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Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:37 am |
good one!
Thanks for the Chapter 20 reference, it is completely available via Google, so I have spent the better part of my lunch hour today reading that, very interesting.
Other parts are available as well (unfortunately not all)...but I was able to stumble across a few sentences regarding chronic inflammation vs. acute inflammation.
We here have often become concerned regarding the point at which acute (good) inflammation could trigger into chronic (bad) inflammation.
What a pity to end up spending $ and time only to cause more skin aging.
BFG |
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:18 am |
DarkMoon wrote: |
It has been my understanding that Retinol should not be used in the day (some even say inside lighting degrades it) and it causes skin to be more sensitive to the sun? Some essential oils are also not recommended for daytime use due to causing the skin to be photosensitive as well, however those aren't divulged as of this posting.
Correct me where I am misinformed please. |
Two parts to this answer. The first is that retinoids other than tretinoin (e.g. Retin-A) have in recent studies been shown to be as effective as tretinoin but not nearly as irritating. Sun sensitivity goes along with this, so it is less with retinoids (but not absent).
Some of the sun sensitivity has to do with oxidation of the molecule itself when exposed to sunlight. How fast it gets converted to its active (and most irritating) form. So you will notice a number of high OREC antioxidants in the accelerator to accompany the retonoids. Think of them as molecular shepherds.
Now, in addition, we of course advise a top layer of physical sunscreen over the accelerator during the day. More on that later.
OK, now the other principle is that not everyone's skin is the same. Some are more sensitive than others. |
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:49 pm |
Perhaps because cytokines are a relatively new player on the scene.
BFG |
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:00 pm |
DrJ wrote: |
I think it is quite remarkable that nobody asks about stem cytokines, the superstar of the show, and definitely more unique than the supporting characters, who have all been around a while. Is that because you are all thoroughly convinced from our chats in the stem cell/cytokines thread? Or are you just waiting until midnight to come after me with torches and pitchforks? |
I think no one is talking about them at the moment because you asked for a top 5 ingredient and that was not one of them to choose from!
Also, they are new and I don't know if we have enough info to judge them yet. |
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:40 pm |
Panda1,
I have to say, some of the best skin care products out there are from smaller companies... Garden of Wisdom, Skin Actives, just to name a few. Just my opinion - but the size of the company makes no difference to me. |
_________________ 42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:22 pm |
DrJ wrote: |
rileygirl wrote: |
Dr. J, where do you get the MSC's? Is this from bone marrow, or another organ? Am I thinking correctly that this is where MSC's come from? |
Bone marrow. MSC's also also live in the "perivascular space" (around small arterioles) in many parts of the body,including skin. Think 1 alarm fire (local FD) to 2 alarm fire (local + neighboring cities FD), to 3 alarm fire (all units responding backed up by county & state resources). |
Ok. Thank you! Now, how are you making sure this is safe for us consumers? |
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Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:27 am |
Has Leslie Baumann been asked to speak on the stem-cells-for-skin issue? LOL
That's when you'll know, lol.
BFG |
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:37 am |
I know, me too!
I love the "let's talk with Dr Sebaugh" **LIVE VIA SATELLITE** segment....! |
_________________ 42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:38 am |
I needed a laugh, thanks,
But hey... GOW and Skin Actives carries it. So I wonder if there is anything to it... |
_________________ 42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:02 pm |
I did ask in all sincerity. The infomercial is cheesy, but I did not know anything about the effectiveness of the active, SOD.
Thanks Dr J -- good to know about it's limitations. |
_________________ 42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:33 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
DrJ wrote: |
OK - laminaria is out - gold is in.
If it doesn't reduce wrinkles it will at least gold plate them.
If everyone would just send me your gold, I will further this research.
Biol Pharm Bull. 2012;35(2):260-4.
Anti-glycation effect of gold nanoparticles on collagen.
Kim JH, Hong CO, Koo YC, Choi HD, Lee KW.
Source
Department of Food Bioscience and Technology, College of Life Sciences and Biotechnology, Korea University, Seoul, Republic of Korea.
Abstract
Gold nanoparticles (GNPs) have been reported to exhibit a variety of biological effects including anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant activities. The extent of an in vitro glycation reaction mixture of collagen and glycolaldehyde was assayed to investigate the inhibition of glycolaldehye-derived advanced glycation end products (glycol-AGEs) formation with GNPs in collagen, which is a major protein component of the human dermis. GNP-treated collagen showed significantly less glycation (56.3 ± 4.2%) than an untreated glycation control. Moreover, GNP-treated glycation in a collagen lattice model significantly decreased the AGEs distribution in the model system. Taken together, these results suggest that GNPs have the potential for use in the prevention of glycation-induced skin aging. |
Is it?
SKIN DEEP
Gold Face Cream: A Costly Leap of Faith
By JENNIFER A. KINGSON
Published: May 24, 2010
CHRISTINE VALMY’S Golden Collagen facial mask is a visual and tactile delight: gelatinous, face-shaped and thoroughly golden, it arrives in a sheer plastic enclosure that invites you to squish it the way that bubble wrap begs you to pop it.
I couldn’t wait to put it on and lie down for the recommended time. Cool and slimy, it feels like Jell-O on the face.
The rash that erupted the next day did not.
Click here for the rest of the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/27/fashion/27skinWEB.html?pagewanted=all |
They wanted research results, now they have them (note the older date of the NYT story).
Gold is remarkable inert, nontoxic. Unlike copper. I've got it - we will do gold peptides. GHK-Au. Dr.P will be so jealous! |
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Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:33 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
My 'fantastic new actives' are "plant extracts", specifically White Tea; (well not exactly new for me, I've been loving/using white tea for a while.) Preventing destruction to collagen & elastin should be a goal for all.. It's never too late to start, but boy do I wish I were 30 or 40 again..
Anti-elastase activities were observed for nine of the extracts with inhibitory activity in the following order: white tea (~89%), cleavers (~58%), burdock root (~51%), bladderwrack (~50%), anise and angelica (~32%). Anti-collagenase activities were exhibited by sixteen plants of which the highest activity was seen in white tea (~87%), green tea (~47%), rose tincture (~41%), and lavender (~31%). Nine plant extracts had activities against both elastase (E) and collagenase (C) and were ranked in the order of white tea (E:89%, C:87%) > bladderwrack (E:50%, C:25%) > cleavers (E:58%, C:7%) > rose tincture (E:22%, C:41%) > green tea (E:10%: C:47%) > rose aqueous (E: 24%, C:26%) > angelica (E:32%, C:17%) > anise (E:32%, C:6%) > pomegranate (E:15%, C:11%).
Read all about it here;
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/9/27
I'm working on a nice water based serum to use alone or in conjunction with LED treatments, but for those of you who DIY and can't wait, you can find a bunch of these great extracts @
http://www.theherbarie.com/White-Peony-Tea-Extract--pr-23.html
If any other DIY junkies give it a go maybe we can start a thread to share ideas.. |
That sounds like a lovely idea, I already have my pure EGCG green tea derived and high quality, but was also looking into purchasing the White Tea pure extract to compliment it. (both powdered not liquid) |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:42 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
That sounds like a lovely idea, I already have my pure EGCG green tea derived and high quality, but was also looking into purchasing the White Tea pure extract to compliment it. (both powdered not liquid) |
I'm thinking of getting the powdered extract myself.. .5oz is enough to make a 1 & 1/2 gallons fluid volume..
Also, I find that even refrigerated, tea extracts loose their oomph too quickly.. I'm definitely going for the powder. |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:53 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
DarkMoon wrote: |
That sounds like a lovely idea, I already have my pure EGCG green tea derived and high quality, but was also looking into purchasing the White Tea pure extract to compliment it. (both powdered not liquid) |
I'm thinking of getting the powdered extract myself.. .5oz is enough to make a 1 & 1/2 gallons fluid volume..
Also, I find that even refrigerated, tea extracts loose their oomph too quickly.. I'm definitely going for the powder. |
My thoughts exactly, once in water it starts losing efficacy very fast, so powder just mkes sense to me! I would much prefer to make it often and have all the goodies preserved than waste my time on nothing! |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:22 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Kassy_A wrote: |
DarkMoon wrote: |
That sounds like a lovely idea, I already have my pure EGCG green tea derived and high quality, but was also looking into purchasing the White Tea pure extract to compliment it. (both powdered not liquid) |
I'm thinking of getting the powdered extract myself.. .5oz is enough to make a 1 & 1/2 gallons fluid volume..
Also, I find that even refrigerated, tea extracts loose their oomph too quickly.. I'm definitely going for the powder. |
My thoughts exactly, once in water it starts losing efficacy very fast, so powder just mkes sense to me! I would much prefer to make it often and have all the goodies preserved than waste my time on nothing! |
Hello Kassy & DM,
Just wanted to share the idea that the stability of green tea extract goodies (the egcg bit) could be extended dramatically by adding BHT and EDTA to the formula. I learned about this from Carol Demas (defunct Biochemistry of Beauty forum) and buy both my BHT and EDTA from Bulkactives.
I'm still too new to post (sorry) but for some back-up research if interested, you could possibly google the following paper titles:
1) Pharmacokinetics of the green tea derivative, EGCG, by the topical route of administration in mouse and human skin
Key finding: In a non-stabilized cream, 10% EGCG was lost after 2 days at 37 °C, but the same formulation supplemented with 0.1% butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT) had significantly longer stability with ≥90% EGCG remaining after 130 days at 37 °C.
2) Preformulation study of epigallocatechin gallate, a promising antioxidant for topical skin cancer prevention
Key finding: The solution stability of EGCG was prolonged in glycerin and Transcutol P compared with an aqueous environment. The addition of 0.1% concentrations of several antioxidants in combination with 0.025% EDTA caused variable effects on EGCG stability. Butylated hydroxytoluene in glycerin produced the greatest stability improvement for EGCG. The t90 (time for 10% degradation to occur) was 76.1 days at 50°C.
I think it's the latter article that goes more into effects of pH, temp, presence of glycerine etc, but it's BHT which is the star life-saver.
Works for me, anyways. Or at least I hope it does
Hope that maybe helps a little...I have learned so much from both of you! |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:28 pm |
Whatever the case may be, unpleasant exchanges like the one we just removed are truly not appreciated here. If you wish to participate further, then please ensure your posts are directly on topic without any animosity, inflammatory language or reference to personal differences or they too will be removed irrespective of any useful content they may have.
Please do not post any comments to the moderation itself. Thank you. |
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Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:09 am |
DM: Thanks a lot for the links. Btw, it looks like the last one posted is the pre-publication extract of the first link you've posted (which actually is the full text version reproduced at a different site)...so no need to pay for it
^^ sorry that sounds confusing - I still can't post links so couldn't quote your post to make it clearer |
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Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:55 am |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Dr. J as I said I can't speak for you and yes I posted studies however can we still get your input on Vitamin D as an active as Riley asked? I am interested also so it would be appreciated.
Thanks |
We have long known that Vit.D is both a vitamin and a hormone, and that UV light stimulates Vit.D phosphorylation, making it active. But Vit.D may also act locally in tissues, skin in particular, as a cytokine (signaling molecule) when DNA damage has occurred, creating a protective, anti-aging role. Vit D exhibits immunomodulatory, anti-proliferative and cancer preventive activities on cells. Vitamin D(3)-induced autophagy contributes to anti-aging, antimicrobial defense, and tumor suppression. Vit D has been tested in PLE (polymorphic light eruption) and lichen spinulosis with good results. Calcipotriol is a Vit.D derivative that is now a first line agent in treating psoriasis.
Here is my thought. Have we yet discovered a vitamin that is NOT good for skin? Think about it, Vit A, D, E, K, and most of the B’s have well proven direct or indirect benefits. |
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Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:51 am |
DrJ wrote: |
Have we yet discovered a vitamin that is NOT good for skin? |
I rest my case.
BFG |
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Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:40 pm |
Cracked heels...wow, I'd like to have back all the money I spent on various creams trying to get rid of those until I finally found the cheap miracle cure - apple cider vinegar.
Periodically, I soak my feet in an ACV bath ( I used to dilute with water, no longer do that)...for about 30 - 45 minutes, usually while computing or watching TV. I then jump into the shower, take my buffing tool and watch the skin just fall off into the shower and down the drain. Since doing this, I have never had another problem with rough feet...they are smooth like a baby, even in winter.
BFG |
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Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:35 pm |
DrJ wrote: |
Could we just start a thread on food and cosmetic QUACKERY and start calling the spades spades? |
Maybe you'd be interested in busting some myths on this thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=44869 |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:09 am |
DrJ wrote: |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
...but it's my understanding that this type of collagen (Neocell) is ingested orally, not slathered on top of the skin.
I am unsure of it's mechanism for improvement. The only thing I am aware of with evidence behind it is the Biosil product...but would love to get info on others, if there are any.
BFG |
OK, let's talk digestion. If you eat any protein, whether animal hides (collagen) or any other, it gets broken down to small peptides and amino acids. Same as if you eat Knox gelatin, or hamburger, which ounce for ounce is a lot cheaper.
Our diet is already too high in protein, so it's not helping a darn thing. You are adding to the problem. 20 years of that and it's "goodbye kidneys".
In fact, on a scale of protein quality (which has to do with the balance of amino acids) - eggs are near the top of the list, and collagen is near the bottom.
So next time you are tempted to suck on the byproducts of the slaughterhouse, go make yourself some eggs instead. But for max health limit all protein to less than 1 gm/kg/day. |
THANK YOU! It's important people read this, since upping your protein intake is propagated in practically every thread on facial exercise, suggesting our regular diet is too low on protein. Even though the advised amounts today are literally double what was advised when I was a child. |
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Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:59 am |
DrJ wrote: |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Water, vegetable glycerin, lactic acid, urea (carbamide), aloe vera leaf juice, hyaluronic acid, green tea leaf extract, vitamin C, sea salt |
Its mainly glycerin. Cheap, effective. |
Yes, it is, cheap and Effective. |
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Wed May 02, 2012 9:49 am |
1. Most often we also use a form of exfoliation, which stimulates skin cell turnover, and I guess that would negate the skin renewal slowing effect, if there is any.
2. Dry skin gets damaged more easily. Fine lines that can easily develop into deep wrinkles. Cold cream does not contain any hyaluronic acid as far as I know. My guess would be that an excess of ha from the outside would most probably stifle the production of ha in the skin (signals that there's enough of it) so that could in time make your skin dry from the inside. But that would only happen if you would use very much of it I guess, and only be an issue if your skin doesn't have a problem with dryness to begin with.
3. Lots of actives promise to enhance your own skin's production of ha. That is also one of the effects of hormone replacement therapy on the skin. Apparently a good amount of ha is considered beneficial and anti-aging.
So I am very curious what dr J has to say on all this. Don't the cytokines in his products stimulate the production of ha in the skin? |
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