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Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:05 pm |
Nonie aka AD wrote: |
1) Nonie's gospel: NO ONE should start face exercises with resistance training. Everyone should start with toning and add resistance later after their muscles are well prepared for it. It's what I did and it's what the instructors I believe did and there is proof it works.
2) Nonie's gospel: No one with a youthful face--meaning it has tone and mass and would be called "baby face" in a heartbeat by anyone looking at it, should do resistance training. Toning is all they need, period. They most certainly should not indulge in any aggressive resistance training AT ALL! Gentle resistance may be added much later but if toning alone is working now, why fix what isn't broken? Better safe than sorry, and I know toning has never hurt anyone. |
Got it. So Nonie's opinion is
(1) Toning comes before resistance training (regardless of age)
(2) Youthful (i.e., very full) faces should not do resistance exercises, regardless of age.
So you're really not at all opposed to young people doing resistance exercises...you're just opposed to people with full faces doing resistance exercises, correct? And since a lot of young people have full faces, this would include a lot but not all young people.
If that is precisely what you mean, then I think we disagree on point #1 but half-agree/half-disagree on point #2, as I agree that if you have the fullness you want in a region of your face, you shouldn't do resistance exercises in way that will continue to build muscle mass, so toning exercises or modifying resistance exercises are the way to go in those cases.
I know that you think some of our discussions are futile, but I do think it's very helpful to people to clearly spell out whether there is consensus and where there is disagreement in the realm of facial exercises. Don't forget: Things that are obvious to you and me are not obvious to people who are new to facial exercises... |
_________________ 34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:14 am |
Wow cm5597, slow down! Your analytical side is going into overdrive. In the 3rd edition of FE, Deb states that "If a person is relatively young with no sag, then a basic toning regime is all that is needed". I think this statement supports some of Nonie's positions. The two of you seem to get into the same argument repeatedly. The important thing is, we all know that facial exercises work. |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:35 am |
Just to say that I think there are some major errors in preaching that young people shouldn’t begin resistance training on their faces.
I can understand people having experience of perhaps starting out with toning exercises without resistance and having good results but I’m one for empowering people and truly believe there are no limits when it comes to facial training and to state that young people should start with toning and add resistance later on is a very limiting belief and actually I've seen sufficient evidence that proves this is wrong.
I’ve worked with many young people using resistance exercises to see and know that they can and do benefit from resistance exercises. Likewise not all young people will want just tone, some will want build etc and for these resistance exercises are truly going to be more helpful than simple toning exercises. I think its fine for people to share their personal opinion and limited experience, but I think its rather bad of people to make out that there is only one way to do anything because there never is! |
_________________ FlexEffect Trainer |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:37 am |
cm5597 wrote: |
Can you tell me her EDS name?
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Simple, just do an EDS Member search
.... carolynCFF |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:48 am |
Hi Packratmack
Sure this is true, but remember that even if a person is young they can achieve tone through resistance exercises. I think the error thats being presented here is that young people should avoid resistance exercises and believe thats what CM is trying to emphasis here.
Likewise depending where a person is starting off, healthwise, dietwise, sleep wise etc these are all going to play into what results a person achieves too (and thats true for any program out there).
Obviously the forum is visited by many people and I think its very important for them when they read something like young people should not do resistance exercises but only toning exercises and for some this will work, but for others they may need the resistance exercises to achieve their goals. Of course both Nonie and CM are passionate about FE and that comes across in both their messages.
packratmack wrote: |
In the 3rd edition of FE, Deb states that "If a person is relatively young with no sag, then a basic toning regime is all that is needed". I think this statement supports some of Nonie's positions. The two of you seem to get into the same argument repeatedly. The important thing is, we all know that facial exercises work. |
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_________________ FlexEffect Trainer |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:57 am |
SeanySeanUK wrote: |
I think the error thats being presented here is that young people should avoid resistance exercises and believe thats what CM is trying to emphasis here |
Thank you, Sean! That is exactly what I am trying to clarify.
SeanSeanUK wrote: |
...but I think its rather bad of people to make out that there is only one way to do anything because there never is! |
That is also what I am trying to saying. We all are unique with different challenges: some of us need more fullness, others can do exercises without resistance for years and years get all the results they want! There are several paths leading to a final destination--no one size fits all, even for young people
packratmack wrote: |
In the 3rd edition of FE, Deb states that "If a person is relatively young with no sag, then a basic toning regime is all that is needed" |
(Aside from the fact that resistance exercises can be used either for building muscle or just maintaining tone....)
Sure, this is true about easily more than half of young people. But I think a key point about the statement above is that it is implying that this same young person already has a full face and does not need to add fullness to the face. But for the fraction of young people who do need to significantly add fullness to the face, then they need to do resistance exercises.
A great example of a young person needing resistance training is Deb. She was young when she did bodybuilding, lost a lot of weight, and was struggling with gauntness issues; she didn't have sag. So she started resistance training to get rid of her gauntness and to add fullness to her face. So in this case, as a young person needing to get a more full face, resistance exercises are what is called for, not toning exercises. |
_________________ 34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:18 am |
SeanyseanUK wrote: |
Likewise not all young people will want just tone, some will want build etc and for these resistance exercises are truly going to be more helpful than simple toning exercises. |
Again, exactly my point. Thank you for saying that more succinctly and eloquently than me.
And of course, I am passionate about this message because I fall into this minority of young people wanting more build...so I don't want someone else who fits into this category to get the wrong impression from this discussion and to miss out!
cm5597 wrote: |
Wow cm5597, slow down! Your analytical side is going into overdrive...The two of you seem to get into the same argument repeatedly. The important thing is, we all know that facial exercises work. |
Point taken. I need to not let my passion for this subject get me too excited |
_________________ 34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:41 am |
Just want to stick a post Deb's done in another thread which shows a photo and message that I think is perfect as it fits into this discussion nicely:
Deb Crowley wrote: |
I was 32 when I started weight training and during that time I was teaching Facial Isotonics. When I stepped into competitive bodybuilding my face began to drape and became unbelievably gaunt. This is when I developed Facialbuilding
If you look at today's women bodybuilders you'll see what I mean...notice full bodies with faces that look twice their age.
The photo below was taken during prejudging (bodybuilding competition) The close-up is not very clear but you can still see that my cheeks are quite full. I was 5’6” and in the photo 112 lbs (no fat). Without Facialbuilding my face would have look emaciated.
Age 34:
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_________________ FlexEffect Trainer |
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:54 am |
Feel like I need to chime in on this one. It is true... in my book I say..
"If a person is relatively young with no sag, then a basic toning regime is all that is needed". Note the word needed. This does not imply that if the person is young this is the only training they SHOULD do. There are many reasons a young person TEEN and UP might want to go straight to facial resistance training...giving the face more fullness and correcting facial imbalance are two common reasons... and I've worked with many. Facial training is not always about keeping a young face youthful and is often more than that.
For anyone to think someone can be too young to do facial resistance training is just plain ridiculous, especially when we're talking about someone in their 20's. If it were true we would have to do away with a lot of teen sports...weightlifting being one of them. And you don't see Cert. Personal Trainers telling their bodybuilding and other clients that they can't lift weight unless they have done a program of toning exercises for some specified period of time. Stressing muscle is stressing muscle,... our bodies and faces are equipped for that. If you train right and appropriately to your goals, you're fine, if not... you'll find out soon enough and correct it.
Knowing that not everyone wants to build their face but may prefer to just tone it, FlexEffect offers that option. But not because somebody extra young might want to purchase the program.
Lets be honest here. Too young has never really been the issue... not really... It’s just more nonsense to debate about. A serious trainer (one who develops a program) knows, or should know a little more about physiology than that. I’ve not seen any author of facial training state such a thing. But, if they didn’t know better and did say it, I would be hard-pressed to trust anything they have to say about facial training. |
_________________ Founder of FlexEffect Facialbuilding. My Photo Journal: FlexEffect.com/deb-photos |
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Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:22 pm |
Deb Crowley wrote: |
There are many reasons a young person TEEN and UP might want to go straight to facial resistance training...giving the face more fullness and correcting facial imbalance are two common reasons... |
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Facial imbalance....that is an excellent reason...I totally forgot about that one.
I used to have a chin asymmetry, the left side being noticeably larger than the left, but I corrected it with resistance training which built up the right side to make it even with the left, and now my chin looks great That was one of my goals with facial training that I found to be relatively easy to accomplish. So much so, that I often forget I ever had the problem! |
_________________ 34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:14 pm |
I do not want to revive any arguments in this thread, but ask again the original question plus some extras, in hopes there may be updates.
1) If you could have started early, would you have chosen and stuck with a facial exercise program?
2) Do you have a favorite? Why?
3) Have you noticed maintenance of skin tone and prevention of sag as a result of facial exercises over time, but maybe saw more fine lines as a result of the pulling, tugging, squeezing that comes with most programs?
4) If you started once the signs of aging were already visible, were you able to reverse any of them?
5) Any other thoughts, advice?
Of course, I would appreciate backing up your answers with strong arguments
TIA! |
_________________ Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:46 pm |
fitgineer wrote: |
1) If you could have started early, would you have chosen and stuck with a facial exercise program? |
Yes, but I started early
fitgineer wrote: |
2) Do you have a favorite? Why? |
FlexEffect, because it (a) provides the best resistance training exercises and the best cheek exercises, and that's what I need to focus on, as I have a thin face, and (b) it's the most comprehensive program by far, imo. There are other reasons, but these are my 2 main ones.
BUT I don't regret purchasing many of the other programs I have purchased. In particular, I got very valuable things out of Ageless if You Dare and Facercise.
fitgineer wrote: |
3) Have you noticed maintenance of skin tone and prevention of sag as a result of facial exercises over time, but maybe saw more fine lines as a result of the pulling, tugging, squeezing that comes with most programs? |
I started seeing an improvement in skin tone about 4.5 months in to doing FlexEffect.
I haven't had any increases in fine lines or other issues.
I read a LOT on the forums, so I was able to avoid almost all issues with overbuilding and to avoid making mistakes in my training (e.g., overtraining, undertraining, etc.).
fitgineer wrote: |
4) If you started once the signs of aging were already visible, were you able to reverse any of them? |
My face went from gaunt to thin--a really nice improvement. My cheekbones are also higher, plus I carry less tension in my eyebrows, so they now are more lifted.
Oh, my only "line" is a sleep crease on my left hand side, and sleeping with frownies at night got rid of that self-inflicted problem.
I didn't really have other anti-aging benefits, as those were really the only problems I struggled with to start.
Oh, and this isn't really anti-aging, but I had a significant chin asymmetry--like really noticeable. It's like pretty much gone now and my chin looks great now.
fitgineer wrote: |
[5) Any other thoughts, advice?
Of course, I would appreciate backing up your answers with strong arguments
TIA! |
I recommend limiting your search to FlexEffect, Ageless, Carolyn's Facial Fitness, and Facercise (and maybe a couple of others). Any one of those programs should provide a good starting point into the world of facial exercises.
HTH |
_________________ 34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:41 pm |
Thank you for your detailed reply, CM!
FlexEffect was one of the two I was considering (the other being Ageless) because I have been training for fitness/bodybuilding competitions for 3 years, and I figured Deb Crowley would know what fitness competitors have to deal with in terms of their face as they maintain lower body fat than recommended for long periods of time... However, Ageless seems more simple and less time consuming, hence more attractive for my busy schedule right now, and for a beginner. |
_________________ Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:48 am |
fitgineer wrote: |
However, Ageless seems more simple and less time consuming, hence more attractive for my busy schedule right now, and for a beginner. |
To help in your comparison of what might work best for your schedule, FlexEffect has a 12-minute workout (the shortest workout they provide) where you do about 30 exercises a day (covers all voluntary muscles of the face, ~27 muscles, 3 reps per exercise), whereas Ageless has a 5-minute workout where you do 5 exercises a day (focus is on 10 different muscles, 20 reps per exercise). The FlexEffect book, though, takes a lot more time to read through than the Ageless one, just because there's so much more content and it's more comprehensive. |
_________________ 34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:47 pm |
cm5597 wrote: |
fitgineer wrote: |
However, Ageless seems more simple and less time consuming, hence more attractive for my busy schedule right now, and for a beginner. |
To help in your comparison of what might work best for your schedule, FlexEffect has a 12-minute workout (the shortest workout they provide) where you do about 30 exercises a day (covers all voluntary muscles of the face, ~27 muscles, 3 reps per exercise), whereas Ageless has a 5-minute workout where you do 5 exercises a day (focus is on 10 different muscles, 20 reps per exercise). The FlexEffect book, though, takes a lot more time to read through than the Ageless one, just because there's so much more content and it's more comprehensive. |
Thank you, this helps a lot! |
_________________ Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:29 am |
Well I am not sure if I answered before, but sometimes its helpful to get a few opinions so here goes:
1) If I could have started earlier – by far I wish I had (I started in my 50’s), then I think I would probably have gone for something like Ageless until I needed something else. Facial Magic was also nice and was one of the first programs I started out with (and at the time it had one of the supermodels advertising it so I figured vanity sake it was worth a shot).
2) I tend to now mix and match. Simply because I’ve done quite a few programs in their entirety over the last 10 years, and each one has given me different results in different places, but one of the foundations I tend to use mostly is parts of FlexEffect (but I hasten to add not all).
3) I have noticed by far improved skin tone, and reversal of sagging for sure. There isn’t much squeezing in the programs I do, but there is by far a lot of pulling but in some cases when I did those exercises I used to feel things working moreso and was desperate for results so that motivated me above everything else.
4) Yes, for sure.
5) Give yourself time with whichever program you go for, and try to get one with support so you can ask questions. FlexEffect has a forum, but some people prefer one to one contact with founders of their programs like Cynthia Rowland or Carolyn Cleaves or even Carole Maggio. Other tips would be to take photos regularly and keep a diary of what you are doing. These help you so much work out what you are doing that’s good and what you are doing that’s not so good.
Good luck
Theresa |
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:54 pm |
Theresa, thank you for your input, very helpful.
Veronica, great find!!! She does look amazing.
One of the comments on the video said that Eva studied under Santa Maria Runge, here is a link to her facial exercise book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56857033/Face-Lifting-by-Exercise-Senta-Maria-Runge
I think it's a little more complex then the rest of the programs available today, but the diagrams can be very helpful! |
_________________ Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:02 am |
Actually Eva studied under someone else, not SMR - although I must admit some of the exercises look similar. SMR's program is nice, and its a bright pink book but I wouldn't say its the most comprehensive out there.
This is the blog from Eva's website:
Eva's Biography
A chance meeting with Madame Hoffman in Germany, led to Eva Fraser, then fifty years of age, to discover and develop her Facial Fitness technique.
Madame Hoffman had devised a method of exercising the facial muscles with the help of a doctor friend in the 1930's. After much persuasion she gave Eva one lesson and then went on to train her for a year in London. The only person to be granted this privilege.
Since 1990 Eva has brought her methods in to the public domain. Through her best selling books, translated in to eight languages, she has won recognition around the world and is approved by dermatologists, and the medical profession in general.
http://www.evafraser.com/eva_fraser_press.html
fitgineer wrote: |
Theresa, thank you for your input, very helpful.
Veronica, great find!!! She does look amazing.
One of the comments on the video said that Eva studied under Santa Maria Runge, here is a link to her facial exercise book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56857033/Face-Lifting-by-Exercise-Senta-Maria-Runge
I think it's a little more complex then the rest of the programs available today, but the diagrams can be very helpful! |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:51 pm |
TheresaMary wrote: |
Actually Eva studied under someone else, not SMR - although I must admit some of the exercises look similar. SMR's program is nice, and its a bright pink book but I wouldn't say its the most comprehensive out there.
This is the blog from Eva's website:
Eva's Biography
A chance meeting with Madame Hoffman in Germany, led to Eva Fraser, then fifty years of age, to discover and develop her Facial Fitness technique.
Madame Hoffman had devised a method of exercising the facial muscles with the help of a doctor friend in the 1930's. After much persuasion she gave Eva one lesson and then went on to train her for a year in London. The only person to be granted this privilege.
Since 1990 Eva has brought her methods in to the public domain. Through her best selling books, translated in to eight languages, she has won recognition around the world and is approved by dermatologists, and the medical profession in general.
http://www.evafraser.com/eva_fraser_press.html
fitgineer wrote: |
Theresa, thank you for your input, very helpful.
Veronica, great find!!! She does look amazing.
One of the comments on the video said that Eva studied under Santa Maria Runge, here is a link to her facial exercise book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56857033/Face-Lifting-by-Exercise-Senta-Maria-Runge
I think it's a little more complex then the rest of the programs available today, but the diagrams can be very helpful! |
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I guess I should have checked her bio page
Btw, the link to the exercise book I posted is actually the full book, readable online, at no cost. |
_________________ Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:01 pm |
VeronicaM I don't believe she has. Her face looks very natural to me and she's very expressive. One thing Eva's first book taught is to learn to relax your face and not to make unnecessary grimaces. I remember becoming very aware of my face and learning not to frown unnecessarily. It helped me develop a habit whereby I only make those expressions when I feel and mean to express that emotion. Yanno?
Some people think the way she talks is a sign that she's had something done, but I don't believe it. Having living in the UK, I have met people who talk like her so it never struck me as odd. |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:16 pm |
She looks amazing |
_________________ female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:12 pm |
fitgineer wrote: |
Btw, the link to the exercise book I posted is actually the full book, readable online, at no cost. |
Thanks fitgineer, I didn't realize it was the whole book for free. I am starting to read it now. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:30 pm |
CookieD wrote: |
fitgineer wrote: |
Btw, the link to the exercise book I posted is actually the full book, readable online, at no cost. |
Thanks fitgineer, I didn't realize it was the whole book for free. I am starting to read it now. |
You're welcome. That website is a gem!
I think it's a little difficult to read compared to modern facial exercise books, but it's full of knowledge, diagrams, etc. Hope you find it useful! |
_________________ Female, born 1985. HW Engineer, Fitness nut. Embarking on the war against the signs of aging... |
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Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:52 am |
Wearing a constant smile is a good facial exercise. Merry and cheerful heart reflects in our face. A happy face looks younger. Frowning makes one older so be cheerful always. |
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Fri Mar 29, 2024 7:30 am |
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