AHA. However, the melanin deposits in the squamous layers were less prominent in the glycolic and lactic acid-treated skins than in the citric and acetic acid-treated skins; this was analogous to observations of the basal layers. Collagen I and procollagen I were increased after treatment with glycolic, lactic and citric acid in the upper dermis, but were not increased with acetic acid treatment. However, the staining of the epidermis and dermis for matrix metalloproteinase-1 (MMP-1) after treatment was not significantly different among the agents. Our data suggest that longer treatment intervals with glycolic and lactic acid can cause improvements in both the epidermal and dermal components and support the usefulness of AHA for rejuvenating photo-damaged skin.
http://www.eblue.org/article/S0190-9622(96)70002-6/abstract
Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology
Volume 34, Issue 2 , Pages 187-195, February 1996
Effects of alpha-hydroxy acids on photoaged skin: a pilot clinical, histologic, and ultrastructural study [see comments]
CM Ditre, TD Griffin, GF Murphy, H Sueki, B Telegan, WC Johnson, RJ Yu, EJ Van Scott
Abstract
Abstract
BACKGROUND: alpha-Hydroxy acids (AHAs) have been reported to improve aging skin. The mechanisms of action of AHAs on epidermal and dermal compartments need clarification. OBJECTIVE: Our purpose was to determine the effects of AHAs on photoaged human skin by clinical and microanalytic means. METHODS: Patients applied a lotion containing 25% glycolic, lactic, or citric acid to one forearm and a placebo lotion to the opposite forearm for an average of 6 months. Thickness of forearm skin was measured throughout the study. Biopsy specimens from both forearms were processed for analysis at the end of the study. RESULTS: Treatment with AHAs caused an approximate 25% increase in skin thickness. The epidermis was thicker and papillary dermal changes included increased thickness, increased acid mucopolysaccharides, improved quality of elastic fibers, and increased density of collagen. No inflammation was evident. CONCLUSION: Treatment with AHAs produced significant reversal of epidermal and dermal markers of photoaging. (J Am Acad Dermatol 1996 Feb;34(2 Pt 1):187-95)
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_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:44 pm |
Here is a quote from Nanci's site:
http://www.ncnproskincare.com/
Copper Peptide plus Exfoliation works better than anything else for age reversal - guaranteed! If you're tired of spending money on products that don't work, you've come to the right place because we offer the best age reversal skin care products available without a prescription! Our products are based on cell renewal through exfoliation. Learn why exfoliation is KEY in anti-aging skin care.We're proud to offer the Dr. Loren Pickart patented age reversal skin care with Copper Peptide - the strongest Copper Peptide available! We also offer our own line of professional anti-aging skin care products including our 30% Glycolic, Lactic, Salicylic & Fruit Acid Professional Pumpkin Peel , our incredible Microfiber Facial Cloth, All Natural SPF30 in 3 skin specific formulas, All-Trans Retinol 1.0% & 2.0%, 20% Matrixyl 3000 Serum, Botox Alternative SPF30 that's loaded with anti-oxidants, age defying Mineral Makeup, the very best in home therapy skin rejuvenating tools and so much more.....
She also sells the Timpepeel Microdermabrasion machine. Doesn't look like she's anti exfoliation to me. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:06 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
I think I will get out a few tuning forks, my dermawand and pray over the water to harmonize it myself, at least it's super cheap! |
The only method I know of for harmonizing water is to add Scotch to it! |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:05 am |
This is the response to other comments made about exfoliation, Osmosis and myself. First, I am a general practitioner. I am licensed in California but do not practice. I have been formulating for 13 years, formulated Cosmedix and now Osmosis. I can appreciate that the current authorities on skincare are typically dermatologists but remember that we do not learn skincare in Dermatology residency, the expertise purported by these doctors is learned the same way I have learned it, through additional reading and study. The only difference for me is that I think I come from outside the box which has allowed me to shape my current, unique philosophy.
I could not open the other link on the effects of AHA's. I was glad to see that other, respected experts have agreed with my view that exfoliation is not good for anti-aging. I would be surprised if Obagi said that seeing as he is a big fan of Retin A but anyone can review what we know about the damaging effects of AHA and exfoliation. I found it interesting that Van Scott did not like any other form of exfoliation except that done with AHA's. This all makes sense when you realize that first and foremost exfoliation increases free radicals in the skin. These experts recognize the flaw of that component. Then it comes down to what positive effects can be found to counter-act the huge negative that we start with. I submit that these positive effects are not even positive. For example, the quoted text referencing Van Scott's research about the reduction in melanin associated with AHA's can be read from two perspectives; he was happy that the cytotoxic effects on melanocytes from AHA's reduced pigment thereby assisting with hyperpigmentation/uneven skin tone, I, on the other hand, would remind you that your melanin is the second most critical anti-aging aspect of your skin and the reduction of it takes your skin from say a natural SPF level of 5 (in Fitz Type III skin) to an SPF of 2! (not counting the reduction in natural SPF to 0 that occurred when you exfoliated your protective barrier in the process )
I think it is telling that they mention the sun sensitivity as a minor event when that is another way of saying the process is accelerating free radical damage and aging.
Anyway, I love this debate and the people involved in the forum, you are all obviously ahead of the curve in your level of knowledge!
The last thing I will say as it relates to Osmosis and our results is that if you are coming off of a harsh protocol, your skin is defensive and may take longer to respond. I absolutely expect you to see results the first month, but they may be tempered by recovering skin. Fastest results are seen with Catalyst and StemFactor added to a treatment serum.
I look forward to more debate! |
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Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:27 pm |
SkinCareJunkie wrote: |
Does Osmosis have a full ingredient list for their products? I couldn't find one on their website.
Not to be a downer or anything but that's one of my biggest pet peeves when companies have a full ingredient list. I want to know exactly what I'm putting on my face! |
I haven't seen one for the new stem cell serum so far. I join you in that pet peeve, it really gets my goat and I just will not buy unless there is full disclosure. |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:45 pm |
kmaya wrote: |
My gripe as a user is the website doesn't give prices.It appears that you have to be a licensed professional to purchase (?) I wish it were more clear. |
You can purchase Osmosis products here:
http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/Osmosis-Skin-Care_bymfg_19-1-1.html
I checked the cost of postage to Australia - $12.50, somewhat cheaper than the $100.00 that was previously being charged by Stemulation!
Re the ingredients - Lacy had already posted them a couple of pages back. However, there's no breakdown of which essential oils are being used. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:46 pm |
kmaya wrote: |
Dang Dark Moon...being sensitive to the hierarchy of medicine, I didn't take Ben's comment that way at all. I think the smiley face diminished that for me.I commend him for responding when he could have ignored us,but that's just me. |
Well the smiley face is a nice touch, however if you have ever noticed how an animal cat, dog will respond to the tone of voice? You can say the most horrid things in vulgar terms and they will purr or wag their tails as long as there is a sweet tone.
I will give Dr. Johnson credit for coming here to answer our inquiries, although (client lists that contractually he may be prevented from disclosing excluded) some questions never seem to be answered? I am no harder on him than any company selling products, yet will say having an MD really doesn't make me weak in the knees either. Sorry you thought I was being harsh, but I have dealt with many doctors between myself, four kids and caring for a very I'll father for a year and not all were worth the degrees they held. |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:42 pm |
Ben Johnson, MD wrote: |
Hello again,
I want to clarify a couple of things since you all are such great conspiracy theorists
Osmosis has over 17 patents pending on the technology I have discussed in various forums. I do not own the specific patent on Catalyst but I have related patents and all the other technology is mine.
Osmosis has several partners for whom I help formulate products. I am not allowed to discuss the specifics of those relationships.
Let me know if you have further questions |
Thank you for coming back on, I was hoping you would show up again. As far as the "conspiracy theorists' statement, if I was one of those knowledgable forum members I would take that as a compliment.
My suggestion to you Dr. Johnson is, the next time you need a product tested you should ask those "conspiracy theorists" if they would like to test the product with a questionaire to be filled out after the alloted time is up. I firmly believe you would get a review that is "over the top" good or bad. |
_________________ The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:06 pm |
I've been using StemFactor for two days now. It has a strong scent (maybe like vanilla extract or some kind of baking spray--but I don't cook so that description could be completely off base!) but that fades pretty quickly. The serum has a thin consistency and is a light, milky color. It spurts out of the bottle in a very strange and aggressive way. I can't control where it goes nor am I able to capture all of it. Once I apply it, it makes my face feel tight and dry. I'm still not clear on exactly how it does what it's supposed to do (I was ensnared by Dr. Johnson's promise that it's "Basically everything your skin needs to behave like a teenager again...without the acne"). I'll let you all know if I see any positive changes.
Dr. Johnson, you mentioned that "fastest results are seen with Catalyst and StemFactor added to a treatment serum." What is considered a treatment serum? I read that Catalyst "increases hair growth including eyelashes." Dr. Johnson, does that mean that it would also encourage the growth of facial hair? (Please don't just tell me what I want to hear. I'll be extremely upset--and quite vocal --if I notice an increase in facial hair!) Also, is it okay to layer StemFactor with retinol or glycolic acid or should it be used solo? |
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:11 pm |
Petunia wrote: |
I just want to add that my dermatologist sells Osmosis products under his own name. This is how I was initially introduced to the Osmosis Pur line. I was waiting awhile in the derm's exam room and started looking at the ingredient labels for the Osmosis serums and thought "wow-impressive". Been using the line ever since and very happy so far. I am definitely going to try out the stem stell product--but I need to read this thread a bit more closely first. |
Care to give us your age and what changes you have noticed since using the Osmosis Pur Line? |
_________________ The best way to locate your cat is to open a can of food. |
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Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:59 am |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Hey there Time2Bme
Have you totally given up all of the KH products? Would mind posting what other products you are still using along with your new Osmosis regime? |
Hi DM !!
I am LOVING my new iPhone so far. I'm a little bit of a spaz with the touch screen, but it is coming along. I've been a die-hard blackberry user, but I'm definitely a happy convert now !!
I hope this isn't too long-winded ... I only used Osmosis when I first started, then I mixed in some of my other stuff ... and then switched back and forth for a couple of days.
I'll have to explain what my skin condition was like before I started with the Osmosis because had my skin been in better shape, I wouldn't have done what I did.
When I first started with Osmosis, I hadn't ordered the Replenish (antioxidant) and my skin was not in good shape. It went from being really dull to red and irritated looking. It was redder than it ever has been. I suspect that the KH was responsible for the dull skin; I've never had that before and my skin has lost that dull/flat look since I stopped using it. As far as the redness, I don't know whether it was from KH or from the extra exfoliating I was doing to try and bring some life back to my skin (or both).
I started with the Rosacea kit and the Immerse (for very dry skin) and the Refresh PM for eyes. JoElla said that she uses the Refresh PM during the day as well. It does go on thick, but it soaks in. I find it a little too thick for daytime use. While it does soak in, it doesn't soak in fast enough to not interfere with my eyemakeup application .. so I keep it for night time use.
As an aside for the Refresh PM. It is a great product for eyelids as well. It doesn't work its way into your eyes. Unfortunately I had to stop using it on my eye lids - not because it didn't work, but because it worked too well. I ran into the same problem with the CPs I was using on my lids. I had BLEPH surgery and the doctor was a little too enthusiastic on my left eye. I had a heck of a time for a few months with my eye not shutting as tightly as it should. It made my eyes really dry and easily susceptible to infections. The skin on my eyelids is still a little tight, but (thank God) my eye closes fine now. When I started using the Refresh PM (as with the CPs earlier), my skin started tightening up on my eyelids within a few days. It started causing me problems again !! My left eye started to get really dry again because it wasn't closing as tightly as it should. Needless to say I do NOT need anything on my eyelids that will firm up my skin. For those who do, this would be a great product to try.
Osmosis recommends using an antioxidant before using the Mend or Calm. When I first started I only used the Osmosis products. I wanted to see if I was going to react to them. When I didn't have any reaction, I added in my antioxidant that I had at home (Power of 3 or the RevaleSkin Intense Serum). I used it before the Mend at night. I only use the Power or 3 or RevaleSkin in the morning. I then applied the Quench as my moisturizer.
My skin was really dry, red and flaky when I first started. I still have a couple of spots, but they are improving daily. I didn't have any problem using the other products with Osmosis.
The only issue I ran into was a few days ago and to be fair, it may have been caused more by hormones than products. I broke out on my chin. I normally get a few zits before my period starts, but not this many. I think I had been overdoing the antioxidant serums. Because my skin had been so dry, I was lathering everything on it - especially the Power of 3. I think I overdid the actives !!! If my skin felt a little tight in the morning, I didn't want to use Immerse before makeup, so I added either RevaleSkin or Power of 3 over the Quench before I started applying makeup. So basically ... I was doing a double shot of antioxidants in the morning and a single shot of it at night. I really shouldn't have been surprised that I broke out, particularly when my period was due.
I stopped using the antioxidants on my chin and used the KH VAK 3 (still love that and will continue to use it). The zits I had were small and not deep but they were there. The VAK cleared them up quickly. I also made sure that I only used Immerse at night on my cheeks and forehead (the only dry spots left). Up until my breakout, I had been mixing the Immerse with Quench and applying it all over (at night). My skin was so irritated it soaked it up, but I didn't cut back when it started to improve.
As my chin was clearing up, I used the KH Oxygen Face Cream (just on my chin). I was never able to use that all over my face because it was too drying for me. It worked well as my chin was clearing up. I applied the Osmosis Quench everywhere else.
So ... as far as the KH goes ... I have been using it on my neck and chest area - mainly to just use it up. I will keep the KH VAK 3% on hand. It is 2nd to none for zit treaments IMO If I find that I turn to it during hormone breakouts, I'll keep either the Oxygen Face Cream or the VAK 2 on hand.
I still really like the KH hand cream, but I think Jurlique's Lavender cream is better ... so I am not sure whether I'll reorder it again or just stick with Jurlique.
Sorry for the novel ... I typed this on a computer - should stick to my iPhone, probably wouldn't have been so long.
I do think that the Osmosis plays well with other products. I was more cautious adding other products with the KH. I was always afraid of making them too strong with the oxygen component. My skin has always done better with natural lines. The Osmosis is one of those lines that feel as good to my skin as drinking cold water when you're hot and sweaty !! |
_________________ 46yrs, very dry skin that can be sensitive with Redness (not Rosacea). Purple Emu, NCN skincare, Emu Oil and La Mer Cream have made a tremendous difference. |
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Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:17 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Time2Bme,
I am not quoting you I do want to thank you for your very detailed and informative response ! I am more and more tempted to give the products that address my skins needs a try, as soon as finances rebound from recent spending! |
You are very welcome !!! |
_________________ 46yrs, very dry skin that can be sensitive with Redness (not Rosacea). Purple Emu, NCN skincare, Emu Oil and La Mer Cream have made a tremendous difference. |
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