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Crow's feet – when is it normal?

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CindiLou
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:21 am      Reply with quote
I think it varies greatly between individuals. I, unfortunately, inherited my dad's skin & crow's feet. I'm 39 & have been getting Botox just for my crow's feet for 18 months. My mum is 65 & has no crow's feet & has amazing skin for her age (except for her neck). She's never had surgery,fillers,Botox or even used any skincare products on a regular basis. She doesn't do anything special for her skin & used to worship the sun in her younger years & yet she has always looked much younger than she really is. I am lucky at least that i don't have much in the way of forehead or frown lines or NL lines, so i'm grateful for that. Smile
SeanySeanUK
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:34 am      Reply with quote
Just to say I've trained lots of 40 and 50 year olds (or years young depending on your perspective) and they've actually managed to rid themselves of crows feet with both exercises, massage and good skincare. In fact, one of my client used to call her Crows Feet “Where Eagles Dare Tread” because she felt they were so deep.

Trouble when crows feet appear is that often they are the end result of damage to the tissue, and so when a person stoops smiling if the tissue is damaged it doesn’t snap back.

Sometimes I’ve often wondered if the reason why they are so visible is because the facial fat that hides them when we are children begins to diminish, and so the layer of fat that once covered them is lesser than it once was so the area is more exposed – but I doubt this is the same for all the cases.

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lucyluc
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:12 am      Reply with quote
I have rarely seen anyone over 50 without crows feet.The only exceptions have been asians and that may be because they have more fat in their face than other races....
DarkMoon
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:20 am      Reply with quote
lucyluc wrote:
I have rarely seen anyone over 50 without crows feet.The only exceptions have been asians and that may be because they have more fat in their face than other races....


Where I live we have a huge Vietnamese population and most are exceedingly thin, yet look much younger than their ages and don't wrinkle much at all before around 70 generally. I know I consider them to be Asian?

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leeleedeedee
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:32 am      Reply with quote
Well my mom is 86 yrs. old, not Asian, and hardly has a wrinkle on her face. Everyone is amazed at her age. She does nothing to her skin, washes with soap and water (yikes!) never wore sunscreen and never had botox or fillers. Has to be genetics. But my point is this....and I so agree with Dark Moon here....that you can't generalize about these things and say everyone over 40 or 50 has crows feet because it just isn't so. There are many factors that come into play here, genetics being a strong one. Some people age early and some hardly at all.
Vor
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:18 am      Reply with quote
People usually get deep a few deep and stronger lines when they smile.
But what I don't like about my crow's feet, is that along with the deep wrinkles I have like a million small folds. From a distance I sometimes see no crow's feet, but when I do, I see the deeper folds. If I come closer to the mirror, I see the tiny ones situated very tightly :/.
DarkMoon
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:39 am      Reply with quote
Vor wrote:
People usually get deep a few deep and stronger lines when they smile.
But what I don't like about my crow's feet, is that along with the deep wrinkles I have like a million small folds. From a distance I sometimes see no crow's feet, but when I do, I see the deeper folds. If I come closer to the mirror, I see the tiny ones situated very tightly :/.


First off Vor you have a beautiful face, really lovely!
What is your skin care routine, and are you making sure you are hydrated enough? Just a thought. Very Happy

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Vor
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Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:46 pm      Reply with quote
I use jojoba, castor and avocado oil and drink plenty of water. Nothing seems to help.
lucyluc
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Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:07 pm      Reply with quote
trust me botox works. I am 56 and when I use it I dont really have any crows feet even when I smile. Botox is amazing! i wished I had enough money to do my forehead,I dont so I wear bangs.I only use it on my crows feet ,makes a HUGE difference.,very noticeable when you smile.If you try it once you will never want to stop using it its is such an amazing wrinklebuster.
TheresaMary
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:05 am      Reply with quote
All botox does is paralyse the muscle, so whilst it might appear it WORKS - in reality it is only stopping the face from moving - which I'm not sure is a good thing.

Plus I found the article below which I think is worth reading if anyone considers botox.

http://www.webmd.com/skin-beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions

Someone said to me that botox doesn't stop the face from aging, simply expressing and making expressions. So it might be a good thing that you don't hav esufficient money to do your forehead Lucy!
lucyluc wrote:
trust me botox works. I am 56 and when I use it I dont really have any crows feet even when I smile. Botox is amazing! i wished I had enough money to do my forehead,I dont so I wear bangs.I only use it on my crows feet ,makes a HUGE difference.,very noticeable when you smile.If you try it once you will never want to stop using it its is such an amazing wrinklebuster.
Time2Bme
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:42 am      Reply with quote
I have never done botox myself. I have seen some with it done and their face looks great. BUT ... I've seen other's who have had it overdone and their face looks funny. I don't like when people have their face botoxed to the point that they are expressionless. I'd rather see wrinkles.

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havana8
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:46 am      Reply with quote
SeanySeanUK wrote:
Just to say I've trained lots of 40 and 50 year olds (or years young depending on your perspective) and they've actually managed to rid themselves of crows feet with both exercises, massage and good skincare. In fact, one of my client used to call her Crows Feet “Where Eagles Dare Tread” because she felt they were so deep.


Sean, how long, in general, does it take for the crows feet to go with all the above? Also, is it possible to favorably improve or even remove undereye lines with the same approach? TIA!
lucyluc
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:02 pm      Reply with quote
if you have the right technique you will not look overdone;you will look 15 yrs younger maybe. Everyone notices bad plastic surgery, fewer people notice good surgery because you just look natural and refreshed,not pulled, frozen or bloated like a lot of movie stars. Its been said that botox will keep you from getting wrinkles because you do not make creases in your face that will stay. Its like a pair of leather shoes, after you have walked in them they tend to get a lot of creases. People who have had a stroke and were paralyzed on one side of the face;tend to have much less wrinkles than the other side of the face that was not paralyzed.
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:40 pm      Reply with quote
lucyluc wrote:
if you have the right technique you will not look overdone;you will look 15 yrs younger maybe. Everyone notices bad plastic surgery, fewer people notice good surgery because you just look natural and refreshed,not pulled, frozen or bloated like a lot of movie stars. Its been said that botox will keep you from getting wrinkles because you do not make creases in your face that will stay. Its like a pair of leather shoes, after you have walked in them they tend to get a lot of creases. People who have had a stroke and were paralyzed on one side of the face;tend to have much less wrinkles than the other side of the face that was not paralyzed.



A) Many especially in this economy can't afford Botox and the upkeep.

B) Know the risks.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/DrugSafetyInformationforHeathcareProfessionals/ucm143819.htm

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Kassy_A
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:03 pm      Reply with quote
Jeeeez! What's wrong with a couple of little lines here and there anyway?

Aren't they after all, the *marks* of a life well lived, with lots of smiles, from a lifetime of happy memories...?

I dunno, maybe that's just the way I choose to look at it... Very Happy

Anyhoo, I'll take the smiles over the tears anyday. Better than being a line free sour puss IMHO... Laughing

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Time2Bme
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Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:48 pm      Reply with quote
ITA Kassy !!! Not that I won't try to prevent the wrinkles from coming, but I still like a face to look like a face. Laughing

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CindiLou
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Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:08 am      Reply with quote
lucyluc wrote:
trust me botox works. I am 56 and when I use it I dont really have any crows feet even when I smile. Botox is amazing! i wished I had enough money to do my forehead,I dont so I wear bangs.I only use it on my crows feet ,makes a HUGE difference.,very noticeable when you smile.If you try it once you will never want to stop using it its is such an amazing wrinklebuster.


I agree 100%. I don't have too bad forehead lines plus i wear bangs, so it's just Botox for crow's feet.
If i smile without Botox i look 70+. With Botox i look my age, 39, which i'm happy with.
lucyluc
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Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:10 am      Reply with quote
its especially effective on crows feet. AND people wont notice you have had it in that area.When you botox your forehead and you have an egghead smooth forehead that kinda screams "BOTOX!"The price has come down considerably. There is one dr in my area that does it for 165 (used to be 140). He gives away the botox in hopes of selling you other things like restylane.I dont think thats a lot of money if it lasts 3 to 6 mos. considering all the money women spend on skin care and a lot of those creams do nothing compared to botox.
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Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:37 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
Plus I found the article below which I think is worth reading if anyone considers botox.

http://www.webmd.com/skin-beauty/news/20100623/botox-may-affect-ability-feel-emotions


This araticle has been discussed on the Forum before, in fact, I think there's a thread on it.

Personally I find the assumption that having Botox stops you from feeling emotions completely ridiculous and insulting. I lost both of my parents this year and I can assure you my Botoxed forehead did nothing to assuage the awful grief I felt.

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Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:44 am      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:

B) Know the risks.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/DrugSafetyInformationforHeathcareProfessionals/ucm143819.htm


The above was related to the use of Botox for the treatment of children and adults for Cerabral Palsy (where muh larger doses are administered). In regard to cosmetic use it stated:

However, no definitive serious adverse event reports of distant spread of toxin effect associated with dermatologic use of Botox at the labeled dose of 20 Units (for glabellar lines) or 100 Units (for severe primary axillary hyperhidrosis) have been identified.

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DarkMoon
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Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:26 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:

B) Know the risks.

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/DrugSafetyInformationforHeathcareProfessionals/ucm143819.htm


The above was related to the use of Botox for the treatment of children and adults for Cerabral Palsy (where muh larger doses are administered). In regard to cosmetic use it stated:

However, no definitive serious adverse
event reports of distant spread of toxin effect
associated with dermatologic use of Botox at the labeled dose of 20 Units (for glabellar lines) or 100 Units (for severe primary axillary hyperhidrosis) have been identified.


How about know the expertice of your injector? I am not against Botox, I haven't had any! I see it's approved for Strabismus, my youngest had surgery for that 17 years ago yet I would hesitate to use it on kids 5 and under!

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Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:58 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
I see it's approved for Strabismus, my youngest had surgery for that 17 years ago yet I would hesitate to use it on kids 5 and under!


I'm not familiar with that condition - however, Botox has been used for over 20 years for the treatment of children with Cerebral Palsy. Obviously, you would have to be guided by your doctor - but any injections in this regard would be given by someone trained in this field, not by a cosmetic clinician.

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Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:07 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
I see it's approved for Strabismus, my youngest had surgery for that 17 years ago yet I would hesitate to use it on kids 5 and under!


I'm not familiar with that condition - however, Botox has been used for over 20 years for the treatment of children with Cerebral Palsy. Obviously, you would have to be guided by your doctor - but any injections in this regard would be given by someone trained in this field, not by a cosmetic clinician.


Basically the eyes are pulled either in, out, up or down a common condition in young kids. The muscle in whatever direction the eyes are pulled are too strong. If left untreated the brain cuts off comunication with the weakest eye and vision in that eye is lost.
What I don't know is how Botox would be a permanent fix, but it's not something I investigated as my youngest will soon be 22. Very Happy

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DarkMoon
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Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:39 pm      Reply with quote
Well live and learn, I googled my daughters surgeon who is fantastic in every way and he is using it for the condition!

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/wilmer/employees/cvs/Repka.html
Shock

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Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:15 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
Well live and learn, I googled my daughters surgeon who is fantastic in every way and he is using it for the condition!

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/wilmer/employees/cvs/Repka.html
Shock


Apparently Botox has been used for over 40 years for the treatment of Strabismus:

It may surprise you to know that botulinum toxin, or Botox® as we commonly now call it, has a history stretching back almost two hundred years. In 1822, a German doctor named Justinius Kerner, suggested that botulinum toxin injections might be used in the treatment of excessive sweating or hyperhidrosis. Botox® is now regularly used for this condition.

By the late 1960s, Botox® had begun to be used in American clinics for the treatment of squints (strabismus).

http://www.consultingroom.com/Treatment_FAQs/Display.asp?Treatment_Faqs_ID=5&Botulinum-Toxin

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