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DIY Structured/Energized Waters
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aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:20 pm      Reply with quote
So how then how do you account for many of us getting filler affects from using Ageless Secret? Honestly the info posted was like Sis said from a site promoting different filration systems. Besides which, we are not talking about drinking ASD we are talking about using it on the skin.

Not sure about your exact credentials or anything CM, but how would you account for this type of reaction? We who are seeing these results, are not on the payroll. The results we are are experiencing are very real. As I've posted before, there is no doubt that my skin is more resilient. Prior to using this product, my skin was thinner and I'd get lines after falling asleep on my side. Now the lines aren't as deep and the skin appears fuller and springs back immediately after spraying and a quick wave of the hair dryer. I'm on my sixth month of use. I am not making this stuff up. I am however, on the dry side at this point in my life and so I have decided to add NCN's new serum to compliment the ASD. What are your thoughts on this? Smile ~ Aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:52 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
Honestly the info posted was like Sis said from a site promoting different filration systems.


Along the same line of thought, the info on the AS/ ASD/ ASG site can't be reliable too since they are also selling their own products isn't it?

I am very happy for you that you've had results. But that's anecdotal evidence, which is different from the scientific evidence that others are asking about. Smile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:15 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
So how then how do you account for many of us getting filler affects from using Ageless Secret? Honestly the info posted was like Sis said from a site promoting different filration systems. Besides which, we are not talking about drinking ASD we are talking about using it on the skin.

Not sure about your exact credentials or anything CM, but how would you account for this type of reaction? We who are seeing these results, are not on the payroll. The results we are are experiencing are very real. As I've posted before, there is no doubt that my skin is more resilient. Prior to using this product, my skin was thinner and I'd get lines after falling asleep on my side. Now the lines aren't as deep and the skin appears fuller and springs back immediately after spraying and a quick wave of the hair dryer. I'm on my sixth month of use. I am not making this stuff up. I am however, on the dry side at this point in my life and so I have decided to add NCN's new serum to compliment the ASD. What are your thoughts on this? Smile ~ Aprile


My best guess is that the Ageless Secret product is increasing the hydration levels in your skin and also the collagen content. My experience with aloe is that its mucilaginous properties help trap water into the skin. If you then combine that with the heat lamps that everyone is using, that would open your pores. With your pores open, the water would seep in, and then be trapped there by the aloe. (With the heat of OCM, I get a similar pore-opening and plumping effect.) I've read studies showing that moisture uptake by the skin usually extends up to 15-25 minutes after application of a moisturizer. If the water in the moisturizer evaporates too quickly, then you get less of a skin hydrating and plumping effect....if the aloe traps the water, as perhaps in ASG, then you should get more of a hydrating effect than perhaps other products. Then combine that with the MSM and the recommendation to use the product a couple to a few times throughout the day, and you really could simply be seeing an increase in hydration. Certainly, for me, when I'm dehydrated, my skin deflates a bit and my lower face looks less full. Furthermore, aloe has been scientifically proven to increase the collagen content of the skin. The claims for MSM are similar, but there isn't much reputable skin on it yet. And there is also niacin in the product. So I suspect it's that combination of effects. That's my best guess as to what is going on.

Reversing the question a bit, do you have any photos of others, perhaps on the Ageless website, where you think the plumping effect is so great that it couldn't be simply be due to increased hydration and promotion of collagen growth by aloe + MSM? As far as I could see, the results I saw on the Ageless website all looked subtle (tangible but subtle), but no where close to the results of actual fillers. What was more evident to me was an improvement in complexion in some of the after photos.

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aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:24 pm      Reply with quote
CM ~ I have seen impressive photos privately where the results do look like fillers. No one would ever post them on this forum as they would be torn apart. Sadly, the whole discussion got so far out of whack because everyone is concentrating on the science and picking it apart, hence this new thread. Honestly, all I care about is the results. The results I mentioned are from using the product once in the morning and once at night. I am down to probably ten sprays a day. I use more if I do a treatment with the lamp or lightstim. But, I don't do them every day by any means. I maybe average 3 times a week now. The facial fullness and increased resiliency has definitely amped up now that I've been using the product for 6 months. All I can say is I'm a happy camper. ~ Aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:51 pm      Reply with quote
The reason why everyone has been concentrating on the science is because the product is marketed as "The greatest scientific breakthrough ever" and as an "energetic cosmetic" that contains Dark Energy. These are statements made by the manufacturer. If you make these types of statements, then you should expect to have them challenged by the scientific community.

As for the results - there have only been three people who have consistently raved about the results. In addition, those three people are now seeing similar results from the NCN DNA Serum.

I would draw everyone's attention to this review of this serum on the NCN website:

Quote:
Hi Nanci, I've been using DNA test serum over two weeks faithfully twice per day. I've come to rely on it as a secret weapon. I do other "stuff" - some form or another most everyday. For me it may be dermarolling or LED lights, facial exercise or facial brushing, and have for a few years. The DNA formula has become the icing on the cake. It may be that it makes the results of the other stuff better or that it is just an outstanding product on its own. I'm not sure at this point but I am one happy girl. I am seeing obvious "youthenizing" of the entire eye area. I can't even say one area is more obvious than another; just that the entire eye looks younger. How can you beat that? The texture is a dream. I tend to be oily and it sinks in and goes to work. For all you oily girls I have had no problems with this product. FYI: I am using this over the Collagen-Elestan Lifting Serum I bought previously in the AM. What I am most amazed at is the immediate effect - and am thrilled at the long term possibilities. I am honored to have tested this and highly recommend.


The text that I have highlighted is verbatim of what was said about ASG - is this a coincidence - I think not.

CM - just would like to point out that the product does not contain Niacin - this is used as a catalyst in the manufacturing process only and, according to the manufacturer, is not present in the finished product.

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cm5597
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:23 pm      Reply with quote
Aprile, I wouldn't challenge your or anyone else's results in that way, as I don't like that sort of thing either. I'm glad you have found something that you are happy with---that's the end goal after all. Smile And honestly, I think the ingredients of aloe and so forth are great and there is scientific-backing for the benefits of aloe on the skin.

Now if Jim could just take back of some of the scientifically incorrect statements (i.e., the dark energy and expansion of water), then I think it put myself and some others at peace....it just bothers me from an ethical perspective, preying on people who don't know enough about science to know that these particular claims are wrong.


Keliu wrote:
CM - just would like to point out that the product does not contain Niacin - this is used as a catalyst in the manufacturing process only and, according to the manufacturer, is not present in the finished product.


Yes, I know Jim says that. He says it was used as a catalyst. However, the testimonial from the Dr. on his website says that he likes the product because there's niacin in it...if that's wrong, why didn't Jim edit it out or correct the doctor? Also, you'll notice that neither of the two doctors support Jim's crazy theories on dark energy and the expansion of water...they remain mum on the subject...So it really just is Jim who is making those claims with no one who is a professional scientist to back him up. Like I said before, harnessing or concentrating dark energy in a bottle would be an automatic Nobel Prize!

I think I need to take a break from this thread, as the misrepresentations of science honestly really upset me. Moreover, all the back and forth just puts me in a negative frame of mind. I need some positive thinking now Smile

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aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:35 pm      Reply with quote
I haven't used the NCN product long enough to see results Keliu, so count me out of that statement. I couldn't say yay or nay about it just yet. As for others seeing those kind of results, perhaps it works synergistically with the Ageless Secret. Sometimes one performs one function and when used in conjunction with another product, the results are potentiated perhaps that is why the statement is similar. All I can say is that I know nothing about dark energy and really don't care. I was getting so worried about my skin and could not, would not go in another direction (i.e., fillers, Botox or the like). As I've mentioned before, facial exercise does a great job at keeping the underpinnings of the face toned, lifts the skin and adds some volume, however it doesn't address the texture, resiliency or fullness of the skin quite like this. This product does all that for me and dark energy or not...I would not be without it. I know what my skin was like prior to using it and sadly, it was getting pretty scary. lol! ~~ Aprile
aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:53 pm      Reply with quote
CM~ Actually I haven't been to the site in a while so don't quote me. But, I thought there was someone who was an expert in the field who gave Jim an analysis of the product and HE was the one who stated it contained dark energy. Anyway, I definitely don't want to get into a deep discussion and debate over it. I don't care about the claims or if some believe while others do not .... I am very happy with the product, but I have now given it six months, the results are even better now than they were at the start..definitely cumulative. So in my book, its a Nobel prize winning product. Lol! ~ Best, Aprile
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Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:05 pm      Reply with quote
cm5597 wrote:
Keliu wrote:
CM - just would like to point out that the product does not contain Niacin - this is used as a catalyst in the manufacturing process only and, according to the manufacturer, is not present in the finished product.


Yes, I know Jim says that. He says it was used as a catalyst. However, the testimonial from the Dr. on his website says that he likes the product because there's niacin in it...if that's wrong, why didn't Jim edit it out or correct the doctor? Also, you'll notice that neither of the two doctors support Jim's crazy theories on dark energy and the expansion of water...they remain mum on the subject...So it really just is Jim who is making those claims with no one who is a professional scientist to back him up. Like I said before, harnessing or concentrating dark energy in a bottle would be an automatic Nobel Prize!

I think I need to take a break from this thread, as the misrepresentations of science honestly really upset me. Moreover, all the back and forth just puts me in a negative frame of mind. I need some positive thinking now Smile


I have purchased the product and the ingredients listed on the bottle do not include Niacinamide.

Like you, the misrepresentation of the scientific aspect of this product has really irritated me - and I have to admit that I have let it get to me far too much. But over the years I have really enjoyed participating in this Forum. What sets it apart from others is the knowledgeable members and the great advice and interesting discussions. To see this Forum used to promote a product which makes such outlandish scientific claims has disturbed me greatly. I don't like to see gullible customers urged to sign up for a monthly supply and outlay of $160.00 for a product which is essentially water.

Of course, if people are happy to do this and are happy with the results, then so be it. There are plenty of people who are happy just using Vaseline on their skin - each to their own. But I do think that people are entitled to hear the full story and not just to be taken in by the raves. There were plenty of other members who tried the product and saw no results at all - which the before and after photos on the ASG website seem to reflect.

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Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:43 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
cm5597 wrote:
Keliu wrote:
CM - just would like to point out that the product does not contain Niacin - this is used as a catalyst in the manufacturing process only and, according to the manufacturer, is not present in the finished product.


Yes, I know Jim says that. He says it was used as a catalyst. However, the testimonial from the Dr. on his website says that he likes the product because there's niacin in it...if that's wrong, why didn't Jim edit it out or correct the doctor? Also, you'll notice that neither of the two doctors support Jim's crazy theories on dark energy and the expansion of water...they remain mum on the subject...So it really just is Jim who is making those claims with no one who is a professional scientist to back him up. Like I said before, harnessing or concentrating dark energy in a bottle would be an automatic Nobel Prize!

I think I need to take a break from this thread, as the misrepresentations of science honestly really upset me. Moreover, all the back and forth just puts me in a negative frame of mind. I need some positive thinking now Smile


I have purchased the product and the ingredients listed on the bottle do not include Niacinamide.

Like you, the misrepresentation of the scientific aspect of this product has really irritated me - and I have to admit that I have let it get to me far too much. But over the years I have really enjoyed participating in this Forum. What sets it apart from others is the knowledgeable members and the great advice and interesting discussions. To see this Forum used to promote a product which makes such outlandish scientific claims has disturbed me greatly. I don't like to see gullible customers urged to sign up for a monthly supply and outlay of $160.00 for a product which is essentially water.

Of course, if people are happy to do this and are happy with the results, then so be it. There are plenty of people who are happy just using Vaseline on their skin - each to their own. But I do think that people are entitled to hear the full story and not just to be taken in by the raves. There were plenty of other members who tried the product and saw no results at all - which the before and after photos on the ASG website seem to reflect.


FYI: The word niacin is clearly listed on the label, right after trace minerals.
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Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:54 pm      Reply with quote
dianek wrote:
FYI: The word niacin is clearly listed on the label, right after trace minerals.


Whether they've changed the labelling, I don't know. But the website still quite clearly states:

Quote:
Ingredients: You benefit because The Ageless Secret Gold formula is made using only ingredients that are healthy for the body. The ingredients in this completely non-toxic product are: Purified water, MSM, Aloe and Trace Minerals, catalyzed with Niacin, Ho Shou Wu, Helichrysum and Cayenne Pepper. All the ingredients have been purified many times during our multi-step unique process so tiny amounts safely improve performance without objectionable odors, unpleasant textures, or side effects.
http://www.agelesssecret.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=167


Note the words "catalyzed with" - this means that the Niacin, Ho Shou Wu, Helichrysum and Cayenne Pepper are NOT present in the formula, but are used in the making of the formula. A catalyst is something that is used in the process but is not present in the finished product.

The leaflet that comes with the product states:

Quote:
The Ageless Secret is made with the best ingredients people take to fight aging....Water, MSM, Aloe and Trace Minerals.

Then in a one of a kind process we use the energy of: Niacin, Cayenne Pepper, Helichrysum and Ho Shou Wu.

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Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:17 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
dianek wrote:
FYI: The word niacin is clearly listed on the label, right after trace minerals.


Whether they've changed the labelling, I don't know. But the website still quite clearly states:

Quote:
Ingredients: You benefit because The Ageless Secret Gold formula is made using only ingredients that are healthy for the body. The ingredients in this completely non-toxic product are: Purified water, MSM, Aloe and Trace Minerals, catalyzed with Niacin, Ho Shou Wu, Helichrysum and Cayenne Pepper. All the ingredients have been purified many times during our multi-step unique process so tiny amounts safely improve performance without objectionable odors, unpleasant textures, or side effects.
http://www.agelesssecret.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74&Itemid=167


Note the words "catalyzed with" - this means that the Niacin, Ho Shou Wu, Helichrysum and Cayenne Pepper are NOT present in the formula, but are used in the making of the formula. A catalyst is something that is used in the process but is not present in the finished product.

The leaflet that comes with the product states:

Quote:
The Ageless Secret is made with the best ingredients people take to fight aging....Water, MSM, Aloe and Trace Minerals.

Then in a one of a kind process we use the energy of: Niacin, Cayenne Pepper, Helichrysum and Ho Shou Wu.


Right but you don't believe it contains energy so you wouldn't believe it's catalyzed either. But as they say...the proof is in the pudding for those of us who know and see it working. ~Aprile Smile
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Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:09 pm      Reply with quote
What I believe is really irrelevant. What is known as fact is not. The product is promoted as the "Greatest scientific breakthrough ever" - a scientific breakthrough that is yet to be proven.

As for the ingredients. There is a reason that the original thread is called "Ageless Secret Gold. Energized! 3 Ingredients. Wow!" That's because it contains three ingredients. This is what the OP states:

Quote:
anyway it has no lab processed ingedients ..and contains only structured water, msm and trace minerals..but the 'secret is in the 'energizing/potenizing process...which utlizesimmotelle eo, cayene and niacin (although there is no 'physical' presence of these energizing substances in the finished product).


At least the OP read the information on the website. You yourself have stated that the product contains Ho Shou Wu - it doesn't. Neither does it contain Niacin, Cayenne Pepper or Helichrysum.

If you are happy to believe that spraying Water on your face which contains minuscule amounts of Aloe and MSM can make you look ten years younger (as some posters have claimed) then that's your choice.

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Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:57 pm      Reply with quote
Hermosa wrote:
There's a locally famous coffee place called Philz where the baristas prepare each "cup of love" individually. The process includes pouring the coffee from a great height, a primitive way of aerating the drink. I always thought they did it for dramatic reasons, but maybe it's for the taste. (The coffee is outstanding.)


Interesting,
I was about to/or am adding that if you want cheap "vortex" water you could always buy a wine aerator.
Those have been around many years and are supposed to improve the taste of your wine that has been sitting around too long...or something like that.
I'm not a "wine expert".

But you can get decent price wine aerators online. I think VacuVin is the brand the local wine shop sells here.

I actually tried a face cream that is made in Korea and made with structured water.
It is called Amarte serum
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Aqua+Veil_15996.htm

I only tried it because it was part of Beautyfix a while ago.
the first ingredient is: Hexagonal Water,

-it did feel nice on the skin and smell like fresh cucumber.
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Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:16 pm      Reply with quote
moving this related post here:


Keliu wrote:
Some relevant information. Note, he is not discussing the ASG Diamond serum but another product. The principles are the same though.

Quote:
Sceptical Towards Pseudoscience � Diamond Water Quackery

It's about time to debunk this company's unfounded and misleading claims.

Don�t you just hate it when some guy comes to you and say: �Hey, we�ve got this new product that can enhance your bio-field and energy vibrations! It has been proven by Japanese/US scientists and passes the Federal standards!� Don�t you? Yet, while sceptics will simply laugh off these pseudoscientific products, many people are unfortunately scammed. This time, I will deal with the great energised water scams so prevalent across the globe, and here�s the leader in Malaysia/Hong Kong � Diamond Energy Water. Let�s look at Diamond's claims.

Smaller Water Clusters for Better Absorption by Cells?!
So after 30 years of research from Japanese scientists (one must wonder where did the funding come from, and how no one knew of it beforehand), they developed the Energy Conversion technology that breaks water clusters into smaller clusters for easier absorption by body cells, which in turn improves our body�s metabolism and absorption of nutrients and allows for more dissolved oxygen. Sounds quite familiar, eh? Time to debunk the pseudoscience.

What Water Clusters Really Mean
In true chemistry, water clusters are defined as a hydrogen-bonded cluster of molecules of water. Let me explain what�s a hydrogen bond.

Hydrogen Bonds
A hydrogen bond is a type of electrostatic interaction between electronegative atoms (fluorine, nitrogen, or oxygen) within a molecule and hydrogen atoms bound to another electronegative molecule. The bond can occur between molecules (intermolecular), or they can occur within the same molecule (intramolecular). Hydrogen bonds are only about 1/10 as strong as normal covalent bonds.

A water molecule can be bonded to 4 other molecules at one time. This is because its 2 hydrogen atoms can be bonded to 2 other oxygen atoms, while its oxygen atom can accept up to 2 hydrogen bonds. As a water molecule can bond with the most number of other water molecules at the same time when compared to similar chemicals, it has a relatively high boiling point, melting point and viscosity.


Here's what I mean: A water molecule with its hydrogen atoms bonded to 2 other oxygen molecules and its oxygen molecule being bonded by 2 other hydrogen molecules.

Waters Clusters Don't Work the Way Diamond Water Implies
Let�s assume that the Energy Conversion technology actually works, and it�s perfectly capable of breaking waters clusters down to the smallest possible cluster (that�s a water dimer, which consists of 2 hydrogen-bonded water molecules). But for the technology to really work, the water cluster�s structure must remain unchanged from the moment it passes through the filter to the time it�s absorbed by our cells. That�ll take minutes, at the very least.

So here�s the fact: that isn�t possible. According to the Oxford Dictionary of Science (that should be a reliable source), water

�� imposes a high degree of structure and current models supported by X-ray scattering studies have short-range ordered regions, which are constantly disintegrating and reforming.�

And, according to these peer-reviewed scientific reports in the �Read More� section below, the lifespan of hydrogen bonds are counted on the scale of picoseconds, or 10-9 seconds. You read that correctly, those who are interested in buying energised water of any sort. The structure of the water clusters would�ve changed innumerable times before you can even flinch.

But that�s not the end to Diamond�s claims. They say that they have a far-infrared technology that stabilizes energy within the water to allow the structure to be maintained for a longer period. This claim is without scientific evidence, and it�s not sure what they actually mean by �stabilizing energy�. But even assuming that water clusters can actually be stabilized, can it still maintain its structure during the move from the 4th filter to the 5th filter? Since we�re talking about change within picoseconds here, it�s a no.

Conclusion
I�ve made it pretty clear that Diamond�s so-called energy water are full of pseudoscientific bunk. Moreover, Diamond�s act of making false claims about their products is simply unethical, and isn�t justified by the law. Yet, the public is still misinformed on their claims, and it�s still the most famous water filtering company in Malaysia (and perhaps Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan). So if you have any Malaysian friends, inform them of this!

PS: Because of time constraints, I decided not to write on cell hydration in this post, but I�ll address it later. Smile


http://warforscience.blogspot.com/2010/02/sceptical-towards-pseudoscience-diamond.html
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Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:27 pm      Reply with quote
Please read:

http://ag.arizona.edu/waterquality/Presentations/DW_Scams/DrinkingWaterScams-HotlineTraining.pdf

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Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:13 am      Reply with quote
How to Build Your Own Alkaline Water Ionizer


Dr. Don Colbert, author of The Seven Pillars of Health," says our bodies thrive in an alkaline environment. According to Dr. Colbert, most Americans have an acidic body environment due to drinking acidic water, eating acidic foods and being under a lot of stress. Drinking alkaline water can help bring your tissue back to an alkaline state. Alkaline water, however, is not always readily available or easily accessible. Building your own alkaline water ionizer is a way to ensure that you always have alkaline water on hand.

Cont. here

http://www.ehow.com/how_6797015_build-own-alkaline-water-ionizer.html
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Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 am      Reply with quote
Acid/Alkaline Theory of Disease Is Nonsense
Gabe Mirkin, M.D.

http://skinactives.websitetoolbox.com/post/Quackery-everywhere-5569655
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Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:13 am      Reply with quote
Hi This is Jim. Many have asked for information about the science behind Ageless Secret. It took me many years of experimentation, which led to the my inventing devices to work with the energy component of matter. That is why it is so difficult to duplicate.

Regarding dark energy, I want to share this with you.

What is Dark Energy? Does The Ageless Secret Contain Dark Energy?

A good place to start to answer these questions is the NASA web site:
(I'm sorry, I tried to list the web site, but being new, it is not allowed.)

Here is a quote from that site: One explanation for dark energy is that it is a property of space. Albert Einstein was the first person to realize that empty space is not nothing. Space has amazing properties, many of which are just beginning to be understood. The first property that Einstein discovered is that it is possible for more space to come into existence. Then one version of Einstein's gravity theory, the version that contains a cosmological constant, makes a second prediction: "empty space" can possess its own energy. Because this energy is a property of space itself, it would not be diluted as space expands. As more space comes into existence, more of this energy-of-space would appear. As a result, this form of energy would cause the Universe to expand faster and faster. Unfortunately, no one understands why the cosmological constant should even be there, much less why it would have exactly the right value to cause the observed acceleration of the Universe.

Here is my explanation. Not much is understood about dark energy. According to astrophysicists, dark energy only affects the space in between galaxies and is pushing the galaxies apart from one another. This seems to imply that dark energy is not in the matter within the galaxies but somehow is only present around them. How can that be? Maybe it is more like this. Einstein predicted empty space can possess its own energy, but once matter forms it is transparent to this expansion of space and energy and it moves through matter with no effect on matter. This would be much like radio or TV waves passing through us, without us noticing it. If we dont have a way to pick-up or amplify the signals, as far as we are concerned, they are not there. So if that is the case, then dark energy may be here, and we could detect it, if there were a way to capture some of it. How would we know? We cant measure it. We could tell by looking at its effect on matter. If matter exposed to the captured energy showed it behaved differently than anything else we have seen before, that might be a clue. One example would be the non-thermal expansion of water. Another example would be changing the properties of water in ways that have never been done before, such as, creating a measurable change in the appearance of the water exposed to the energy. These unusual, never seen before events are routinely seen with The Ageless Secret. Does that mean it contains dark energy? One thing is for certain, there is some new kind of energy that is in Ageless Secret that is doing this. What label we do put on it? Is it dark energy or something else? We know it is not chi, ki, or prana, because those are spiritual energies associated with living systems. This energy, like dark energy, exists outside of living things. There is one thing missing. If dark energy is flowing through matter every second with no effect, then why would it change and develop the ability to change the properties of water when it is captured? One possibility is that when it is captured, it becomes more concentrated and in the concentrated form has enough power for us to see its effects on matter, much like an antenna can pull in radio signals so they can be amplified or concentrated. Then the signal is strong enough to cause changes in the electrical circuitry matter in the device.

But how can this be? This appears to be a violation of the laws of physics. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Nothing happens unless heat moves from one place to another. According to Einstein, the idea that dark energy is really an expansion of space, and this new space can possess energy, means energy is being created all the time. So how do we keep our laws of physics and everything we now know about the universe intact? In my opinion, Dr. William A. Tiller, PhD has the only answer that works. Our laws of physics work fine for this dimension that we can see. However, there is another dimension, which we cannot see, and dark energy and other unseen energies, which he calls Subtle Energies, such as chi, are coming from that other dimension. According to Dr. Tiller, when those energies from the other dimension couple with energies in this dimension we see these exceptions to our established laws of physics.

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Lotusesther
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Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:37 am      Reply with quote
The subjects of dark energy and the energizing of water have been discussed extensively in the original Ageless Secret topic. Scientists have found your claims to be bogus.

Energized waters have their place in the realms of magic and religion. Dark energy is something astronomers are researching, as a possible expanation for the expansion of the universe.

Your product in itself has a lovely simple formula and, as I have said before, would be very well explained through the language of homeopathy. Especially the use of capsicum is intriguing and innovative. In another topic I posted a link to research re. capsicum and fibroblasts and it may have an effect that can increase the production of collagen.

But don't insult the intelligence of this forum with this bogus science.
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Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:03 pm      Reply with quote
A part of what I posted on the now locked ASG thread:


You in your lab discovered how to harness Dark Energy in 2004 yet 1.6/2 billion being spent by NASA to investigate both dark energy and dark matter? Skeptical you bet, Congratulations to you for bottling what hasn't been totally understood by all these world class scientists. Why not contact NASA and save the taxpayers a minor fortune!

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2011/01/news-flash-nasa-delays-space-based-search-for-dark-energy.html

An ambitious $1.6 billion spacecraft, known as Wfirst, for Wide-Field Infrared Survey Telescope, that would investigate the mysterious force that is apparently accelerating the expansion of the universe and search out planets around other stars, might have to be postponed for a decade, NASA reported today because of cost overruns and mismanagement on a separate project, the James Webb Space Telescope that will search out the first stars and galaxies to have formed in the universe, but is not designed to search for dark energy.

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2011/04/newsalert-nasa-search-for-parallel-universes-dark-matter-poised-to-launch-tomorrow.html

A futuristic experiment sounding like something out of a scifi novel, that will hunt for antimatter galaxies and signs of dark matter, was nearly cancelled but is finally poised to voyage into orbit aboard the next-to-last space shuttle mission.

The $2 billion Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer, a more than 15,000-pound (6,900-kilogram) device searching for cosmic- rays -- high-energy charged particles from outer space -- will ride up to the International Space Station on the shuttle Endeavour this Friday April 29.

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Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:53 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you for reply, Lotusether. Lets begin with homeopathy. When I first encountered it I was violently skeptical. My initial reaction was this is insulting. This is nuts. If Im ailing and you give me more of something that is making me feel ill, it will make me better. Like cures like, which is what homeopathy means. Then it is supposed to work better if it is dilute. The more dilute the better it will work. In fact, if the homeopathic remedy is so dilute that not one molecule of the substance is there it will be very powerful. Also, I found that the practitioners spent a lot of time asking the person questions to determine which remedy would work. This meant to me that it was all in their patients head. The whole thing was due to a placebo effect and talking with the patient made them feel good and enhanced their expectations. But then I learned it worked for animals. That calmed me down and made me want to know more. I did much research into homeopathy trying to learn how it worked. After gaining a better understanding I became a major supporter. It also caused me to broaden my thinking about the Universe. I asked myself, why did this happen? The answer came to that it was to show me and others there is more to the Universe than what we can see. Homeopathy works with energy. What is this energy? Where does it come from?
I did much experimentation. I found that it seems the homeopathic energy is masked from us by the physical world. The more we remove of the physical the more it becomes evident.

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Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:03 pm      Reply with quote
Very Happy AFAIK no homeopath works with "Dark Energy".
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Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:00 pm      Reply with quote
What label do we give to the energy that makes homeopathy possible? When the tinctures are created the process is one of a series of dilutions and shaking the mixture. The shaking is a critical part of the process. Why is that needed? How does it work?
My experiments showed me it was needed to amplify the energetic signal of the homeopathic signature of that substance. It seems all substances have a hidden energetic signature that becomes visible as we remove more and more of the physical and the shaking is done in specific manner that brings in energy. As the tincture successively get diluted and shaken and more of the power of the unseen can work, the mixture begins to act as an antenna attracting more energy. The more the process continues, the more energy the tincture picks up and it becomes additive, increasing the strength of the antenna. So what is this unseen energy? What label do we give it? It is clearly of a type that is called Subtle Energy. Dark energy is also a Subtle Energy. Is there a whole spectrum of Subtle Energies and dark energy is part of it? Or is it the other way around and all Subtle Energies are part of the spectrum of dark energy?

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Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:38 pm      Reply with quote
That's not homeopathy and you know it.

What you write is nonsense.
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