Gentle exfoliator for acne
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

free skin care · Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:54 pm

I've been doing OCM for a few weeks now, and using Clarisonic a few times a week. No (other) manual exfoliation. I'd like to start using a gentle chemical exfoliant to lessen the occurrence of whiteheads, and take care of some rough texture/redness.

I will be buying some mandelic acid 5% from GOW. Could someone describe the difference between AHA and BHA? I know that AHA is glycolic, and BHA is salicylic, and that AHA is stronger. But they still do the same thing? ie, penetrate farther into the skin than mandelic acid. Is BHA gentler but as effective as AHA? Basically, my skin is slowly getting to "normal," ie no dry patches, less sebum production so I don't want to do anything to screw that up. I'm interested in purchasing some samples sizes to see what works best for me.

I notice that BHA tonics have organic grape alcohol as an ingredient. Wouldn't this just dry out the skin and kick up oil production?

Also, I read somewhere that in order to be effective, AHA/BHA must be below a certain pH level (I think below 4.5). Does it matter how much lower? I see that there are tonics with 1.9 and 3.2 pH levels.

This is what the information page linked on GOW says (http://www.gardenofwisdom.com/f/Acids_newsletter.pdf):

Quote:

The objective of neutralization is to raise the pH from below 2 to a value of 3.5, to provide a safe, effective product that approximates the skin's natural pH of 4.2 to 5.6.

Quote:

AHA preparations designed for home use generally are neutralized or buffered to a pH of
3.5 to 4.5. Agents used for superficial office peels may be more acidic (pH 0.9 to 2.75).
Peeling solutions with a pH below 2 have the potential to induce crusting and necrosis,
which is not seen with the partially neutralized solutions. There is no evidence that
creating necrosis or epidermolysis leads to a more favorable result of the peel. Therefore,
the use of partially neutralized glycolic acid solutions seems prudent, since they have a
better safety profile than low-pH solutions containing only free glycolic acid (Becker et
al., 1996).

I came across ClarityRX 7.5% Glycolic Exfoliator. Cute packaging, but my god, the price. Anyway, it says the pH level is between 1-2. Is this an indication that it will cause peeling and crusting?

Also, what's better: using a glycolic cleanser or (leave-on) exfoliator?

free skin care · Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:28 pm

I think Paula's Choice AHA/BHA products are the best option around. They are simple and have a variety of formulations. You should also check out her website for info on the differences between AHA/BHA. But basically, AHA is for those just concerned about fine lines and improving complexion whereas BHA can be used for all of the above, AND helps with acne/blemishes. Some people not concerned with acne/blemishes typically go with AHA because it comes in higher concentrations, leading people to think that it would work better, but there really isn't a difference between over the coutner AHA and BHA products at maximal concentrations.

As for pH, there was another topic that addresses this question - perhaps you could look into that http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=44423

free skin care · Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:48 am

Don't think about the difference between AHA and BHA but the differences between each individual acid. Lactic is an AHA with hydrating properties and large molecules, so cannot penetrate deeply and is considered the most gentle. Salicylic is oil soluble so considered the best for clearing blocked pores, but is quite drying. Glycolic and mandelic have their own niches and potencies.

If you have your OCM cloth and a Clarisonic you should not need any further daily exfoliation, in fact you may damage the skin's barrier by doing so. Your barrier has already been damaged, evidenced by the dry patches roughness and redness. The alcohol *may* be in the product to strip the skin's oils so the salicylic acid can more easily penetrate. IMO applying that daily will undo all the progress you have made with the OCM. IMO you would be better off doing a light peel or two to shift the whiteheads. Lactic acid worked surprisingly well on my chin area, I tried this as I have sensitive skin. I purchased 88% lactic acid and dilute with water - working on percentages not pH. This means you have total control over the strength; I started very conservatively and slowly worked my way up.

IMO pH is a pain to work with because it is a logarithmic not linear scale. That means 4.5 is ten times more acidic than 5.5, 3.5 is ten times more acidic than 4.5 so one hundred times more acidic than pH 5.5! You can safely neutralise many low strength acids with tap water, because water is ~7 (neutral but more alkaline than skin, which is ~5.5). I do wonder if GOW are deliberately trying to blind customers with science ... Confused

ETA: I've just looked at that GOW newsletter and I would suggest you completely disregard it. 'Clark 1996' is meaningless without the reference to the paper itself because their claims cannot be checked! Plus scientific understanding of the structure and function of the stratus corneum has changed MASSIVELY since the 1990s. Shock

If that is indicative of GOW's standards you might think of shopping elsewhere.

free skin care · Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:57 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

I do wonder if GOW are deliberately trying to blind customers with science ... Confused

The info quoted above is pretty basic IMO, nothing blinding about it. I think GoW offers some great products but like any line there will hits and misses.

onmyboat wrote:

Also, I read somewhere that in order to be effective, AHA/BHA must be below a certain pH level (I think below 4.5). Does it matter how much lower? I see that there are tonics with 1.9 and 3.2 pH levels.

Ideal pH's for BHA would be between 3.2-3.7 and for AHA 3.5-4. Anything lower would be more irritating then necessary and anything higher would be not be effective. I agree with oasisjc that Paula's Choice has an excellent line of AHA/BHA products.

free skin care · Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:08 pm

I looked at Paula's Choice products but they contain parabens and Tetrasodium EDTA, Chlorphenesin, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol. I've already spent untold amounts of money on products that irritated/exacerbated my problems, before I started paying attention to ingredients lists. So I'm really hesitant to enter another cycle of throwing money away.

As I mentioned in another thread, I ended up buying the Reviva Labs Glycolic cream. I'll start off using it maybe twice a week, as my skin tone improved a lot once I stopped using physical exfoliants, so I understand that more frequent use ≠ better results.

Ingredients: Purified water, 5% glycolic acid polymer (extracts of sugar and rhubarb), extracts of pumpkin, peach, sage, comfrey, chamomile, witch hazel, vitamins A, D, E, safflower oil, sunflower oil.

Firefox7275, you seem to know what you're talking about - can you recommend some reading material regarding skin care? Links, or textbooks? I'd like to read up on the chemistry of skin and how different chemicals actually interact with it. There's a bunch of dermatology textbooks on Amazon but it's hard to know which one's worthwhile. There's also a lot of books written by people with the intent of selling product. So it's hard to get any kind of academic agenda-free information.

free skin care · Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:49 pm

onmyboat wrote:

Firefox7275, you seem to know what you're talking about - can you recommend some reading material regarding skin care? Links, or textbooks? I'd like to read up on the chemistry of skin and how different chemicals actually interact with it. There's a bunch of dermatology textbooks on Amazon but it's hard to know which one's worthwhile. There's also a lot of books written by people with the intent of selling product. So it's hard to get any kind of academic agenda-free information.

I don't have any skin textbooks because my professional background is lifestyle healthcare! This aspect of dermatology is fast moving anyway, so you'd risk ending with a dated text. If you are willing to wade deep into the biochemistry, this article is excellent
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00644.x/full
You can use some of the links at the bottom or search elsewhere if you want more information on any aspect.

Here are some easier to digest full text reviews on cosmeceuticals, antioxidants and so on. You might skim the index of the last five years and see what catches your eye?
http://www.skintherapyletter.com/2008/index.html

And then here is the index PubMed. Search for any term you pull out of the above articles, click the reviews or full text link to narrow your search. I've plugged a search term in collagen aloe so you can see the review and full text filter on the upper right side
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=collagen%20aloe
You can read the abstracts of any papers as they generally include the 'headline' results, but TBH any reviews have brought together the most interesting research. Sometimes you can find a copy of a full text article by Googling it's title.

Lastly you could try Google Books to see if there is a preview of a book you might be interested
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E4beFFgwJyMC&pg=PA334&lpg=PA334#v=onepage&q&f=false

The author of the first article was the father of Retin-A but he is not plugging that aspect. A review would not be accepted for publication in a respected journal if it showed bias and they tend to be easier for the layman to read. For books the publisher is the giveaway as to whether it is commercial or rigorously peer-reviewed.

free skin care · Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:58 pm

onmyboat wrote:

Firefox7275, you seem to know what you're talking about - can you recommend some reading material regarding skin care? Links, or textbooks? I'd like to read up on the chemistry of skin and how different chemicals actually interact with it. There's a bunch of dermatology textbooks on Amazon but it's hard to know which one's worthwhile. There's also a lot of books written by people with the intent of selling product. So it's hard to get any kind of academic agenda-free information.

I don't have any skin textbooks because my professional background is lifestyle healthcare! This aspect of dermatology is fast moving anyway, so you'd risk ending with a dated text. If you are willing to wade deep into the biochemistry, this article is excellent
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2011.00644.x/full
You can use some of the links at the bottom or search elsewhere if you want more information on any aspect.

Here are some easier to digest full text reviews on cosmeceuticals, antioxidants and so on. You might skim the index of the last five years and see what catches your eye?
http://www.skintherapyletter.com/2008/index.html

And then here is the index PubMed. Search for any term you pull out of the above articles, click the reviews or full text link to narrow your search. I've plugged a search term in collagen aloe so you can see the review and full text filter on the upper right side
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=collagen%20aloe
You can read the abstracts of any papers as they generally include the 'headline' results, but TBH any reviews have brought together the most interesting research. Sometimes you can find a copy of a full text article by Googling it's title.

Lastly you could try Google Books to see if there is a preview of a book you might be interested
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E4beFFgwJyMC&pg=PA334&lpg=PA334#v=onepage&q&f=false
This is promising because it's a collection of chapters by experts who will have been invited to contribute. Unfortunately the newer edition is the usual $$$ for a medical text.

The author of the first article was the father of Retin-A but he is not plugging that aspect. A review would not be accepted for publication in a respected journal if it showed bias and they tend to be easier for the layman to read. For books the publisher is the giveaway as to whether it is commercial or rigorously peer-reviewed.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.