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fitnessbunny2
New Member
 
Joined: 04 Jun 2011
Posts: 1
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Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:22 pm  |
I would like to point out a suspicious trend I noticed while reading through old facial exercise threads on this forum. The posts seem to be biased in favor of Flex Effect. What I have noticed is there are several long standing members who keep emphasizing the benefits of Flex Effect while diminishing the results obtained from competing authors. I would understand if people who do Flex Effect looked 30 years younger while those who do other facial workout programs looked only 10 years younger. However, this is not the case, which is why I cannot see any justification for such one-sided assessment.
It's fairly subtle, so you have to read carefully to see it. But here is what a typical conversation between these members looks like (they write it much more elaborately, of course): "I tried exercise program X, and it worked for awhile, but after some time, I stopped seeing results/noticed new wrinkles, so I switched to Flex Effect, and now I am finally getting the results I want." Sometimes, to make their posts more believable, they will give some praise to other products but will usually accompany it with backhand criticism, for example that the competing program creators look as good as they do partly with the help of makeup.
These forum members are a bit more generous in their praise for competitors who are known to have used Flex Effect themselves in the past (e.g. Carolyn's Facial Fitness, Ageless If You Dare). However, even then the conversation usually goes along the lines of "Both programs are good and I do them both, but I still think Flex Effect is head and shoulders above the rest." If anyone happens to criticise Flex Effect, these same forum members are quick to rush to the program's defence, although it's hard to see an example of them sticking up for one of their competitors. But don't take my word for it, have a look for yourself. It's the same on page after page.
One thing that I find highly unusual is that I am no longer able to post on this forum under my original screen name fitnessbunny. The trouble began when I started a discussion about several face fitness programs on page 22 of the "Facial Exercise: Share the Process and Results" thread. The discussion turned to what members thought of Deborah Crawley's results, and after I made a few posts pointing out a few problems I perceived with the program and Deborah's results, I now get the following message if I try to post a reply, "Sorry, you have reached your maximum daily allowable number of posts for today. As a new user you are restricted to 5 posts per day until you have made a total of 50 posts...".
Interestingly, I have only made 3 posts (not 5) in the last 24 hours (on Saturday June 4), which you can verify by clicking on "profile" under the fitnessbunny screen name, and then click "Find all posts by fitnessbunny".
My intention here is not to point fingers, or even to suggest that this type of thing only happens with FlexEffect. For instance, if you go on Amazon and read the reviews on some of the face fitness programs out there, you may notice that several reviewers complained about how someone keeps giving one-star reviews on the products and then directing buyers to purchase Carole Maggio's Facercise instead (see for example the reviews for "Happy Face Yoga").
I will probably get a hammering for writing this from those same forum members who have been marketing Flex Effect, and they may even try to get this post removed or have me kicked off the forum, but that will only prove I'm right.
I may not be completely right, and I'm not saying that everyone who has ever posted something good about Flex Effect is marketing this product. What I am trying to do is to alert you to some of the underhanded marketing tactics being used out there. Don't trust everything you read on the internet, and don't assume that a facial fitness program is the best just because you see a lot of praise for it on a forum, even if the praise is coming from a long-time forum member. Instead, purchase several different products from several different authors using different methods, and find what works best for you.
The reason forums like this one exist is so that real people can share their experiences and find helpful advice, so let's keep it honest. |
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Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:26 am |
While I would agree that impartiality is golden on forums such as this, I don't believe any facial system is given favor, here. Claudia and Sean have both taken heat in the past. They just happen to be more prolific in posting than reps from other systems. As far as I understand, these other systems (see Aprile's posts from Carole Maggio's or Loulou's on her own program) are more than welcome to post.
I can understand your frustration at not discovering what yet works for you personally. But seriously, you couldn't exercise a little more restraint by waiting the mandated posting restriction and then post under your original account? |
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Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:44 am |
| pleiades wrote: |
| While I would agree that impartiality is golden on forums such as this, I don't believe any facial system is given favor, here. Claudia and Sean have both taken heat in the past. They just happen to be more prolific in posting than reps from other systems. As far as I understand, these other systems (see Aprile's posts from Carole Maggio's or Loulou's on her own program) are more than welcome to post. |
I agree.
And people are obviously going to be much more enthusiastic and passionate about their preferred system.
I'm not sure why you're experiencing problems in posting more than 3 posts with your username, but there has been a limit level for the number of posts that a new poster can make during the course of one day for quite some time (due to problems with excessive numbers of nonsensical posts in order to boost discount percentages). I am certain that it is nothing personal against you and would advise you to contact EDS if you continue to experience problems with posting your 5 allowed messages per day. They're usually very helpful. |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:28 am |
| fitnessbunny2 wrote: |
One thing that I find highly unusual is that I am no longer able to post on this forum under my original screen name fitnessbunny. The trouble began when I started a discussion about several face fitness programs on page 22 of the "Facial Exercise: Share the Process and Results" thread. The discussion turned to what members thought of Deborah Crawley's results, and after I made a few posts pointing out a few problems I perceived with the program and Deborah's results, I now get the following message if I try to post a reply, "Sorry, you have reached your maximum daily allowable number of posts for today. As a new user you are restricted to 5 posts per day until you have made a total of 50 posts...".
Interestingly, I have only made 3 posts (not 5) in the last 24 hours (on Saturday June 4), which you can verify by clicking on "profile" under the fitnessbunny screen name, and then click "Find all posts by fitnessbunny". |
fitnessbunny, it's not unusual at all. You actually did reach your limit of 5 posts per day, however, as a new member, two of your posts are not visible as they contained links. (New members are not able to post links until a certain number of posts have been made.) HTHs. |
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Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:00 pm |
| fitnessbunny2 wrote: |
I would like to point out a suspicious trend I noticed while reading through old facial exercise threads on this forum. The posts seem to be biased in favor of Flex Effect. What I have noticed is there are several long standing members who keep emphasizing the benefits of Flex Effect while diminishing the results obtained from competing authors. I would understand if people who do Flex Effect looked 30 years younger while those who do other facial workout programs looked only 10 years younger. However, this is not the case, which is why I cannot see any justification for such one-sided assessment.
It's fairly subtle, so you have to read carefully to see it. But here is what a typical conversation between these members looks like (they write it much more elaborately, of course): "I tried exercise program X, and it worked for awhile, but after some time, I stopped seeing results/noticed new wrinkles, so I switched to Flex Effect, and now I am finally getting the results I want." Sometimes, to make their posts more believable, they will give some praise to other products but will usually accompany it with backhand criticism, for example that the competing program creators look as good as they do partly with the help of makeup.
These forum members are a bit more generous in their praise for competitors who are known to have used Flex Effect themselves in the past (e.g. Carolyn's Facial Fitness, Ageless If You Dare). However, even then the conversation usually goes along the lines of "Both programs are good and I do them both, but I still think Flex Effect is head and shoulders above the rest." If anyone happens to criticise Flex Effect, these same forum members are quick to rush to the program's defence, although it's hard to see an example of them sticking up for one of their competitors. But don't take my word for it, have a look for yourself. It's the same on page after page.
One thing that I find highly unusual is that I am no longer able to post on this forum under my original screen name fitnessbunny. The trouble began when I started a discussion about several face fitness programs on page 22 of the "Facial Exercise: Share the Process and Results" thread. The discussion turned to what members thought of Deborah Crawley's results, and after I made a few posts pointing out a few problems I perceived with the program and Deborah's results, I now get the following message if I try to post a reply, "Sorry, you have reached your maximum daily allowable number of posts for today. As a new user you are restricted to 5 posts per day until you have made a total of 50 posts...".
Interestingly, I have only made 3 posts (not 5) in the last 24 hours (on Saturday June 4), which you can verify by clicking on "profile" under the fitnessbunny screen name, and then click "Find all posts by fitnessbunny".
My intention here is not to point fingers, or even to suggest that this type of thing only happens with FlexEffect. For instance, if you go on Amazon and read the reviews on some of the face fitness programs out there, you may notice that several reviewers complained about how someone keeps giving one-star reviews on the products and then directing buyers to purchase Carole Maggio's Facercise instead (see for example the reviews for "Happy Face Yoga").
I will probably get a hammering for writing this from those same forum members who have been marketing Flex Effect, and they may even try to get this post removed or have me kicked off the forum, but that will only prove I'm right.
I may not be completely right, and I'm not saying that everyone who has ever posted something good about Flex Effect is marketing this product. What I am trying to do is to alert you to some of the underhanded marketing tactics being used out there. Don't trust everything you read on the internet, and don't assume that a facial fitness program is the best just because you see a lot of praise for it on a forum, even if the praise is coming from a long-time forum member. Instead, purchase several different products from several different authors using different methods, and find what works best for you.
The reason forums like this one exist is so that real people can share their experiences and find helpful advice, so let's keep it honest. |
Hey Fitnessbunny,
You seen like you are new to the forum, so I would encourage you to read many more threads before coming to any conclusions. You will notice that none of the longer term members have posted that they feel that this forum is biased for or against a particular program. FWIW, having read all the facial exercise posts on EDS in the past 2.5 years, I agree with pleiades and I don't think there is a preferred facial exercise system on EDS. Rather things go through cycles (at least in terms of whether posts are positive or negative).
Right now, FlexEffect seems to be getting the most positive attention. At other times, it would get more negative than positive attention. There were also periods of a few months when Ageless If We Dare was the most raved about system. Facercise also goes through such phases, but has a smaller following on this forum. And then there are phases of weeks of when more posts than most are negative about facial exercises, and people talk a lot about problems that they ran into on facial exercises.
While no forum is flawless, I don't think they are many "plants" or "fakes" on EDS relatively speaking. There are only a few suspicious posts that crop up from time to time. I think we are really lucky in that regards (thanks, EDS!).
Also, I went back and forth on whether to say something about it, but I think what happened is your post was see more as an attack than your constructive opinion and so people got defensive. I think if all parties just toned down the language, focus on sharing experiences, being tolerant, and giving others the benefit of the doubt, that's best for all of us  |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:23 pm |
| Ooops, typo...that should say "...post was SEEN more as..." |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:29 pm |
For me I find that if I love a product or I'm really passionate about a system or program, I am more likely to sing it's praises and recommend this more than other things on the market I have tried.
I don't think this is at all biased and even though quite a few members love this system to others they have used, just keep in mind not everything is for everyone and it is a matter of taste and what works for you. This is just my opinion and I don't at all get annoyed if someone is biased over one product to another. In the end it's what they find has worked for them and to me I love hearing about products and systems that work for others, even if it didn't work for me.
I also say if you don't like it don't use it and find something that does work for you. |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:56 am |
| FB I think you're misunderstanding things going on here. I see you have also posted on the SkinBio forum too. Its not so much there is bias, but you started out asking people's opinions, and then proceed to make an idiot out of people (Claudia for example) when they're trying to help you, and its not really nice behaviour. No one uses any one program except the program developers and even then, they're constantly modifying stuff. There are threads for Facercise, Ageless etc. I think you need to reread your messages as you came across quite differently than I suspected you intended. |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:06 am |
| Also see this got posted on the Ageless forum - wow Fitnessbunny you seem to have quite a battle with the FlexEffect program going on! How far is this going to go? |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:28 am |
I don't see a bias, just that FE is an aggressive program (maybe too much for some people) that gets results. Facercise has a lot of positive amazon reviews, but if you look at the 5-stars, many seem to be plants (only reviewed Facercise products).
When I first got on this forum two years ago, Ageless was the darling du jour. I agree with the comment about programs going in and out of fashion. Tanaka, for example, was hugely popular for a few months. And it's free! I don't see manipulation, just a lemming-like desire to be on top of whatever seems to be working for others. |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:06 am |
I think the fact that this thread exists, and that people have replied to you graciously (in the main) says a lot.
Some dodgy stuff can indeed go down on forums, but I don't believe EDS is like that. One I was a member of (not skincare) went into meltdown amid rumours of the admin reading/deleting PMs/taking backhanders from vendors/getting rid of members on a whim. If what you said didn't fit in with the party line, pooof, your post was gone.
As Hermosa says, there are raves and fashions on here. When I joined it was all about Baby Quasar and Ageless. Nowadays I wait a while before I decide what to go for, and ignore the enthusiastic posts. There are some members who jump on their pet subject every chance they get, but self-promotion seems rare on here.
Don't be discouraged, and as most people tend to cherry-pick their favourite facial exercises, I'd suggest you give them a try..regardless of your feelings.
I'm not sure where fitnessbunny "made an idiot" out of Claudia as TM states? Fb expressed an opinion from a still of Deborah's face, asking about overbuild. Maybe it offended some people, but she is allowed to ask, surely. |
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Louise,45,UK.Sunscreen Face/Body L/Term!OCM(Castor/Carrier Oil,Vaculift),MUAC 12.5%,18% TCA,Working Up To SkinObsession 25% TCA/Jessner's.Ageless,Dr Roller,Retin-A 0.05% & 0.1%,AAging Lightstim,CP Serum,Dermawand,Vaculift Face 2 Body 2,Pretika Sonic Brush.Microfibre Cloth.Tua Viso(Broken  ),Palovia (Started 7 April 2011!). |
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Gidget2
New Member
Joined: 25 May 2011
Posts: 9
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:23 am |
| Personally, I question fitness bunny's motives in starting this thread and her L o n g post at the start. My 2 cents. |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:29 am |
I'm too liberal and forgiving, probably  I'm thinking maybe Fb has took offence and went a little OTT with her postings.
Deborah Crawley looks great to my eyes, anyway. |
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Louise,45,UK.Sunscreen Face/Body L/Term!OCM(Castor/Carrier Oil,Vaculift),MUAC 12.5%,18% TCA,Working Up To SkinObsession 25% TCA/Jessner's.Ageless,Dr Roller,Retin-A 0.05% & 0.1%,AAging Lightstim,CP Serum,Dermawand,Vaculift Face 2 Body 2,Pretika Sonic Brush.Microfibre Cloth.Tua Viso(Broken ),Palovia (Started 7 April 2011!). |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:44 pm |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| Also see this got posted on the Ageless forum - wow Fitnessbunny you seem to have quite a battle with the FlexEffect program going on! How far is this going to go? |
Sounds like quite a vendetta. Very strange. |
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Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:59 pm |
Someone has actually agreed with Fitnessbunny (on Ageless forum). While I don't believe anything in life is black and white, as Fb seemed to think her posts were being limited on purpose on here, it does hint at a rather erm, impulsive sort of nature.
It was a mistake any new member could make, but perhaps it's better to be more mindful and try not to focus on the worst case scenario.
Most members on EDS are very intelligent, kind and helpful. The trolls and troublemakers are kept at a minimum; there's little back-patting and empty banter, thankfully, which is why I'm still here.
Maybe the longer Fb spends on EDS, her assumptions may change. |
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Louise,45,UK.Sunscreen Face/Body L/Term!OCM(Castor/Carrier Oil,Vaculift),MUAC 12.5%,18% TCA,Working Up To SkinObsession 25% TCA/Jessner's.Ageless,Dr Roller,Retin-A 0.05% & 0.1%,AAging Lightstim,CP Serum,Dermawand,Vaculift Face 2 Body 2,Pretika Sonic Brush.Microfibre Cloth.Tua Viso(Broken ),Palovia (Started 7 April 2011!). |
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Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:07 am |
Where she was saying that Claudia said one thing, when clearly she didn't and also questioning that Deb's face is imbalanced. Also not knowing that she's Deb's daughter?
| ljk wrote: |
| fitnessbunny "made an idiot" out of Claudia as TM states? Fb expressed an opinion from a still of Deborah's face, asking about overbuild. Maybe it offended some people, but she is allowed to ask, surely. |
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Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:30 am |
The comparing her face to a 60-something reply was a little sarcastic, I thought. I don't think any 30-something would appreciate that. But in general Claudia was patient and explained things carefully.
Fb not knowing Claudia and Deb are related is fair enough; she's new to facial exercises.
I still don't see anything wrong with expressing an opinion. People can have their beliefs, but no need for it to turn into a catfight. If someone is intent on stirring up trouble, eventually it backfires anyway.
If Fb is genuinely interested in giving facial exercises a try, instead of dismissing them offhand, she may come round. That, of course, is up to her.
Gardengirl's post on Ageless Forum was interesting. I don't do FE, and know nothing about her other comments. It's a shame she felt she was being attacked on FE Forums when things weren't going well with her routine.
Ironically Ageless Forum has its troublemakers on there, too. Must just go with the territory (facial exercises). |
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Louise,45,UK.Sunscreen Face/Body L/Term!OCM(Castor/Carrier Oil,Vaculift),MUAC 12.5%,18% TCA,Working Up To SkinObsession 25% TCA/Jessner's.Ageless,Dr Roller,Retin-A 0.05% & 0.1%,AAging Lightstim,CP Serum,Dermawand,Vaculift Face 2 Body 2,Pretika Sonic Brush.Microfibre Cloth.Tua Viso(Broken ),Palovia (Started 7 April 2011!). |
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Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:40 am |
I don't think it was meant with sarcasim, but can understand how it could be intrepreted that way. I think the not knowing Claudia/Deb thing though isn't so much fair enough, as its painted all over the forum so if fb had been there, she'd have seen or learned a little more about it.
I agree with you re expressing opinion, but think it has to be delivered in a polite way. The way fb came off, she was rather insulting. Posting the photo of Deb's face in motion, and drawing arrows to show lines which she says are permanent (and I had to rewatch my dvd last night and Deb’s face does move all over the place without doubt, but when she stops moving, you can see there are no lines on her face). I think it would have been very different is perhaps she expressed that she didn’t want to look like her, and got advice rather than just starting to overly critique her and insult her (i.e. saying about imbalance etc). It obviously did kind of backfire, but then I think it seems to esculate too – she went onto Skin Bio forum, Ageless if you dare etc.
Think Gardengirl said she was attacked here on EDS, not on the forum there. I like her a lot, she’s a great gal but wasn’t there when she was there but believe her when she said she wasn’t treated nicely but do think they’ve come a long way since the old times which you’ve got to give them credit for. Likewise though I think its also important to note when people were struggling with Ageless it was the folks helping them out on the FlexEffect forum, which they didn’t get paid for.
I suppose with the internet, you can easily read hidden meaning into people’s messages, and they don’t carry the same tone or sound as if it was a face to face conversation. Think it just goes with the territory on forums doesn’t it! |
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Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:37 pm |
I do lots of facial exercise programs and I fairly evaluate them from my perspective. I do not have allegience. From what I have noticed fb's posts have at times been a bit combative toward some programs. It does make you say hmmmm.
This is for fb: Facial Exercise is something that takes time and consistancy. You have to be willing to observe results over time and adjust as needed (without criticizing the program I might add). NOTHING will work for everyone. I appreciate all of the programs and the originators as I have learned from all of them what will and will not work for me....(Good and Bad). No need to criticize any of them - what does or doesn't work is one thing....but to be personal is something else.
Also if you look at Deb or Carole or Carolyn they do look marvelous for their age group. Deb Crowley has lovely eyes (I love her eye exercises).
TheresaMary - just so you know I DID NOT KNOW CLAUDIA was her daughter until she showed on EDS. So please don't make assumptions = that's not fair. And I don't think anyone was trying to make an idiot of anyone. I was sorry to know you wrote that. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:23 am |
I think your misunderstanding me, but lets just say enough is enough already and move on.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| TheresaMary - just so you know I DID NOT KNOW CLAUDIA was her daughter until she showed on EDS. So please don't make assumptions = that's not fair. And I don't think anyone was trying to make an idiot of anyone. I was sorry to know you wrote that. |
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:26 pm |
I dunno, I think for the most part with a few very obvious annoyances, most people are pretty good here about leaving bias out of these. I personally think FE is a phase, not to say it doesn't work for some people or isn't a good program, but when I first started here it was Ageless, Ageless, Ageless. FE seems to be the current trend that people are excited about.
I do not do facial exercises, nor do I intend to start for the record. Welcome to the forum, and I hope you are able to get past the few troublemakers and love this forum like I do. |
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Late 30's, fair skin, dark hair. Retin A, DIY potions. Missions completed- acne, acne scarring, 11's, redness, contact dermatitis. Working on maintenence and cellulite. |
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:19 pm |
Ava... This is Claudia from FE...you may think it's a phase... that's fine... However, you'll realize the FlexEffect is as old as you, according to your signature... That's a dang long phase... It's been around longer than this internet phase thing... that didn't even exist when FE started. Nor did anyone think the internet, personal computer in our home idea was even feasable... Does anyone remember using Gopher? as a search engine...
You would be right, however, these forums go through phases... and everyone likes one thing, and moves to the next. If you research back, You'll find that many of todays people that love FE or ANY program, hated the idea of touching their face beyond what was necessary to wash their face...on this same forum... some several years earlier... |
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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:24 pm |
Hey Claudia,
I think that Ava was just using the term "phase" to mean that FlexEffect is currently the facial program in vogue on EDS. I don't think she meant that FlexEffect is itself a phase or is a short-lived trend; that is, I don't think she meant it as a slight. |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:44 pm |
Yeah, I figured as much... I didn't take it as a slight at all actually...It's actually a bizarre thought to me that a now 30 y/o sees it as something sort of newish... when my minds eye sees my mom at 30 something just starting out... It doesn't seem possible... Kind of like watching your babies grow up... mine are 6 now... REALLY???
The thing I've noticed... with EVERYTHING... not just facial exercises... is that you see a person come in and report xyz on product A... and there is excitement... and then it dies down... and then a newbie comes in and does the same thing 6 months to a year later... It's a big cycle I find... don't you? |
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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:04 am |
| Love the title of this thread - but it appears so. If you give any negative feedback you get jumped on. |
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