Is anyone using Retin A + AHA/BHA + CPS?
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free skin care · Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:32 pm

I'm using retin a at night and use an AHA in the AM, I really want to start using CPS but I'm unsure of where in my regime to add them, can they be used before the AHA/BHA? Is there anyone using all 3 and how do you fit them into your routines? Would I have to alternate the days I use the AHA/BHA with the days I use the CPS?

I also really want to add a C serum to that as well, I've read that vit C serum can be used before retin a if you leave time between applying the two products?

TIA

free skin care · Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:37 pm

Angelofthenorth

I use a C serum first thing in morning before any other products, it needs to be applied first so it can absorb into the skin. Then I use AHA
product.

You can use CPS after retin A at night but wait 30 minutes. As for AHA/BHA these would be used in the AM. I've yet to include CPS into my skin routine as I haven't really found any scientific research to support if it really makes any improvement. The jury is still out on that issue for me!

You may need to decide if you really both a AHA and BHA product? perhaps just chose one. AHA is better suited to drier skin BHA for oiler and problem skin.

free skin care · Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:22 pm

I use CPs in the AM and Retin A in the PM but only three times per week. On off nights I use LacSal (acids)n from Skin Biology to get rid of the flakes.

I, too, am trying to figure out where to use Vitamin C so I think we both need to visit SkinBiology's forum because I'm sure it's posted there.

free skin care · Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:07 am

Thanks for the replies Smile

I was under the impression that AHA work on the surface to help slough off dead skin cells and BHA works at a slightly deeper level helping to dissolve and prevent blackheads and congestion? This is the reason I decided I wanted to use a serum that that contained both AHA and BHA as I really do feel I need both. My skin gets so easily congested and looks it's best with constant exfoliating.

I want to really work on the eveness of my skin texture, which is why I want to introduce CPS into my routine (I have a few box scars and ice pick scars). The retin a helps with the whiteheads and reduce the affects of my PIH, but it does nothing for the blackheads. When using an AHA on it's own it's like I need something that penetrates my pores beneath the surface to combat my blackhead problem, obagi really helped with my blackheads, I just can't seem to prevent new ones from coming or my skin from getting congested and I also really feel like I can benefit from a vitamin C serum.

If I can use the CPS after the retin a, I'm thinking c serum with an AHA/BHA in the AM and retin a followed by CPS for PM? I've read somewhere that if using a C serum in the AM, it can be inactivated by exposure to the sun. Would ss be enough protection against this happening?

I know it sounds like overkill, but I genuinely feel as though I need all of it, I just need to figure out a way of doing it so that I get all of the benefits without stressing out my skin Confused

free skin care · Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:31 pm

angleofthenorth - that sounds like a lot of exfoliating products for you. are you using the retin A at the moment? your skin needs to adjust to that product and it wouldn't be a good idea to introduce too many different products at the same time - it would be an onslought to your skin.

I am currently using Retin A (micro), an AHA or BHA (occasionally) and CPs. I will use Vit C once in a while - usually before a big roll. But I find the CPs do a better job for me than the Vit C does, so I prefer them. (and they do offer studies on CPs, fongflyer5 Wink

)

Skin Bio actually offers a combo AHA/BHA in their LacSal (Lactic Acid, Salicylic Acid). If you have oily skin - look into the serum version of this.

I found something recently that has really helped my congested skin - but adding it to all these products you want to use will add more to the onslaught, so you will need to proceed w/ caution using it in the beginning.

I bought a Clairsonic brush about a month ago and it has really helped to get rid of blackheads and clogged pores and keep them away. Using this w/ Retin A has helped to keep my skin the smoothest it has been in ages. BUT, I did go through a rough introduction w/ the Clairsonic and irritated my skin quite a bit in the first few weeks, so dont' go crazy yourself if you try this.

For the order of application in the topicals you've mentioned, I would use the CPs before Retin A. If you suffer from blackheads and clogged pores, you will want to use the serums of CPs and a serum should get applied before a cream or a gel (Retin A). Let the CPs soak in about 10 minutes. You may try the Retin A first, too. I use to do that and had really good results. I let it sit about 45 minutes before the CPs though.

And, yes, use a good sunscreen over your Vit C. Vit C always needs a SS since it doesn't offer sun protection itself. It's just an anti-oxidant and is a good addition to a SS. I would use the exfoliant BEFORE the vit C though.

free skin care · Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:14 pm

Thank you for your response foxe, I am using retin a 0.05% strength, I started using it in May and my skin seems to have adapted well to it, I don't peel any more, just the odd flake here and there.

I've seen the lacsal and was actually considering getting this for treating skin on other parts of my body, but I'm not that keen on some of the ingredients as I'm trying to use natural and organic products where possible so I'm not too sure about this for my face.

I have a clarisonic pro, I've been using it once a day (PM) at normal speed for 2 mins since the beginning of June, I love using this gadget, but it hasn't really done anything for my blackheads.

It was the CP serum I'm referring to, I really try to avoid creams where possible but the retin a I use is a cream. Just to clarify, I can use the CPS before or after the retin a?

Quote:

And, yes, use a good sunscreen over your Vit C. Vit C always needs a SS since it doesn't offer sun protection itself. It's just an anti-oxidant and is a good addition to a SS. I would use the exfoliant BEFORE the vit C though.

Would you do this because the vit c would penetrate better after exfoliation?

free skin care · Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:43 pm

I always thought that Vit C should be applied on dry skin. For example, according to Obagi protocol, Vit C should be applied before Exfoderm.

Regarding the studies on CPs, as far as I remember, the research only confirms the effectiveness of Copper Tripeptide-1 (GHK-Cu) which is in the GHK Serum/cream and Skin Signals cream. The hydrolyzed soy protein and copper chloride combo that Dr. Pickart uses in P&R creams and CP Serums is a mysterious compound that only he knows how it works. Sorry, a little bit off topic.

foxe wrote:

And, yes, use a good sunscreen over your Vit C. Vit C always needs a SS since it doesn't offer sun protection itself. It's just an anti-oxidant and is a good addition to a SS. I would use the exfoliant BEFORE the vit C though.

free skin care · Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:46 pm

I know it seems like a lot of exfoliation but I really do feel it is necessary and I don't have any adverse affects from doing this.
I am very careful about introducing new products and only ever add one new thing at a time, I also like to wait a few weeks between new additions so, I am actually a little way from being able to add the CPS and the vit C serum, I'm just doing my research. Smile

I

The AHA/BHA combo I'm thinking of is the one below:

http://www.annabellina.com/ssabexfoliant.html

free skin care · Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:41 pm

angelofthenorth wrote:

It was the CP serum I'm referring to, I really try to avoid creams where possible but the retin a I use is a cream. Just to clarify, I can use the CPS before or after the retin a?

Quote:

And, yes, use a good sunscreen over your Vit C. Vit C always needs a SS since it doesn't offer sun protection itself. It's just an anti-oxidant and is a good addition to a SS. I would use the exfoliant BEFORE the vit C though.

Would you do this because the vit c would penetrate better after exfoliation?

I've used CPs both before and after Retin A. you may have to experiment to see which one works best for you. Just make sure you let one or the other absorb good before applying something on top. The Retin A should sit alone about 30-40 minutes and a serum (CP Serum) doesn't need as long since serums absorb faster.

With the Vit C and an exfoliant. They are both low in pH, so with them, I would again see how you like it trying one before the other. It's a good idea about letting the Vit C sit on clean skin, but the exfoliation product would open pores and remove dead skin to make thing absorb better - kinda hard to decide here isn't it?

free skin care · Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:47 am

It is difficult to decide which products I will use first in the AM and PM, I will just have to play around with it and see what works best for me as foxe suggests.

I do think it would be a good idea to use the AHA/BHA for 3-4 days a week, I'm hoping that the combination of the 2 will work much better for me than the AHA alone and I will be able to use it for less days. I can also look at doing the same with the CPS, this would make the retin a vit C serum the only products that I will be using daily.

Thanks again for the replies Smile

free skin care · Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:59 am

My skin care program is almost identical to foxe's; I also use Retin A in the AM, CP's in the PM and occasional C serum & AHA/BHA usage.

I have been using Clarisonic cleansing brush for about 2 yrs now (AM & PM) and foxe is right, it really helps exfoliate and keep pores clear. The AHA/BHA serum that I use is from ifeelpretty products. I use the 5%/10% Serum (my skin is pretty tough and can handle this with no problems - probably not for everyone). I use Vit C serum about 5 days out of the week. I apply C Serum and let dry for about 15-20 Min's before applying Retin A, moisturizer and sunscreen. In the PM, I apply AHA/BHA after cleansing and wait about 30 minutes before applying CP's and moisturizer.

free skin care · Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:18 am

fairlady: I really liked the look of the IFP AHA/BHA but they no longer ship overseas Sad

You are using all the products I want to have in my routine and seem to be doing well with it so that gives me a little hope that it can be done. Smile

I wasn't aware you could use retin a in the AM, I thought it was supposed to be used in the PM and that you should avoid contact with the sun? I don't know that I would feel comfortable using the retin a in the morning.

Everyone seems to do something different when it comes to when and how they apply certain products, it's really interesting to learn what others are doing.

free skin care · Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:10 pm

Retin A Micro is the only retinoid that *can* be used in the AM. Sunlight will degrade vitamin A, so it is thought (since most retinoids are a form of vitamin A) that Retin A should only be used at night.

But - Retin A Micro is micro-encapsulated (coated) to let it be absorbed slowly and with less irritation. The coating supposedly helps 'protect' it from the sunlight, so it can be used in the AM. At least, this is what I gathered from my discussion with my dermatologist.

This theory of not using vitamin A products in the daylight also applies to retinols, as they are a weaker form of vitamin A than retinoids like Retin A, Tazorac, etc.

free skin care · Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:44 pm

angelofthenorth - sorry, I should have specified but I also use Retin A Micro and my dermatologist told me it was alright to apply in the AM (I always put 45SPF sunscreen over it as well).

Too bad about IFP not shipping overseas Crying or Very sad

this is the best AHA/BHA that I have found to date.

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