DIY Structured/Energized Waters
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

Fri May 06, 2011 5:38 pm

While discussing the Ageless Secret Gold product, some started an interesting discussion which deserves its own thread: creating DIY versions of ASG and other structured/energized waters. I am copying some of those posts from that thread here to get things started.

Please share your research, experiments, thoughts and experiences. Smile

Kassy_A wrote:

For those (like myself) who wish to know more about 'how to energize water ourselves', and the structured/energized water connection, the following links should be a good start.

For myself, I'll be ordering the 'water energizing mug', as well as the "Vortex Magnetizer"...

From what I read, it sounds like this type of *water* would be beneficial to drink, which is of great interest to me personally.. And sure, I'll try it on my skin for the hell of it!

Perhaps someone could ask Jim exactly which tool he uses to energize his product??? Perhaps he has the gallon sized pitcher? (Wouldn't that make 16 4oz bottles at a time.. And it only takes minutes.) Oh, and somewhere in my searches, I read that a tiny bit of additives (like in the ASG products), does indeed work well in the energized water.

Here are a few links for now;

http://www.quantumbalancing.com/vortex_magnetizer.htm

http://www.quantumbalancing.com/energized_water_2.htm

**Keliu, this link has an Australian #, maybe you can ask a few questions;

http://www.energizewater.com/index_files/vorticiser.htm

Some interesting info on why 'energized water for drinking' is good for you (including anti-aging.)

http://life-enthusiast.com/usa/water-energized-drinking-c-215.html?pID=1076

There is tons of info out there for making energized/structurized waters, and it all looks fairly straight forward. What I was unable to find, was anything special enough to warrant the very high price that Jim charges for the products... Or for that matter, how to partially energize water, for the cheaper product he offers.. (Not as strong??? Why??)

I had a thought last night about why some folks have amazing results with ASG, and yet others are in the 'zilch' arena. Maybe it would be worth doing some type of poll to see what things the *zilch* users have in common regarding topical products, supplements and gadgets. Perhaps there's a negative interaction somewhere, that is producing more than your fare share of free radicals... Confused

Keliu wrote:

With regard to the "science" of energised waters, here's an amazing list of all the internet sites selling them which has been compiled by Stephen Lower B.A. Biochemistry, University of California, Berkeley Ph.D. Physical Chemistry, University of British Columbia (SFU Chemistry faculty: 1965-1999)

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html

Hermosa wrote:

I was thinking about this whole water thing. We evolved from the water, and you don't have to search too hard to find all kinds of mystical and wonderful attributes ascribed to water. Religious rituals, like baptism. The healing waters of Lourdes. When I was a kid, we used to take vacations in a town that had become famous in the 30s and 40s for its incredible springs. Some people think you can cure just about anything by drinking enough water: http://www.karinya.com/waterhealing.htm

I guess it's surprising we don't see more of these water-based miracles.

Skippie wrote:

Sorry this is really long and maybe it's better posted in a new thread.

I’ve gotten interested in the “science” of structured/energized water too – those terms seem to be used interchangeably from everything I’ve read. I’ve probably been looking at the same websites as Keliu. The best “scientific” explanation I’ve seen for structured water is here: - http://www.quantumbalancing.com/energized_water_2.htm

Whether what is stated there is true or right, I couldn’t tell you because I don’t have the knowledge or background, but I would be interested in the opinions of those of with such scientific knowledge.

What is particularly interesting to me, especially as it relates to ASG, is this comment:

Quote:

These waters, which act as mineral carriers or transporters, may be used to transport other substances in the living system. Preliminary tests with cut flowers and other plants have shown a 400% increase in water and nutrient uptake when watered with a solution of liquid crystal water. (The control plants were given just distilled water).

What is true for plants may be true for animals. These high energy waters may act as more efficient nutrient carriers. Preliminary experiments with vitamins and herbal extracts show a definite increase in absorption. Riboflavin, vitamin B2, is an easy vitamin to measure in urine. Testing with riboflavin has shown an increased absorption of 500% when taken with liquid crystal colloids versus distilled water.

I saw many claims related to the growth of plants as I was looking at all the websites. Here’s a YouTube from a guy who uses structured water to grow his produce: How Structured Water can change our world - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsL1SBlQArc&NR=1

Of course, at the end he mentions that he also uses other techniques such as compost tea which, if you’re a gardener, you know that compost tea is like steroids for plants. Also, one of the water products, Willard Water, was tested against regular water at the University of Florida on plants and there was no difference in plant height, fresh weight, and quality.

Willard Water has been around a long, long time. In fact, there was a 60 Minutes segment on it in 1980 – which you can watch here if you’re so inclined: http://www.facebook.com/DrWillards#!/DrWillards?sk=app_4949752878 and a congressional hearing held on it.

Willard Water uses catalyst altered water, but the same claims are made for it as the other structured/energized waters. It surprises me that there hasn’t been more testing of the water considering the claims and length of time it’s been around. This is an excerpt from the 60 Minutes segment, which again seems to point to this water being a more efficient transporter or carrier or penetrator:

REASONER:
About the only laboratory work on what Willard Water does, has been done at the South Dakota School of Mines by Sister Marmion Howe, a Professor of Biology.

SISTER MARMION HOWE:
I took some different species of microorganisms and tested them with CAW or with Doc Willard's Water and without it and then I used different antibiotics on it to see if Willard Water enhanced the action of the antibiotic.

REASONER:
Does it?

SISTER MARMION:
Yes. I found that it did with certain organisms, not all.

REASONER:
The water also seemed to sometimes speed up the growth of bacteria, doesn't it?

SISTER MARMION:
Yes, we found that out. Some of my students did some work on that.

REASONER:
Do you have any theories based on your tests as to why it does what it does?

SISTER MARMION:
Well no, we need about a million dollars to do some studies on it but I think the fact that this is a surfactant - or a detergent-like acting material might make it penetrate a little bit more quickly and effectively.
Also, the claim is made in the video by people using the water that their vegetables and wheat grow much bigger and better.

So, how does this relate to AGS in my mind? Maybe the energized water in the product is enhancing the effect of the MSM. Toby posted pictures of her faded brown spot and Lacy mentioned that perhaps MSM and the trace minerals were responsible for that. MSM has also been touted for other skin benefits such as elasticity.

As I was looking at websites, I was amazed at how many skincare products there are made with structured/energized water. Some of these are very expensive and others are cheap. If my theory above is any good, then I don’t see why someone couldn’t just DIY their water, as Kassy is doing, or buy the structured/energized water and add their own ingredients.

This site has skincare products, products to make your own, and lots of videos which are supposed to support the whole idea: http://www.biznet1.com/water/
This site suggests adding trace minerals or Vitamin C crystals to further enhance the water.

Camu C Serum with structured water: http://thegoddessnextdoor.com/wordpress/category/skin-care/

Perfect Waters anti-aging products - http://www.perfectwaters.net/Bath-and-Beauty/

Youthlabs Age Reversal products - http://www.cantron.com/html/youth.html

And here’s the most expensive and interesting – in a lot of ways- I’ve seen: http://www.energeticinteractions.com/common/clientCustom.asp?UID=50902&SectionID=1&guid=E0C3F498-55E2-4CD8-A1C2-2433EF2E27FC It’s worth watching the CBS News video and the video of how to use the products. Also, look at the before and afters – they use Visia to show the differences.

And then there’s something else called electrolyzed-reduced water, which is also interesting and seems to be embraced as a more serious water to use, maybe because there have been some studies which back it up:

http://livingwaterhealth.biz/studies/Enagic_Proof_Book.pdf#page=37

http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v70/n2/abs/5001576a.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20944427

At any rate, I’m interested to hear what Kassy comes up with. Maybe she can test the water by using plants.

Kassy_A wrote:

My ambition to try a DIY version is two fold;

1.) I'm impressed with the health benefits I've read during my research, and that drinking energized water is a plus for those suffering with autoimmune disease. Both myself and my son suffer with those health issues, so it's a no brainer for me to do what so many others can do, in the comfort of their homes, energizing/strucutizing their water.

2.) Several of my cyber-buddies are either wanting to try ASG and can't afford to, or are happily using ASG and can't afford to continue to purchase... I am more than willing to try to duplicate ASG for them, as an aside to my main reason for purchasing the equipment.

(I will definitely douse myself in the bloody stuff, and if I look like I've had a face lift in a month you'll see the *new* me on Facebook.. Very Happy

)

Anyway, since I posted those U-Tube videos on this thread many months ago, I have spent some time researching the topic of energized water, and although I've concentrated on the internal benefits, I see no reason why it shouldn't have some benefit to skin as well..

free skin care · Sat May 07, 2011 12:07 pm

I think this is fantastic. I love hte stuff people have found on this already, and a huge shout out to Kassy for her info. I'll be reading with interest on people's testing and results for sure!

free skin care · Wed May 18, 2011 3:34 pm

Skippie wrote:

Kassy,

Which energizing product did you use? I think you said you would be ordering a couple of them. Did your skin feel softer and/or tighter after the water dried? Do you know the ph of the energized water?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm interested in your experiment and appreciate you trying it out for us.

Howdy Skip!

This is the vortex magnetic energizing equipment I'm using, and there's a how to video also here;

http://www.vibrantvitalwater.com/index_vitalwater.htm

I was going to hold off on sharing my thoughts for a while, but I think it's probably easier to just share as I go on the forum, because lots of folks are emailing me at this point..

As I mentioned yesterday, the taste of the drinking water I vortexed is surprisingly better tasting. Whether or not it will provide health benefits, only time will tell on that..

Since the majority are intrigued and curious about the "skin" water I've come up with, I'll just concentrate on that unless someone has questions on the 'drinking' water.

I'm not going in to details publicly (yet) on the additives I've added, but suffice it to say this is what I put in;

- Just shy of 2 liters of bottled water
- MSM
- Niacin
- Trace Minerals
- Aloe Vera (fresh from my plant)
- Capsicum Liquid Extract
- (I didn't get the Helichrysum Italicum I ordered yet, but when I do I'll put a few drops in the next batch.) I don't think it's an important ingredient though...

So since Saturday I've used this 3 times per day exclusively (other than an exfoliating mask I did prior, as I do every Saturday.) I haven't used ANYTHING else!

I don't have a mineral lamp, but did use the blow dryer for the recommended 20 or so seconds as others have shared. I also used my LED 3 times since Saturday (which included today.)

I do NOT notice any additional softness to my already very soft skin.

I DO notice a tight, dry feeling immediately after using the blow dryer, which I don't particularly care for. This goes away fairly quickly, once my skin cools off. This tightness is particularly noticable around my eyes and neck.. (I'm presuming that this is because the skin is thinner in those areas, and doesn't have the benefit of the fat, lipids and other good stuff, that's more abundant in say the cheek and mouth areas.)

Please don't take my feeling of "tightness" to translate into a visible tightening of the skin.. It simply "feels" tight, but does not LOOK tigher!

At this 5th day of just using this *water* exclusively, I would share that my skin feels a little on the dry side (which is a 1st!)... This evening I will whip up a very simple moisturizing lotion, which I will probably use each night..

So that's about it so far... Hopefully this little experiment will result in a DIY alternative to ASG, for those interested... Cool

I'll use different proportions of the ingredients over the next few weeks, and let you know how it goes.

ETA: The pH checked out at 6.8, but my darn strips expired in March.. Sad

New ones on order.. Very Happy

free skin care · Thu May 19, 2011 5:02 pm

I watched the video (why don't these people ever make decent videos? The sound was really bad).

But the magnets and the water vortex made me think of water going down the plug-hole. Water goes down the plug-hole in different directions in different hemispheres, depending on the earth's magnetic field. In the Southern Hemisphere it spins from right to left - in the Northern Hemisphere it spins from left to right.http://www.sciencemadesimple.co.uk/page51g.html

Does that mean that water is energised after it's gone down the drain? And is the cow energised after it's been in the tornado?

free skin care · Wed May 25, 2011 5:02 am

rileygirl wrote:

circus wrote:

That's it! You must be a goddess already Antonia! Very Happy

Keliu, DarkMoon, rileygirl too! Very Happy

Uhhhhhh, Nope, count me out on that one, circus! Laughing

I'm a goddess on the inside but unfortunately you'd never know by looking at the outside!

With regard to energising water - why aren't all energised waters equal? Considering that it is the energy that is the crucial component - wouldn't all energised waters be the same providing they contain the same energy or amount of energy?

According to the ASG blurb, ASG is made by using a catalyst - the catalyst being Niacin, Cayenne Pepper, etc. The catalyst speeds up the process and creates the energy (I think) but is not contained in the finished product. The actual ingredients in the product are only there in minuscule amounts - so what role they're supposed to play, I'm not sure.

But it would be interesting to understand why it's not possible to duplicate ASG by simply adding the Aloe, MSM and minerals to Willards Water. Unless the catalyst Jim uses does create a different energy than the Willards energy. Although, Willards Water is also made using a catalyst.

And if anyone can understand what I've just written - please explain it to me!

free skin care · Wed May 25, 2011 9:56 am

Wow, what a cool thread! I feel a little hesitant posting since I haven't read through all the related material, but that's really interesting to me about the catalysts being niacin & cayenne. Both are "heaty" (you can tell by their effect on you - niacin giving you that flush, and cayenne burning). So, like a homeopathic (I guess) strategy, a miniscule amount triggers a energetic reaction throughout the water so the original triggers are not even needed in the end product. Just like irritating skin - the irritant is removed and no longer contained in the vessel (body), but the effect remains.
And maybe certain triggers only fire up certain components of the vessel... seems to me that water may be just that sophisticated as to be the case. Giving them varying levels/types of energy.
Sorry if I may not be adding anything that isn't obvious here... I guess I'm just thinking out loud. Fascinating! Gives me a lot to consider w/regard to how energy moves.

free skin care · Wed May 25, 2011 4:56 pm

I just dropped in for my evenings entertainment. What I find so fascinating is how all of you are being vilified for asking a question that makes perfect sense. But no one will give you a straight answer and now even the inventor of the product has a bodyguard who will not allow him to speak for himself! What is wrong with that product? If one is not supposed to use it before bed for fear it may disrupt the sleep cycle maybe it is altering one's personality also. Here, spray this "dark energy" on your face it will make you beautiful. Bad Grin

free skin care · Fri May 27, 2011 12:27 am

Lacy has given me the link to this website on water:
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/sitemap.html

There's everything you need to know about water - except how to make a cup of tea! There's allot of scientific info so it's a bit heavy going for me. I can't find a mention of energising water - but I'm going to write to the professor and ask for his opinion.

Kassy - maybe your magnet device has purified your water which is making it taste better:

Liquid water is affected by magnetic fields [1522, 1597] and such fields can assist its purification.
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/magnetic.html#mag

free skin care · Fri May 27, 2011 6:08 am

Here's some interesting reading by Paul Shin, Ph.D. in chemistry, on hexagonal water. He basically refutes the claims made in the book "The Water Puzzle and the Hexagonal Key" by Dr. Mu Shik Jhon, also a Ph.D. in chemistry.

http://www.csun.edu/~alchemy/Caveat_Emptor.pdf

I enjoyed reading the differences between science and pseudoscience on his powerpoint presentation.

http://www.alchemedu.org/docs/Pseudoscience.ppt

I suspect he might be willing to come and answer questions relating to this topic. In a footnote to his article, he says "If you are interested I will be happy to test your water samples as I can."

free skin care · Sat May 28, 2011 4:42 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

Reading Jim suggested on the special attributes of water that has been affected by outside forces such as writing nice or mean words and placing under the container, playing types of music, praying ect.:

Dr. Emoto

http://www.masaru-emoto.net/english/e_ome_home.html

A researcher who wanted to investigate what Dr. Emoto claims were:

There are innumerable companies today that make their livelihoods selling information and products that are supposed to be beneficial to human health. Ranging from miracle cures to last-ditch efforts, they are at best based on unsubstantiated ideas, and are at worst complete falsehoods. Unfortunately for his credibility with the scientific community, Dr. Emoto sells products based on his claims. For example, the products page of Emoto’s Hado website is currently offering “geometrically perfect” “Indigo water” that is “highly charged hexagonally structured concentrate,” and supposedly creates “structured water” that is “is more easily assimilated at the cellular level” for $35 for an eight-ounce bottle. Without providing scientific research references for the allegedly amazing qualities of his Indigo Water, Emoto’s commercial venture calls to mind ethical concerns regarding his intent and motivation—questions that would not be present if any scientist had published research supporting his claims.

Since Dr. Emoto is going it alone he receives much criticism for being a quack selling quackery. For example, the James Randi Educational foundation, an organization that offers a “one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event” (Randi, Challenge) has offered to give Dr. Emoto the prize if he will agree “to perform his tests in a double-blind fashion” (Randi, Water), yet Dr. Emoto has not responded.

Kristopher Setchfield, BA, Health Science
Natural Science Department
Castleton State College, Vermont

http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

Very interesting, K. Kangen (hexagonal water) is going for a few $ a bottle at the local alternative pharmacy. They make it fresh for you from the Kangen machine, so this - and the "price of hope" pricing sounds like a load of codswallop.

free skin care · Mon May 30, 2011 10:38 am

^

Kassy_A wrote:

@LoriA.. So glad you joined this discussion.. You bring much to ponder, and I thank you.. Very Happy

That's so nice of you to say!

I like how so many came spilling out onto this thread at once like desperate refugees from the other, lol!
It prompted me to take a look over there, and wow, I applaud all of you for taking up the challenge to contend with everyone so passionate about their beliefs on this one. But I guess EDS is my happy place, and I don't want to deal with frustration - I've had enough resistance to deal with in other areas of my life. I feel like I may be more inclined to believe in some of the "unproven" stuff (certainly not all) but I honestly appreciate your challenging these products' claims. Reading through it all might hit some of my triggers (not to mention be beyond me in terms of time, attention & understanding), so by not reading a thread so "charged" you can all stay my buds!

I'm sure its been said in the 74 pages(!) but if these things weren't so expensive, and if there weren't thousands sheisters out there having made us all so suspicious, we might all be able to believe (if that is actually part of the "formula"), see for ourselves and decide if they're effective. As it stands today, that's a tall order.

Thanks everyone - entertaining reading!

free skin care · Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:41 pm

I'm not sure that the finding out the contents will explain the unexplainable but it will at least give Kassy something more to go on. My contact is a very level headed gentleman with varied interests, and an open mind. I hope he can do it for me. I was a little concerned about the not spraying before bedtime claim as this suggests it can have an effect on the pituitary. That said, I used to fall off to sleep after spraying ASG and using my LightStim. (Perhaps it's only the "Diamond" version that is supposed to affect sleep.)

Also, I guess we can go on asking various people's opinions on structured and energized water until we are blue in the face but it will remain a matter of individual opinion and personal belief. Back to the "Whatever you believe in, is..." line of thought.

free skin care · Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:39 pm

Antonia wrote:

I thought he said it tongue in cheek.

I thought it was pretty funny, and for some reason it reminded me of high school, where our math/English/social studies/science teachers would all try to convince us that their subject (and only theirs!) was the key to understanding life, the universe, and everything.

http://www.amazon.com/Vitalizer-Plus-Hexagonal-Oxygen-Water/dp/B0017SJFEG

free skin care · Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:11 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

I really like this part of one reviewers explanation! Laughing

You see this little tornado like in the picture and it breaks up the water molecules and does all this scientific stuff to the water to make it easier for your body to absorb.

Lolol. I didn't read that. Too funny. Hermosa, you and I must have gone to the same school. My history teacher was so upset when I took biological sciences that she showed up at my house and gave my mother heck. So insane!

free skin care · Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:42 pm

FWIW, there is such thing as water clusters (transient weak Van der Waals forces among water molecules), but they are not the same thing as structured water. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but structured water is indeed bunk pseudo-science. While I love the power of positive thinking, no one has been able to replicate Dr. Emoto's studies. Also, the studies done on water clustering with NMR (i.e., fMRI) imaging is very reliable, again proving that structured water is bunk. Less than < 0.01% of scientists may believe in it, and 0% of the Ph.D. chemists that I personally know believe in it.

Also, in regards to Toby's brown spot fading, MSM is known to fade brown spots. No energized water is needed to explain that. In fact, many people have phenomenal skin results just from applying MSM topically. Combine that with aloe, and some herbs and minerals, and you've got a good skincare product for many. Like from the beginning, though, I still am suspicious about the ASG product as there's nothing in it that would merit such a huge price tag. Not skeptical about the product being great for many people's skin, just skeptical about the price tag, some of the (pseudo-)scientific claims, and a couple of the business practices.

Finally, "vortexed" water tastes better to many people simply because the oxygen content of the water can been increased by the shaking of the water. If I recall correctly, vortexing can up to double the oxygen content of the water. If any of you have pets, you might know that some pets are finicky and will not drink water that's been sitting out for days. However, if you then have that some water recycled through a fountain, which acts to increase the oxygen content of the water, then the finicky pets will then drink the water again. This may explain why the vortexed water tastes better to Kassy---it is simply less flat (less "old" tasting).

Just my thoughts on the subject (hope this doesn't come across as too negative!).

free skin care · Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:37 am

The subjects of dark energy and the energizing of water have been discussed extensively in the original Ageless Secret topic. Scientists have found your claims to be bogus.

Energized waters have their place in the realms of magic and religion. Dark energy is something astronomers are researching, as a possible expanation for the expansion of the universe.

Your product in itself has a lovely simple formula and, as I have said before, would be very well explained through the language of homeopathy. Especially the use of capsicum is intriguing and innovative. In another topic I posted a link to research re. capsicum and fibroblasts and it may have an effect that can increase the production of collagen.

But don't insult the intelligence of this forum with this bogus science.

free skin care · Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:38 pm

That's not homeopathy and you know it.

What you write is nonsense.

free skin care · Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:50 pm

Yes but Jim never made a connection between Ageless and homeopathy until after I brought it up.

Aprile, I know you have good results with Ageless and I am happy for you, but I don't like the way my input is being used for a sales pitch. I don't endorse the stuff, and wouldn't buy it. At first Jim even downplayed the presence of capsicum in Ageless, where it's probably its star ingredient, so he never had any idea about homeopathy in the first place.

Capsicum causes an irritant effect. That causes flushing, increased blood flow, and the defense mechanisms are activated. That can be beneficial, but the same effect can be achieved through massage or vaculifter.
It is this increase in blood flow and the defensive response that is used in homeopathy to stimulate a sluggish metabolism. No dark energy, no mumbo jumbo, but a kick in the butt to (mainly) the digestive system is what capsicum has been designed for.

I feel used by Jim, and a bit disgusted, and will not correspond with him again.

free skin care · Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:46 am

Jim is wrong and doesn't even understand enough physics to be able to understand even the basics about dark energy. His statements in the above quote are riddled with inaccuracies. I got my PhD is cosmology (in physics of the early universe), and we studied different theories of vacuum energy that can cause the universe to accelerate outwards. I can say that his statements are so wrong as to be utterly ridiculous to ANY real physicist. I believe that Keliu also spoke to a professional astronomer who also said the same. That is why you will also see NO professional skincare company nor a professional scientist claiming to have harnessed dark energy. If Ageless Secret works for some people, it's definitely for other reasons (e.g., aloe, MSM).

Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:39 pm

Hi felixia, Thank you for your question regarding the choice and selection method for Niacin, Cayenne pepper, Ho Shou Wu, and Helichrysum.

They were among many promising herbs and ingredients I tested. The primary criteria was how well do they support the energy field of the body? The process took years and it was determined by taking lots of Kirlian photos and measurements made with Bio-Meridian Machines.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.