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Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:18 am |
So after reading a few thousands posts, LOL, I have bought some of the products recommended here. But how do I layer all of these products?? When do I apply which product?? Here's what I have bought so far:
Divine Derriere bleaching cream
Retin A Micro
Rosehip Seed Oil
DIY Vitamin C body spray serum
DIY Vitamin C, E, Ferulic face serum
Amlactin body lotion
Smoky Mountain Estriol Face Cream
MUAC Lactic Acid Peel 55%
Obagi Nu Derm sunscreen
I also plan on buying Skin Biology's Skin Signals Cream, a daily AHA face cream (which one?), ROC Retinol, and Easy Eye Solutions. Have I left out any other essentials? But first I need to know how/when to layer all of these products? It is mind boggling! LOL |
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:45 am |
Is the Obagi a chemical or physical sunscreen? Why so many products - presumably some are for body and some for face? What has your dermatologist/ pharmacist/ family doctor advised for the Retin-A?
IMO these are not all essential and using so much could stress your skin and be counterproductive. You should definitely not start retinoic acid, ascorbic acid, lactic acid peels AND an AHA cream at the same time, just one at once. A useful thread on layering and wait times, taking pH into consideration
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18360 |
_________________ Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:22 am |
Thanks for the reply!
Is the Obagi a chemical or physical sunscreen?
I have no clue. It reads "Obagi Nu Derm Healthy Skin Protection SPF 35."
Why so many products - presumably some are for body and some for face?
I didn't realize that was a lot?! I have seen many members here list way more products than mine in their daily regimen. Yes, some are for the face, some are for the body. I have seen Youtube videos promoting most of these products for anti-aging. I just don't know how to layer everything?!
What has your dermatologist/ pharmacist/ family doctor advised for the Retin-A?
I bought the Retin A Micro at Inhousepharmacy web site to save money. My derm prescribed it years ago for wrinkles, and I took about 2 years off and want to resume it for its anti-aging effects.
The area around my eyes is starting to wrinkle, I'm getting lines on my cheeks when I smile, I have "11s," and my neck is sagging and wrinkling. If I don't do something NOW, I'm in big trouble. |
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:08 am |
You need to know what type of sunscreen that is - a physical one (zinc/ titanium etc) goes on last, a chemical one needs to absorb into your skin. We can't help you layer unless you distinguish between products for the face and for the body! What did you dermatologist recommend for the Retin-A, no matter when you saw them last?
Some EDS members do use a lot of products, but only a minority get away with so many acids without experiencing frequent irritation or damaging the skin barrier. Skin dehydrates more easily as we age which makes wrinkles more visible, an overly aggressive routine will increase that. Be sure to use some products that are designed to repair the barrier, replace lost lipids, gently encourage collagen production. IMO panicking is an easy mistake - stress is damaging to the skin, plus if you add in too many products you will have no idea which one (or which combination) is making your skin freak out. A new routine also needs to be manageable, if you overwhelm yourself you may end up quitting.
ETA: your sunscreen has both chemical and physical agents, so presumably needs to be layered under moisturisers containing oil. It *may* be able to go over serums providing they do not contain occlusives such as silicones (labelled -cone, -xane, -conol). You may find the chemical agent causes a negative reaction if you experience flaking or irritation from the acids, so keep an eye out for this.
Also just noticed you intend to use retinoic acid (Retin-A) AND retinol (ROC), why when these are both forms of vitamin A? Are you accidentally doubling up on any other actives? Are you aware you cannot use copper peptides (Skin Biology) with vitamin C? |
_________________ Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:44 am |
Fairydogmother wrote: |
So after reading a few thousands posts, LOL, I have bought some of the products recommended here. But how do I layer all of these products?? When do I apply which product?? Here's what I have bought so far:
Divine Derriere bleaching cream
Retin A Micro
Rosehip Seed Oil
DIY Vitamin C body spray serum
DIY Vitamin C, E, Ferulic face serum
Amlactin body lotion
Smoky Mountain Estriol Face Cream
MUAC Lactic Acid Peel 55%
Obagi Nu Derm sunscreen
I also plan on buying Skin Biology's Skin Signals Cream, a daily AHA face cream (which one?), ROC Retinol, and Easy Eye Solutions. Have I left out any other essentials? But first I need to know how/when to layer all of these products? It is mind boggling! LOL |
Have you used all of these products before? If not, I would suggest adding only 1 product in at a time. If you develop a reaction, and you are using all of those products, you won't know which product(s) caused the reaction. |
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:11 pm |
Thanks for the replies!
Oh my. This is way more technical than I thought. LOL
The Obagi sunscreen reads "Octinoxate" and "Zinc Oxide."
Here's what I was thinking about doing:
Divine Derriere bleaching cream--face, hands, arms, parts of legs with age spots, chest
Retin A Micro--face, neck, chest, hands
Rosehip Seed Oil--after shower all over face and body at night (for lipids?) I also have Jojoba.
DIY Vitamin C body spray serum--after shower on body at night
DIY Vitamin C, E, Ferulic face serum--after shower on face, neck, chest at night
Amlactin body lotion--all over body in the morning
Smoky Mountain Estriol Face Cream--face
MUAC Lactic Acid Peel 55%--once a week on face and neck
Obagi Nu Derm sunscreen--face and neck in the morning
Not sure if I should add or subtract any products? I am new to all of this anti-aging stuff.
I saw a 44 year old woman on Youtube who looked AMAZING and I wish I could post her video but EDS won't let me post links cause I'm new. Her channel is "MattieRobertsShow." I watched the video "My favorite topical anti-aging products." She recommends Amlactin, MUAC Lactic Peels, Skinceuticals C/E/Ferulic, Retin A, and ROC Retinol. That's where I got the idea.
The dermatologist never really gave me any directions on the Retin A Micro. I asked her what would help with wrinkles and she wrote me a prescription many years ago. That was about it.
I haven't really started anything yet except for the DIY Vitamin C body spray and I sprayed some on my face, too.
My skin looks great when I do intermittent fasting or fast for a day, but I can't do that very often. LOL |
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Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:32 pm |
Mattie Roberts does indeed look amazing and her YouTube entries are refreshingly honest about how restrictive her diet is and that she uses injectables too. Ms Roberts has built up to her current routine over a long period, and admits she doesn't suffer with sensitivity IIRC. Until you start an aggressive skincare routine you will not know how your skin is going to react. You have the rest of your life to work on this; if you feel frustrated focus on cleaning up your diet and lifestyle as this will support your skin in regenerating.
Body is easier to tackle first ... so you would like to use Amlactin (acid), a bleaching cream (irritant), vitamin C (acid), rosehip seed oil. Firstly what is the pH of your body cleansing product? Is it a regular shower gel contain sulphate surfactants? If so you might consider switching to a sulphate-free product, because sulphates are alkaline, irritant and dehydrating. Secondly I would start with the Amlactin ONLY and leave the other two out for now. This is because lactic acid is exfoliating AND hydrating AND will help with age spots AND is naturally found in the skin. This will boost the general condition of your skin and prepare it for the other products. Amlactin is 12% lactic acid so this is not a cop out. If you would like to save money in the future you can DIY Amlactin from 88% lactic acid plus CeraVe cream (contains the right balance of fatty acids for skin health).
After a few weeks once your skin has settled in you might add in the vitamin C spray. Depending on the pH of your shower product you will probably need to wait between showering and applying - see the thread linked to in post two for why. My reservations here are how long it takes for the acid mantle of body skin to regenerate, given the lack of sebaceous glands. If the skin's pH doesn't reset, the vitamin C will not be absorbed. You could use rosehip seed oil once the product has absorbed. I don't find rosehip seed oil absorbs that well on drier areas, but works better after a lactic acid peel (= Amlactin) or if I emulsify in the hand with aloe vera gel. But YMMV.
Retinoic acid, vitamin C and lactic acid will help keep your skin healthy/ younger looking. Divine Derriere contains nasty chemicals (hydroquinone), which do not improve the condition of your skin. I would not let that near my skin, especially when using other products that make the barrier more permeable, but that is your choice. Hopefully someone else will be able to advise on compatibility.
Face ... I would say do a lactic acid peel sooner rather than later for exfoliation. HOWEVER a 55% is too strong IMO, advice varies but it's safest to start with ~30% for three minutes. That way you learn how your skin reacts and get to practice your application and neutralising technique. I do have very sensitive skin but it has taken me months to work up to ~44%! I peel weekly or fortnightly based on what I think my skin needs. The Estriol cream contains "water, propylene glycol, sorbitol, glyceryl stearate, stearic acid, dimethicone, steareth-2, steareth-20, retinol-A (retinyl palmitate), vitamin E acetate, USP estriol, methyl paraben, propyl paraben" The silicone could be a problem because they are occlusive and could block later actives in later products. You will need to watch for irritation when combining parabens with exfoliating acids. Also note it contains a vitamin A derivative = Retin-A and ROC retinol.
That is me done for now as I have written an essay; I am not going to advise on layering as there are way too many products and it's beyond my knowledge base. Really you need to know the pH of everything - maybe purchase some pH test strips on eBay. The sunscreen is confusing me, the chemical part has to absorb into the skin, but if it's layered first the zinc may block other actives. |
_________________ Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:58 am |
Thanks for the information!
OK, I will start slowly. I looked at the link you provided and found this layering protocol:
-Cleanser (may need to wait before exfoliate, if pH is a concern)
I stopped using cleansers after reading this forum. So I just scrub and rinse with water.
-Exfoliate (usually requires a wait time)
I don't have a daily exfoliant. Does anyone have any recommendations? Maybe SB LacSal?
-Toner (Liquid water like products, such as toner/treatment solutions, liquid DMAE)
I don't use toner, either. I didn't know it was important?
-Serum (Copper Serum, treatment Serums, DMAE thicker products)
So here I suppose I would use the DIY C/E/Ferulic, and maybe alternate days use copper peptides in the AM?
-Gel (DMAE, deffrin)
Retin A Micro in the PM?
-Oils (Emu, Jojoba, Almond, etc)
Rosehip Seed Oil in the PM. I really love this oil, especially in the winter when my skin is dry.
-Creams
I just use L'Oreal Hydra Renewal in the AM.
-Sunscreen
Obagi sunscreen in the AM.
-Foundations
I bought Bare Essentials but I rarely use them.
Since I've been using the Rosehip Seed Oil at night, I apply the Amlactin in the morning. I read somewhere here that Rosehip Seed Oil already has vitamin C, retinol, and EFAs in it.
I guess I will skip the Estriol cream for now. Several members here raved about it, but I don't know where I'd fit in it the regimen.
As far as Divine Derriere, I didn't realize that it had nasty chemicals. I read on this forum that it's one substitute for Obagi's Nu Derm program (which I really don't want to spend that much money for!) I have some hyperpigmentation and age spots that I'm trying to lighten.
So, does the DIY C/E/Ferulic lighten skin as well as the hydroquinone in Obagi and Divine Derriere?
There's so much information here, so many thousands of posts, and so many different opinions and product reviews, that it's OVERWHELMING for us newbies! I wish there was a sticky on how to get started and with which proven products for newcomers.
How does this regimen look so far? |
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Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:08 am |
Fairydogmother wrote: |
So, does the DIY C/E/Ferulic lighten skin as well as the hydroquinone in Obagi and Divine Derriere?
There's so much information here, so many thousands of posts, and so many different opinions and product reviews, that it's OVERWHELMING for us newbies! I wish there was a sticky on how to get started and with which proven products for newcomers.
How does this regimen look so far? |
C nor Retin A will help anywhere near as much as hydroquinone for pigmentation issues. There is a reason why it is still considered the gold standard for hyperpigmentation. However, hydroquinone is controversial among people and their beliefs.
I personally would start with only the A and C (alternating them at night) and a sunscreen daily on your face. Give it time and see if that doesn't help with your pigmentation issues (at least 6 months). Then, you can add your other products, 1 at a time, to see how each works. Just my 2 cents. |
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Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:25 am |
whew... you have been a lot given great advice here.
When I first started a skin care regime, I used a ton of products. In time, I learned less is more. My routine is very simple - and my skin has never looked better. Take it easy - add just one thing at a time. |
_________________ 42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:26 pm |
You are doing great so don't beat yourself up. Skincare is a constant learning curve, few of us have it down pat. Exfoliator ... I would not add any more chemicals because your skin may be sensitised when you start with the acids. Maybe purchase a stack of unbleached muslin cloths or a few microfibre waffle weave cloths? Use a clean cloth each day since you are not using a specific cleanser (not a problem, just best not to redistribute oils or bacteria).
"Rosehip oil is the only vegetable oil, which contains natural tretinoin, the acid form of vitamin A also known as all-trans-retinoic acid or ATRA in quantities of 125mcg per every 100g. Shelf life is normally 6 months but Aromantic adds 0.5% vitamin E oil to our rosehip oils just after production, so the shelf life is extended to 2 years."
http://www.aromantic.co.uk/buy-rosehip-oil-with-05-vitamin-e-oil-organic-uk.htm
My candy floss brain thinks 125mcg = 0.125mg = 0.000125g = 0.000125%; compare to Retin-A or retinol product if you wish.
I have never found a reliable source stating the vitamin C content of rosehip seed oil. I wonder if this is erroneous information that has simply been copied and pasted from article to article, since rosehip fruits are rich in vitamin C. Perhaps someone else can clarify? |
_________________ Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:37 am |
The easiest thing to do is layer thinnest to thickest and make sure that the ingredients work well together.
I use a retinol at night and a vitamin c serum in the morning, since using them together at the same time is too irritating for skin. Sounds like you're using a lot of good oils, though! |
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Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:56 pm |
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