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DragoN
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Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:59 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
Let me state again, I am a big fan of Yak Meat Tenderizer.

I'll quote you..Very Happy

Minimum...it smells goodish. Wink
Do you suppose it's the gingerols?

Cute studies on the Soy...most are ingestion...which of course I am quite thrilled with as I tend to consume rather copious amounts of soy. The bean cake study...do you suppose it would have the same effect as a mask? Laughing

You need more enticing supporting evidence:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/5/1314.full.pdf
http://www.ornatural.com/eng/pdf/detox-slim/Genistein%20-%20SOFW%20Journal.pdf
... it's rather specific as opposed to the slop effect of a soft tofu mask.

Oooh...AGE's ghastly, what of that? Indirect evidence to be sure...but better than most..Hmmm..Kinetin doesn't do a bad job there...pretty good actually.
www.cosderm.com/PDF/019120736.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16662860
That's just curio^^...the entire study...most interesting..

KlNETIN DELAYS THE ONSET OF AGEING CHARACTERISTICS IN HUMAN FIBROBlASTS

Laboratory of Cellular Ageing, Department of Chemistry,
Aarhus Univenity, DK-8000 Aarhus· C, Denmark

While..you worry about the Wrinkled Rats...I am curious about the Senile ones. We've got photodamage, Collagen upreg and longevity covered by N6 Fur so far...let's pick the brains?

Kinetin protects against lipid peroxidation and improves antioxidant status in cultured astrocytes and mouse brain exposed to D-galactose

College of Animal Science and Technology, Henan University of Science and Technology, Luoyang, Henan 471003,
China.
2College of Animal Science, Henan institute of science and technology, Xinxiang Henan 453003, China.
Accepted 7 July, 2011
^^^Fascinating study if you're into that sort of thig

Lotusesther, I shot a similar Q at the doc as yourself...and he danced side ways...do they crowd at the edge of the dish yet when whistled at? Come by any name? Specifically..or is it...Cell Signaling goulash?

Ah..but there is another wonder child with a high ORAC, tricky beast as one requires a highly standardized extract and all that sort of thing...oooh..and L carnosine...back to anti glycation and all that..and round and round we go....Doc,,,your units...they ought to be able to stimulate hair growth too by the looks of things...that may be a tricky bugger for the ladies...
Lotusesther
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Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:31 am      Reply with quote
Very Happy Yak meat tenderizer may be next on my experiment list.

For the rest I just will lay off. Whenever I ask something or remark or anything it seems it causes a stir. Thank you for all the info on soy - I had found similar things myself. Lot of badly researched stuff going round, no way of knowing what people put in their cream is the bio-available stuff or not, which may explain the underwhelming response to my question about people using the stuff.

I'm looking forward to reading a real study about cytokines, skin effects and systemic effects in a substantial test group. Until then I wouldn't touch the stuff, since I have arthritis and would rather walk with wrinkles than sit in a wheelchair with perfect skin. But hey, that's me. I just heard on the radio today that coca cola is changing its formula because the colorant ingredient is a carcinogenic. That's food safety for you and who is really watching the stuff vain old ladies put on their face?
DragoN
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Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:10 pm      Reply with quote
Lotusesther wrote:
Very Happy Yak meat tenderizer may be next on my experiment list.


Better bet and chance of efficacy than "Teprenone" "Renovage"...GGA...in short.
And smells nice too...even better with Franky.

I'd give Pearl Powder a miss too. Wink
Lotusesther wrote:
Whenever I ask something or remark or anything it seems it causes a stir.

Yep...wonder what that's about?
Don't give a ratz butt either way...I make my own.

Jungle JuJu
Don't try this with tsps though...Laughing
Barefootgirl
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:24 am      Reply with quote
I just had a blonde, V-8, hit my forehead moment.

I've often said that I won't roll into my skin anything that I would not also swallow down my throat. Given some of these latest posts, I am going to formulate a topical serum to roll into the skin that mimics the same healthy, anti-aging ingredients we consume for health and anti-aging.

It occurs to me, holistically, this makes the most sense based on all heard and read.

My smoothies and my topical serum will be similar Smile

All cells of the body must respond the same, in some fashion.

I am betting there are a few out there who already know this, but it gets tough trying to market or patent something directly from nature and not new from a lab.

Will report back, may take me awhile.

BFG
Lotusesther
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:40 am      Reply with quote
The main stumbling block there may be whether or not the nice stuff in your smoothies is in a form that can be used by the skin, or needs an enzymatic change first. Digestion is about more than just absorption after all.
But for a lot, or most stuff I think it's the same. Resveratrol, CoQ10, vitamins, fatty acids - same in skin care as in health foods.
Barefootgirl
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:29 am      Reply with quote
Lotusesther wrote:
The main stumbling block there may be whether or not the nice stuff in your smoothies is in a form that can be used by the skin, or needs an enzymatic change first


This is the legwork that needs to be done..

BFG
Tija
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
I like Astaxanthin. Aside from taking it orally, I break open a capsule and mix into my favourite cream. It seems to refine my skin and make my pores smaller. It also gives a nice warm glow to my face. It's a highly pigmented natural orange colour .
Kassy_A
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:42 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I just had a blonde, V-8, hit my forehead moment.

I've often said that I won't roll into my skin anything that I would not also swallow down my throat. Given some of these latest posts, I am going to formulate a topical serum to roll into the skin that mimics the same healthy, anti-aging ingredients we consume for health and anti-aging.

It occurs to me, holistically, this makes the most sense based on all heard and read.

My smoothies and my topical serum will be similar Smile

All cells of the body must respond the same, in some fashion.

I am betting there are a few out there who already know this, but it gets tough trying to market or patent something directly from nature and not new from a lab.

Will report back, may take me awhile.

BFG


You're my kind of girl BFG! Very Happy

Just chiming in to suggest you check out the use of pure emu oil (no other additives) to use as a base for your rolling experiment.

Emu is super high in oleic acid, which makes it one of the very best natural products, with the ability to carry other actives through multiple skin layers..

If you add to that, a few drops of virgin palm oil, which is loaded to the gills with the best of A & E, you will be *rollin* on the river to feeding your skin the best nature has to offer our skin. Add to that a little THDA (oil soluble C) and you've covered all bases..

For the very best "virgin palm" (and coconut also) oils, I still recommend 'tropical traditions'. (Happy 5 year customer..Never found anything else comparable!) ***Go for the full fledged pure virgin for whatever oils you decide on.. If it says "fragrance" or "color" free, all of the goodies will be gone!*** (They make nice massage oils though..Laughing

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm

Can't wait to hear your experiences. Good luck with your DIY venture... Very Happy

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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥
Keliu
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:29 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I just had a blonde, V-8, hit my forehead moment.

I've often said that I won't roll into my skin anything that I would not also swallow down my throat. Given some of these latest posts, I am going to formulate a topical serum to roll into the skin that mimics the same healthy, anti-aging ingredients we consume for health and anti-aging.


Regarding the benefits of Lycopene - Tina Richards states that she credits the health of her skin due to eating a slice of toast with tomato paste spread on it every day.

Quote:
Eating a tablespoon a day of concentrated tomato paste (eg on toast or a cracker), although not by any means replacing sunblock, boosts your skin’s natural protection against UV rays because tomato paste contains concentrated amounts of the antioxidant lycopene which when regularly consumed accumulates in the skin helping to protect it from UV induced free radicals!
http://www.tinarichards.com/education/workshops/


Maybe we should be rolling that into our skin!!

Regardless of what serums/actives I'm using on my skin - I ALWAYS top everything off with Emu Oil (which can be consumed orally BTW).

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rileygirl
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:56 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:


Regarding the benefits of Lycopene - Tina Richards states that she credits the health of her skin due to eating a slice of toast with tomato paste spread on it every day.



Dr. Fernandes also likes tomato paste. He says it is good for sun protection.
Barefootgirl
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:57 am      Reply with quote
These new potions are mentioned in the new Allure as having some promise:

Rhamnose (Vichy)

Retinol and E-Pulse (Roc)

NeuroMed Complex (Skinceuticals)

Glycans (Yves Saint Laurent)

BFG
DrJ
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:54 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
These new potions are mentioned in the new Allure as having some promise:

Rhamnose (Vichy)

Retinol and E-Pulse (Roc)

NeuroMed Complex (Skinceuticals)

Glycans (Yves Saint Laurent)

BFG


Allure - now there's a reliable source Rolling Eyes

This rhamnose stuff all comes out of France, so there could be a conspiracy. They all seem to get the same results no matter what. On the other hand, it is cheap to make.

And, if it is activating MMP's, why not bypass these sugary steps and do it with cytokines?


Arch Gerontol Geriatr. 2010 May-Jun;50(3):327-31. Epub 2009 Jun 26.

Age- and passage-dependent upregulation of fibroblast elastase-type endopeptidase activity. Role of advanced glycation endproducts, inhibition by fucose- and rhamnose-rich oligosaccharides.

Robert L, Molinari J, Ravelojaona V, Andrès E, Robert AM.
Source

Laboratoire de recherche ophtalmologique, Hôpital Hôtel Dieu, Université Paris V-1, place du Parvis Notre Dame, F-75181 Paris cedex 04, France. lrobert5@wanadoo.fr
Abstract

It could be shown using the in vitro cell culture aging model, that elastase-type endopeptidase activity is progressively upregulated with successive passages (in vitro aging). Similar results were obtained previously by determining elastase-type activity as a function of age in aorta extracts (human) and skin extracts (mouse). Among the possible mechanisms involved we tested the role of advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs) on this process. AGE-production was shown to increase with age, exemplified by the exponential age-dependent crosslinking of collagen, demonstrated by Fritz Verzár, already in 1963. Several AGEs significantly upregulated elastase-type activity when added to the culture medium of fibroblasts. This effect appears to be mediated by some AGE-receptors as shown previously, and could be inhibited by a 5 kDa rhamnose-rich oligosaccharide (RROP-3) as well as by a fucose-rich oligosaccharide (FROP-3). When present in the culture media, RROP-3 and FROP-3 efficiently inhibited the passage-dependent upregulation of elastase-type activity expressed by human skin fibroblasts. The use of specific inhibitors and zymography suggested that matrix metalloproteinases (MMP)-9 activation and expression are mainly involved. A detailed discussion is proposed for the interpretation of age-dependent modifications of tissues as vascular wall and skin in the light of these and related experiments, highlighting the role of several specific receptors in the mediation of the observed reactions.
Barefootgirl
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:19 am      Reply with quote
Touche Laughing

I am not suggesting that Allure is a reliable source, I am suggesting that Allure is a first alert source for lay people aka consumers.

Please let us know if you have a better first source?

Thanks, BFG
DrJ
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:43 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Touche Laughing

I am not suggesting that Allure is a reliable source, I am suggesting that Allure is a first alert source for lay people aka consumers.

Please let us know if you have a better first source?

Thanks, BFG


You are my first source BFG!
Barefootgirl
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:37 am      Reply with quote
good one! Laughing

Thanks for the Chapter 20 reference, it is completely available via Google, so I have spent the better part of my lunch hour today reading that, very interesting.

Other parts are available as well (unfortunately not all)...but I was able to stumble across a few sentences regarding chronic inflammation vs. acute inflammation.

We here have often become concerned regarding the point at which acute (good) inflammation could trigger into chronic (bad) inflammation.

What a pity to end up spending $ and time only to cause more skin aging.

BFG
jom
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:46 am      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:

Allure - now there's a reliable source Rolling Eyes



Actually, Allure has gotten much better at their skin care reporting. If they kept the product recommendations out of it it would be better. Sometimes their recommendations aren't very good. But in terms of the information they provide it's pretty good, basic information. At least they always acknowledge that Retin A or retinoids are key. And, they do introduce new ingredients into the mix.
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:45 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:

Allure - now there's a reliable source Rolling Eyes



Actually, Allure has gotten much better at their skin care reporting. If they kept the product recommendations out of it it would be better. Sometimes their recommendations aren't very good. But in terms of the information they provide it's pretty good, basic information. At least they always acknowledge that Retin A or retinoids are key. And, they do introduce new ingredients into the mix.


I suppose it beats the "Daily AHA!" (Dr. Oz's daily contribution to my spam folder. How'd I get on that list?).
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:29 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:

Allure - now there's a reliable source Rolling Eyes



Actually, Allure has gotten much better at their skin care reporting. If they kept the product recommendations out of it it would be better. Sometimes their recommendations aren't very good. But in terms of the information they provide it's pretty good, basic information. At least they always acknowledge that Retin A or retinoids are key. And, they do introduce new ingredients into the mix.


I suppose it beats the "Daily AHA!" (Dr. Oz's daily contribution to my spam folder. How'd I get on that list?).


hmm Some company sold your email to a gazillion other sires like the rest of us? That is what you get for buying your lash enhancers from one of those "online" pharmacies! Oh the price of vanity! Laughing

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DrJ
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:16 am      Reply with quote
Back to our discussion of actives. I wonder if our forum frequent flyers would like to rank order their impressions of most effective actives for them or in general. Maybe a top five list?

How about:
retinoids (Vit A)
carnosine
Vit C
Vit E
niacinamide

Notice how many on my list are nutritionals?
DarkMoon
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:32 am      Reply with quote
1) A
2) C
3) E

4-5 not sure niacinamide, carnosine...which to rate as more effective?

Answer: Yes!

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DarkMoon
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:53 am      Reply with quote
It has been my understanding that Retinol should not be used in the day (some even say inside lighting degrades it) and it causes skin to be more sensitive to the sun? Some essential oils are also not recommended for daytime use due to causing the skin to be photosensitive as well, however those aren't divulged as of this posting.

Correct me where I am misinformed please.

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brierrose
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:53 am      Reply with quote
Most effective actives for me:

Tretinoin
Vit C,E
Copper Peptides
Niacinamide
AHA/BHA
jom
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:43 am      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Back to our discussion of actives. I wonder if our forum frequent flyers would like to rank order their impressions of most effective actives for them or in general. Maybe a top five list?

How about:
retinoids (Vit A)
carnosine
Vit C
Vit E
niacinamide

Notice how many on my list are nutritionals?


1-A
2-C
3-E
4-niacinamide (love this!)
5-carnosine (don't know much about this)
rileygirl
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:47 am      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Back to our discussion of actives. I wonder if our forum frequent flyers would like to rank order their impressions of most effective actives for them or in general. Maybe a top five list?

How about:
retinoids (Vit A)
carnosine
Vit C
Vit E
niacinamide

Notice how many on my list are nutritionals?


1-A
2-C
3-E
4-niacinamide (love this!)
5-carnosine (don't know much about this)


Agree with Jom, but I almost would make 4 and 5 equal.
DarkMoon
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Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:50 am      Reply with quote
I know carnosine is in Skinactives CHAS serum and I have heard good things about ti as an active, but don't recall exactly what at the moment! Confused Would need to research it again.....

CHAS:

Water, sea kelp bioferment, sodium PCA, magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, niacinamide, L-carnosine, L-carnitine, tetrahydrocurcuminoids, ferulic acid, hyaluronic acid, green tea epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), hesperidin methyl chalcone, aloe polysaccharides, lycopene, glutathione, glutaredoxin, superoxide dismutase, propylene glycol (and) diazolidinyl urea (and) methylparaben (and) propylparaben

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