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Let's Make a List / Name That Fantastic Active

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DrJ
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Sat May 05, 2012 10:19 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...


Vitamin A - all forms MOST FORMS
Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer. This response is a little over my head and has me going - ??
Niacinamide WORK HORSE
Vitamin E SOOTHING & SMOOTHING
Ferulic acid TOO SENSITIVE, & DOESN'T PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS - OK AS OFFICE PROCEDURE
coffeeberry YES
green tea EVEN BETTER
zinc oxide OF COURSE
soy isoflavones OH YEAH
UBUIQUINONE


And worst:
DMAE
I would like to know more about the placement of this one here.
Syn-Ake (SYNAKE OIL)
ARGIRILENE
TEPRENONE
UNBALANCED GROWTH FACTORS (egf)
ALL PEPTIDES FROM LIPOTEC


To add to this discussion DrJ - where would you place copper peptides? You seem to have some favorable comments on GHK-Cu on your blog.


An oversight. Thanks foxe. I think we need to expand the list to a top 15 or 20.

Add to the 20 worst:

GATTEFOSSE with Gatuline® Radiance, a new powerful anti-ageing active ingredient which acts on skin microcirculation, improving skin nutrition and giving more luminosity and vitality.

WATCH OUT CAPILLARIES!

Ichimaru Pharcos Co., Ltd with Ougon Liquid B, which has a high inhibitory activity of CYP1B1 induction by tobacco extract. This can be used to block environmental stress factors including UV.

SMOKE IT OR PUT IN ON ?

IRB with Buddleja davidii stems G™, which contains 20% Butterfly Bush stem cells and minimum 0,2% of Verbascoside, a potent secondary metabolite able to protect the skin against UVA damage.

BECAUSE BUTTERFLIES HAVE NO WRINKLES!

LIPOTEC with Hyanify™, an exopolysaccharide, obtained through biotechnological processes from a marine bacterial strain that fights against dehydration and wrinkles.

BECAUSE BACTERIA HAVE NO WRINKLES!

Mibelle Biochemistry with DermCom, which stimulates the communication between epidermal and dermal cells to help boost collagen and elastin production that renews the skin’s resilience and firmness.

SOUNDS SUSPICIOUSLY LIKE A CYTOKINE - CALL THE PATENT ATTORNEY

Unipex Innovations – Lucas Meyer Cosmetics with Progeline™, a three amino-acids peptide biomimetic of a Elafin, an elastase inhibitor produced by keratinocyte which helps to fight the ageing process. Plus ADIPOFILL™, a new anti-ageing ingredient derived for vegetable glucose obtained by biotechnology.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO KEEP GNARLED UP HARD AS ROCK ELASTIN AROUND TO IMPROVE YOUR APPEARANCE AND THEN FEED IT SUGAR BECAUSE THSATS HOW YOU MAKE CROSS LINKS FOR EVEN BETTER GNARLING
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Sat May 05, 2012 10:27 am      Reply with quote
About ubiquinone/CoQ10:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2494.2012.00713.x/abstract

Interesting stuff.
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Sat May 05, 2012 10:32 am      Reply with quote
DrJ- Could you give your reasons for DMAE being on your worst list? If you've already discussed Dmae I can't seem to find where.

I know Dr. Pickard states it's okay at the right Ph but I would be interested to know your evaluation. Thanks.
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Sat May 05, 2012 11:21 am      Reply with quote
Quote:
BECAUSE BUTTERFLIES HAVE NO WRINKLES!

Laughing

D'Orientine, backed up with studies about the preferred dates in the Middle east. That's another winner. Prettier pdf went up after I shredded it. Laughing

Botaderm? Case study 1. Improved hydration? whoo. In glycerin, I believe it was.

Pephaprotect? Because watermelons have lots of water? So this will do same for skin. Spare me

ATPeptide, of zero to back it up. Vinciene has too many of these being pumped out. GRAS = Good to go.

Apple stem cells , PhytoStemCell Malus Domestica provides revolutionary money wasting performance for zero rejuvenation.

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Sat May 05, 2012 11:47 am      Reply with quote
To keep this thread, Let's Make a List / Name That Fantastic Active, on topic, we are moving the discussion on worst ingredients to its new sister thread found here:

Let's Make a List / Name Your Worst Ingredient
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6459732#6459732

Thank you.
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Sat May 05, 2012 12:31 pm      Reply with quote
brierrose wrote:
DrJ- Could you give your reasons for DMAE being on your worst list? If you've already discussed Dmae I can't seem to find where.

I know Dr. Pickard states it's okay at the right Ph but I would be interested to know your evaluation. Thanks.


It's actually jom's list. Let's ask her.
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Sat May 05, 2012 1:13 pm      Reply with quote
I'm sorry, written language is one-dimensional. I can't see your faces or hear the tone of your voices, so it's becoming a challenge for me to discern which, if any, of these comments are sarcasm.

Sugar...which I thought was a glycating agent, is supposedly bad for skin - not?

And none of these have independent studies showing effectiveness?::

Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen

So....that leaves Matrixyl as the only proven effective peptide? (I realize some on the list are not considered peptides).

Do I lump these with all the unproven gadgets as well? ...the only proven gadget was some kind of LED combined with green tea topical or is that my faulty memory?

BFG - only on her second margarita of the afternoon
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Sat May 05, 2012 1:24 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I'm sorry, written language is one-dimensional. I can't see your faces or hear the tone of your voices, so it's becoming a challenge for me to discern which, if any, of these comments are sarcasm.

Sugar...which I thought was a glycating agent, is supposedly bad for skin - not?

And none of these have independent studies showing effectiveness?::

Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen

So....that leaves Matrixyl as the only proven effective peptide? (I realize some on the list are not considered peptides).

Do I lump these with all the unproven gadgets as well? ...the only proven gadget was some kind of LED combined with green tea topical or is that my faulty memory?

BFG - only on her second margarita of the afternoon


Margarita's aside,

I think you came in on the tail end of a switch with some leftover worst on the fantastic thread!

Let's Make a List / Name Your Worst Ingredient
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6459732#6459732

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Sat May 05, 2012 1:59 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...

Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
I'm a little slow sometimes what do you mean by that. I take it you don't think it's the best form of Vit. C. What type(s) do you think are most effective?

The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer.

So, if Mr. Obama was a molecule, would he be levorotatory or dextrorotatory?



Oh, you're in a crusty mood today aren't you. Smile Must one have a chemistry degree to talk to you? So I looked up the enantiomer, dextrorotatory and levorotatory thing but I'm still confused. Chemistry just isn't my thing. What exactly are you trying to say? What did you say your preferred form of Vitamin C is?

My 50/50 guess on Obama is that he would be dextrorotatory.
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Sat May 05, 2012 2:18 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I'm sorry, written language is one-dimensional. I can't see your faces or hear the tone of your voices, so it's becoming a challenge for me to discern which, if any, of these comments are sarcasm.

Sugar...which I thought was a glycating agent, is supposedly bad for skin - not?

And none of these have independent studies showing effectiveness?::

Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen

So....that leaves Matrixyl as the only proven effective peptide? (I realize some on the list are not considered peptides).

Do I lump these with all the unproven gadgets as well? ...the only proven gadget was some kind of LED combined with green tea topical or is that my faulty memory?

BFG - only on her second margarita of the afternoon


CPs are peptides - which also have proven effectiveness.

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Barefootgirl
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Sat May 05, 2012 2:22 pm      Reply with quote
but....wasn't that my point? we don't know (do we?) which category these last ones belong to?
thumbs up or thumbs down?

Again, I am sorry - my 20+ year career is in law and psychology, I am not a scientist...would appreciate if some here could write for the layman or I could point you to my forum where we can discuss intricate intersections between psychology and the law, using obscure terms of art. Bad Grin

BFG - headed back to the blender & the race. lol
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Sat May 05, 2012 5:47 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...

Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
I'm a little slow sometimes what do you mean by that. I take it you don't think it's the best form of Vit. C. What type(s) do you think are most effective?

The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer.

So, if Mr. Obama was a molecule, would he be levorotatory or dextrorotatory?



Oh, you're in a crusty mood today aren't you. Smile Must one have a chemistry degree to talk to you? So I looked up the enantiomer, dextrorotatory and levorotatory thing but I'm still confused. Chemistry just isn't my thing. What exactly are you trying to say? What did you say your preferred form of Vitamin C is?

My 50/50 guess on Obama is that he would be dextrorotatory.


Is that because there is a -D next to his name on the ballot? Bad Grin
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Sat May 05, 2012 5:53 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
I'm sorry, written language is one-dimensional. I can't see your faces or hear the tone of your voices, so it's becoming a challenge for me to discern which, if any, of these comments are sarcasm.

Sugar...which I thought was a glycating agent, is supposedly bad for skin - not?

And none of these have independent studies showing effectiveness?::

Lipochroman-6
Decorinyl
D'Orientine S
Tego Pep 4-17
Pepha Tight
Trylagen

So....that leaves Matrixyl as the only proven effective peptide? (I realize some on the list are not considered peptides).

...and Dr P's cu++ peptides

Do I lump these with all the unproven gadgets as well? ...the only proven gadget was some kind of LED combined with green tea topical or is that my faulty memory?

Need a different list for gadgets

BFG - only on her second margarita of the afternoon


BFG needs to switch to merlot unless she has discovered the active anti-aging ingredient in lime juice
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Sat May 05, 2012 5:56 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...

Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
I'm a little slow sometimes what do you mean by that. I take it you don't think it's the best form of Vit. C. What type(s) do you think are most effective?

The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer.

So, if Mr. Obama was a molecule, would he be levorotatory or dextrorotatory?



Oh, you're in a crusty mood today aren't you. Smile Must one have a chemistry degree to talk to you? So I looked up the enantiomer, dextrorotatory and levorotatory thing but I'm still confused. Chemistry just isn't my thing. What exactly are you trying to say? What did you say your preferred form of Vitamin C is?

My 50/50 guess on Obama is that he would be dextrorotatory.


Is that because there is a -D next to his name on the ballot? Bad Grin


If you use the search and input d-ascorbic acid you will get many hits....example I posted in 2009:

DarkMoon wrote:
http://www.xpressnet.com/bhealthy/vitaminc.html
VITAMIN C

L-ASCORBIC ACID

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
4 - YEAR STUDY REPORT - EFFECTIVE REGARDING:
 
CANCER
CHELATION
HEART DISEASE
LETHARGY
CATARACTS
DEPRESSION
STRENGTH
BRUISING
HEALING
PALLOR
NOMINAL LIFE
EXTENSION
AND MORE ! ! !
IMPORTANT INFORMATION (ADDENDED)
Vitamin C is a product that is prevalent in many foods and produced by an abundance of chemical companies. The chemical side of Vitamin C is what is basically addressed here. Known by most scientists, but virtually unknown by the public and most doctors is the fact that Vitamin C has two totally and distinctly separate sides, as many products do. The two sides consist of "L"-Ascorbic Acid, which is the (-) side, and D-Ascorbic Acid, which is the (+) side. The L side of Vitamin C is the active side, and is the side which is beneficial to mankind. The D-side of Vitamin C is designated as useless and discarded by the body, as most research shows. People ingesting Vitamin C would only benefit from the "L" side of Vitamin C. Vitamin C is not a stable substance, as some people believe, and the L and D sides are subject to change with moisture an if water is added.

Example: In an orange, the Vitamin C is primarily the L side, and remains so in the surroundings of the orange. However, when the juice has been extracted from the orange for a period of days, the "L" side changes to D and the juice will eventually even off at 50% D and 50% L Vitamin C content. Frozen concentrate orange juice, when thawed and water added, will produce exactly the same action. The exact same action takes place again when Vitamin C is added by manufacturers to juices or drinks.

The assumption the public is under is that the Vitamin C added as a supplement during the manufacture of any liquid is all beneficial, which is a myth. The facts are that adding Vitamin C to drinks may constitute only 50-60% "L", with the remainder being the D side. Although it is believed that the body discards the D side of Vitamin C, further research should be undertaken to confirm this theory, as it may reveal that in some individuals, an abundance of the D side of Vitamin C could conceivably be detrimental to a person's health.

PURITY:
A number of companies produce Vitamin C with varying degrees of purity levels of L-Ascorbic Acid. However, in our research, our company was only able to come up with one producer that manufactures L-Ascorbic Acid at an average consistent 99.9% purity level. In turn, we found only a few companies using the 99.9% L-Ascorbic Acid when producing Vitamin C pills for sale to the public. Additionally, most all of the pill manufacturers add ingredients to the L-Ascorbic Acid with the most prevalent being rose hips, along with other so-called nutrients. In the manufacture of pills, there are a variety of substances added, such as starch, sucrose, talc, povidone, and a battery of other foreign body substances to bind the pills together. We have found that the average make-up of a pill being manufactured today, for anything, is comprised of at least 25% pill fillers which hold the pill together. These pill filler substances are comprised, for the most part, of products and chemicals not normally ingested into the human body as food. These pill fillers are not in the best interest of the recipient, and may very well be detrimental to overall health in the long term. They, in themselves, may cause side effects. As Vitamin C is taken by many people in doses of 1,000 mg per day, they would be ingesting 250 mg of pill fillers, or when taking 10,000 mg per day, ingesting 2,500 mg of pill fillers, on average. Pill filler purities go virtually uncontrolled by our F.D.A.. Pill fillers added to Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) can, and usually do, cause the Ascorbic Acid to break down and "go off". The same instance occurs in a majority of cases when so-called nutrients are added. This further causes side effects and causes a less beneficial effect from the Ascorbic Acid.

STABILITY OF VITAMIN C:
Discount houses and mail order firms, as well as the majority of pharmacies, sell Vitamin C under all kinds of names an at very competitive prices. The producers of these pills range from people in their garage producing pills to legitimate companies. Our company purchased, at random, 1,000 mg Vitamin C tablets from three different nationwide discount stores and pharmacies, different brands. We also purchased mail order Vitamin C powder from two different so-called legitimate producers selling powder to the public. We purchased Vitamin C with additives and without. All five samples of Vitamin C proved unstable and "went off" in a relatively short period of time, while effectiveness decreased accordingly. The very worst product purchased came from a large nationwide discount chain and was produced by a laboratory in the western part of the U.S.. This Vitamin C tested had no additives, other than pill fillers at 250 mg per tablet. Our investigation showed the product was pilled in or about January 1991. By June of 1991, the product was proving unstable. By December of 1992, anyone even looking at the product would have thrown it out, but stamped on the label of this unstable Vitamin C was an expiration date of July 1995. L-Ascorbic Acid at 99.9% purity is, in itself, an extremely stable substance subject only to high moisture. In our testing at 99.9% purity, under normal conditions at room temperature, in an unsealed bottle being opened twice daily for 2 1/2 years the product proved to be extremely stable.

PURITY INCREASES EFFECTIVENESS:
In most cases (with very few exceptions), our company has found that the purer the active ingredient is in products, whether it be a pharmaceutical or a vitamin, the more potent and stable the product remains, and thus the more effective the product is. In the few cases where active ingredients, when extracted or synthesized, prove to be unstable at their highest purity levels, our research indicates that when a stabilizing compound is used and kept at IT's highest purity level, the original active ingredient is much more stable than if less pure stabilizing compounds were used. What is being done by the producers of Vitamin C is that the product is so competitive in pricing that many manufacturers cut quality (purity) to produce a cheap, less pure product, without informing the consumer that the product is much less effective, unbeknownst to the consumer. Not only are the general public and doctors unaware of the L and D sides of Vitamin C, as well as reduced effectiveness when added to juices, they are "also" unaware of the effectiveness regarding purity ratio of the L-Ascorbic Acid. Purity levels are not required by the F.D.A. on labels of any food products, vitamins or pharmaceuticals. That, in itself, is detrimental to the public in most instances. The public, and a majority of doctors, do not realize that it takes considerably less L-Ascorbic Acid at 99.9% purity to produce the same effects as a good deal more of the less pure, less stable Vitamin C offered in most markets today. The price of Vitamin C (L-Ascorbic Acid) at 99.9% purity may be higher; however, when it comes to the effectiveness, it may prove to be cheaper, as the amount ingested is considerably less, as our research revealed.

DISPENSING, ADMINISTRATION AND INDICATIONS:
Our research indicates that Vitamin C should not be pilled. It should be dispensed by the producer at a humidity level not exceeding 40% either into capsules or powder, and sold to the public. To be most effective, the 99.9% L-Ascorbic Acid should be taken once or twice daily from 200 mg to 3,000 mg, mixed or taken with condensed orange juice made with distilled water only. People allergic to orange juice should mix or take it only with distilled water. Our research indicates that if L-Ascorbic Acid is taken in this manner, it is at it's highest potency and most effectiveness, without the majority of side effects attributed to it. For years, D.E.D.I. has researched clinical trials regarding Vitamin C, and has additionally conducted private trials with doctors and scientists using L-Ascorbic Acid at 99.9% purity, taken with concentrated orange juice and distilled water. OUR RESEARCH HAS SHOWN L-ASCORBIC ACID, ADMINISTERED IN VARYING AMOUNTS TO BE EFFECTIVE IN REDUCING RISKS OF CANCER AT AN AVERAGE OF 20% IN MALES AND 20% IN FEMALES, AND IN REDUCING RISKS OF HEART DISEASE BY 40% IN MEN AND 20% IN WOMEN. D.E.D.I.'S RESEARCH ALSO SHOWS EFFECTIVENESS IN DEPRESSION, BRUISING, PALLOR, CATARACTS, COMMON COLD, FLU, INFECTIONS, LETHARGY, STRENGTH, HEALING OF WOUNDS, CHELATION, AS WELL AN NOMINAL LIFE EXTENSION.

INDICATIONS FOR CHELATION:
Private trials done by doctors and scientists using 99.9% purity L-Ascorbic Acid with distilled water and concentrated orange juice have reported some remarkable preliminary findings regarding chelation. Dosages of 3,000 mg. per day are indicating the removal of aluminum from brain cells. This could be a big discovery in the relationship to Alzheimer's Disease and other neurological disorders. Further research, along with formal trials, should be conducted to confirm our preliminary findings. Also reported was that people scheduled for by-pass surgery due to blockage of arterial walls were treated only by administering body tolerance levels of 99.9% pure L-Ascorbic Acid daily, and 30 mg aspirin daily for eight weeks. The need for by-pass surgery dissipated, as arterial wall blockage was reduced, DRAMATICALLY, in some instances. This points out the already proven clinical trials that show a dramatic decrease in heart diseases attributed to normal use of normal Vitamin C. Again, further research, along with formal trials, should be conducted to confirm our preliminary findings. It is our opinion that producers of Vitamin C should state on their labels the amount of L-Ascorbic Acid in their Vitamin C, along with the purity level of the L-Ascorbic Acid, as it most assuredly makes a substantial difference in the effectiveness. Additionally, it should not be pilled.

Maybe this explains it!
DM

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Sat May 05, 2012 5:56 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...

Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
I'm a little slow sometimes what do you mean by that. I take it you don't think it's the best form of Vit. C. What type(s) do you think are most effective?

The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer.

So, if Mr. Obama was a molecule, would he be levorotatory or dextrorotatory?



Oh, you're in a crusty mood today aren't you. Smile Must one have a chemistry degree to talk to you? So I looked up the enantiomer, dextrorotatory and levorotatory thing but I'm still confused. Chemistry just isn't my thing. What exactly are you trying to say? What did you say your preferred form of Vitamin C is?



Ahem. Someone started it all by mentioning L-ascorbate (as opposed to D-ascorbate?)
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Sat May 05, 2012 6:10 pm      Reply with quote
More from 2010:

JonnyNJ wrote:
From: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2589959/pdf/yjbm00096-0045.pdf

Title: Regulation of Collagen Biosynthesis by Ascorbic Acid: A Review

from the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine
Excerpt: "EFFECT OF ASCORBIC ACID ANALOGS"

"Several analogs of ascorbic acid have been studied; these include dehydroascorbic acid, D-ascorbic acid, and D-isoascorbic acid [3]. As demonstrated in Fig. 4, each of these analogs was capable of stimulating relative collagen production, but none was effective at the low concentration demonstrated for L-ascorbic acid. In general, a tenfold increase in concentration was required for these compounds."

I did a google search for 'collagen, skin, dehydroascorbic acid' and read a lot of scientific literature. Personally, I wouldn't spend my money on a dehydroascorbic acid product. As always, everyone makes their own choices.

I know the dollars, the expertise, knowledge, research, etc that the larger skin care product manufacturing companies have available to them. If dehydroascorbic acid was better they would be using it. And stability would not be an issue. I have personally spent many years stabilizing liquid, powder, and lyophilized (freeze dried) components and formulations. Stabilization is not a new process. There is a known science and approach to it.

As the French say "chacun à son goût".

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Sat May 05, 2012 7:26 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...

Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
I'm a little slow sometimes what do you mean by that. I take it you don't think it's the best form of Vit. C. What type(s) do you think are most effective?

The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer.

So, if Mr. Obama was a molecule, would he be levorotatory or dextrorotatory?



Oh, you're in a crusty mood today aren't you. Smile Must one have a chemistry degree to talk to you? So I looked up the enantiomer, dextrorotatory and levorotatory thing but I'm still confused. Chemistry just isn't my thing. What exactly are you trying to say? What did you say your preferred form of Vitamin C is?

My 50/50 guess on Obama is that he would be dextrorotatory.


Is that because there is a -D next to his name on the ballot? Bad Grin


If you must know the way my mind worked it is because my weak understanding of the difference between the two terms is that dextrorotatory is positive and levorotatory is negative and I think of Obama as being positive. Hows that for a scientific mind? Laughing Did I guess right?
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Sat May 05, 2012 9:28 pm      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Ooh - I like your list. My comments ...

Vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) LEFTY C
I'm a little slow sometimes what do you mean by that. I take it you don't think it's the best form of Vit. C. What type(s) do you think are most effective?

The d/l labeling is unrelated to (+)/(−); it does not indicate which enantiomer is dextrorotatory and which is levorotatory. Rather, it says that the compound's stereochemistry is related to that of the dextrorotatory or levorotatory enantiomer.

So, if Mr. Obama was a molecule, would he be levorotatory or dextrorotatory?



Oh, you're in a crusty mood today aren't you. Smile Must one have a chemistry degree to talk to you? So I looked up the enantiomer, dextrorotatory and levorotatory thing but I'm still confused. Chemistry just isn't my thing. What exactly are you trying to say? What did you say your preferred form of Vitamin C is?

My 50/50 guess on Obama is that he would be dextrorotatory.


Is that because there is a -D next to his name on the ballot? Bad Grin


If you must know the way my mind worked it is because my weak understanding of the difference between the two terms is that dextrorotatory is positive and levorotatory is negative and I think of Obama as being positive. Hows that for a scientific mind? Laughing Did I guess right?


Dextrorotation and levorotation means polarized light bouncing off molecule rotating clockwise or counterclockwise respectively. Obama wants to set the clock back, so he is a levo. Levobama.
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Sun May 06, 2012 5:30 am      Reply with quote
We might soon be reaching the point where it could be potentially very informative to gather the collective knowledge here and post it as a sticky.

I might (or someone else) might volunteer to sift through this to summarize the gems.

I imagine such a list to be valuable. It could point out the positive effects shown for each active ingredient and list any associated caveats.

Quick, get Allure mag on the phone Bad Grin
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:22 am      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Obama wants to set the clock back, so he is a levo. Levobama.


yeah, that is one way to say it! Laughing
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Sun May 06, 2012 4:53 pm      Reply with quote
I guess we should consider "human fibroblast conditioned medium" separately from cytokines, even though they are is my mind the active ingredient. Definitely not the same as BM-MSC as DragoN likes to refer. I just answered a jom question relating to that over at barefacedtruth.com. Given the success of SkinMedica's TNS over the past decade, and the known science, we would have to give it thumbs up. Not sure how high on the list.
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Sun May 06, 2012 8:02 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
I guess we should consider "human fibroblast conditioned medium" separately from cytokines, even though they are is my mind the active ingredient. Definitely not the same as BM-MSC as DragoN likes to refer. I just answered a jom question relating to that over at barefacedtruth.com. Given the success of SkinMedica's TNS over the past decade, and the known science, we would have to give it thumbs up. Not sure how high on the list.


Thanks Dr. J. I left another question over there for you. If you're tired of critiquing products for me just let me know, I completely understand.
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Mon May 07, 2012 11:56 am      Reply with quote
jom wrote:
DrJ wrote:
I guess we should consider "human fibroblast conditioned medium" separately from cytokines, even though they are is my mind the active ingredient. Definitely not the same as BM-MSC as DragoN likes to refer. I just answered a jom question relating to that over at barefacedtruth.com. Given the success of SkinMedica's TNS over the past decade, and the known science, we would have to give it thumbs up. Not sure how high on the list.


Thanks Dr. J. I left another question over there for you. If you're tired of critiquing products for me just let me know, I completely understand.


Tired? never. This is our mission. Can't stop until every product has been scrutinized.
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Tue May 08, 2012 8:52 am      Reply with quote
a-Lipoic acid induces collagen biosynthesis involving
prolyl hydroxylase expression via activation of
TGF-b-Smad signaling in human dermal fibroblasts

a-Lipoic acid induces collagen biosynthesis Kentaro Tsuji-Naito1, Seiko Ishikura1, Mitsugu Akagawa2, Hiroshi Saeki1
1 DHC Corporation, Laboratories Division 2, Chiba, Japan
2 Graduate School of Life and Environmental Sciences, Osaka Prefecture University, Sakai, Japan
ABSTRACT
The collapse of collagenous networks with aging results in comprehensive changes in the functional properties of skin. α-Lipoic acid (LA) is known to possess beneficial effects against skin aging, effects often presumed to be its antioxidant potential. However, the effects of LA on fibrillogenesis in dermal fibroblasts have not been adequately assessed. In this study, we demonstrated for the first time that LA enhances the biosynthesis of new collagen in normal human dermal fibroblasts (NHDFs). By using a quantitative dye-binding method and immunochemical approaches, we showed that LA effectively increased the expression and subsequently the deposition of type I collagen in NHDFs. LA also facilitated the expression of a collagen-processing enzyme,
prolyl-4-hydroxylase, pointing to the existence of a posttranslational mechanism among the LA-mediated effects on collagen synthesis. In addition, we determined that both Smad 2/3 were rapidly phosphorylated by treatment with LA within 30 min, indicating that LA enhances type I collagen synthesis through the activation of Smad signaling. Pretreatment of SB431542, a specific transforming growth factor-β (TGF-β) receptor type I (TβRI) kinase inhibitor, blocked LA-mediated Smad 2/3 phosphorylations and both type I collagen and prolyl-4-hydroxylase expression, suggesting that LA-mediated cell responses are regulated by TβRI kinase-dependent pathway. Levels of TGF-β secretion after 4 hr of treatment with LA were not remarkably elevated, indicating that LA may be able to mimic TGF-β-mediated cell response. The study results produced new insights into the molecular pharmacology of LA in NHDFs, with potential applications in the treatment of aging skin.
KEYWORDS: collagen; lipoic acid; proline hydroxylase; Smad; TGF-β

Wink

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Tue May 08, 2012 9:12 am      Reply with quote
DragoN wrote:
a-Lipoic acid induces collagen biosynthesis involving
prolyl hydroxylase expression via activation of
TGF-b-Smad signaling in human dermal fibroblasts

a-Lipoic acid induces collagen biosynthesis Kentaro Tsuji-Naito1, Seiko Ishikura1, Mitsugu Akagawa2, Hiroshi Saeki1
1 DHC Corporation, Laboratories Division 2, Chiba, Japan
2 Graduate School of Life and Environmental Sciences, Osaka Prefecture University, Sakai, Japan
ABSTRACT
The collapse of collagenous networks with aging results in comprehensive changes in the functional properties of skin. α-Lipoic acid (LA) is known to possess beneficial effects against skin aging, effects often presumed to be its antioxidant potential. However, the effects of LA on fibrillogenesis in dermal fibroblasts have not been adequately assessed. In this study, we demonstrated for the first time that LA enhances the biosynthesis of new collagen in normal human dermal fibroblasts (NHDFs). By using a quantitative dye-binding method and immunochemical approaches, we showed that LA effectively increased the expression and subsequently the deposition of type I collagen in NHDFs. LA also facilitated the expression of a collagen-processing enzyme,
prolyl-4-hydroxylase, pointing to the existence of a posttranslational mechanism among the LA-mediated effects on collagen synthesis. In addition, we determined that both Smad 2/3 were rapidly phosphorylated by treatment with LA within 30 min, indicating that LA enhances type I collagen synthesis through the activation of Smad signaling. Pretreatment of SB431542, a specific transforming growth factor-β (TGF-β) receptor type I (TβRI) kinase inhibitor, blocked LA-mediated Smad 2/3 phosphorylations and both type I collagen and prolyl-4-hydroxylase expression, suggesting that LA-mediated cell responses are regulated by TβRI kinase-dependent pathway. Levels of TGF-β secretion after 4 hr of treatment with LA were not remarkably elevated, indicating that LA may be able to mimic TGF-β-mediated cell response. The study results produced new insights into the molecular pharmacology of LA in NHDFs, with potential applications in the treatment of aging skin.
KEYWORDS: collagen; lipoic acid; proline hydroxylase; Smad; TGF-β

Wink


alpha lipoic very interesting stuff due to its role in energy metabolism in the mitochrondria, but never know quite what to make of the claims for anti-aging. This paper suggests that the mechanism involves TGF-β, but the receptor inhibitor these used to make the point is specific to the β=1 version of TGF which is the one associated with scarring. So, is this the kind of collagen biosynthesis induction we want? Or the bad kind?
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