facial exercises for a beginner
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free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:16 am

Can anyone recommend a good set of facial exercises for a beginner I was told if they are done wrong you can end up making your face worse for me its more a preventative measure but would like some easy ones to begin with.

thanks

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:58 am

Flick dont be fooled into that thinking that you can make your face worse - only if you over do things will that happen. Why not start out with Tom Haggerty's stuff (which is free) onwww.shapeyourface.com as an introduction. If your young, that may be all you need. Then as time passes and if your goals change you can start exploring other things.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:06 am

Oh thanks I will have a look at that I was worried because I read that facial muscles are different to ones in the body and each one only has so much ability to take repetitive movement before causing lines etc, it made sense because I have slight frown lines which must have been caused by me repeatedly frowning, I'm not a miserable person but I do it without realising.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:44 am

They are a little different but muscles themselves are very similar although different in shape, size and perhaps function and also the fact that on the face they tend to originate on the bone, and terminate into another muscle or skin. On the body muscles tend to begin and end at a joint. With the repetitive movement thereï¿½s some truth to this, but its not the complete story. Its not the movement that causes the lines, but the fact that the tissue gets damaged. Usual causes are things like sun damage from our teens etc. Now with frowning, its very often an unconscious habit ï¿½ and it can impact peoples thoughts about us (as you say miserable ï¿½ I've heard others say people always think they're cross etc). To me when lines start showing up (and they show up on children too) its always a signal that dehydration is present. So being so young and with your goals like that in mind I'd say look at what your doing hydration wise (and dehydration wise). Also protecting your skin from any further damage is essential!

flick24 wrote:

Oh thanks I will have a look at that I was worried because I read that facial muscles are different to ones in the body and each one only has so much ability to take repetitive movement before causing lines etc, it made sense because I have slight frown lines which must have been caused by me repeatedly frowning, I'm not a miserable person but I do it without realising.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:20 am

Thankyou SeanyseanUK you have explained that to me really well about the frowning, what can I do to make sure that I/my skin is hydrated ?, I always am drinking fluids mainly diet coke (I know really bad but I am cutting down) I have recently decided to cut all alcohol and hopefully improve my diet.
I always thought urine colour was an indicater of hydration and have read somewhere on the skincare forum that drinking 8 glasses of water a day was not actually required as water is in food, other drinks like diet coke

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:36 am

Hydration is such a complex subject, but do some reading on it. There are some great books out there like “Your Body’s many cries for water” which is a classic. Diet Coke though cannot and will not hydrate you – if anything it acts as a direutic and encourages the body to loose water. Urine colour isn’t such a reliable source of hydration or dehydration. Water is in foods, and its great to consume foods that hold water but its not a substitute for drinking a good quality pure water.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:50 am

Really? What is the difference between water from a bottle or water from watermelon when it's absorbed in the bowel, and finds its way into the bloodstream to finally reach the kidneys? I have always learned that a baby gets in enough H2O through mother's milk, for instance, and that if anything, when dehydrated one should take an isotonic watery solution instead of plain water because that re-hydrates fastest. Green tea has the same effect - hydrates better than plain water (this has been researched with people doing sports and losing lots of water doing that). From that info I gather there's not much difference, or rather that drinking green tea is much better than drinking water, when it comes to hydration.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:55 am

Thanks I will, I do find it difficult to drimk water when there's so much more to choose from, I have until recently been drinking 4 litres of diet coke a day,I have got that down abit now and drink more green/white tea but I am definantly going to make a big effort to drink more water Smile

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:55 pm

If you can get all the water from watermelons fantastic, but for the average person you'd need to eat such a large quantity that its not really doable in today's world.

Not all bottled water is good quality. Its about having a liquid that the body can utilise sufficiently.

Green tea of course is fantastic, but its not what I'm talking about above. I'm talking about avoiding diet coke and going for good quality water. Different things!

Re rehydrating, the tests were done with atheletes and its a very different conversation than someone dealing with dehydration and living and working in today's society on a very different lifestyle, nutritional intake and genetics than a modern athelete.

Lotusesther wrote:

Really? What is the difference between water from a bottle or water from watermelon when it's absorbed in the bowel, and finds its way into the bloodstream to finally reach the kidneys? I have always learned that a baby gets in enough H2O through mother's milk, for instance, and that if anything, when dehydrated one should take an isotonic watery solution instead of plain water because that re-hydrates fastest. Green tea has the same effect - hydrates better than plain water (this has been researched with people doing sports and losing lots of water doing that). From that info I gather there's not much difference, or rather that drinking green tea is much better than drinking water, when it comes to hydration.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:03 pm

flick24 wrote:

Thankyou SeanyseanUK you have explained that to me really well about the frowning, what can I do to make sure that I/my skin is hydrated ?, I always am drinking fluids mainly diet coke (I know really bad but I am cutting down) I have recently decided to cut all alcohol and hopefully improve my diet.
I always thought urine colour was an indicater of hydration and have read somewhere on the skincare forum that drinking 8 glasses of water a day was not actually required as water is in food, other drinks like diet coke

Keep in mind the phosphoric acid in soda DESTROYS bone. So not only are you setting yourself up for bone loss and all the physical trauma that goes with that, but from a visual anti aging perspective, you're also begging to have your face look old.

Your bone loss is likely to be in you skull too. Less bone = less support for your skin = MORE WRINKLES...

Take care of your bones... and you automatically help care for the appearance of your face (and the curve of your spine (aging), and the support of those hips - dang limps make us look old too!)

Just thought I'd give you another reason to consider dumping that stuff.

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:02 pm

Quote:

Re rehydrating, the tests were done with atheletes and its a very different conversation than someone dealing with dehydration and living and working in today's society on a very different lifestyle, nutritional intake and genetics than a modern athelete.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but this is not very clear to me. Is a modern athlete genetically different from other people?

All over the world in warm places where you need to replenish a lot of fluids people drink tea. Lots of it. Bottled water is more to drink when you are having a meal.

Finally I don't think it makes much difference why you need to take in fluids, whether it's from exercise or anything else - rehydration is answering to a need of the body to get fluids back in. It makes no difference whether or not you are an athlete. What matters is, how quickly and efficiently the body can absorb the liquid it is offered.

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:32 am

I can't believe what damage I must have done to myself I have been drinking loads of diet coke for over 10 years, I swear its addictive and not just the caffeine I'm trying to wean myself off it.

I don't think its necessary to buy bottled water I'm happy to just drink from the tap but I think I will buy some of those isotonic sports drinks as long as I can find one without sugars in most I have seen do though.

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:21 am

Flick24...

It's worth trying to figure out what is most addictive about it to you.

Is it the sweetness. Diet tends to be sweeter than regular do the fake, generally sweeter, sugar. Which btw, supposedly has the same effect on your insulin and such as regular sugar. Do research. Not sure how that works.

Is it the fizz? Perhaps you can switch to sparkling water and some flavoring, like lime or lemon juice. REAL, not flavored water.

Is it the caffiene? Perhaps switch to tea for your boost.

Or, in the end, bit the bullet. Get some excederine, and drop the product. When you get the caffiene headache, take the excederine, and then slowly back off of that.

Ok, that would be the way I would do it. Please don't assume that's "medical" advise.

Figure out how to get off!

Take care!

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:05 am

flick24 your belief that repeated facial expressions can cause permanent lines isn't farfetched. It is true, especially as we age and lose elasticity and collagen in our skin. I mean, when we make facial expressions like smiling or frowning, we do, in a way, exercise certain muscles of the face, and hence laugh lines and frown lines form from this respectively. Which would lead one to rationally conclude that any exercising of face muscles will lead to wrinkles since we do it all the time and wrinkles still occur. The creases we make become almost ironed in and add to the wrinkles we get from other effects like UV rays and gravity's pull that causes sag. For a lot of people, the only way to stop this from happening is to get Botox and stop all movement of the face. No movement means no creasing which means smooth skin, right? But paralysis by Botox also means loss of facial expression and muscle atrophy because if you don't use them (muscles) you lose them. And whenever the Botox wears out, the state of the skin is usually worse than before because those muscles have had no exercise and gravity didn't take a break from pulling on them.

Sounds like a lost cause, either way, doesn't it? I mean, you exercise your face by making expressions and being normal, you get wrinkles. You don't move your face, you appear dead and still get wrinkles, not to mention how expensive this second method is in the long run.

So what's one to do besides going under the knife? Enter the world of face exercises. What makes a good face exercise program different and defiant of the rule that "exercising the face will cause more lines" is that it is designed so as to engage muscles of the face that we rarely use and exercise these dormant ones for a change. If you look at the anatomy of the face, you'll see muscles lie in so many different directions and they are connected to each other and to the skin, not to mention some are underneath others...Just a whole lotta confusion going on there.

So tone in one muscle causes it to exert a strong force on any muscles attached to it. That pull can also cause an accordion effect on another muscle that is nearby which isn't as toned or on the skin that is indirectly affected by this difference in tone. What face exercises try to do is try to improve tone in all the muscles so that there's an opening up of the creases due to a firmer pull on related muscles and a smoothing out of the wrinkles as the muscles underneath firm up and push up as the ones that are rarely used finally get some tone and pull on those that are used regularly. That's a simplistic way of explaining it but it's as far as my little brain cares to go and it makes sense to me as I have observed changes in myself and others that seem to confirm this.

It is helpful to understand what happens to skin as we age. Dr Pickart has a great article on that on this page: http://www.reverseskinaging.com/biology1.html

This brings me to the other positive effect of face exercises: they do help with improving skin elasticity and collagen according to the following articles: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/as-you-exercise-the-face-how-does-it-improve-over-time

I do agree with Sean that Tom's workout is a great one to start with but I don't think it's just good for young people; there was a discussion just the other day on SkinBio where a 70-year old shared how helpful Tom's program has been to her. And it has kept Tom looking great for his age, so give it a shot. The bonus is it's FREE! (There's a CD you can buy of the workout but I do think you can make do with just the website. I have friends who only use that.) Please read the whole website before you start as he gives a lot of good info and I think proper form is very important with any workout so please pay attention to the details he gives for each exercise (www.shapeyourface.com). I have friends who do the it and love it. Initially you may not be able to do the workout as well as Tom does but persistence pays off, and as your face gets stronger, you'll get better at the exercises. Tom has a forum too where you can get suggestions and helps from others and Tom himself, who's a great guy BTW, if you have any problems.

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:40 pm

Thanks Nonie those links were really informative, I had never really thought about the botox affect as its not something I have considered it sounds like a vicious cycle that once you start its hard to stop, I'm definantly gonna start a facial exercise regime although when I look at the before/after pics I can't really see much difference between them just looks like different poses/expressions although I'm probably not comparing as well as they are themselves, it may be quite subtle, I have ordered some collagen supplements so hopefully they will help as well

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:57 pm

That was great Nonie!

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:52 pm

flick24 wrote:

Thanks Nonie those links were really informative, I had never really thought about the botox affect as its not something I have considered it sounds like a vicious cycle that once you start its hard to stop, I'm definantly gonna start a facial exercise regime although when I look at the before/after pics I can't really see much difference between them just looks like different poses/expressions although I'm probably not comparing as well as they are themselves, it may be quite subtle, I have ordered some collagen supplements so hopefully they will help as well

flick24, I do agree it's hard sometimes to really discern changes in people that do face exercises, so perhaps instead of looking at the changes, you can look at the final results rather than where the people started from. Echoecho made a point which I thought was very good: that people who do face exercises generally look good. Maybe not "perfect" but definitely good enough to be happy with their faces.

I don't claim to take great pics but I took the following photos for my own benefit and to get guidance from my face exercise instructor, Carolyn, so I did try to take them as clearly as I could. I had taken a hiatus from face exercising for several months to a year and not only did my skin not look that great, I had pronounced N/L lines when I smiled by January 2007. In the course of a few months of doing a good program, my N/L gradually diminshed by becoming shallow and the double parenthesis also became less obvious and eventually disappeared. (The 3 photos on top were taken in January 2007 and the 3 below those were taken in March 2007, three months into the program:

8 months in, August 2007, my N/L lines were where I wanted them and I was very happy with my face:

January 2009, about 2 years since I started the program I'm on, I couldn't have been happier:

Here's another random photo taken in June 2008 that I think shows the improvement in my N/L lines when compared with the January 2007 image:

I believe most people who take before/after photos do so not to fool others but to share exciting "news". So even if the change may not be obvious, I can tell you from my own experience, it is usually remarkable and pleasing enough for them to want to share. But as I've said before, the proof is in the pudding. We would not be singing praises of face exercises if they didn't work so well. I personally don't use any other anti-aging products like retinols, glycolics, CPs etc and at 40-something, I can honestly say face exercises have helped me keep up with those who do.

Thanks Dickymoe. I'm glad you were able to make sense of that ramble in spite of the typos. Funny how one tends to notice them only after the window for editing has expired. *groan*

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:45 am

I think the problem is that different conversations are taking place and youve gone out a little on the subject matter of the original poster and trying to dissect my post. Ultimately hydration and dehydration can impact anyone no matter where or who they are or what they do, but the example of an athelete was to give you a broad perspective.

From the athelete and other people its not so much that theyre genetically different but they place much more demand on their physical bodies than the average person does and generally they have a much greater sense of their body and its functioning than most average people do. However theyre not alone. Diabetics for example often have greater awareness of their bloodsugar levels and what foods increase them (I speak from personal experience here).

Actually drinking water when having a meal isnt such a great idea because it has a way of diluting the digestive enzymes and acids (which we dont want). However from the point of hydration, its really very simple. It simply boils down to what fluids you give to your body and how effectively the body is able to use that to hydrate. Whilst Im aware of one study that suggests teas/coffee hydrate, I think it really is much more simplistic to look at it from the bodys perspective. When you feed the body fluids, whatever is in those fluids have to be used by the body or passed through its filtering system. So pure filtered water (or bottled spring water for example) presents a very different journey and filtering system than say a tea or coffee. Not all waters are equal. For example in the UK tap water has over 20 different chemicals in it. So when a person drinks tap water their body has to filter out 20 plus chemicals alongside the water. Different in comparison to someone who drinks a filtered water or mineral water.

Usually in the world and warm places you will often find that there is a huge different in genetics and cultural practices too that work in synergy with a persons diet and water intake. Whilst for example eskimos might not drink the same amount of water as say someone in the tropics, when you look at their diets and what is consumed etc you can often see that there are things eaten that wont put their bodies into dehydration mode as much in comparison to our diets.

As I said previously, if it was possible for us to get all our hydration needs from vegetables alone I'd be all for it, but with today's modern lifestyles and the different farming methods out there its very difficult to do, but ultimately it would be amazing to even incorporate water from vegetables into all our diets as it does have an electromagnetic charge thats valuable to the body!

Lotusesther wrote:

I don't mean to be argumentative, but this is not very clear to me. Is a modern athlete genetically different from other people?

All over the world in warm places where you need to replenish a lot of fluids people drink tea. Lots of it. Bottled water is more to drink when you are having a meal.

Finally I don't think it makes much difference why you need to take in fluids, whether it's from exercise or anything else - rehydration is answering to a need of the body to get fluids back in. It makes no difference whether or not you are an athlete. What matters is, how quickly and efficiently the body can absorb the liquid it is offered.

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:31 am

Sorry to keep going on, but there are some things here that are simply not correct.

Quote:

As I said previously, if it was possible for us to get all our hydration needs from vegetables alone I'd be all for it, but with today's modern lifestyles and the different farming methods out there its very difficult to do, but ultimately it would be amazing to even incorporate water from vegetables into all our diets as it does have an electromagnetic charge thats valuable to the body!

Fact is, we do get water from our fruits and vegetables. Even more than long ago, since commercial growers tend to please the eye and produce fruits and veggies that look plump and moist, because they contain more water (Dutch tomatoes, also called 'water bombs', are one of the most extreme examples - all looks, no taste). So anyone who eats fruits and vegetables encorporates water from fruits and vegetables in their diet. The body - especially the last part of the bowel - absorbs it.

Quote:

Usually in the world and warm places you will often find that there is a huge different in genetics and cultural practices too that work in synergy with a persons diet and water intake. Whilst for example eskimos might not drink the same amount of water as say someone in the tropics, when you look at their diets and what is consumed etc you can often see that there are things eaten that wont put their bodies into dehydration mode as much in comparison to our diets.

People on the North Pole sweat less because the temperature is lower, so they don't have to take in as much water and salt as someone in the tropics. Genetics have nothing to do with this. Often food is very spicy in warmer climats, and salty (often added in the form of salty soy sauces etc., or fermented prawns, stuff like that) which would compensate for salt loss due to sweating. If anything, people would get bloated from taking in too much salt - puffy eyes, due to water retention, not dehydration.

Quote:

When you feed the body fluids, whatever is in those fluids have to be used by the body or passed through its filtering system.

This goes for ALL fluids, including the fluids in fruit and vegetables. Everything we ingest will encounter our filtering system, and that is just as well.

Sorry for the long post, but some things just don't add up, unless you're trying to sell bottled water.

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:11 am

Lotusesther your misinterpreting things into my messages so Id like to clarify this a little for you but dont have time to go into every single detail here that I would like - it would be like writing a book and Im sure that people dont want or need that, besides there are some excellent books out there already. There are several statements that your making that are also not CORRECT too and some of your statements are based on dissecting segments of the information Im posting and of course when you look at snippets of them, its easy to misintrepet them, so you really need to take all the factors into context and perhaps where we are also mixing things up is that Im basing this on my experience of working with people too using nutritional therapy (which Iï¿½ve studied and qualified in).

Lotusesther wrote:

Sorry to keep going on, but there are some things here that are simply not correct.

Let me explain, theres no denying at all that we get some water from vegetables - Its a FACT. what Im saying here is that very few people can consume the basic daily amount needed by their bodies for their total water consumption. Dont forget even basic metabolic functioning uses water, not to mention things like sweating etc. It all pulls on the body's supplies of water. Even if you were to lie down all day, your body would use up some of the water it had consumed previously. FACT. We know this and its got a lot of studies behind it. Even a person who sat around and did nothing all day would need to replenish their water supplies as we lose water even during sleep (FACT). If they were able to eat a rich and nutritional diet with contained vegetables that hold water - that would be fantastic. However what Ive found in my experience is that people have busy lives and are working etc, and often dont consume sufficient quantities of those fruits and vegetables. Not only that but the amount a person would need to eat to make up that number is quite substantial and would take a lot of time and planning. Im not saying this is impossible, it certainly is, but most people will not be willing to put that amount of time, effort, money and energy into doing so, so where they are concerned, Im suggesting they go for a pure good quality water. Thatï¿½s not to say they have to go out and buy the most expensive. They could even get it from a local spring if it was near to them (which often would be free!). Even if people eat these fruits and vegetables its no guarantee that they are supplying their bodies with sufficient water. Whilst these are definitely useful and important to consume, if theyre falling short of supplying all the water their bodies need theyre going to be robbing their bodies and preventing their bodies do the best that they could be doing.

Lotusesther wrote:

act is, we do get water from our fruits and vegetables. Even more than long ago, since commercial growers tend to please the eye and produce fruits and veggies that look plump and moist, because they contain more water (Dutch tomatoes, also called 'water bombs', are one of the most extreme examples - all looks, no taste). So anyone who eats fruits and vegetables encorporates water from fruits and vegetables in their diet. The body - especially the last part of the bowel - absorbs it.

As for the genetics conversation, its so complex and its really impossible to go into such detail to draw upon everything that would be needed to say. The eskimo example does of course incorporate conversations about temperature and lifestyle, but it also does take into account the stuff thats eaten and drunken too. Whilst the temperature is indeed lower, they still need to consume water and they do drink water (and its very highly mineralised water nothing like that of our tap water in the UK). Secondly the fish they eat are often not of the contaminated or farm variety too that are common place here in the UK. You will tend to find that eskimos dont just appear out of no where and that often there is a long genetic hierarchy in place whereby their genes and lifestyles have adapted as a result of the environment. Whilst genes are never the sole answer to anything, they have to form a basis of the conversation. Its difficult to go further into your message re salt etc because again its a conversation of several factors.

Lotusesther wrote:

People on the North Pole sweat less because the temperature is lower, so they don't have to take in as much water and salt as someone in the tropics. Genetics have nothing to do with this. Often food is very spicy in warmer climats, and salty (often added in the form of salty soy sauces etc., or fermented prawns, stuff like that) which would compensate for salt loss due to sweating. If anything, people would get bloated from taking in too much salt - puffy eyes, due to water retention, not dehydration.

Lotusesther wrote:

Sorry for the long post, but some things just don't add up, unless you're trying to sell bottled water.

Im most certainly not trying to sell bottled water, but I am saying that if people know dehydration is an issue for them then a good quality bottled water can be a useful tool, but it never can take the place of natural water from vegetables, but hell it can be used in conjunction with them. The basic point I was making was that the body treats natural waters very differently than those of teas, coffees and in this thread the actual response was about DIET COKE. Thats the very distinction I was making at the beginning. You cannot include Diet Coke to have the same benefit as water. Likewise you cannot compare tap water to spring water. They are vastly different not only in their chemical composition but also their activities and demands on the filtering system of the body and also how they are used by the body.

As I said previously, you need to look at my responses and the messages they were in response to - to fully understand where my suggestions are coming from and what they are in response to. Im not disputing many of the things you are saying Lotusether but I dont think your understanding what these comments are in relation to nor are you understanding the essence of the message Im trying to convey here to the original poster.

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:22 am

Athletes are usually very self aware of their bodies and their nutrition and exercising is usually second to none. Theyâ€™re usually very accomplished and often have bloodwork and medical tests done to ensure that their bodies are running at optimal levels but also to avoid many of the pitfalls that normal people would face. So with something say like an imbalance in minerals, an athelete generally will have access to far more professional resources that can quickly diagnose and fix faster than say you or I or the average person.

Rehydration is firstly about getting the body out of dehydration alert (which it goes into to protect itself and the organs). Thatâ€™s one of the main issues that professionals work with â€“ to get the body switched out of that survival mode. For many average people who donâ€™t have access to the same resources as atheletes its not uncommon for them to be in dehydration mode for a significant amount of time and this has a knock on effect when it happens in the body. So whilst its a good comparison, its a complex one that you really have to break down and go into significant details with. I've had the privilege of working with some of the doctors who worked with the previous UK olympic teams in the UK, and am also due to meet some working with the UK olympic teams next year in the coming months as its one of the areas I'm most interested in.

Lotusesther wrote:

Finally I don't think it makes much difference why you need to take in fluids, whether it's from exercise or anything else - rehydration is answering to a need of the body to get fluids back in. It makes no difference whether or not you are an athlete. What matters is, how quickly and efficiently the body can absorb the liquid it is offered.

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:28 am

Correction - I said "If your young, that may be all you need. Then as time passes and if your goals change you can start exploring other things." Hate it when people try to put words in my mouth that are completely incorrect.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

I do agree with Sean that Tom's workout is a great one to start with but I don't think it's just good for young people; there was a discussion just the other day on SkinBio where a 70-year old shared how helpful Tom's program has been to her. And it has kept Tom looking great for his age, so give it a shot.

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:39 am

Sorry to go on about this. But

Quote:

Im most certainly not trying to sell bottled water, but I am saying that if people know dehydration is an issue for them then a good quality bottled water can be a useful tool, but it never can take the place of natural water from vegetables, but hell it can be used in conjunction with them. The basic point I was making was that the body treats natural waters very differently than those of teas, coffees and in this thread the actual response was about DIET COKE. Thats the very distinction I was making at the beginning. You cannot include Diet Coke to have the same benefit as water. Likewise you cannot compare tap water to spring water. They are vastly different not only in their chemical composition but also their activities and demands on the filtering system of the body and also how they are used by the body.

You CAN compare tap water with spring water. In fact, in many places tap water IS spring water. It's H2O with some mineral salts etc. in them, unless you live in a city where they use chlorine or fluoride in the tap water, in which case it's potable and won't make you sick (well, the fluoride will do that eventually) but it tastes foul. But basically what the body takes in and uses is plain old H2O.
One of the main points of how well the body can absorb water from fluids has to do with concentration. Absorption of water is an active process. I disagree with the emphasis you put on genetics, as it is very simple to observe that migrants who adopt the diet of the country they migrated to do very well on that diet. If anything, the macrobiotic theory would be viable since the local diet has developed to give the best survival rate for that particular place on earth given the resources naturally present.

It's very nice for you to be able to work with doctors who work for the Olympic team. But I don't think that's very relevant for this conversation, is it? Athletes are a very small part of mankind with very specific needs, due to the extreme demands they make on their bodies. You will find that athletes, once they quit sports, have a very difficult time adjusting physically to a normal lifestyle. So how relevant is their diet and intake of supplements, muscle building extra's, hormones and hormone stimulating substances etc. for the people on this forum?

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:50 am

I can only talk about the stuff i've learned about the water here in the UK and you most certainly can't compare tap water to spring water. Its documented that here in London for example up to 23 different chemicals have been found in tap water that aren't present in spring water. Likewise its not so much that genetics I'm placing emphasis on, but it's a factor of the conversation that you have to take into context.

Likewise the conversation of athletes is simply talking about the example of rehydrating with green tea. The point i was making is that these studies were done with athletes and not the average person, so you have to take that into account. Will the average person have the same reaction as an athlete - Im not convinced. However that's not to discredit green tea, as its certainly high in lots of good things for the body, but the dehydration that an athlete might experience is on a very different scale to that of dehydration that the original poster in this thread is talking about.

As you can see the original poster of this thread talks specifically about how to make sure their skin is hydrated, and mentions specifically that they are always drinking fluids - mainly diet coke. But hey you take it from here - you tell us what you would recommend the original poster of this thread to do to rehydrate them and I'll leave you to it. Sorry I tried to help and over to you!

free skin care · Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:32 am

I don't have to give any solution whatsoever, and anyone who prefers bottled water over any other kind of water will drink bottled water. Personally I would not so readily assume a potentially life threatening situation like dehydration. And lack of moisture in the skin would first of all make me check what I have been doing to it to make it lose moisture - like exfoliation, harsh chemicals, peels, retin-a, anything that might have damaged the skin's capacity to keep moisture in. Second, if I could not find such a direct cause, I might be looking into diet, thyroid function, hormone balance, things like that. But on the other hand, lines are inevitable at some point in life.
When constantly frowning I could also have my eyes checked, to see if I need glasses or a new prescription because my current glasses aren't strong enough anymore. Most people don't really frown but squint, to see better. I know I do, and when I do I must have my eyes checked again. So you see, I wouldn't really go for diet or water intake as a primary cause for wrinkles while exercising, but keep it simple, look first at skin condition and at what may cause the repetitive movement or constant expression.

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