Kassy's AALS pre treatment?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:33 am

I received the LightStim from QVC (hoping it is as good as ordering from AALS directly).
From what I've gathered, a pre-treatment should help. I've read about "Kassy's", but couldn't find how to make or where to buy!

And if there are any other pre-made serums/treatments you recommend, I'd be so grateful. I saw HSN sells one since they have now jumped on the light therapy bandwagon.

Thank you so much! I'm so hoping to see results around eyes and lighten a couple sunspots. Is that too much to hope for? Ha.

free skin care · Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:42 am

Oh Duh!! I'm sorry, I found the lovely Kassy's post - didn't realize it was same as the firming & eye cream recipe!
I think this is over my non-diy head! You should see me in kitchen with food. LOL! But this does sound like alot more fun.
If there are any pre-made options..... or do I need to ask on other forum? I just don't see myself ordering all the ingredients and getting it right. Thanks again & sorry to be a bother!

free skin care · Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:43 am

Not sure if this is the one you are looking for but it's in the recipe index in the DIY section.

Kassy_A wrote:

I'll be darned, but I just don't know where the he!! it's posted...Not a problem though, because I made up a new batch a few days ago, and I'm liking this (bit different recipe) better... This is perfect for not only LED treatments, but for 'spritzing' throughout the day as well. (We need all the help we can get fending off the free radicals produced by UV exposure, and this 'spritz' will do that.) In fact I'm liking it so much that I have switched my vitamin C use to beddy-bye time, so I can enjoy this during the day.

8oz PRE LED/POST SUN EXPOSURE GREEN/WHITE TEA SPRITZ

-7 1/2 oz distilled water
-2 MSM caplule contents (Opti-MSM recommended)
-2 ml/cc white tea extract ( http://www.vitacost.com/Twinlab-TeaZen-be-u-TEA-licious-organic-White-Tea-extract-Green-Coffee-Berry-Peach ) A full dropper is 1 ml/cc. See ingredients below
-3 ml/cc green tea extract
-2 ml/cc hydrolyzed wheat protein ( http://www.personalformulator.com/wvss/product_info.php?products_id=994 )This is not the same as wheat protein oil!
-2 ml/cc sodium PCA (great humectant!)
-2 ml/cc licorice root extract (nice for those with hyperpigmentation!)
-2 ml/cc algae extract (nice subtle skin tightener along with skin benefits!)
-1.7 ml/cc optiphen (preservative) This will assure potency and stability of actives for several weeks
-***optional***For those who use CP Serum, it's a wonderful addition to this especially if your using it pre LED treatment. Rather than incorporating it into the 8oz spritz, just put your few drops of CP's in the palm of your hand, and add a squirt or two of spritz to it, then apply. (Supposedly copper peptides increase collagen synthesis by 60%, and there is now a couple of studies that prove a synergy when used in conjunction with LED treatments.)

All ingredients are water soluble, so just add everything into an ounce or so of the distilled water, stir well, put in 8oz spritz bottle, and fill to the top with distilled water. I keep mine in fridge for added stability, and well, it just feels nice to have a cool spritz throughout the day.

I've read some info here and there that both white and green tea, when applied after sun exposure, can neutralize the free radicals generated by UV exposure... (Thus my decision to use this throughout the day, and leave my C serum regimes for nighty-night.)

For pre LED use, just spritz liberally on clean exfoliated skin, massage in, and do your treatment when your skin is dry to the touch.

The finished spritz looks much like tea, feels nice + absorbs quickly. You can follow it up with moisturizer (if needed) and makeup... Just don't use this at the same time as vitamin C serum.

White Tea Extract Ingredients;

(99% polyphenols, 60% EGCG), Vegetable glycerin, deionized water, honey, natural peach flavor, magnasweet (licorice root), citrus extract, luo han guo (glycoside/often used as sugar substitute, made from fruit).

free skin care · Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:59 am

LOL I was about to post this one for you! Bad Grin

Kassy_A wrote:

Cross posting from the Anti-Aging LightStim thread for all you LED users;

PRE-TREATMENT SERUM FOR LED USE

3oz distilled water
1 TBS AHA cream (I use Alpha Hydroxy Souffle, but I guess any would do)
1 TBS SKB (Sea Kelp Bioferment)
1/2 tsp HA (Hyaluronic Acid)
1/4 tsp Green Tea Extract (optional but nice)

Gently warm the water in the microwave for 5 or 6 seconds and set aside.

Mix the HA + Green Tea into the SKB, add that mixture to the AHA cream, then very gradually add the water, while stirring constntly.

For those of you who use and are well conditioned to copper peptides, it would be a good addition to this serum in a very small quantity..(like drops, not spoonfuls.. )

So that's it Kiddie's... Have fun, and may the *light* be with you!

free skin care · Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:03 pm

Amyalex wrote:

Oh Duh!! I'm sorry, I found the lovely Kassy's post - didn't realize it was same as the firming & eye cream recipe!
I think this is over my non-diy head! You should see me in kitchen with food. LOL! But this does sound like alot more fun.
If there are any pre-made options..... or do I need to ask on other forum? I just don't see myself ordering all the ingredients and getting it right. Thanks again & sorry to be a bother!

There are serums for sale, I think you can order the new one directly from the light stim site. Also NCN carries one if I am not mistaken. I am sure others will chime in with other options. Smile

free skin care · Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:54 pm

It's hysterical to see my name on a thread title.. Laughing

DM, thanks for digging up the recipe's... Very Happy

I'm trying to hunt down some retail products that would be complimentary to our LED treatments. (I totally understand that there are many reasons, folks would prefer that to DIY.)

So if I were buying a product to use with the LED, I would look for a serum consistency, with the 1st ingredient being H20, and I'd keep away from anything with occlusive ingredients **mineral oil, most silicones, (supposedly cyclomethicone only remains on the skin until the actives penetrate, and then it dissipates), petrolatum, shea butter and anything that contained oil through the 1st 2/3rds of the ingredient list** (If an essential oil is listed in the last 5 ingredients, it's probably just a few drops, and shouldn't matter. If you can avoid oil all the better, but if you find an exceptional product you can work around the oil, by allowing your product to penetrate up to an hour, then wiping with a damp cloth before your LED treatment.)

The other important things to look for (IMHO), are ingredients that are known to nourish and beautify the skin, help with collagen synthesis and go after free radicals. Probably the best of the bunch, in no particular order are the following vitamins and actives:

- Vitamins A, B3(niacinamide), C(ester for LED use could be best if you don't want to wait 30 minutes to treat) + E
- Co Q 10
- Pumpkin Seed Extract (when this is used at 5% it increases ATP, but you'd never get this unless you DIY!)
- Alpha Lipoic Acid
- Green Tea
- White Tea
- Algae Extract
- Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein
- Matrixyl 3000
- Hyaluronic Acid
- MSM
- Sea Kelp

There are lots more great actives/antioxidants, but these I can personally vouch for at this point in time.

So now to a few retail products.

LightStim Serum: $70. 1oz (10% discount for EDS members through LS

Ingredients: Purified Water, Cyclomethicone, Sodium Hyaluronate, Glycerine (and) Butylene Glycol (and) Water (and) Carbomer (and) Polysorbate-20 (and) Palmitoyl Oligopeptide (and) Palmitoyl-Tetrapeptide-7, Saccharide Isomerate, Water (and) Pseudoalteromonas Ferment Extract (and) Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein (and) Hydrolyzed Soy Protein (and) Tripeptide-10 Citrulline (and) Tripeptide-1 (and) Lecithin (and) Xanthan Gum (and) Carbomer (and) Triethanolamine (and) Butylene Glycol (and) Caprylyl Glycol, Oleth-10, *** Ergothioneine, Phenoxyethanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin, Potassium Sorbate, Carbomer, Tromethamine.

It's a nice light serum, with only a very faint, fresh smell, it goes on smoothly and penetrates within 30 seconds. I've used it for more than a month, but do not notice any visual improvements overall. (I *kind of* notice what looks like a softening in an undereye line that was fairly deep.) It has some very nice actives in it, but some are housed in some chemicals that I'd prefer not to use. I realize they are in minute proportions, but I'm quite anal about my ingredients.

Should I continue to purchase this product, I would definitely be tweaking it with an increase of the best it has to offer, and the addition of some other complimentary actives. I cannot justify this price, unless I can turn 1oz into 2oz. (That's just me though, because I know how cheaply good products can be made at home... Laughing

)

Eminence Eight Greens Youth Serum $38.00 1oz (EDS store!)

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/eminence-eight-greens-you-p_6858.htm

Ingredients: Yucca Extract: supplies phytoestrogens, regenerates, antioxidant
• Flaxseed/Linseed Extract: Omega 3s, heals and protects, antioxidant
• Hop Extract: calming, regenerating, antioxidant
• Paprika: assists in increasing stimulation and oxygenation of the skin
• Vitex Agnus Castus: nourishing, anti-aging, antioxidant
• Biocomplex™: an antioxidant booster of Vitamins A, Ester-C, E, Coenzyme Q10, Alpha Lipoic Acid

This is all that is disclosed, so I have no way of knowing what the 'base' is, or how it is preseved.. Confused

To me it looks rather nice though, and I think it would compliment LED treatments. It's also not breaking the bank, and is even cheaper when applying our member discount. (Nice tweaking possibilities as well!)

Juice Beauty Soothing Serum $36. 2oz (EDS store!)

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/juice-beauty-soothing-ser-p_7975.htm

Ingredients: organic juices of vitis vinifera (white grape) juice, rubus idaeus (red raspberry) juice & aloe barbadensis leaf juice, glycerin, organic cucumis sativus (cucumber) extract, organic botanical extracts of glycyrrhiza glabra (licorice) root, arctostaphylos uva ursi (bearberry) leaf, rubus idaeus (red raspberry) leaf, calendula officinalis flower & matricaria chamomilla flower, organic algae extract, vitis vinifera (grape) seed oil, organic essential fatty acids of oenothera biennis (evening primrose), linum usitatissimum (linseed) seed & borago officinali (borage) seed, organic sesamum indicum (sesame) seed oil, tocopherol & tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), panthenol (vitamin B5), magnesium ascorbyl phosphate (vitamin C), phospholipids, retinyl palmitate (vitamin A), hesperidin methyl chalcone (vitamin P), potassium sorbate, hyaluronic acid, sclerotium gum, phenoxyethanol, benzyl alcohol, disodium EDTA, sodium hydroxide, limonene, linalool, lavandula angustifolia, tanacetum annuum (blue chamomile) & anthemis nobilis (roman chamomile) pure essential oils.

Now with this one, because there are oils in the middle of the list, as well as retinyl palmitate (which is heat sensitive), it would be best to apply on your clean, exfoliated face, wait 30 minutes, wipe anything that remains with a damp cloth, and then do an LED treatment. These ingredients look especially nice for those who also want a 'calming' affect along with their nourishing. (I'm a huge JB fan, love the stuff!) (Check out the other serums also.)

There are tons more options available at all price points. The best way to find what you like is to google a few of your top choice actives together.. (For example, put this in your "google" box, and watch all the products that come up:) coq10+alphalipoicacid+skincare

You can then compare ingredient lists, to see what suits your individual needs best. It's fun and very informative.. Very Happy

I'll keep my eye out for other products, and be happy to post whatever I find..

IN FACT!!!!! Maybe you wouldn't mind having your thread name changed to something broarder.. (Perhaps; LED Treatment Serums, What's Working For You?) That way all members would share some great things that we may never hear about otherwise.

I could talk about this subject all day and night... Idea

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:36 pm

It doesn't look like too many people are interested in the LED serum topic, but I came across another affordable serum that looks like it would be good, especially for those who are treating hyper-pigmentation. Have a look:

http://www.vitacost.com/CSI-Skin-Brightening-Serum-Plant-Based-Formula/?bnPageBox=cp_popularproducts&vbnpid=42231

INGREDIENTS:

Seaweed extract, hyaluronic acid, purified water saxifraga sarmentosa extract, vitis vinifera (grape) fruit extract, morus bombycis root extract, scutellaria baicalensis root extract, malva sylvestris (mallow) extract, menta piperita (peppermint) extract, primula veris (primula) extract, alchemilla vulgaris (lady’s mantle) extract, veronica officinalis (speedwell herb) extract, melissa officinalis (balm mint) extract, achililea millefolium (yarrow) extract, phenoxyethanol and ethylhexylglycerin.

This serum looks excellent too;

http://www.vitacost.com/CSI-Multipeptide-Anti-Wrinkle-Serum/?bnPageBox=pp_frequentlyboughttogether

INGREDIENTS:

Chondrus crispus (seaweed) extract, purified water(aqua), hyaluronic acid, acetyl hexapeptide-8, pentapeptide-18, dipeptide diaminobutyroyl benzylamide, diacetate, acetyl glutamyl heptapeptide-1, palmitoyl oligopeptide, palmitoyl tetrapeptide-7, phenoxyethanol and ethylhexylglycerin.

Ironically, I just now got an email notification for 10% off (I think everything) with the following code;

through 12/31/10 DDEALS

Also free shipping on orders over $99. USD with the following code;

through 12/31/10 WB12XH

Anyhoo, just thought I'd share my thoughts for those interested.. Smile

**My fingers are crossed that Havana changes this thread name** ... I really think this subject would benefit a great many LED users (DIYer's or otherwise!)**.. Pray

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:41 pm

I think there is a good bit of discussion about serums on the AALS thread, but it's mostly about the QVC (Steve's serum) and the HSN one?

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:07 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

I think there is a good bit of discussion about serums on the AALS thread, but it's mostly about the QVC (Steve's serum) and the HSN one?

I just sent 'Swissmom' to this thread to have a look at more affordable options.

I can only speak for myself, and although I like the LS serum, I could never justify that expense on a regular basis. (It would have to be a miracle in a bottle for me to commit to that.) It's nice for those who have no qualms about the expense though.

My favorite pass time these days, is to find decent affordable serums, and then tweak the he!! out of them... Laughing

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:58 pm

What about NCN's Pre_LED Green tea Serum?

Ingredients: Ingredients: 5% Organic Japanese Green Tea Extract (Camellia Sinensis 3%, Epigallocatechin Gallate (EGCG) 2%). Other ingredients: De-Ionised Spring Water, Acrilate C-10/30 Cross Polymer, Triethanolomines, Cyclopentasiloxane, Aloe Vera Leaf Juice, Phenoxyethanol and Caprylyl Glycol (Optiphen®).

Directions: Apply a thin layer on clean skin 15-20 minutes prior to your LED treatment.

Does a Pre-LED treatment not have to include Green Tea??

From NCN's site:

Green Tea Serum

German scientists have discovered that applying Green Tea prior to an LED treatment works 10 times faster than using LEDs alone .

So I assume green tea must be in the list and no oils and chemicals? Otherwise ok?

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:15 pm

RussianSunshine wrote:

What about NCN's Pre_LED Green tea Serum?

Ingredients: Ingredients: 5% Organic Japanese Green Tea Extract (Camellia Sinensis 3%, Epigallocatechin Gallate (EGCG) 2%). Other ingredients: De-Ionised Spring Water, Acrilate C-10/30 Cross Polymer, Triethanolomines, Cyclopentasiloxane, Aloe Vera Leaf Juice, Phenoxyethanol and Caprylyl Glycol (Optiphen®).

Directions: Apply a thin layer on clean skin 15-20 minutes prior to your LED treatment.

Does a Pre-LED treatment not have to include Green Tea??

From NCN's site:

Green Tea Serum

German scientists have discovered that applying Green Tea prior to an LED treatment works 10 times faster than using LEDs alone .

So I assume green tea must be in the list and no oils and chemicals? Otherwise ok?

The problem I have with this product is the 'polymers' it contains, because they are occlusive. (There is a more in depth discussion back somewhere in the AALS thread and Nanci weighed in there as well.)

I still stand by what I said back then, and respectfully disagree with Nanci.

As I've mentioned in many LED serum discussions throughout the forum, I believe the way to get around having the best of both worlds, is to apply your (questionable) serum, allow it to absorb up to about an hour, and then just wipe away any remnants of the occlusive ingredients that might remain, just before using the LED.

Anyhow, I am the one who has had some of the most amazing results, so I must be doing something right... Laughing

Now here is what I consider to be a real gem in Nanci's arsenal, and for those who want to make a comparable serum to the one some are loving from LS, this will give you a great DIY start! In fact I'd go so far as to say, you would wind up with a superb LED treatment serum. (Keep in mind that Nanci's Matrixyl serum is 20%, so 1/2 the bottle added in to some other goodies will give you double your money's worth, for DIY'ers.) 10% is what I have seen recommended in my researching.

http://www.ncnproskincare.com/20-matrixyl-3000-serum.html Very Happy

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:39 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

The problem I have with this product is the 'polymers' it contains, because they are occlusive.

I have just bought another bottle of Nanci's Green Teas serum Confused

Ok, I will do as you recommend and wipe away any remnants before the LED treatment, not after as I used to do. You are right, I feel like I have to wash this serum off.

Thanks, Kassy_A, for your insights! I will check out all the serums you have recommended!!

I also have amazing results with my DPL, but I have not found any serum that can make my DPL work "10 times faster than using LEDs alone".

free skin care · Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:56 pm

RussianSunshine wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

The problem I have with this product is the 'polymers' it contains, because they are occlusive.

I have just bought another bottle of Nanci's Green Teas serum Confused

Ok, I will do as you recommend and wipe away any remnants before the LED treatment, not after as I used to do. You are right, I feel like I have to wash this serum off.

Thanks, Kassy_A, for your insights! I will check out all the serums you have recommended!!

I also have amazing results with my DPL, but I have not found any serum that can make my DPL work "10 times faster than using LEDs alone".

There's an easy way to check any serum or cream you use to see if occlusive agents (like polymers or silicones) have remained on the skin.

Apply said serum or cream, massage in till it feels absorbed and then wait an hour.... Now wet your hands with warm water, and rub around your face. It it feels smooth, slippery or slimy, it is indeed the occlusive material that has NOT penetrated. That's the job of silicones, polymers + petrolatums though, (to form a seal on the skin to keep the goodies in.) It's just not a good thing for LED treatments, where you don't want any possibility of something that could possibly interfere with the light penetrating.

I think it's always a good idea for everybody to read all that is available from many members, and then do some research and testing of theories on our own. I am far from perfect on most beauty topics, but I'm glad to share the few things that I do know a thing (or 10) about.

Don't discount Nanci's GTS because it's a nice product. Just try wiping your face before your treatment, and see if that brings a nicer result for you. I'm thinking it will.. Wink

Also, in case it helps anyone, I find that a variety of topicals used, yield the best results. Try not to be religious about any one thing. Not only will you get bored, but your skin won't be challenged/fed enough..

I don't have anything scientific to prove that thought, but I'm honestly continuing to see proof positive in the mirror. I honest to God haven't changed/aged in years. To me that's miracle enough.. Laughing

free skin care · Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:05 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

RussianSunshine wrote:

What about NCN's Pre_LED Green tea Serum?

Ingredients: Ingredients: 5% Organic Japanese Green Tea Extract (Camellia Sinensis 3%, Epigallocatechin Gallate (EGCG) 2%). Other ingredients: De-Ionised Spring Water, Acrilate C-10/30 Cross Polymer, Triethanolomines, Cyclopentasiloxane, Aloe Vera Leaf Juice, Phenoxyethanol and Caprylyl Glycol (Optiphen®).

Directions: Apply a thin layer on clean skin 15-20 minutes prior to your LED treatment.

Does a Pre-LED treatment not have to include Green Tea??

From NCN's site:

Green Tea Serum

German scientists have discovered that applying Green Tea prior to an LED treatment works 10 times faster than using LEDs alone .

So I assume green tea must be in the list and no oils and chemicals? Otherwise ok?

The problem I have with this product is the 'polymers' it contains, because they are occlusive. (There is a more in depth discussion back somewhere in the AALS thread and Nanci weighed in there as well.)

I still stand by what I said back then, and respectfully disagree with Nanci.

I don't understand why you think polymers are occlusive to light. They may be occlusive to water, but that doesn't mean visible light is unable to get through them. If something is transparent then light will pass through it; in fact the definition of transparency is "the physical property of allowing light to pass through a material."

A simple example to distinguish "occlusive to light" from "occlusive to water" would be a clear glass tumbler. The light rays will easily pass through it, but water will not ... which is why some liquids are packaged in clear glass jars. Similarly, a clear plastic umbrella will protect you from the rain, but not from the sun. Only opaque objects are impenetrable by light (by definition). I don't see why oil would be occlusive to light either, although they may be somewhat "waterproof".

free skin care · Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:22 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Now here is what I consider to be a real gem in Nanci's arsenal, and for those who want to make a comparable serum to the one some are loving from LS, this will give you a great DIY start! In fact I'd go so far as to say, you would wind up with a superb LED treatment serum. (Keep in mind that Nanci's Matrixyl serum is 20%, so 1/2 the bottle added in to some other goodies will give you double your money's worth, for DIY'ers.) 10% is what I have seen recommended in my researching.

http://www.ncnproskincare.com/20-matrixyl-3000-serum.html Very Happy

Thanks so much for the advice Kassy. I am searching for a serum to use before my LED to enchance the treatment! I like the sound of this, but being a complete novice at DIY! what would I add to the Matrixyl?? I am scared of mixing things up too much as I don't want one ingredient to cancel out another!! I'm hopeless at this stuff! I appreciate your time and effort, thanks. Smile

free skin care · Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:33 pm

Kassy_A, can Juice Beauty Antioxidant Serum be used as a Pre-LED treatment?

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/juice-beauty-antioxidant-p_4770.htm

free skin care · Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:19 am

Lacy53 wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

The problem I have with this product is the 'polymers' it contains, because they are occlusive. (There is a more in depth discussion back somewhere in the AALS thread and Nanci weighed in there as well.)

I still stand by what I said back then, and respectfully disagree with Nanci.

I don't understand why you think polymers are occlusive to light. They may be occlusive to water, but that doesn't mean visible light is unable to get through them. If something is transparent then light will pass through it; in fact the definition of transparency is "the physical property of allowing light to pass through a material."

Lacy53,

I am in total agreement with you.
Also, I'm not convinced that one need have anything on the skin at the time of use of the LightStim that stimulates collagen and elastin synthesis as long as one consistently and regularly uses product with these ingredients. I do think that the use of an antioxidant may be beneficial.

Since one can not tell what may block the infrared without determining the absorbance spectra of the chemical I will be using my LightStim on a clean are face.

free skin care · Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:08 pm

JonnyNJ wrote:

Since one can not tell what may block the infrared without determining the absorbance spectra of the chemical I will be using my LightStim on a clean are face.

JonnyNJ, but Kassy_A is suggesting to wash the serum/cream off before the LED treatment. So you let it absorb for 1 hour and then wipe it off. What can possibly block the light?

free skin care · Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:41 pm

For what it's worth: Lacy has a history of trying to dispel Kassy's recs. Kassy has always said she writes what she knows based on her own research. We all should do what we think is best.

free skin care · Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:56 pm

RussianSunshine wrote:

Kassy_A, can Juice Beauty Antioxidant Serum be used as a Pre-LED treatment?

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/juice-beauty-antioxidant-p_4770.htm

HI RussianSunshine- I use this for a half hour before, wipe face with a wet washcloth, dry and use LED.

free skin care · Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:03 pm

sister sweets wrote:

For what it's worth: Lacy has a history of trying to dispel Kassy's recs. Kassy has always said she writes what she knows based on her own research. We all should do what we think is best.

Yes Kassy has kindly shared her opinion, but you may wish to read the research posted by Lacy on the AALS thread.

Lacy53 wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

I appreciate you sharing that, and I also agree to wait until it has absorbed.

I just prefer to go one step further, and remove any remnants that could still be on the skin (if I believe something occlusive is in my serum du jour.)

LED treatments are too much of an ongoing time commitment for me, to have a lingering thought that I could be wasting it. (I'm not a gambler Laughing

)

I will stay out of further discussion on the "occlusive" topic now, as I've already stated all of my reasons so frequently, and ad nauseum.. Wink

ETA: I found this amongst the notes I saved when I was researching LED serums + ingredients.

Specifically, the topical composition is capable of transmitting at least 80%, preferably at least 85%, and more preferably at least 90%, of the EM emitted by the LEDs to the skin. In other words, the topical composition absorbs, reflects, scatters, or blocks little or no EM emitted by the LEDs, thereby minimizing any potential interference thereof with the LEDs.

The quote noted above comes from System And Method For Reducing The Appearance Of Fine Lines And Wrinkles And Improving the Skin Tone, US Patent Application 20100145255.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2010/0145255.html

Interestingly, the patent suggests that an LED pretreatment product should preferably be:

in the form of an oil-in-water emulsion, with a suggested amount of water ranging from about 40% to about 60%. Suitable oils include materials also known as skin conditioning agents such as nonvolatile silicones, esters, paraffinic hydrocarbons, vegetable oils, and synthetic oils.

So it doesn't appear that the scientists/chemists at Estee Lauder think oils or silicones are occlusive to LED light.

free skin care · Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:19 pm

Also Keliu's addition, no offense at all to Kassy but I can't agree on this one! Smile

Keliu wrote:

There's a wealth of information on suitable topicals in the study Lacy posted. It goes on to say:

Quote:

The topical composition of the present invention may further contain one or more additional skin care ingredients for further improving the efficacy of the skin rejuvenating agents and the EM emitted by LED in reducing the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles and improving the skin tone. Such additional ingredients may include, but are not limited to: oils, surfactants, humectants, botanical extracts, vitamins, antioxidants, sunscreen agents, preservatives, and the like. The topical composition may be in the form of an emulsion, gel, suspension, aqueous solution, or in the anhydrous form. If present in the form of an emulsion, the composition may be in the form of a water-in-oil or oil-in-water emulsion. Preferably, the topical composition of the present invention is in the form of an oil-in-water emulsion, with a suggested amount of water ranging from about 10% to about 90%, more preferably from about 20% to about 70%, and most preferably from about 40% to about 60%. If the topical composition is present in the anhydrous form, it may also contain one or more oils, and if so, suggested ranges are from about 1 to 95% by weight of the total composition.

Suitable oils include materials also known as skin conditioning agents such as nonvolatile silicones, esters, paraffinic hydrocarbons, vegetable oils, and synthetic oils. The term “nonvolatile” as used herein means that the compound has a vapor pressure of less than about 2 mm of mercury at 20° C. Preferably, the skin conditioning agent is characterized by a viscosity from about 5 to 10 centistokes at 25° C. up to about 1,000,000 centipoise at 25° C. Particularly preferred are the nonvolatile silicones, including but not limited to: amine functional silicones such as amodimethicone, phenyl substituted silicones such as bisphenylhexamethicone, trimethylsiloxyphenyl dimethicone, phenyl trimethicone, polyphenylmethylsiloxane, dimethicone, phenyl dimethicone, diphenyl dimethicone, and dimethicone substituted with C 2-30 alkyl groups such as cetyl dimethicone. Suitable esters include mono-, di-, or triesters. Monoesters are in the general form RCO—R′ wherein R and R′ are each independently a C 1-45 straight or branched chain, saturated or unsaturated alkyl. Diesters may be formed by the reaction of a C 1-45 aliphatic or aromatic mono- or dihydric alcohol with a C 1-45 aliphatic or aromatic mono- or dicarboxylic acid, as appropriate, where the aliphatic group may be straight or branched chain, or saturated or unsaturated. Suitable triesters include the reaction products of a C 1-45 aliphatic or aromatic alcohol having at least three hydroxyl groups with a C 1-45 carboxylic acid, or C 1-45 aliphatic or aromatic alcohols with a C 1-45 tricarboxylic acid, with the aliphatic chains being linear or branched, saturated or unsaturated. Examples include esters of caprylic and capric acids and glycerin such as caprylic/capric triglycerides; esters of glycerin or polyglycerin and stearic acid such as glyceryl stearate, diglyceryl diisostearate; esters of malic acid and isostearyl alcohol such as diisostearyl malate; coco caprylate caprate and the like.

Humectants which may be used in the topical composition of the invention and include glycols, sugars, and the like. Suitable glycols are in monomeric or polymeric form and include polyethylene and polypropylene glycols such as PEG 4-200, which are polyethylene glycols having from 4 to 200 repeating ethylene oxide units; as well as C 1-6 alkylene glycols such as propylene glycol, butylene glycol, pentylene glycol, and the like. Suitable sugars, some of which are also polyhydric alcohols, are also suitable humectants. Examples of such sugars include glucose, fructose, honey, hydrogenated honey, inositol, maltose, mannitol, maltitol, sorbitol, sucrose, xylitol, xylose, and so on. Preferably, the humectants used in the composition of the invention are C 1-6 , preferably C 2-4 alkylene glycols, most particularly butylene glycol. If present, such humectants may range from about 0.001% to about 25%, preferably from about 0.005% to about 20%, more preferably from about 0.1% to about 15%, by total weight of the topical composition.

free skin care · Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:43 am

DarkMoon wrote:

So it doesn't appear that the scientists/chemists at Estee Lauder think oils or silicones are occlusive to LED light.

Lacy (Or Jonny?), do we happen to know if this product is sold by EL?

free skin care · Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:35 am

rileygirl wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

So it doesn't appear that the scientists/chemists at Estee Lauder think oils or silicones are occlusive to LED light.

Lacy (Or Jonny?), do we happen to know if this product is sold by EL?

I was going to read the actual patent last night but the sight was acting up and went into that "brief maintenance mode" a few times so I gave up and went to sleep! Laughing

I have to assume they have a hand in something to do with an LED to have a patent!

free skin care · Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:23 am

rileygirl wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

So it doesn't appear that the scientists/chemists at Estee Lauder think oils or silicones are occlusive to LED light.

Lacy (Or Jonny?), do we happen to know if this product is sold by EL?

First of all, I should say that I THINK the inventors of this patent (Popescu, Hawkins, Lombardi and Wolf) work for Estee Lauder since the Correspondence Address is listed as The Estee Lauder Cos. Inc.

To conduct their study of the 2 example serums, the inventors used the Tanda Regenerate (660nm red) LED device. Tanda does offer for sale 2 different Pretreatment Topical Gels for use with their system; Tända Regenerate Pre-Treatment Gelfor use with their red light and Tända Clear Pre-Treatment Gel for use with their blue light. The description for these gels is:

Tända Pre-Treatment Gels
Specially formulated to optimize the delivery of light to the skin:

-Free of light-reflecting properties which may interfere with light delivery
-High degree of transparency allowing for maximum light penetration
-Specific viscosity reduces reflection and refraction of light to the skin

All Tända topicals are botanically-based, hypoallergenic and non-comedogenic.

While that does sound very much like the wording in the patent application, I can't say for sure that these pretreatment serums are related to the patent application. Tanda doesn't seem to list the ingredients on their website either.

http://www.tandaskincare.com/pre-treatment-topicals

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.