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Barefootgirl
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Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:18 pm      Reply with quote
Yes, understood.

This appears to be the same way it works with most (if not all) hormone supplementation. Maybe it could go without saying that more often, those most desirous of improvement in elasticity are the same ones in a hormone deficient state and therefore most interested in knowing about this.

BFG
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Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:05 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Yes, understood.

This appears to be the same way it works with most (if not all) hormone supplementation. Maybe it could go without saying that more often, those most desirous of improvement in elasticity are the same ones in a hormone deficient state and therefore most interested in knowing about this.

BFG


Good logic. Agree. And there are tests to detect such things. Good idea to check that out.

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Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:35 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ will probably enjoy this:

http://www.lancome-usa.com/absolue-lextrait/absolue-lextrait,default,pg.html#/section/2

Lancome Absolue L'Extrait Regenerating Ultimate made from up to two million rose cells and flogged by Julia Roberts. Retails here for $495.00.

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Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:56 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
DrJ will probably enjoy this:

http://www.lancome-usa.com/absolue-lextrait/absolue-lextrait,default,pg.html#/section/2

Lancome Absolue L'Extrait Regenerating Ultimate made from up to two million rose cells and flogged by Julia Roberts. Retails here for $495.00.


I could scrape up a few of my "native" cells and sell them for a few bucks. Utter bunkim.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:36 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Dr J, are there any other ingredients (other than the retinoid acid and cytokines that you talked about in your article) that improve elastin?


CPs are suppose to help with collegen and elastin, riley.

From SB:
Quote:

Biological Actions of Copper Peptides

Cellular Actions
Increases the proliferation of repair cells: fibroblasts, keratinocytes, chondrocytes, osteoblasts; increases nerve outgrowth, blood vessel angiogenesis, density of subcutaneous fat cells, and hair follicle size.

Biochemical Actions
Attracts healing cells (capillary cells, macrophages, mast cells), increases synthesis of collagen, elastin, metalloproteinases, anti-proteases, vascular endothelial growth factor, fibroblast growth factor 2, nerve growth factor, neutrotropins 3 and 4, erythropoietin; lowers blood pressure by inducing vasodilation of blood vessels.

Anti-inflammatory Actions
Increases anti-inflammatory proteins (superoxide dismutase, decorin), blocks the damaging release of oxidizing iron from ferritin, suppresses inflammatory cytokines (transforming growth factor beta-1, tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin 1), blocks cellular damage by oxygen free radicals and reactive carbonyl species, reduces protein glycation, improves fibroblast recovery after X-ray treatments, blocks ultraviolet damage to skin keratinocytes, increases and reduces thromboxane formation, protects hepatic tissue from tetrachloromethane poisoning, inhibits protein glycation.

Whole Body Effects
Improves aged skin (tightens skin and rebuilds skin barrier, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fine lines, wrinkles, photodamage, and hyperpigmentation), stimulates wound healing in numerous animal models and in humans, improves human hair growth and hair transplant success, protects and repairs gastric and intestinal lining, accelerates bone repair, increases infection resistance.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:09 am      Reply with quote
Foxe,

I really like the CP's and not just for Anti aging, I admit I don't really use them for that. For cuts, scrapes, rashes, ...brilliant. Anything inflamed...CP it.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:59 am      Reply with quote
DragoN wrote:
Foxe,

I really like the CP's and not just for Anti aging, I admit I don't really use them for that. For cuts, scrapes, rashes, ...brilliant. Anything inflamed...CP it.


Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? Cool

Speaking of skin, want to talk about inflammasomes and IL-1? We can learn a lot about cytokines and inflammation by looking at autoimmune skin disorders. As we look more closely, we can begin to work out very precise cytokine arrays and predict which will help and which will harm.

http://www.smw.ch/content/smw-2012-13590/

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:08 am      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? Cool


GHK-Cu is a real thing - it's found naturally in our bodies(as are the cytokines you harvest from bone marrow and then farm). And, they don't induce anti-inflammatory cytokines specifically - they 'suppress' inflammatory ones.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:45 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? Cool


GHK-Cu is a real thing - it's found naturally in our bodies(as are the cytokines you harvest from bone marrow and then farm). And, they don't induce anti-inflammatory cytokines specifically - they 'suppress' inflammatory ones.


Agree, its real, and quite natural. Clever design! And very cool. The picture gets very complex at the molecular level. GHK-Cu suppresses some inflammatory cytokines, but also increases some (basic FGF, TGF-beta-1, VEGF). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655171 Then, because cytokines work in patterns, changing one may change others. Cross talk. And then there is timing, etc. So, GHK-Cu is net anti-inflammatory, but by a lot of different mechanisms, some interdependent, some stimulatory, some inhibitory.. Functionally you can achieve a net anti-inflammatory pattern by a number of routes, GHK-Cu being one. Direct application of anti-inflammatory cytokines is another.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:03 pm      Reply with quote
Dr. P thinks we all ought to be taking GHK-Cu to keep our brains working correctly as we age.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/oximed/2012/324832/

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:43 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:

GHK-Cu suppresses some inflammatory cytokines, but also increases some (basic FGF, TGF-beta-1, VEGF). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655171 Then, because cytokines work in patterns, changing one may change others. Cross talk. And then there is timing, etc. So, GHK-Cu is net anti-inflammatory, but by a lot of different mechanisms, some interdependent, some stimulatory, some inhibitory.


Looks like the increases in basic FGF and VEGF are beneficial here:
An early increase in basic fibroblast growth factor and vascular endothelial growth factor production by GHK-Cu-treated irradiated fibroblasts may improve wound healing.

But, CPs do not increase TGF-beta 1, they suppress them. The link mentions evaluating their effects, but they were not mentioned in the results or conclusions. Dr P is always saying CPs suppress them.


Quote:
Functionally you can achieve a net anti-inflammatory pattern by a number of routes, GHK-Cu being one. Direct application of anti-inflammatory cytokines is another.


Smile

Quote:
Dr. P thinks we all ought to be taking GHK-Cu to keep our brains working correctly as we age.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/oximed/2012/324832/


Now, Dr J - are you making fun of Dr P here?? Shame on you I think it's a good thing that he is still researching his baby (the GHK-Cu) and finding new things about it. He's also said it can suppress cancer.

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5220011852/m/9481077306

Looks like CPs have lots of promising research going on about them.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:03 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
DrJ wrote:

GHK-Cu suppresses some inflammatory cytokines, but also increases some (basic FGF, TGF-beta-1, VEGF). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655171 Then, because cytokines work in patterns, changing one may change others. Cross talk. And then there is timing, etc. So, GHK-Cu is net anti-inflammatory, but by a lot of different mechanisms, some interdependent, some stimulatory, some inhibitory.


Looks like the increases in basic FGF and VEGF are beneficial here:
An early increase in basic fibroblast growth factor and vascular endothelial growth factor production by GHK-Cu-treated irradiated fibroblasts may improve wound healing.

But, CPs do not increase TGF-beta 1, they suppress them. The link mentions evaluating their effects, but they were not mentioned in the results or conclusions. Dr P is always saying CPs suppress them.


Well, apparently there is conflicting data. It's not unusual. Lot's of variety in experimental protocols.

It's complicated because you can have some inflammatory cytokines but if the bulk are anti-inflammatory it works out OK. The problem with TGF-beta 1 is that it leads to scarring if it persists. But to start the process, may be just fine.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:09 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:


Quote:
Dr. P thinks we all ought to be taking GHK-Cu to keep our brains working correctly as we age.
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/oximed/2012/324832/


Now, Dr J - are you making fun of Dr P here?? Shame on you I think it's a good thing that he is still researching his baby (the GHK-Cu) and finding new things about it. He's also said it can suppress cancer.

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5220011852/m/9481077306

Looks like CPs have lots of promising research going on about them.


No I like Dr.P. I used to live on Mercer Island, and could practically see his office from my house. Smallish body of water separates MI & Factoria on Lake WA.

I do think it amusing that CP's have become a cure all though. I can picture DrP snorting CP's through a straw to get direct brain dosing via the olfactory apparatus.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:48 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:

Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? Cool


Are you saying that AnteAGE will give the same results as dermarolling and laser treatments?

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:57 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
DrJ wrote:

Why not skip the step where you try to artificially induce anti-inflammatory cytokines, and just apply the real things directly? Cool


Are you saying that AnteAGE will give the same results as dermarolling and laser treatments?


No. Just having fun with the Dr P and the Cu-Pep crowd. I have seen some miserable laser failures, by the way. I actually think that the combination of physical "collagen induction" plus AnteAGE is a very logical notion. Now hearing anecdotal evidence about its use in medical settings that seem to confirm (very preliminary, but tantalizing). Its not about avoiding the damage, but about healing in a "youthful" fashion. Not just faster , but higher quality.

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Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:10 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:


I do think it amusing that CP's have become a cure all though. I can picture DrP snorting CP's through a straw to get direct brain dosing via the olfactory apparatus.



HaHaHa! I can picture that too! I think he's had forum users suggest a GHK supplement too!
Image

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:44 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
No I like Dr.P. I used to live on Mercer Island, and could practically see his office from my house. Smallish body of water separates MI & Factoria on Lake WA.


I was even closer...I used to live in New Castle and his office overlooks one of my fav stores...Nordstrom Rack!

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:24 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
DrJ wrote:
No I like Dr.P. I used to live on Mercer Island, and could practically see his office from my house. Smallish body of water separates MI & Factoria on Lake WA.


I was even closer...I used to live in New Castle and his office overlooks one of my fav stores...Nordstrom Rack!


I wonder if The Keg is still there. Loved their salad bar.

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:29 pm      Reply with quote
Speaking of fantastic ingredients, I am in Las Vegas to attend IECSC Beauty Show (along with 10,000 estheticians, esthetic physicians, spa folks), Any new stuff you want me to investigate? It's not the ingredients show (we are going to one of those next month!), but lots of devices & stuff here. I am planning some interviews.

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:34 pm      Reply with quote
DrJ wrote:
Speaking of fantastic ingredients, I am in Las Vegas to attend IECSC Beauty Show (along with 10,000 estheticians, esthetic physicians, spa folks), Any new stuff you want me to investigate? It's not the ingredients show (we are going to one of those next month!), but lots of devices & stuff here. I am planning some interviews.


A report an any gadgets and devices that you think have actual merit would be useful. Perhaps you could start a new thread on innovations that you see which show promise.

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Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:35 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
DrJ wrote:
Speaking of fantastic ingredients, I am in Las Vegas to attend IECSC Beauty Show (along with 10,000 estheticians, esthetic physicians, spa folks), Any new stuff you want me to investigate? It's not the ingredients show (we are going to one of those next month!), but lots of devices & stuff here. I am planning some interviews.


A report an any gadgets and devices that you think have actual merit would be useful. Perhaps you could start a new thread on innovations that you see which show promise.


I agree with Keliu. Any gadgets that show some real promise would be great. Thanks Dr. J

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Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:59 am      Reply with quote
Go checkout the Dermapen booth.

BFG
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Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:03 pm      Reply with quote
http://www.facebook.com/#!/DermaPen

BFG
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Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:25 pm      Reply with quote
Barefootgirl wrote:
Go checkout the Dermapen booth.

BFG

DermaPen not here. There are rollers and punches, nothing very new in that real it seems. Lots of the usual characters. Equipment is the big attraction. Dr. George and I have been walking the floor giving out Truth Matters buttons, but only to those with good science. Surprising how many people here already know about BFT.

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:24 am      Reply with quote
Just saw an interesting new dermastamp. I'll scan some pics later.

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