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Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:18 pm  |
Yes, understood.
This appears to be the same way it works with most (if not all) hormone supplementation. Maybe it could go without saying that more often, those most desirous of improvement in elasticity are the same ones in a hormone deficient state and therefore most interested in knowing about this.
BFG |
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Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:05 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Yes, understood.
This appears to be the same way it works with most (if not all) hormone supplementation. Maybe it could go without saying that more often, those most desirous of improvement in elasticity are the same ones in a hormone deficient state and therefore most interested in knowing about this.
BFG |
Good logic. Agree. And there are tests to detect such things. Good idea to check that out. |
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Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:56 pm |
I could scrape up a few of my "native" cells and sell them for a few bucks. Utter bunkim. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:36 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Dr J, are there any other ingredients (other than the retinoid acid and cytokines that you talked about in your article) that improve elastin? |
CPs are suppose to help with collegen and elastin, riley.
From SB:
| Quote: |
Biological Actions of Copper Peptides
Cellular Actions
Increases the proliferation of repair cells: fibroblasts, keratinocytes, chondrocytes, osteoblasts; increases nerve outgrowth, blood vessel angiogenesis, density of subcutaneous fat cells, and hair follicle size.
Biochemical Actions
Attracts healing cells (capillary cells, macrophages, mast cells), increases synthesis of collagen, elastin, metalloproteinases, anti-proteases, vascular endothelial growth factor, fibroblast growth factor 2, nerve growth factor, neutrotropins 3 and 4, erythropoietin; lowers blood pressure by inducing vasodilation of blood vessels.
Anti-inflammatory Actions
Increases anti-inflammatory proteins (superoxide dismutase, decorin), blocks the damaging release of oxidizing iron from ferritin, suppresses inflammatory cytokines (transforming growth factor beta-1, tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin 1), blocks cellular damage by oxygen free radicals and reactive carbonyl species, reduces protein glycation, improves fibroblast recovery after X-ray treatments, blocks ultraviolet damage to skin keratinocytes, increases and reduces thromboxane formation, protects hepatic tissue from tetrachloromethane poisoning, inhibits protein glycation.
Whole Body Effects
Improves aged skin (tightens skin and rebuilds skin barrier, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fine lines, wrinkles, photodamage, and hyperpigmentation), stimulates wound healing in numerous animal models and in humans, improves human hair growth and hair transplant success, protects and repairs gastric and intestinal lining, accelerates bone repair, increases infection resistance. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:09 am |
Foxe,
I really like the CP's and not just for Anti aging, I admit I don't really use them for that. For cuts, scrapes, rashes, ...brilliant. Anything inflamed...CP it. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:59 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
Foxe,
I really like the CP's and not just for Anti aging, I admit I don't really use them for that. For cuts, scrapes, rashes, ...brilliant. Anything inflamed...CP it. |
Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? 
Speaking of skin, want to talk about inflammasomes and IL-1? We can learn a lot about cytokines and inflammation by looking at autoimmune skin disorders. As we look more closely, we can begin to work out very precise cytokine arrays and predict which will help and which will harm.
http://www.smw.ch/content/smw-2012-13590/ |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:08 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? |
GHK-Cu is a real thing - it's found naturally in our bodies(as are the cytokines you harvest from bone marrow and then farm). And, they don't induce anti-inflammatory cytokines specifically - they 'suppress' inflammatory ones. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:45 am |
| foxe wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? |
GHK-Cu is a real thing - it's found naturally in our bodies(as are the cytokines you harvest from bone marrow and then farm). And, they don't induce anti-inflammatory cytokines specifically - they 'suppress' inflammatory ones. |
Agree, its real, and quite natural. Clever design! And very cool. The picture gets very complex at the molecular level. GHK-Cu suppresses some inflammatory cytokines, but also increases some (basic FGF, TGF-beta-1, VEGF). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655171 Then, because cytokines work in patterns, changing one may change others. Cross talk. And then there is timing, etc. So, GHK-Cu is net anti-inflammatory, but by a lot of different mechanisms, some interdependent, some stimulatory, some inhibitory.. Functionally you can achieve a net anti-inflammatory pattern by a number of routes, GHK-Cu being one. Direct application of anti-inflammatory cytokines is another. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:03 pm |
Dr. P thinks we all ought to be taking GHK-Cu to keep our brains working correctly as we age.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/oximed/2012/324832/ |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:43 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
GHK-Cu suppresses some inflammatory cytokines, but also increases some (basic FGF, TGF-beta-1, VEGF). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655171 Then, because cytokines work in patterns, changing one may change others. Cross talk. And then there is timing, etc. So, GHK-Cu is net anti-inflammatory, but by a lot of different mechanisms, some interdependent, some stimulatory, some inhibitory. |
Looks like the increases in basic FGF and VEGF are beneficial here:
An early increase in basic fibroblast growth factor and vascular endothelial growth factor production by GHK-Cu-treated irradiated fibroblasts may improve wound healing.
But, CPs do not increase TGF-beta 1, they suppress them. The link mentions evaluating their effects, but they were not mentioned in the results or conclusions. Dr P is always saying CPs suppress them.
| Quote: |
| Functionally you can achieve a net anti-inflammatory pattern by a number of routes, GHK-Cu being one. Direct application of anti-inflammatory cytokines is another. |
Now, Dr J - are you making fun of Dr P here??  I think it's a good thing that he is still researching his baby (the GHK-Cu) and finding new things about it. He's also said it can suppress cancer.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5220011852/m/9481077306
Looks like CPs have lots of promising research going on about them. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:03 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
GHK-Cu suppresses some inflammatory cytokines, but also increases some (basic FGF, TGF-beta-1, VEGF). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655171 Then, because cytokines work in patterns, changing one may change others. Cross talk. And then there is timing, etc. So, GHK-Cu is net anti-inflammatory, but by a lot of different mechanisms, some interdependent, some stimulatory, some inhibitory. |
Looks like the increases in basic FGF and VEGF are beneficial here:
An early increase in basic fibroblast growth factor and vascular endothelial growth factor production by GHK-Cu-treated irradiated fibroblasts may improve wound healing.
But, CPs do not increase TGF-beta 1, they suppress them. The link mentions evaluating their effects, but they were not mentioned in the results or conclusions. Dr P is always saying CPs suppress them. |
Well, apparently there is conflicting data. It's not unusual. Lot's of variety in experimental protocols.
It's complicated because you can have some inflammatory cytokines but if the bulk are anti-inflammatory it works out OK. The problem with TGF-beta 1 is that it leads to scarring if it persists. But to start the process, may be just fine. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:09 pm |
No I like Dr.P. I used to live on Mercer Island, and could practically see his office from my house. Smallish body of water separates MI & Factoria on Lake WA.
I do think it amusing that CP's have become a cure all though. I can picture DrP snorting CP's through a straw to get direct brain dosing via the olfactory apparatus. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:48 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? |
Are you saying that AnteAGE will give the same results as dermarolling and laser treatments? |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:57 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? |
Are you saying that AnteAGE will give the same results as dermarolling and laser treatments? |
No. Just having fun with the Dr P and the Cu-Pep crowd. I have seen some miserable laser failures, by the way. I actually think that the combination of physical "collagen induction" plus AnteAGE is a very logical notion. Now hearing anecdotal evidence about its use in medical settings that seem to confirm (very preliminary, but tantalizing). Its not about avoiding the damage, but about healing in a "youthful" fashion. Not just faster , but higher quality. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:10 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
I do think it amusing that CP's have become a cure all though. I can picture DrP snorting CP's through a straw to get direct brain dosing via the olfactory apparatus. |
HaHaHa! I can picture that too! I think he's had forum users suggest a GHK supplement too!
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_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:44 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| No I like Dr.P. I used to live on Mercer Island, and could practically see his office from my house. Smallish body of water separates MI & Factoria on Lake WA. |
I was even closer...I used to live in New Castle and his office overlooks one of my fav stores...Nordstrom Rack! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:24 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| No I like Dr.P. I used to live on Mercer Island, and could practically see his office from my house. Smallish body of water separates MI & Factoria on Lake WA. |
I was even closer...I used to live in New Castle and his office overlooks one of my fav stores...Nordstrom Rack! |
I wonder if The Keg is still there. Loved their salad bar. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:29 pm |
| Speaking of fantastic ingredients, I am in Las Vegas to attend IECSC Beauty Show (along with 10,000 estheticians, esthetic physicians, spa folks), Any new stuff you want me to investigate? It's not the ingredients show (we are going to one of those next month!), but lots of devices & stuff here. I am planning some interviews. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:34 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Speaking of fantastic ingredients, I am in Las Vegas to attend IECSC Beauty Show (along with 10,000 estheticians, esthetic physicians, spa folks), Any new stuff you want me to investigate? It's not the ingredients show (we are going to one of those next month!), but lots of devices & stuff here. I am planning some interviews. |
A report an any gadgets and devices that you think have actual merit would be useful. Perhaps you could start a new thread on innovations that you see which show promise. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:35 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Speaking of fantastic ingredients, I am in Las Vegas to attend IECSC Beauty Show (along with 10,000 estheticians, esthetic physicians, spa folks), Any new stuff you want me to investigate? It's not the ingredients show (we are going to one of those next month!), but lots of devices & stuff here. I am planning some interviews. |
A report an any gadgets and devices that you think have actual merit would be useful. Perhaps you could start a new thread on innovations that you see which show promise. |
I agree with Keliu. Any gadgets that show some real promise would be great. Thanks Dr. J |
_________________
Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:59 am |
Go checkout the Dermapen booth.
BFG |
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Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:25 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Go checkout the Dermapen booth.
BFG |
DermaPen not here. There are rollers and punches, nothing very new in that real it seems. Lots of the usual characters. Equipment is the big attraction. Dr. George and I have been walking the floor giving out Truth Matters buttons, but only to those with good science. Surprising how many people here already know about BFT. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:24 am |
| Just saw an interesting new dermastamp. I'll scan some pics later. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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