Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in



Let's Make a List / Name That Fantastic Active

EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum
Reply to topic
Author Message
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:34 am      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
Posted by zina Tue Nov 09, 2010

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6394924

zina wrote:
Beauty Ingredients article Harper's Bazaar

Volufiline
A natural cholesterol extracted from an Asian root vegetable, this hormone-free plumper helps to increase fat storage where it is applied.
Up your cup size with Rodial Boob Job, £125


Syn-Ake

A synthetic peptide that mimics the venom of a Southeast Asian temple viper, it works in a similar fashion to Botox by blocking the neurotransmitters that tell muscles to contract.
Try Peter Thomas Roth's Un-Wrinkle, £22.50.


These are two of my favorite quack ingredients: synake oil and boob wax. How did they get into this thread? Two most irrational excuses for actives I've seen in a long time.
DarkMoon
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 10206
Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:36 am      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
Posted by zina Tue Nov 09, 2010

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6394924

zina wrote:
Beauty Ingredients article Harper's Bazaar

Volufiline
A natural cholesterol extracted from an Asian root vegetable, this hormone-free plumper helps to increase fat storage where it is applied.
Up your cup size with Rodial Boob Job, £125


Syn-Ake

A synthetic peptide that mimics the venom of a Southeast Asian temple viper, it works in a similar fashion to Botox by blocking the neurotransmitters that tell muscles to contract.
Try Peter Thomas Roth's Un-Wrinkle, £22.50.


These are two of my favorite quack ingredients: synake oil and boob wax. How did they get into this thread?


I thought it was a wee tad amusing.....my how things change!

_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON....
DarkMoon
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 10206
Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:08 am      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
DrJ wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
Posted by zina Tue Nov 09, 2010

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6394924

zina wrote:
Beauty Ingredients article Harper's Bazaar

Volufiline
A natural cholesterol extracted from an Asian root vegetable, this hormone-free plumper helps to increase fat storage where it is applied.
Up your cup size with Rodial Boob Job, £125


Syn-Ake

A synthetic peptide that mimics the venom of a Southeast Asian temple viper, it works in a similar fashion to Botox by blocking the neurotransmitters that tell muscles to contract.
Try Peter Thomas Roth's Un-Wrinkle, £22.50.


These are two of my favorite quack ingredients: synake oil and boob wax. How did they get into this thread?


I thought it was a wee tad amusing.....my how things change!



Except this and a few others at the top of the list? You managed to pick out the poo.Laughing

Kinetin
Boasting antioxidant, hydrating and cell renewal properties this extract from the blue anemone flower works to keep skin plump and line-free.
Try Kinerase Cream SPF 15, £39.99. www.beautyexpert.co.uk

_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON....
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:53 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
DrJ wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
Posted by zina Tue Nov 09, 2010

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6394924

zina wrote:
Beauty Ingredients article Harper's Bazaar

Volufiline
A natural cholesterol extracted from an Asian root vegetable, this hormone-free plumper helps to increase fat storage where it is applied.
Up your cup size with Rodial Boob Job, £125


Syn-Ake

A synthetic peptide that mimics the venom of a Southeast Asian temple viper, it works in a similar fashion to Botox by blocking the neurotransmitters that tell muscles to contract.
Try Peter Thomas Roth's Un-Wrinkle, £22.50.


These are two of my favorite quack ingredients: synake oil and boob wax. How did they get into this thread?


I thought it was a wee tad amusing.....my how things change!



Except this and a few others at the top of the list? You managed to pick out the poo.Laughing

Kinetin
Boasting antioxidant, hydrating and cell renewal properties this extract from the blue anemone flower works to keep skin plump and line-free.
Try Kinerase Cream SPF 15, £39.99. www.beautyexpert.co.uk


I've got a keen nose for poo. Top of my class in poo detection. Very Happy
DarkMoon
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 10206
Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:02 pm      Reply with quote
Don't tempt me.......woof woof! Laughing

_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON....
erg
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 728
Wed May 02, 2012 7:51 am      Reply with quote
Dr J and others: What are your thoughts on this article?

#########
Hyaluronic acid

By Doctor Loren Pickart

Hyaluronic acid (scientifically named 'hyaluronan') is a sugar-like molecule that can bind huge amounts of water (1000-fold of its own weight).

When applied to the surface of human skin, it may feel smooth and sensuous but will slowly wet the skin's outer protective proteins and damage the skin barrier. This can temporarily improve the look of skin but does not help its long term health. The outer layer of skin (what we actually see) is composed of keratinocytes. The signal that causes the skin to send new keratinocytes to the skin's surface is a dryness in the outer layers of the skin. Hydrating (wetting) the outer skin proteins slows or even stops the normal flow of keratinocytes to the skin surface. If the skin is kept wet, such as with the use of a hyaluronan, renewal is slowed and skin just ends up looking older.

Skin damaging cosmetic moisturizers are designed to push water into the skin and wet the outer skin proteins. Various detergents (but they may not be labeled detergents) and water-holding molecules such as hyaluronic acid often loosen the outer skin proteins so water can interact with them. But this weakens the skin barrier and lets in viruses, bacteria, and allergens.

In about 1997, there were studies from Denmark that found that oil/water skin moisturizers broke down the skin barrier. The concern was that this could increase infection in hospital patients.

This means skin is more slowly replaced and damage remains longer. The best example is the 'cold creams' that women applied every night in the 1930s and 1940s. You may have seen these in old movies. Their skin was kept moist but these women ended up with horrible wrinkles.

Various polymers of hyaluronan are used as skin injectable skin fillers. Injectable form of hyaluronic acid are sold as 'not-from-animal' sources but they are derived from pathogenic bacteria. The FDA warns that the material contains small amounts of bacterial protein and this can produce allergic responses in time.

Hyaluronic acid in tissues speeds the spread of cancer cells. Anti-cancer therapies are being developed to lower hyaluronic acid in tissue to stop cancer growth.

Go the http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and type in 'hyaluronan cancer' and you will get about 1,100 recent references.

So our recommendation is to use products free from hyaluronic acid and instead use biological oils as moisturizer agents. These compounds are time tested and work as the most natural way to hydrate skin without potential harmful effects.

_________________
42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils
Lotusesther
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 699
Wed May 02, 2012 9:49 am      Reply with quote
1. Most often we also use a form of exfoliation, which stimulates skin cell turnover, and I guess that would negate the skin renewal slowing effect, if there is any.

2. Dry skin gets damaged more easily. Fine lines that can easily develop into deep wrinkles. Cold cream does not contain any hyaluronic acid as far as I know. My guess would be that an excess of ha from the outside would most probably stifle the production of ha in the skin (signals that there's enough of it) so that could in time make your skin dry from the inside. But that would only happen if you would use very much of it I guess, and only be an issue if your skin doesn't have a problem with dryness to begin with.

3. Lots of actives promise to enhance your own skin's production of ha. That is also one of the effects of hormone replacement therapy on the skin. Apparently a good amount of ha is considered beneficial and anti-aging.

So I am very curious what dr J has to say on all this. Don't the cytokines in his products stimulate the production of ha in the skin?
jom
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 1759
Wed May 02, 2012 4:53 pm      Reply with quote
Dr. J I think we discussed Gluconolactone as an ingredient briefly on another thread but I was wondering what you think of it as an active ingredient.

Also, in particular, what do you think of this product that contains gluconolactone (I know you won't like the silicones but besides that what do you think?):

NeoStrata Bio-Hydrating Cream

Water (Aqua), Gluconolactone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Propylene Glycol, Isododecane, PEG-40 Stearate, Sorbitan Monostearate, Isocetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearic Acid, Glyceryl Diisostearate, Cyclomethicone (Cyclopentasiloxane), TEA, Ethoxydiglycol, Dimethicone (Methylpolysiloxane), Butylene Glycol, Tocopheryl (Vitamin E) Acetate, Arginine, Disodium EDTA, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Xanthan Gum, Methylparaben, Chlorphenesin, Propylparaben.

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Bio-Hydrating+Cream+-+PHA+15_33227.htm
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Wed May 02, 2012 5:41 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
Dr. J I think we discussed Gluconolactone as an ingredient briefly on another thread but I was wondering what you think of it as an active ingredient.

Also, in particular, what do you think of this product that contains gluconolactone (I know you won't like the silicones but besides that what do you think?):

NeoStrata Bio-Hydrating Cream

Water (Aqua), Gluconolactone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Propylene Glycol, Isododecane, PEG-40 Stearate, Sorbitan Monostearate, Isocetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearic Acid, Glyceryl Diisostearate, Cyclomethicone (Cyclopentasiloxane), TEA, Ethoxydiglycol, Dimethicone (Methylpolysiloxane), Butylene Glycol, Tocopheryl (Vitamin E) Acetate, Arginine, Disodium EDTA, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Xanthan Gum, Methylparaben, Chlorphenesin, Propylparaben.

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Bio-Hydrating+Cream+-+PHA+15_33227.htm


Neostrata is big on AHA's and PHA's. Gluconolactone (one of the latter) has antioxidant qualities, and is less irritating than glycolic acid (probably because it doesn't penetrate nearly as well). Most of the "anti-aging" testing seems focused on the combination (e.g. glycolic + gluconolactone). When compared side-by-side, AHAS's score slightly better.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15002657)

So, my opinion is that it is a reasonable ingredient with rational science behind it, but doesn't really do anything the other HA's do, although with less irritation.

I remain ambivalent about exfoliants in general. Peels have a place. Trying to do it slowly via exfoliative actives in creamy moisturizers seems an odd compromise. I also don't like things with such narrow therapeutic ranges that vary widely from person to person.

Retinoids make much more sense to me. They reach deeper, stimulate turnover from the inside out, act as cell signalling agents. Easier to control effects. Wider therapeutic range.
jom
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 1759
Wed May 02, 2012 5:54 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
jom wrote:
Dr. J I think we discussed Gluconolactone as an ingredient briefly on another thread but I was wondering what you think of it as an active ingredient.

Also, in particular, what do you think of this product that contains gluconolactone (I know you won't like the silicones but besides that what do you think?):

NeoStrata Bio-Hydrating Cream

Water (Aqua), Gluconolactone, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Propylene Glycol, Isododecane, PEG-40 Stearate, Sorbitan Monostearate, Isocetyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearic Acid, Glyceryl Diisostearate, Cyclomethicone (Cyclopentasiloxane), TEA, Ethoxydiglycol, Dimethicone (Methylpolysiloxane), Butylene Glycol, Tocopheryl (Vitamin E) Acetate, Arginine, Disodium EDTA, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Xanthan Gum, Methylparaben, Chlorphenesin, Propylparaben.

http://www.dermstore.com/product_Bio-Hydrating+Cream+-+PHA+15_33227.htm


Neostrata is big on AHA's and PHA's. Gluconolactone (one of the latter) has antioxidant qualities, and is less irritating than glycolic acid (probably because it doesn't penetrate nearly as well). Most of the "anti-aging" testing seems focused on the combination (e.g. glycolic + gluconolactone). When compared side-by-side, AHAS's score slightly better.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15002657)

So, my opinion is that it is a reasonable ingredient with rational science behind it, but doesn't really do anything the other HA's do, although with less irritation.

I remain ambivalent about exfoliants in general. Peels have a place. Trying to do it slowly via exfoliative actives in creamy moisturizers seems an odd compromise. I also don't like things with such narrow therapeutic ranges that vary widely from person to person.

Retinoids make much more sense to me. They reach deeper, stimulate turnover from the inside out, act as cell signalling agents. Easier to control effects. Wider therapeutic range.


Thanks Dr. J!
Barefootgirl
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2060
Thu May 03, 2012 6:14 am      Reply with quote
Among these three, are they considered equally effective?

Matrixyl™ 3000

Relistase

Syn®-Tacks

any considered *more effective* than these?

Thanks, BFG

PS - DrJ - I think you're being paged on the Needling/IPL thread. Smile
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Thu May 03, 2012 9:33 am      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Among these three, are they considered equally effective?

Matrixyl™ 3000

Relistase

Syn®-Tacks

any considered *more effective* than these?

Thanks, BFG

PS - DrJ - I think you're being paged on the Needling/IPL thread. Smile



Matrixyl™ 3000 - good evidence
Syn®-Tacks - good evidence

Relistase -- no evidence except that from the Spanish company Lipotec, who have a peptide for everything including the "it works just like Botox" nonsense. Don't get caught in their "spin trap".
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Thu May 03, 2012 10:26 am      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:
Among these three, are they considered equally effective?

Matrixyl™ 3000

Relistase

Syn®-Tacks

any considered *more effective* than these?

Thanks, BFG

PS - DrJ - I think you're being paged on the Needling/IPL thread. Smile



Matrixyl™ 3000 - good evidence
Syn®-Tacks - good evidence

Relistase -- no evidence except that from the Spanish company Lipotec, who have a peptide for everything including the "it works just like Botox" nonsense. Don't get caught in their "spin trap".


Oops I made a boo boo. Cut & paste error. Here is the real deal.

Matrixyl™ 3000 - good evidence, including independent verification

Syn®-Tacks - a "me too" peptide duo from the people at DSM nutritional who also bring you Syn Ake (snake oil) the "it works just like Botox" nonsense. Don't get caught in their "spin trap"

Relistase -- no evidence except that from the Spanish company Lipotec, who have a peptide for everything and external evidence for nothing.

Of course cytokines are peptides too chemically speaking, so are any considered *more effective* than these? - I might refer you to all the cytokine threads (including this one vide supra, lifeline, anteage, etc)

Thanks BFG
Barefootgirl
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2060
Thu May 03, 2012 10:55 am      Reply with quote
Looks like the folks at Lipotec are busy:

Syn-Coll
Leuphasyl
Preventhelia
Serilesine
Syn-Hycan

One wonders if any of these are redundant in addition to possibly (?) effective.

A few others:

Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen

BFG
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Thu May 03, 2012 3:23 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Looks like the folks at Lipotec are busy:

Syn-Coll
Leuphasyl
Preventhelia
Serilesine
Syn-Hycan

One wonders if any of these are redundant in addition to possibly (?) effective.

A few others:

Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen

BFG


Yes. This company causes me to utter SYN-ful words and gives me a case of dys-PEP-sia.
Barefootgirl
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 2060
Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 pm      Reply with quote
That second group of actives, as far as I know, are not from Lipotec.

Do you know if they hold any water any all?

BFG
Tiny
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 1539
Thu May 03, 2012 4:50 pm      Reply with quote
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we all drink a few bottles while we read this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.

eta:

I ment to ask, can resveratol actually abosorb into the skin Confused , because if it can

re-edited so it did not appear I'd already been drinking the wine
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Thu May 03, 2012 4:51 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
That second group of actives, as far as I know, are not from Lipotec.

Do you know if they hold any water any all?

BFG


water may be all they hold. Laughing
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Thu May 03, 2012 4:53 pm      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we call drink a few bottles while I read all this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.



Death also stops cell aging, but seems like the trade off is a bit severe. I'll go with the wine. Could somebody please make beer do this too
Tiny
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 1539
Thu May 03, 2012 4:54 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Tiny wrote:
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we call drink a few bottles while I read all this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.



Death also stops cell aging, but seems like the trade off is a bit severe.


sry Dr.J, you must of read this prior to my edit, the question was really about resveratol
DarkMoon
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 10206
Thu May 03, 2012 5:04 pm      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we all drink a few bottles while we read this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.

eta:

I ment to ask, can resveratol actually abosorb into the skin Confused , because if it can

re-edited so it did not appear I'd already been drinking the wine


I hate to burst that bubble but it is one glass daily for women and 2 glasses daily for men, Cabernet was shown to contain the highest amount of resveratol! Shock

Sorry on the beer doc, but dark beer especially makes for a lot of mommy's milk! Laughing

_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON....
Tiny
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 1539
Thu May 03, 2012 5:07 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon wrote:
Tiny wrote:
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we all drink a few bottles while we read this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.

eta:

I ment to ask, can resveratol actually abosorb into the skin Confused , because if it can

re-edited so it did not appear I'd already been drinking the wine


I hate to burst that bubble but it is one glass daily for women and 2 glasses daily for men, Cabernet was shown to contain the highest amount of resveratol! Shock

Sorry on the beer doc, but dark beer especially makes for a lot of mommy's milk! Laughing


No wonder a good friend of mine looks so good at 55, all she drinks is red wine.
DarkMoon
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Posts: 10206
Thu May 03, 2012 5:10 pm      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
DarkMoon wrote:
Tiny wrote:
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we all drink a few bottles while we read this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.

eta:

I ment to ask, can resveratol actually abosorb into the skin Confused , because if it can

re-edited so it did not appear I'd already been drinking the wine


I hate to burst that bubble but it is one glass daily for women and 2 glasses daily for men, Cabernet was shown to contain the highest amount of resveratol! Shock

Sorry on the beer doc, but dark beer especially makes for a lot of mommy's milk! Laughing


No wonder a good friend of mine looks so good at 55, all she drinks is red wine.


Yep, sad I love Rose but guess I need to grab some Cabernet and re-train my taste buds! Very Happy

_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON....
jom
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 1759
Thu May 03, 2012 5:29 pm      Reply with quote
Wine could be a contributing factor to breast cancer. A breast cancer doc I know says women should only drink 1-2 glasses of any wine per week.
DrJ
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 1004
Thu May 03, 2012 5:38 pm      Reply with quote
Tiny wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Tiny wrote:
News just said that a new study said drinking red wine can "stop" cell aging!!! So I vote we call drink a few bottles while I read all this.

While the red wine theory has been around this is a new study.



Death also stops cell aging, but seems like the trade off is a bit severe.


sry Dr.J, you must of read this prior to my edit, the question was really about resveratol


It gets in, in the right vehicle. Its an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory. Not much more in skin.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/31/5/31_5_955/_pdf
System
Automatic Message
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:55 pm
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic



DeVita Under Eye Repair Serum (15 ml / 0.5 oz) DeVita Perfecting Time (75 ml / 2.5 oz) Tanda ZAP - White