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Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:41 pm |
Hi all,
This is my first post here, brought on by yet another freak out from looking in the mirror at my increasingly wrinkly and crepey under eye area.
I've only just turned 35 and over the last couple of years have noticed how bad this area has gotten. I've always suffered from sunken tear troughs and thin skin in this area but lately it's started getting very wrinkly and really aging my face.
I've tried various creams (mainly just moisturising ones) and oils (vitamin E and avacado oils) but nothing is helping - in fact it really does seem to be getting worse fast. So I'm wondering what has helped other people in this area.
I keep reading about Retin-a and copper peptides but don't know if this has produced any really noticeable results and if it's safe to use in the eye area.
My skin otherwise is in really good condition, no other lines and quite plump. But my eye area is really getting me down, it sounds silly but I can barely look in the mirror anymore, if I do I get really depressed.
Really appreciate any honest advice and suggestions. Thanks so much in advance. |
_________________ 35, brunette, fair skin. Addressing under eye fine lines, tear troughs and slight cheek sagging. Renova .025 3x a week, HA cream, Emu oil and SPF30 |
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Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:32 am |
I dont think using Retin-A right under your eye area is a good idea as you dont know how your skin will react - for me and many others Retin-A can cause dryness and excessive exfoliation leaving the skin very red and tender. I've actually had Retin-A accidentally spread to my undereye area and it wasn't pretty - the skin peeled and for days it looked the skin of a 100 year old! lol but it sounds like this area for you could use the help of products containing Retinols which are a weaker version of Vitamin A.
I'm a big fan of Osmosis skincare and I make no secret of that, I have been using it for 2.5 years - so I will suggest trying the Osmosis Eye Repair Serum - Refresh PM - it contains a bunch of great ingredients including: Niacinamide, Beta Clucan, Q10, Trans Retinal (Retinol) GHK Copper Peptides, R-Lipoic Acid - to name a few. I use this morning and night and secret is to just using a tiny dab of it and pat it right around your eye, undereye and I even pat it over my eyelids. I'm 40 and I have zero eye wrinkles, no crepey skin and my eyelids have not sagged and I dont have crow's feet -- I will use this line FOREVER! |
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Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:30 am |
Many here do use retin-a around the eye's. If you want to try it I would suggest getting the lowest % and buffer or mix with a basic moisturizer. And remember the eye area especially seems to look worse before it get better and it will take several months. |
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Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:58 am |
You've already received some good advice (which I heartily agree with) & will probably get a lot more, but I'll just throw this out there. These certainly won't solve all your problems, but they're cheap & easy, and I really believe they help protect & condition the skin around my eyes a lot.
The first is castor oil. I find it extremly drying if I use too much in ocm mixes, but for some reason when I use it directly on my eyes/lashes/brows, its like a magic moisturizer which leaves both the skin & the hair moisturized, plump & conditioned!
The next is vitamin k in the form of gelatin - just a half ml mixed with a teaspoon or less of boiling water. Not too sure of the measurements but you just want a slightly slimey but still very watery (this is important!) consistency. You can just dab it on or soak little pieces of paper facial masks, or cotton to apply to undereyes & relax for 20 min. Do not wait til it dries completely though! I do this on days when I haven't slept enough and it really helps remove darkness and make the skin come to life.
Maybe these will provide a little help while you're looking for a more robust solution. (I'm thinking that if you're careful retin-A might be it.) Good luck! |
_________________ Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds. |
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:40 am |
Thanks everyone for the advice, really appreciate it.
I've just ordered some RoC Retinol correxion eye cream from eBay which I was going to give a go first as Glamcat suggested. I've a feeling my eye area is a bit sensitive so thought I'd start off very slow. Pretty scared about some of the things I've read about Retin A and what it can do to the eye area.
I'm wondering if there's anyone else out there who was in a similar position to me and used Retin A successfully. I guess I'm just hoping there's something I can do about it or at least slow it down.
Obviously I'm slapping on the spf30 under my eyes (to my shame I've not done this enough in the past) but will have a look at all your suggestions too.
Thanks again everyone, you've made me feel really welcome here |
_________________ 35, brunette, fair skin. Addressing under eye fine lines, tear troughs and slight cheek sagging. Renova .025 3x a week, HA cream, Emu oil and SPF30 |
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:41 am |
Hi Verity I hope we've helped and that's awesome you feel welcomed! Skincare can be a very daunting area as there is soooo much to choose from and it really is a matter of trial and error to find what is right for you because everyone's skin is different and what works for one may not work for another.
I sometimes buy my Osmosis skincare on ebay as it can be really difficult to source the products here in Australia and if a supplier runs out it seems to take a while for them to get more stock - and the ebay prices are nice and competitive (cheap! lol )
In general I can say that the Osmosis products are very effective and do what they say - if you have a good read thru EDS there are a lot of great reviews.
Good luck! x |
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:45 am |
oops I forgot to add some blurb about Retin-A:
I've been using Retin-A on and off for about 13 years - it's great stuff, I always have some in my bathroom. I have to be really careful in how I use it as I have super sensitive skin and can get a lot of peeling and shredding from it but it's not too bad if I buffer it by mixing with moisturiser - the peel effect reveals smoother skin but then you must be strict with SPF as this fresh skin is very prone to sun damage.
My advice with Retin-A is to start of slow and see what your tolerance is an increase accordingly. |
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Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:21 pm |
Hi, Verity- I am in the same boat as you although just turned 32. In fact, I was getting so bummed about my eye area/tear troughs/dark cricles that I recently have taken a week break from looking in the mirror!)(How crazy does that sound!) I am visiting family in the country and on a break from work, so I can get away with this. The break from being overly critical has been nice.
As for what I am trying, my skin is too sensitive for retinol (and personally not sure how I feel about "thinning" my skin more...), but I might try Copper soon. The Osmosis products do sound interesing.
For now, I am mainly trying facial exercises, specifically Carolyn's facial fitness program. She insists that the eye exercises will help thin skin and tear troughs. I have only been doing them for a month (it takes 3 months to really see results, so I am told), and I havent looked in the mirror for a while but I do think my skin "feels" better.
Keep us posted on what works for you. In case it helps, just a few days ago I went to a plastic surgeon in Minneapolis about my eye area-- I wanted to know what he would do for my tear troughs and dark circles, and he told me that I had beautfiful skin and should just get some good makeup. So maybe we are too hard on ourselves.... |
_________________ Almost 40! with sensitive/responsive skin, using facial exercises very lightly. Derminator or prof micropen just a few times a year. AQ eye serum (great for lash growth too) on occasion. Otherwise natural skin care products. |
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Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:29 am |
Thanks for your post Jen. Your story sounds so familiar, the first time I really noticed my eye area was three years ago and my obsession has just got worse and worse.
I now really struggle to look in the mirror - most of the time I avoid it or risk getting really depressed. I'm beginning to avoid going out so I don't risk catching a glimpse of my reflection. Worst of all I'm driving my partner up the wall, he's been great but there's only so much I can put him through.
I could believe that I had body dysmorphia but I know there is a problem there, I stupidly posted a photo on a plastic surgery website (the worst photo I could find - it did look dreadful) and a couple of surgeons suggested lower eyelid surgery.... at 35!! I felt awful after that.
A lot of people have told me I look young for my age (and bless my friends - they say they can't really see the problem and that it's just normal aging) but I just don't believe them and keep thinking this eye area is going to get so bad I'm going to look 10 years older soon.
Anyway sorry for turning this into a therapy session!
So Jen it does sound like you might have mild body dysmorphia, certainly if a plastic surgeon (who has nothing to benefit in telling you you look great!) is saying your skin is fine then it doesn't sound like the problem is as bad as you think. Maybe have a read up on BDD - I'm reading a great book called 'The Broken Mirror: Understanding and Treating Body Dysmorphic Disorder'. Like I say I don't believe I have true BDD as I do have a defect but a lot of the symptoms are the same.
Also for your dark circles I can recommend la Prairie - Light Fantastic Cellular Concealing Brightening Eye Treatment. I use it all the time, and it really does help to brighten up this area. It cost me £40 over a year ago and I've still not gotten through the first stick (it comes in a pack of two).
I'll of course keep everyone posted about my experience with Retin A, like I said I'll be starting on retinol first to see if I can handle that so may be a while.
Thanks again everyone |
_________________ 35, brunette, fair skin. Addressing under eye fine lines, tear troughs and slight cheek sagging. Renova .025 3x a week, HA cream, Emu oil and SPF30 |
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Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:30 am |
Thank you for the makeup suggestion! I will look into it. I am also checking out Laura Mercier. And I will check into that book-- I am sure there is something to that in this. I havent told my boyfriend, but my parents have certainly heard enough!
I should add that the plastic surgeon did say that I have a tear trough deformity and that I was quite young to be having it, and said really the only thing I could do was to use fillers in the area or have a fat transfer done. I could also try a Blue peel.
He ended the conversation by saying that all of those options carried risk, and at my age would be best served by reminding myself that overall I have beautiful skin and getting some good makeup.
soo, yes, there is something going on in my eye area, but I am sure I see it more than most people do. Best of luck to you verity with the retinol. Let us know how it works!
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_________________ Almost 40! with sensitive/responsive skin, using facial exercises very lightly. Derminator or prof micropen just a few times a year. AQ eye serum (great for lash growth too) on occasion. Otherwise natural skin care products. |
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Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:30 am |
I dont think it would be a good idea to use Retin-A under the eyes if the skin there is very thin (thinner than whats normal for the skin under the eyes) as Retin-A works to exfoliate the skin, it will make it thinner before it get's thicer as the sin needs time to build the new collagen making for thicker skin.
You could however use an OTC product containing retinol that wont be as strong, meaning it will most likely give you some of the same benefits whilst eliminating other risks of possible skin reactions. |
_________________ AGE: 25. Some laxity, fine lines, rosacea, and crepey skin. USING: Tripollar STOP, Lightstim, Slendertone Face, Microcurrent Wand, Almighty Ultrasound Device, Olay Cleansing Brush, Neck Line Slimmer. Retin-A, MUAC peels, and taking beauty supplements. Botox eyebrow lift and HG lip products are Too Faced. |
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Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:24 pm |
Hi Verity and Jen
I was really touched to read your posts on here and can truely empathise with you both and really do feel for you.
I have had issues with how i look since a child. Always called myself ugly because i have a big nose. I was bullied throughout school because of it. People may ask why ive never had a nose job...... That would be my ideal dream but im absolutely petrified (plus cant afford one) that it should go wrong and i look even more uglier and i am the most squeamish of them all. I could have an operation on my feet or that end of the body but my face. well it just seems more squeamish to me if that makes sense. I can only describe it like my phobia of vomiting. When people are ill i ask over and over again it it were a sick bug opening myself up to the prospect of going into complete panic and fear that they end up saying it was a sick bug when thats hte last thing i need to hear. I guess not having my nose done is a bit like that if you can follow that. Anyway i jI have been diagnosed with body dysmorphic. It makes me lead a very lonely and sad life. i do alot of avoidances.... looking in mirrors, i cant walk anywhere as i feel people see me more so i have to drive everywhere even to work which would only take me about 15 mins max towalk. I really do know how you both feel. I would give anything in the world to look in the mirror and think i looked at least average. Now its gotten worse as i not only label myself ugly but ive bought old looking into the equation and with my eyes being so wrinkly, crepy and a bit baggy i hate it my face all the more. I cant imagine anyone ever wanting to love me for who i am and that saddens me to know i will always be alone in life. I have been doing a group Cognitive behavioural therapy but not really getting on so well in a group and hope to do a one to one. I do think if this treatment had been available years ago i may have come out the other side but i cant ever imagine being able to look in the mirror properly or rather look at my face as a whole rather than the little bits i look at at a time. I do hope you both can get some help with this and that you can lead a normal life. lots of love to you both
Sally xxx |
_________________ Sally |
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Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:30 am |
Hi
I was thinking on starting retin a but am now wondering about copper peptides. My concerns are crepey under eyes, crows feet and eye bags that are really truely getting me down that i want to hide away even more from the world and even myself i cant face
I would also like to improve the sking on my fac overall. just wondered if Copper Peptides may be a better way to go than retin A or is there something else. I am on a bit of a budget aslive alone so money is tight but im so desperate i will pay more than i have to now
Can anyone help with this please |
_________________ Sally |
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:23 pm |
Retin A is supposed to be a collagen builder and not just an exfoliant. I was already using LacSal as an exfoliant, in addition to Clarisonic every night and CPs in the morning. My derm said I was missing a collagen builder and recommended retin A. It thickens the skin, not thins it.
Salster I am sending you a PM regarding your emotional problems. |
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Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:40 pm |
I use Retin-A Micro 0.04 (which I think is the lowest dose?) on my face and under my eyes. I find that it has an immediate plumping effect, strangely enough. I also make sure to moisturize well the next morning.
Have never had peeling or redness around the eye area. It would certainly cause me to proceed more cautiously, but it is a great product and recommend that you try to incorporate into your skin care routine.
Copper peptides have not agreed with me, unfortunately. I try them from time to time at a very low dose, but it still upsets my skin. It seems like a great topical for some people and I will probably revisit it at a later time.
Do pay attention to how your skin is reacting to any new product and go slowly.
Good luck! |
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Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:19 am |
Hi Soft skin and Tea
Thank you for the information re Retin A. I am looking at ordering a low strength and the next one upand intend to start off slowly slowly..... maybe use once every 3 -4 nights for a couple of weeks and then every two nights etc. As i am looking at an eye cream also to help with firming the eye area above and definately underneath do you have any suggestions as to a good moisturing / hydrating and firming cream for the eye and would i put this on my eye area after the retin a at night
Many thanks
Sally xxx |
_________________ Sally |
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:56 am |
Sally - I'm really sorry to hear you're going through some tough times. I know how you feel as I'm sure many others do, I can offer some advice but feel slighly hypocritical as I'm unable to take a lot of it myself!
What I've learnt from reading 'The Broken Mirror: Understanding and Treating Body Dysmorphic Disorder' and speaking to my counsellor is that BDD (or general obsessive thoughts about physical appearance) responds best to serotonin reuptake inhibitors and CBT. The case studies in the book showed that the author's patients did one or the other and in some cases both, and the success rates were high. Some were cured completely! Apparently SSRIs are really good at stopping the obsessive thoughts and fixations, and once we stop obsessing the problems don't look half as bad. CBT is good at retraining our thoughts and weaning ourselves off reassurance seeking actions (mirror checking, asking others for reassurance) which only end up feeding the obsession more. One of the exercises in the book is to list all the things you do which only seek to reinforce the problem (ie not going out, driving to work instead of walking, comparing yourself to others) and number then in terms of which would be the most difficult to give up or stop doing (10) to the easiest (1) and then start to remove them from your routines.
Sounds easy when written down but it's something I'm going to start doing this week. Mine range from going online to look at other people my age (to see if they have the same signs of aging) right up to my trickiest to stop and that's mirror avoidance. I'm going to give this a try though and I'll let you know how I get on.
It's really no wonder though that at lot of us women feel this way though when you consider that our culture is constantly telling us that we're not allowed to show signs of aging. Magazines with airbrushed women and critisising and even circling defects on celebrities. Rather worryingly these super-critical articles are often written by other women! This is not a new topic I know and western culture has been this way to some extent for years, and maybe I'm only noticing now because of my age, but I can't help feeling that it's getting ridiculous. In the UK we hardly have any women over the age of 50 on our TV screens, and elderly people in general are hidden away and treated without respect. It's therefore not surprising that a lot of us see aging as a big worry.
Sorry I've gone slightly off topic! Sally you mustn't feel hopeless about your situation, perhaps go and visit a counsellor for a one on one session - i know it's not cheap but it might be what you need to get you on a good path out of this. And in terms of skincare we can only do our best and look after ourselves. I feel that from coming on here I've learnt tons and at least feel in control of that now.
good luck
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_________________ 35, brunette, fair skin. Addressing under eye fine lines, tear troughs and slight cheek sagging. Renova .025 3x a week, HA cream, Emu oil and SPF30 |
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:19 am |
Hi all -
I just wanted to do a separate post about where I am with the skincare.
I've now been using RoC Retinol correxion eye cream for a couple of weeks - starting off every other night to now using both morning and night. I had a bit off itching under my left eye at the start but not sure if this was due to the retinol. Anyway I seem to be tolerating it fine now. I can't say I've noticed a particular improvement under my eyes but then from what I've read retinols are pretty weak and this was more just a tolerance building exercise.
I'm now going to order some Renova 0.2 cream and work my way up slowly from there. Probably starting once or twice a week as I'm pretty paranoid about some of the reactions people have had. It looks like Medsmex sells this so I'll probably order from there.
I've also ordered some Derma E - Pycnogenol Hyaluronic Acid Eye Creme for the nights I'm not using Renova (I've used this before and found it really moisturising and great for nighttime), on the rest of my face I use Ponds Rejuveness (a nice simple moisturiser). In the mornings I'm putting on Clarins SPF30 wrinkle control for eyes, and the rest of face I use Estee Lauder SPF15 Ultra Firming Creme for when I'm mainly indoors (a SPF30 for outdoors).
I feel like I'm gradually getting a good routine together and am really happy with the products I'm using so far. I'll keep you updated with how the Renova use goes.
Thanks everyone |
_________________ 35, brunette, fair skin. Addressing under eye fine lines, tear troughs and slight cheek sagging. Renova .025 3x a week, HA cream, Emu oil and SPF30 |
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Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:11 am |
I tried Retin-A for under my eyes. I saw no improvements. It transformed the rest of my skin quality, but not in this area. It didn't get any worse or anything, it was just a waste of time. |
_________________ Late 30's, fair skin, dark hair. Retin A, DIY potions. Missions completed- acne, acne scarring, 11's, redness, contact dermatitis. Working on maintenence and cellulite. |
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Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:01 pm |
^ Me too. I don't really have any real problems under my eyes. I do have some red/purple discolorations in the outer corners where my smile lines crinkle & tears may sometimes collect (& where I may brush them away too harshly at times). The tretinoin might have helped improve its colour & condition a touch, but I can't be sure.
I'll keep applying it there, since it doesn't seem to be hurting. And what else am I going to do?
p.s. I experienced absolutely no redness or irritation in the eye area from it. I did, however, on my chin & cheeks during the first few weeks of use. Funny that! |
_________________ Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds. |
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Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:57 am |
Hi all,
It's been a little while since I posted on this topic, not much to report back on yet but thought I'd just let you know how it was going.
I bought some generic Renova 0.25 (Retacnyl) from Medsmex and have been using it every third night for a few weeks. I haven't noticed any positive effect yet (but then of course that'd be far too early!) I have noticed some faint creping around the corner of my eyes though that wasn't there before, I hope that's just a response to the Renova and not another area of aging to get worried about! Has anyone else noticed this reaction after such a short period of using Renova?
I also bought some emu oil to put on about half an hour after Renova. I use an HA cream in the mornings and on the nights off.
I'm going to start upping the usage to alternate nights next week and see how that goes. Hopefully the crepiness won't get worse! |
_________________ 35, brunette, fair skin. Addressing under eye fine lines, tear troughs and slight cheek sagging. Renova .025 3x a week, HA cream, Emu oil and SPF30 |
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Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:30 pm |
Someone else posted in Another thread about placing Vaseline under the eye area to prevent transepidemal water loss. Now I'm no devotee of mineral oil and paraffin, but if you have creepiness it's likely to be a hydration issue rather than an aging issue. Perhaps after applying your eye cream, this will help to lock I'm the moisture rather than have it evaporating off. |
_________________ 40, fine porcelain skin, tendency to pigmentation no other issues. Rosehip oil is the cornerstone of my skin care. |
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Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:03 am |
The crepiness is most likely a result of the Retin-A drying out the skin, sucking it's water out of it and therefore taking it's hydration away, the skin gets crepey when there is a problem with hydration. You should start applying a hydrating serum twenty minutes prior to Retin-A. |
_________________ AGE: 25. Some laxity, fine lines, rosacea, and crepey skin. USING: Tripollar STOP, Lightstim, Slendertone Face, Microcurrent Wand, Almighty Ultrasound Device, Olay Cleansing Brush, Neck Line Slimmer. Retin-A, MUAC peels, and taking beauty supplements. Botox eyebrow lift and HG lip products are Too Faced. |
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Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:37 am |
I've been putting retin a under my eye just where I can feel the eye socket. I hope its ok before I could only see the lines round the side of my eyes like smile lines but lately I have noticed a few criss cross lines under my eyes hope this is how its supposed to go and they will get better |
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Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:27 pm |
I like a combination of hyaluronic acid and collagen 1 & 3 supplementation. HA holds water in the skin and has side benefits for eye and joint health. Collagen starts leaving our bodies in our mid twenties, leading to sagging and wrinkles. You should be able to see in a month to six weeks if this is what you are missing. I get Neocell brand for both of these. My skin looks plumped out and radiant, feels firm, under eye smoothed out. |
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