Age is showing on your jowl or chin area? What to do?
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free skin care · Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:31 am

There is this women I see daily on my way to work who show a lot of age below her lower lip. I've read in New Beauty magazine that generally caucasian women tend to show age in the jowl area.
How do you prevent that area to show so much aging. The only think I can think of is using vitamin C serum and sunscreen, but is there anything else we can do? That area usually get congested on my and I do a lot of exfoliation in that area. It's frustrating that area is always targeted and when sweating from working out, it all sit in that area. I know that this is not good.

free skin care · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:27 pm

Skincare wrote:

There is this women I see daily on my way to work who show a lot of age below her lower lip. I've read in New Beauty magazine that generally caucasian women tend to show age in the jowl area.
How do you prevent that area to show so much aging. The only think I can think of is using vitamin C serum and sunscreen, but is there anything else we can do? That area usually get congested on my and I do a lot of exfoliation in that area. It's frustrating that area is always targeted and when sweating from working out, it all sit in that area. I know that this is not good.

Hi Skincare I don't know if you're open to face exercises, but I do know they can help with the sagging that shows around the chin. There are some exercises you can find for free online. Eva Fraser has one under the diagram on this page.

Tom Hagerty too has a short program that also has a chin workout. I'd recommend doing Tom's entire workout though. I don't believe in spot training and since his entire program is available for free...

free skin care · Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:29 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Skincare wrote:

There is this women I see daily on my way to work who show a lot of age below her lower lip. I've read in New Beauty magazine that generally caucasian women tend to show age in the jowl area.
How do you prevent that area to show so much aging. The only think I can think of is using vitamin C serum and sunscreen, but is there anything else we can do? That area usually get congested on my and I do a lot of exfoliation in that area. It's frustrating that area is always targeted and when sweating from working out, it all sit in that area. I know that this is not good.

Hi Skincare I don't know if you're open to face exercises, but I do know they can help with the sagging that shows around the chin. There are some exercises you can find for free online. Eva Fraser has one under the diagram on this page.

Tom Hagerty too has a short program that also has a chin workout. I'd recommend doing Tom's entire workout though. I don't believe in spot training and since his entire program is available for free...

Doesn't DermaWand have the same affect?

free skin care · Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:27 pm

Skincare wrote:

Doesn't DermaWand have the same affect?

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the DermaWand, but hopefully someone who does can help. I seem to recall seeing discussions on it. Maybe it was in the Skincare forum or the DIY forum. Sorry I couldn't be anymore help.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:37 am

Facial exercises will only stretch the face out more! Do you really want that?

Its a losing battle. There is no facial cream, lotion or serum that will LIFT skin up either.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:37 am

I am only to familiar with this skin issue. I have jowels and am only twenty five. There have been quite a few things that have helped them but not actually completely gotten rid of them.

I reccomend the STOP to help with Jowels, the Face Master really helped sculpt my chin (but it's been thrown in the trash to the heinous things it did to my cheeks Embarassed

), DIY formulations can help quite a bit, and of course there is also LED light treatment. I also recently tried carboxytherapy but will have to wait to see the results.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:44 am

Jowls are generally just fat. My co-worker, in her fifties, lost weight and they disappeared. She does have slightly slack skin, though, which is noticeable when she puts her head down. However, she used to be a model and stands and sits up very straight with her chin up so it is rarely noticeable.

Otherwise, a facelift is the answer.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:00 am

Oops I forgot to mention, I purchased the Rio RF device to help spot treat the fat in those areas. Will update with the results.

In the meantime you might like to head over to the POSE experiment thread.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:35 pm

SusieQ wrote:

Facial exercises will only stretch the face out more! Do you really want that?
Its a losing battle. There is no facial cream, lotion or serum that will LIFT skin up either.

With all due respect SusieQ, that's not true at all. Many people who do face exercises do not have stretched out faces. I most certainly don't and I've done them for over 20 years. I don't know if you can dismiss creams/serums either because there are many people on SkinBio who swear by them. Some combine both face exercises and creams and show great results.

Examples of beautiful chin/jawlines in people that do face exercises can be seen in the photos at these links:

Cathy's chin area looks better after face exercises. Her mouth corners are no longer turned down.

Kate's jawline has improved and so you can actually see contouring of the jaw when before it was a blur

Vikki's chin and jowl area looks better, not stretched, after face exercises, Her jowlshave lifted and her mouth corners no longer show that downward crease

Maria's jaw has lifted so that the skin appears tighter against her jaw bone, and her mouth corners which had a hint of pointing down are no longer doing so

Kay's chin and mouth area improved from face exercises and no longer seem to be responding to the call of gravity

The slideshow on Judith Olivia's site shows some improved jawlines/chins thanks to face exercises

And if you're thinking that it gets worse over time and that the time differences between before/after in those^^ photos are too short to prove anything, here are my photos:

My chin when I was in my 20's:

My chin when I was in my 30's:

My chin now that I'm in my 40's:

Then you can look at the instructors themselves whose jawline/chins do not look stretched by any stretch of the imagination (pun intended LOL) and they too have done face exercises for long:

Judith, Tom, Deb, Carolyn, Eva, Carole, Loulou, etc

I don't know what you've tried so far, SusieQ but I have suggested the exercise shown on the clip on Eva's website to a few people and they have reported back that they not only felt the exercise working but think they see a difference. And while I am clueless when it comes to cosmetics, I hope someone who has had some success with topicals (like copper peptides) can share some encouraging info. It makes me sad that you seem to have lost all hope where chins are concerned. Crying or Very sad

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:11 pm

Oh no. I have never used facial exercises. I looked at some of the photos at random.

The lighting was not the same in the B&Aa, camera angles were not the same either and some of the pictures did look nice, but was probably due to a good moisturizer. So I am skeptical about the whole thing.

I still think that facial exercises provide little or no benefit because the loss of muscle tone is not a major cause of wrinkles or sagging skin. You have to think about loss of collagen, sun damage, genetic aging, gravity etc. I really think it does skin more harm than good. Thanks for the pictures though.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:44 pm

SusieQ wrote:

Oh no. I have never used facial exercises. I looked at some of the photos at random.

The lighting was not the same in the B&Aa, camera angles were not the same either and some of the pictures did look nice, but was probably due to a good moisturizer. So I am skeptical about the whole thing.

I still think that facial exercises provide little or no benefit because the loss of muscle tone is not a major cause of wrinkles or sagging skin. You have to think about loss of collagen, sun damage, genetic aging, gravity etc. I really think it does skin more harm than good. Thanks for the pictures though.

Lack of tone is precisely the cause for sag. Even black people who may not wrinkle easily will have sag because of muscle atrophy, as do people who freeze their muscles with Botox. Gravity continues its pull on them and they eventually sag. Some wrinkles are caused by repeated gestures, but face exercises iron those out by engaging other muscles that usually don't get used but which are attached to the ones that keep making the same folds so that the creases are ironed out. It is how Robert went from looking like his daddy to looking like his son.

Face exercises seem to stimulate collagen production as do copper peptides. In fact, if face exercises scare you, then perhaps scientific explanation of how copper peptides work as well as information on research done in age reversal by Dr Pickart might open your mind to the fact that going under the knife isn't the only option. The links on this page are eye-opening: http://www.reverseskinaging.com/skin.html

But if you still think it's all BS, I guess then to you it is.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:25 pm

I don't deny copper is good for skin and is very good for healing wounds. There is written documentation all over the place. I think its best to use as many antioxidants as one can find in a product. The more the better. There are some great products out there.

free skin care · Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:03 pm

Wow Nonie...you are aging beautifully...whatever you are doing, keep doing it!!

I started to notice the skin between my neck and chin (underneath my chin) starting to slacken a bit this year and started zapping it with my Palo Via. I'm pretty amazed how quickly it tightened up. My DH had me start zapping his...now that's saying something Razz

free skin care · Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:56 am

Wow! You look good Nonie!

My face is very round, so I want to make sure I do everything I can to prevent sagging as much as possible.

free skin care · Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:21 am

I agree. Nonie, your success is very inspiring!

free skin care · Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:36 pm

SusieQ wrote:

Facial exercises will only stretch the face out more! Do you really want that?

Its a losing battle. There is no facial cream, lotion or serum that will LIFT skin up either.
I still think that facial exercises provide little or no benefit because the loss of muscle tone is not a major cause of wrinkles or sagging skin. You have to think about loss of collagen, sun damage, genetic aging, gravity etc. I really think it does skin more harm than good. Thanks for the pictures though.

Exercise science does not support your position. What is proven is that a sedentary lifestyle and/ or inappropriately targeted exercise does more harm than good. There is published research showing that physical activity can slow, halt or even reverse the ageing process! The skin is an organ just like the heart and lungs; the face musculature has the same basic structure and function as any other skeletal muscle. Cosmetic science doesn't support your theory either. The fact that Botox is effective indicates a direct relationship between muscle tone and visible wrinkles. Artificial fillers or implants give much the same effect as muscle hypertrophy would to plump up less elastic skin.

You are correct that even strong muscles cannot support excess fat or skin, the sort that is usually created by sudden weight gain or loss (e.g. pregnancy/ gastric bypass). But the age-related changes we are discussing here are not sudden. Think of it this way: if exercising stretched the skin, athletes and dancers would need total body lifts. In fact the main reason for a flat, saggy backside is atrophy of the glute muscles. That is not an inevitable part of ageing process, it's an inevitable consequence of spending far too much time sat down. Sad

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:19 am

It is part of the aging process. It doesn't matter how much you exercise body or face if its not kept up eventually your toned body will loosen up. From ages 20-40 faces are still firm. Young skins doing facial exercises are not good examples. Darker skinned people generally keep their youthful look well into their 70s.
I still stand on my opinion that facial exercise serves no purpose other than creating more sagging. You could end up with more creases or wrinkling too. You might see a little toning but skin still wrinkles.

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:04 pm

I observe that as I age, the way fat is distributed on my body and face changes. The other day I ran into someone I hadn't seen for a few years and noticed her upper lip area had shrunk (as has mine - that's the main cause of lip lines IMHO, just look at the profile of young and older people and you see what I mean). I also notice that in lots of women the meaty area of the chin seems to grow and sag. Now in that chin thing, exercise definitely can work, at least to keep the meaty thing in place sort of. But things will change shape, it's mother Nature telling everyone you're no longer in the baby producing stage. The buttocks change shape too, no matter how hard you train the muscles. The shape changes due to differences in where the fat is stored - just as the thighs change because it no longer is a prime location to store fat (older ladies often have bigger bellies and thinner legs). Muscle can replace some volume but not in the exact same places.

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:10 pm

Now I'm thoroughly depressed Sad

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:20 pm

marina wrote:

Now I'm thoroughly depressed Sad

Don't be depressed....there is always something that might help. I do agree that with our body left to itself aging does set in....things go south,,,and it is not for vacation Laughing

it is a permanent residence Laughing

But with all the great things posted about on this forum many are holding off the aging. Kassy had fantastic results with the Lightstim and so did others. Copper peptides and retain-a have been great for many and facial exercises have great testimonies. My newest favorite additions are Ageless Secret products, Nanci's DNA, and the Yamuna balls....never know what is next!!! Dancing

There is also something else that is very important....how we THINK about getting older...after all it is just a number....that is what my mother says!!!! She still wears designer jeans and heels, listens to pop music,makes sure she is in the latest styles and refuses to hang out with those white headed people! This is my mother...she is 80!

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:44 pm

Oh my SuzieQ. I know you have never done facial exercises and I guess by your response not much exercise in general but please know it does matter.
I have the body of a much younger woman and I am in my early 50's- I've been exercising my entire life - a gymnast, a long distance runner and now a semi-gym rat. No saggy rear-end for me and my jawline is okay too. Exercise does matter. True, there are variables that cannot be controlled, but for that there are things like good skin care, copper peptides and Ageless secret (my fav). Aging occurs but I'd rather be one who fights the youthful, good fight. There is a world of difference between letting it go and exercising whether it be body or face. Exercise lifts the face, works the muscle fibers, and revitalizes the attachment to bone and skin: amazing.

The world will always have the believers and the non-believers. Let it all go then you will sag, you will get the jowls and that's that. Me, I'm happy to get whistled at.

SusieQ wrote:

It is part of the aging process. It doesn't matter how much you exercise body or face if its not kept up eventually your toned body will loosen up. From ages 20-40 faces are still firm. Young skins doing facial exercises are not good examples. Darker skinned people generally keep their youthful look well into their 70s.
I still stand on my opinion that facial exercise serves no purpose other than creating more sagging. You could end up with more creases or wrinkling too. You might see a little toning but skin still wrinkles.

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:44 pm

Wow Toby!! Have you ever got genetics on your side!!! Bottle that and I'll buy it!! Seriously...she is beautiful and thank you for the encouragement

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:46 pm

Toby wrote:

marina wrote:

Now I'm thoroughly depressed Sad

Don't be depressed....there is always something that might help. I do agree that with our body left to itself aging does set in....things go south,,,and it is not for vacation Laughing

it is a permanent residence Laughing

But with all the great things posted about on this forum many are holding off the aging. Kassy had fantastic results with the Lightstim and so did others. Copper peptides and retain-a have been great for many and facial exercises have great testimonies. My newest favorite additions are Ageless Secret products, Nanci's DNA, and the Yamuna balls....never know what is next!!! Dancing

There is also something else that is very important....how we THINK about getting older...after all it is just a number....that is what my mother says!!!! She still wears designer jeans and heels, listens to pop music,makes sure she is in the latest styles and refuses to hang out with those white headed people! This is my mother...she is 80!

Go Mama. She looks young and vibrant. I will guess the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Look at that jawline!!!!

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:50 pm

Carole Maggio has tremendous lip exercises.

Fat distribution does change - especially if you just lay there and let it. It does it in young people too. Bad diet, lots of carbs....
I know you have all seen vivacious older people who stand out in the crowd - stand out among their peers and even can hold it with a younger crowd. I assure you they are not laying around thinking "what's the use". Mind, Body, Spirit.

Lotusesther wrote:

I observe that as I age, the way fat is distributed on my body and face changes. The other day I ran into someone I hadn't seen for a few years and noticed her upper lip area had shrunk (as has mine - that's the main cause of lip lines IMHO, just look at the profile of young and older people and you see what I mean). I also notice that in lots of women the meaty area of the chin seems to grow and sag. Now in that chin thing, exercise definitely can work, at least to keep the meaty thing in place sort of. But things will change shape, it's mother Nature telling everyone you're no longer in the baby producing stage. The buttocks change shape too, no matter how hard you train the muscles. The shape changes due to differences in where the fat is stored - just as the thighs change because it no longer is a prime location to store fat (older ladies often have bigger bellies and thinner legs). Muscle can replace some volume but not in the exact same places.

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:00 pm

I wish I had my mom's genes with the face but I don't. Our body shape and face shape and features aren't alike at all. She is also thirty pounds heavier which adds to the nicely padded face. We have different thickness of skin and hair.....but we are both suckers to trying beauty secrets. Laughing

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