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Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:06 pm  |
| Hi everyone, i have been having botox twice a year for around 5 years now and though the results are great, i am starting to panic over the long term effects of this stuff on my brain etc!! and plus i just had my forehead ,eyes etc done last week and i have had the worst anxiety - like the botox is causing these symptom, and has done before as well. Plus every time i get botox i get the worst sore throat, flu symptoms - every time! I feel that last week is the last time for me and want to know what is the best alternative? I am 34 with fine horizontal lines (which the botox takes away) and fine crows feet. I have dry skin. Would using the Obagi stuff (not familiar with all the different items in the range) be a good place to start to try and smooth any exisiting lines when the botox wears off?? Any suggestions greatly appreciated. |
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Dry skin/prone to forehead breakouts/fair/a few freckles. |
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Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:00 pm |
Nicky1, face exercises can help. I don't know much about topicals but someone will help you there, but it won't hurt to do face exercises as well. Here is some feedback from people who used to get Botox and then stopped and started face exercises:
Andy
Stephanie N
Another Botox User
Donna
Denise |
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Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:13 am |
| Have you discussed these symptoms with the doctor who injected you? It may be worth reading the Safetox and Yamuna ball threads as well as the face exercise ones. You might also consider focussing on a hydrating routine and/ or taking a low molecular weight hyaluronic acid supplement. |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:29 pm |
Why not accept getting old? 
We all will go there anyway
Just kidding
But I think you can take care of yourself extra better to improve the overall health of your skin and body. I think we can use preventive creams to delay the signs of aging without botox treatments. Just curiously, how much does it cost to get botox? How often should you have it done on your face? I guess too expensive! I will rather stick to my beauty treatments, buy at EDS and all that. Buy whatever I need to improve or delay getting old.....
| nicky1 wrote: |
| Hi everyone, i have been having botox twice a year for around 5 years now and though the results are great, i am starting to panic over the long term effects of this stuff on my brain etc!! and plus i just had my forehead ,eyes etc done last week and i have had the worst anxiety - like the botox is causing these symptom, and has done before as well. Plus every time i get botox i get the worst sore throat, flu symptoms - every time! I feel that last week is the last time for me and want to know what is the best alternative? I am 34 with fine horizontal lines (which the botox takes away) and fine crows feet. I have dry skin. Would using the Obagi stuff (not familiar with all the different items in the range) be a good place to start to try and smooth any exisiting lines when the botox wears off?? Any suggestions greatly appreciated. |
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Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:16 pm |
I won't stop using botox until they invent something better and hopefully cheaper. I only use it for crow's feet because my bangs cover up my forehead and I look younger with bangs anyway. Change your hairstyle.
I think some people are just more sensitive to certain things. Look at the problems kids get after vaccines. It's the luck of the genetic draw. |
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Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:11 pm |
If you google Botox side effects you will find that things like sore throats, colds and flu are quite common.
I recently had a conversation with Allergan and yes, Botox does cause an immune system response. Something that the doctors and nurses injecting the stuff dont really tell clients about.
Some people on various forums have said they couldnt understand why they never felt the same after Botox injections then after many years of use realized it was affecting their immune system - once they got off of it and detoxed they felt better and got their lives back...
Food for thought...  |
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Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:26 pm |
| There is nothing like botox! I only use it for my crows feet and it works magnificently!Dont need it on forehead since I do have bangs. Not having crows feet makes you look quite a bit younger. I am 57 and I still get carded when I buy wine.People dont realize that when you smile those crows feet are a dead giveaway of age and nothing looks worse than deep crows feet.No cream will make crows feet disappear; possibly soften a bit but only botox kills the crows. |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:46 am |
I absolutely agree with Softskin & Lucyluc. I have bangs too & get Botox for crow's feet & a tiny bit between the brows. My crow's feet were pretty bad due to genetics & years of horse riding in the hot Australian sun & Botox gets rid of them for me. No cream will do this.
As to the immune system - i've been getting Botox for 3 and a half years & i've had one cold in that time.
Jade1234, the cost depends on a few things such as your location, how many areas you want injected, how bad the lines are & how strong the muscles are. It generally lasts between 3 & 4 months. As an example of the cost, my glabella lines (between the brows) aren't too bad, it costs me about $90 to get them zapped. My crow's are much worse, costs me around $300 for those. |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:09 pm |
| Glamcat wrote: |
If you google Botox side effects you will find that things like sore throats, colds and flu are quite common.
I recently had a conversation with Allergan and yes, Botox does cause an immune system response. Something that the doctors and nurses injecting the stuff dont really tell clients about.
Some people on various forums have said they couldnt understand why they never felt the same after Botox injections then after many years of use realized it was affecting their immune system - once they got off of it and detoxed they felt better and got their lives back...
Food for thought... |
Colds and flu are caused by viruses. I am not sure how you can associate Botox with a viral infection unless a person is exposed to the infection while at the doctor's office.
Botox does NOT affect a person's immune system in the manner you suggest.In some people, Botox does cause an immune response. The body will develop antibodies and therefore resistance to the toxin. This means it will not work, and patients will have to resort to other (related) botulism toxins to get relief.
Occasionally some patients may develop an immune response to BOTOX/BOTOX Cosmetic that may reduce the effectiveness of treatment. This is because BOTOX/BOTOX Cosmetic is a protein complex, and in some patients the body’s immune system may respond by producing “blocking” (or neutralizing) antibodies capable of inactivating the protein’s biological activity. Antibody formation is more of a concern when patients must receive frequent injections or when it is used to treat medical conditions such as cervical dystonia that require higher doses. However, recent long-term studies have indicated immunogenicity to be a minor concern even with that treatment. Both the BOTOX/BOTOX Cosmetic labels (attached) advise that the potential for antibody formation may be minimized by injecting with the lowest effective dose given at the longest feasible internals between injections.
http://plasticsurgery.about.com/od/minimallyinvasive/a/immunetobotox.htm
Doctors and nurses who inject Botox are aware that some people develop immunity to it; they probably don't mention it to patients simply because it is a rare occurrence (less than 1% of people). |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:57 pm |
| I do know an actual alternative to botox, the bee venom mask by Heaven. Camilla uses it along with Kylie and Dani Minogue and many others, it does the same as botox. |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:30 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
Colds and flu are caused by viruses. I am not sure how you can associate Botox with a viral infection unless a person is exposed to the infection while at the doctor's office.
Botox does NOT affect a person's immune system in the manner you suggest.In some people, Botox does cause an immune response. The body will develop antibodies and therefore resistance to the toxin. This means it will not work, and patients will have to resort to other (related) botulism toxins to get relief.
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Glamcat said RTIs are more common amongst Botox users, not that there is a straightforward cause-and-effect relationship. Allergan's patient information seems to concur
"Bronchitis and upper respiratory tract infections (common colds) have been reported. Bronchitis was reported more frequently in people receiving BOTOX® for their upper limb spasticity. Upper respiratory infections (common colds) were also reported more frequently in people with prior breathing-related problems."
http://botox.com/ |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:15 pm |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
Glamcat said RTIs are more common amongst Botox users, not that there is a straightforward cause-and-effect relationship. Allergan's patient information seems to concur
"Bronchitis and upper respiratory tract infections (common colds) have been reported. Bronchitis was reported more frequently in people receiving BOTOX® for their upper limb spasticity. Upper respiratory infections (common colds) were also reported more frequently in people with prior breathing-related problems."
http://botox.com/ |
Your link also states:
There has not been a confirmed serious case of spread of toxin effect away from the injection site when BOTOX® has been used at the recommended dose to treat chronic migraine, severe underarm sweating, blepharospasm, strabismus, or when BOTOX® Cosmetic has been used at the recommended dose to treat frown lines.
I suspect (and this is only my interpretation/opinion) the section you quoted refers to Botox injections for medical reasons (not cosmetic) where the dosage is much higher and the site of the injection(s) is much closer to the upper torso area. For example:
The most frequently reported adverse reactions (3-10% of adult patients) following injection of BOTOX (for primary axillary hyperhidrosis) in double-blind studies included injection site pain and hemorrhage, non-axillary sweating, infection, pharyngitis,flu syndrome, headache, fever, neck or back pain, pruritus, and anxiety.
You can read more here; Section 5.10 specifically refers to URTI and bronchitis in patients treated for spasticity:
http://www.allergan.com/assets/pdf/botox_pi.pdf |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:45 pm |
I wish people knew how well face exercises work. Everyone in my family has crows' feet when they smile, even my siblings who are 6-11 years younger than me. I don't have 'em, thanks to face exercises.
While Botox may make people look good initially--albeit expressionless--over time, when the muscle atrophy from lack of use, the look isn't so great. Tabitha Stevens is a good example:
There's an article on Carolyn's Blog I found rather interesting: Botox Can Inhibit our Ability to Communicate Properly (References are given at the bottom of the article). |
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:30 pm |
Yeah Id rather have crows feet than look like an anorexia victim.  Better still Id rather have an animated and mobile face that's healthy and well exercised. 
Give that the only side effect of facial exercises is the odd breakout or maybe even none. I know which option Im going for. IMHO theres nothing wrong with looking your age and fabulous. I dont want to be mistaken for 20, just a 40yr old with great skin. |
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40, fine porcelain skin, tendency to pigmentation no other issues. Rosehip oil is the cornerstone of my skin care. |
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:07 pm |
No amount of facial exercise would get rid of my crow's feet, believe me. I'm happy to look my age (40) with Botox than be mistaken for my father's wife without Botox. Can you imagine what a boost to my self esteem that was?  |
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:09 pm |
| If you prick your finger or get a tiny scrath, that induces an immune system response. Everything we put into our bodies does the same -- this is common sense. So it is no different with injecting foreign substances into our bodies or having tattoos or implants of any kind - it all causes an immune system reponse... just saying... |
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Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm |
| Well poking around on the net last night I came across a study on animals where only one limb was injected with botox. What they found though was that muscle wastage extended even to the limbs not touched by the injection. Interesting. |
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40, fine porcelain skin, tendency to pigmentation no other issues. Rosehip oil is the cornerstone of my skin care. |
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Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:38 am |
Even for those who don't want to use a complete facial exercise system there are several free exercises available on the internet to reduce crow's feet - the one on Carolyn's Facial Fitness is a very nice and effective one. I suggest you try it for a week or two and then evaluate, realising the effects of exercise are cumulative.
Exercise has reduced my crow's feet to fine lines, which is not bad at 50. My daughter made me promise never to use botox, as it's based on one of the most potent poisons on the planet. |
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:41 am |
| I've been able to avoid Botox by using Retin-A and not raising my eyebrows. For a couple of weeks at the beginning, I used mirrors to be hyperaware of my facial expressions, and now a year or so later, my expressions are habitually small and my forehead lines are basically gone. |
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30-ish, sensitive fair skin, oily and acne-prone, faded freckles; tretinoin since Oct 2010 |
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:39 am |
| CindiLou wrote: |
| No amount of facial exercise would get rid of my crow's feet, believe me. I'm happy to look my age (40) with Botox than be mistaken for my father's wife without Botox. Can you imagine what a boost to my self esteem that was? |
(((hugs))) Aw I bet your father looks great for his age and like he could easily pull a much younger woman. I can imagine that was about as much fun as being congratulated on my 'pregnancy' ... more than once.  Mental wellbeing is just as important as physical health, if a little Botox can boost your confidence you are right to seize the day. |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:49 pm |
Lol, thanks for your kind words Firefox but unfortunately my dad doesn't look good for his age at all! My mum has amazing skin but unfortunately i have dad's skin.
And *hugs* to you for the pregnancy comments. I've had that too when i put on weight in my twenties (because of depression) but fortunately the comments weren't made to my face at the time. |
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:51 pm |
| I do facial exercises, but for the crows feet I still need botox;thats the only place I need it.It makes such a huge difference to not have those ugly crows feet that for me its worth it. |
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Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:05 pm |
| CindiLou wrote: |
Lol, thanks for your kind words Firefox but unfortunately my dad doesn't look good for his age at all! My mum has amazing skin but unfortunately i have dad's skin.
And *hugs* to you for the pregnancy comments. I've had that too when i put on weight in my twenties (because of depression) but fortunately the comments weren't made to my face at the time. |
Thanks: it was a while ago now. One peril of having no boobs, your belly easily takes the lead!  |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:10 am |
| Glamcat wrote: |
If you google Botox side effects you will find that things like sore throats, colds and flu are quite common.
I recently had a conversation with Allergan and yes, Botox does cause an immune system response. Something that the doctors and nurses injecting the stuff dont really tell clients about.
Some people on various forums have said they couldnt understand why they never felt the same after Botox injections then after many years of use realized it was affecting their immune system - once they got off of it and detoxed they felt better and got their lives back...
Food for thought... |
As much as I want to try Botox, I do react very badly to everything "foreign" with my immune system.
I have even had severe allergies from antibiotics (and had to go to the hospital for that...).
So maybe I will work on finding the best serum that works for the day. |
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Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:47 am |
| Hi I've had great success with violox (sp?) from skincarerx. I use it on my naso-labial lines and feel a tingling sensation after about 10 minutes then when I try to snarl the muscle actually shakes. It's made the lines go almost completely and smoothed that whole area. I have to use it twice a day though and it's not overly cheap. It works though... just make sure you rub it in with some gusto. I also put medical tape on the area at night about 3 nights a week which is a suprisingly effective alternative to boxox. I get botox between my brows because it lasts over 12 months on me and works out cheaper at $97... |
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