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Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:26 pm  |
This is from the latest NCN newsletter:
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DNA & EGF - Can you believe everything you read?
DNA (Renovage/Teprenone) and EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor) have been getting some bad press by a "mad" scientist on several skin care forums. The problem is that this person has not done any testing of either one of them at all and openly admits it. He/she is merely searching on the internet for negative information and then writing about it in his/her blog. I am NOT into mud slingling at all.... but I just want you to be aware of what this person is doing - I will not get into the "why". I have contacted the Vice President of Sederma (manufacturer of Renovage) and will report what she says regarding these unfounded claims. DNA & EGF have made a significant difference in not only my skin but yours, so I'll get to the bottom of this for all of us.
Please do a search yourself on anything, and I mean anything (I searched for 'carrots cause cancer') and you will get a plethroa of hits claiming how bad they are for you.....
Consumers beware of what you read on the internet....you can't believe everything you read, and not eveyone can be trusted... |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:17 pm |
Yep! Saw that Keliu. Nanci is very educated in skin care plus has years of experience. She only sells what she believes in based on a variety of parameters. 
I'm glad to see her weigh in on this issue. It seems appropriate. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:06 pm |
| Dr. Pickart is not a fan of EGF based on a posting of his on Skin Bio forum. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:46 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
This is from the latest NCN newsletter:
| Quote: |
DNA & EGF - Can you believe everything you read?
DNA (Renovage/Teprenone) and EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor) have been getting some bad press by a "mad" scientist on several skin care forums. The problem is that this person has not done any testing of either one of them at all and openly admits it. He/she is merely searching on the internet for negative information and then writing about it in his/her blog. I am NOT into mud slingling at all.... but I just want you to be aware of what this person is doing - I will not get into the "why". I have contacted the Vice President of Sederma (manufacturer of Renovage) and will report what she says regarding these unfounded claims. DNA & EGF have made a significant difference in not only my skin but yours, so I'll get to the bottom of this for all of us.
Please do a search yourself on anything, and I mean anything (I searched for 'carrots cause cancer') and you will get a plethroa of hits claiming how bad they are for you.....
Consumers beware of what you read on the internet....you can't believe everything you read, and not eveyone can be trusted... |
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That's a good idea. In fact, I think we should invite the Sederma/Croda people here for an open debate on the science issues. See if they can defend teprenome, when others couldn't even get it FDA approved as an ulcer dug, on safety issues.
Denise Gabriele Vice President, Sales & Marketing apparently has no medical or science degrees. She would likely be a poor choice.
I have already attempted to contact Kevin Gallagher, the president of Sederma, but have not yet received a reply. I don't think he has any advanced degrees either, but maybe they can find somebody in the company who knows about this and is willing to engage in a public debate, on the scientific merits and safety issues.
If anyone else wants to encourage this, I have their email addresses and phone numbers. I don't want to publish them publicly, but will share if you email me. I have tried, as have some other scientists from the university community, without success to find anyone who can provide a clear scientific rationale with solid, defendable evidence. |
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:48 pm |
| Who is Nanci, by the way? |
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Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:51 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Who is Nanci, by the way? |
http://ncnskincare.com/
About Nanci Callahan Nivolo
NCN Professional Skin Care was created due to client demand. Working in Spas and Medi-Spas, I was limited by products offered and the ingredients therein. After repeated requests about my personal skin care regimen and the frustration women felt by overwhelming choices, and their lack of results, NCN Professional SkinCare was born!
I’m a skin care professional – a Certified Aesthetician in the state of Connecticut and a Medical Aesthetician in the state of Arizona. Effective skin care products are are my passion. What I do is research – constantly on the look out for the best possible proven, anti-aging ingredients and products.
I want the most state-of-the-art technology available – just like you do. I’m a product junkie who tries and compares all of the latest. As a baby boomer, I know how important anti-aging and age reversal skin care products are. My mission is to offer you the highest quality, cutting edge, highly effective proven ingredients available without a prescription to help our skin age more slowly. Our products are based on cell renewal and collagen production. If you don’t get your glow back, you get your money back!
The response has been phenomenal! Thank you all so much for the incredible feedback, for loving my line, and for believing in me.
My pledge to you – if something comes along that’s better, I WILL HAVE IT. Let’s age gracefully together! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:47 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Dr. Pickart is not a fan of EGF based on a posting of his on Skin Bio forum. |
I posted this over on the CP thread in regards to DrP and his recent thoughts on mixing CP's and EFG for those interested:
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/53610804
He also started a thread on companies selling "CP Activators":
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/7661080436
Not to highjack this thread, but seeing the topic came up about her new CP with EFG, thought I would post. |
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Female: 42...Fair/Dry...Brown Hair/Green Eyes...Using: Born Again MSM Cream...Country Divine Emu Serum...Juvederm...Botox...Retin-A .05%...Easy Eye Solutions...Started 2/9/12 with Skin Bio Skin Signals Cream and TTT, Spot treating with TriRed |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:58 am |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:01 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
It is still for sale at NCN, under best sellers,
http://ncnskincare.com/best-sellers-c-25/cp-accelerator-normal-dry-skin-p-38 |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:05 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
Indeed she was...we've been having a little discussion about this over on the CP thread. From what I understand the issue is the combo of using Matrixyl with CP's and the whole TGF Beta 1 deal. I don't completely understand this myself, so I am still doing a bit of research on it. In the mean time, Matrixyl will be nowhere near my face while using CP's. |
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Female: 42...Fair/Dry...Brown Hair/Green Eyes...Using: Born Again MSM Cream...Country Divine Emu Serum...Juvederm...Botox...Retin-A .05%...Easy Eye Solutions...Started 2/9/12 with Skin Bio Skin Signals Cream and TTT, Spot treating with TriRed |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:07 am |
| If Matrixyl is indeed the culprit, it makes me wonder why a name such as "CP Accelerator" would be tagged to such a product containing that very ingredient. It is VERY misleading IMHO... |
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Female: 42...Fair/Dry...Brown Hair/Green Eyes...Using: Born Again MSM Cream...Country Divine Emu Serum...Juvederm...Botox...Retin-A .05%...Easy Eye Solutions...Started 2/9/12 with Skin Bio Skin Signals Cream and TTT, Spot treating with TriRed |
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Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:10 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
Yes, I think that may be what Dr. Pickart is talking about in a veiled way. That is the only CP Activator that I am aware of. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I have a feeling NCN stopped selling the CP's because she was coming out with a CP product of her own. Just pure conjecture on my part. |
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Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:24 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
Yes, I think that may be what Dr. Pickart is talking about in a veiled way. That is the only CP Activator that I am aware of. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I have a feeling NCN stopped selling the CP's because she was coming out with a CP product of her own. Just pure conjecture on my part. |
agghhh...i hate this thread... I don't have time to research every ingredient i purchase, i count on the intelligence and integrity of the seller as well as people's experience w/the product ... too often on these boards a product, gadet,or treatment is upheld as the next best/great hope only to be annhilated by page 10.....shame on me....if my skin weren't looking so damn good i'd throw everything in the trash...
Rileygirl - that was my exact thought when NCN stopped selling CPs.
""Dr."" J --  h? thanks for lookin' out for us........................... |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:02 am |
| moongoddess wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
Yes, I think that may be what Dr. Pickart is talking about in a veiled way. That is the only CP Activator that I am aware of. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I have a feeling NCN stopped selling the CP's because she was coming out with a CP product of her own. Just pure conjecture on my part. |
agghhh...i hate this thread... I don't have time to research every ingredient i purchase, i count on the intelligence and integrity of the seller as well as people's experience w/the product ... too often on these boards a product, gadet,or treatment is upheld as the next best/great hope only to be annhilated by page 10.....shame on me....if my skin weren't looking so damn good i'd throw everything in the trash...
Rileygirl - that was my exact thought when NCN stopped selling CPs.
""Dr."" J -- h? thanks for lookin' out for us........................... |
That is a major issue, you can find a gazillion sites like......http://www.healthy-communications.com/harmfulingredients1.html telling you what is no good or dangerous and just as many touting the benefits of many of those same ingredients.......who to believe?  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:58 am |
| I don't post much here, but I did post a review on this product and, to date, I'm still seeing excellent results. It is bothersome to see one of its ingredients come under scrutiny. I have a great deal of trust in Nanci and her ethics. In the past, I have dissed the ability of many ingredients to be able to pass through our skin barrier. Recently, I restarted prescription hrt using a transdermal gel whose delivery system is simply water, alcohol and carbomer - and it actually works. Where I'm headed with this is, all of these actives we put on our face, while they may or may not be doing much for whatever we intended them to, how much is actually being absorbed into our bodies and where is it landing? We honestly have very little research with regarding to this that I am aware of. Just a pause for thought ladies and gentlemen. |
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53 and starting to show it |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:47 am |
I don't want to go back to find out who it was that said not to use matrixyl with CPs...but...did Dr. J. agree with that? I understand Elvis has left the building, but somehow I do think he's still reading. Just a hunch. Anyone know what his stand was on using these 2 ingredients together?
I saw on the Skinbio thread that someone was quoted as saying it's ok to use the 2 together but I can't tell if it was said by DrJ or DrP. |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:30 am |
| AmazingRacer wrote: |
I don't want to go back to find out who it was that said not to use matrixyl with CPs...but...did Dr. J. agree with that? I understand Elvis has left the building, but somehow I do think he's still reading. Just a hunch. Anyone know what his stand was on using these 2 ingredients together?
I saw on the Skinbio thread that someone was quoted as saying it's ok to use the 2 together but I can't tell if it was said by DrJ or DrP. |
I think many of us are finding the timing of what was said and NCN no longer selling the SkinBio products a little coincidental, no proof just speculating.
It has been a product she (Nanci) has sold for a long time now?  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:33 pm |
| Quote: |
| Recently, I restarted prescription hrt using a transdermal gel whose delivery system is simply water, alcohol and carbomer - and it actually works |
70% water...we are. ETOH, long history of very effectively enhancing penetration.
Concentration gradients ,rates of diffusion, molecular size ,saturation, general health of skin, wounding etc.etc. will affect what has any chance of passing through,as well as the carrier.
http://www.asiapharmaceutics.info/article.asp?issn=0973-8398;year=2010;volume=4;issue=3;spage=173;epage=183;aulast=Mathur
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12512013
J Cosmet Sci. 2002 Nov-Dec;53(6):363-74.
The skin-permeation-enhancing effect of phosphatidylcholine: caffeine as a model active ingredient.
Kim C, Shim J, Han S, Chang I.
Source
Skin Research Institute, Pacific Co/R&D Center, 314-1, Bora-ri, Kiheung-eup, Yongin-si, Kyounggi-do, 449-900, Korea.
Abstract
Phospholipids or liposomes are recognized to have skin permeation enhancing ability, although their mechanisms are still controversial. The aim of this study was to establish a method of increasing the skin permeation of active ingredients, using phosphatidylcholine as a permeation enhancer. Caffeine was used as a model active ingredient and in vitro skin penetration experiments were performed using Franz-type diffusion cells to determine the amount of absorbed caffeine. Lipid vesicles were prepared by the microfluidization process. The encapsulation efficiency of caffeine was found to be very low due to the instability of the liposome structure and the water solubility of caffeine. However, the amount of absorbed caffeine was nearly independent of the encapsulation efficiency and the vesicle size, but increased with the increase of phosphatidylcholine concentration. These results indicated that phosphatidylcholine could act as a penetration enhancer, irrespective of its presence in vesicular form or solubilized form.
Caffeine was the model for the effects of PC, however PC itself could very well be considered an active...as it is. |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:50 pm |
| DragoN, another carrier that I have found is aloe vera. This is a personal formulation (not for skincare or for sale)that is aloe, carbomer and an assortment of essential oils. I tried it first with just water and carbomer and then switched from the water to aloe. It performs much better in the aloe. It's some pretty potent stuff. This is strictly an observation on the part of myself and family - no scientific data to back this up other than a very skeptical hubby who doesn't think anything of this nature really works or I should say didn't. |
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53 and starting to show it |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:10 pm |
Firefox is a huge fan of Aloe. She can post a boat load of research to back up its use in skincare.
I don't mind it. Tends to sit on my skin too long. Personal preference thing on that. |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:16 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| Wasn't NCN selling a CP Activator? Although I can't see it on the site now. I wonder if the issue of the CP Activator is why NCN stopped selling SkinBio's CPs? |
Yes, I think that may be what Dr. Pickart is talking about in a veiled way. That is the only CP Activator that I am aware of. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I have a feeling NCN stopped selling the CP's because she was coming out with a CP product of her own. Just pure conjecture on my part. |
Hi everyone, I’d like to answer a couple of your questions for you......Dr. Pickart is not talking about my CP Accelerator. He's referring to products that have copper peptide in them; there is no Copper Peptide in CP Accelerator. This is a quote from the Skin Biology post you’re discussing, “The products use a mixture of GHK-copper and other types of peptides that increase collagen in the skin.” The name CP Accelerator IS misleading and that's why the name is being changed. The new name will be Multi-Active Accelerator. I’m pretty positive that Dr. Pickart isn’t even aware of my CP Accelerator or the fact that I came out with my own version of CP.
I stopped selling CP's because 1: I had turned into Skin Biology's #1 customer service representative and I didn’t feel that was fair to my clients OR to me because it was taking up a lot of my time, and I mean everyday. 2: I love Dr. Pickart and copper peptide but feel that his products are too strong for too many people – even his GHK has caused the “uglies” and/or cross hatching under the eyes. 3: We don’t agree on everything when it comes to what ingredients can and should or should not be used together (although we have never discussed it).
RE: the new non-surgical face lift device: I really don’t like to say anything negative about anyone at all… but I want you to know that the only reason I stopped offering the Tua products is because of my distributor’s customer service (more like lack of customer service). And it’s really too bad but his lack of customer service was a direct reflection on MY customer service, and I just can’t have that. |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:29 pm |
Thank you so very much for clarifying all of this for us NCN, I just received an order from you this past week (fast) and I chose the CP Accelerator as a sample and have to say I love how it sinks in and the wonderful feeling on my skin!
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:56 pm |
| NCN wrote: |
Hi everyone, I’d like to answer a couple of your questions for you......Dr. Pickart is not talking about my CP Accelerator. He's referring to products that have copper peptide in them; there is no Copper Peptide in CP Accelerator. This is a quote from the Skin Biology post you’re discussing, “The products use a mixture of GHK-copper and other types of peptides that increase collagen in the skin.” |
I understand your CP Accelerator is a stand-alone product, but don't you also say it can be used over GHK-Cu? I know many people on this forum layer the two products (and I assumed it was at least okayed, if not outright recommended, by you). I don't see any difference between having GHK-Cu and other peptides applied as one product or layered (two separate products). Your CP Accelerator does contain peptides:
Organic Aloe Juice, Organic Coconut Oil, 15% Matrixyl 3000, 5% DMAE Bitartrate, Oat Beta Glucan, Pearl Powder, Emulsifying Wax NF, Palm Stearic Acid, Kosher Vegetable Glycerin, Organic Jojoba Oil, Meadowfoam Seed Oil, Avocado Oil, Witch Hazel, Vitamin E, Acetyl Tetrapeptide-9, Matrixyl Synthe’6, Phenoxyethanol, MSM, Xanthan Gum, Organic Black Willowbark Extract, Mannan, Neem Oil, Rosemary, Carrot Seed Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid.
Would you care to comment on this post by Dr. Pickart?
Mixing EGF and copper peptides is a bad idea. Very little EGF can penetrate the skin. I can find no credible evidence that EGF in cosmetics actually improves skin.
If enough EGF penetrated the skin to have an effect, then there are the toxicity problems of EGF. Wound healing studies with EGF were stopped because the EGF built up in the blood stream. EGF causes serious hair loss. The injection of 2 milligrams of EGF into sheep causes all the wool hair to fall out within a week.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/5361080436
Your new GHK-Cu Copper Peptide Serum With EGF ingredients list:
Purified Water, Aloe Extract, GHK-Cu Copper Tripeptide, Licorice, Collagen, Sea Kelp Bioferment, Bifida Ferment Lysate, Beta-Glucan, EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor), Leuconostoc/Radish Root (natural preservative). |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:59 pm |
In reality, how is any lay-person supposed to figure all this stuff out? We all know that mixing prescription meds can be dangerous, that is one of the reasons why we need a doctor to supervise what we're taking. But in the case of topicals - I've never seen any cosmetic topical which contains a warning which says "Do not use with ingredient X".
When we purchase a serum, we expect that those ingredients are formulated to work well together - but when we layer a cocktail of serums (which most of us do) how do we know that all of those will combine favourably? |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:24 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
| ......The aim of this study was to establish a method of increasing the skin permeation of active ingredients, using phosphatidylcholine as a permeation enhancer. Caffeine was used as a model active ingredient ...... |
Dragon,
I know PC is a component of egg yolk lecithin and put it to my serum as emulfisier to enhance penetration.
A dumb question as I don't grasp the main point of the study you quoted.
What does caffeine do? Also enhancing penetration? Can egg yolk lecithin replace caffeine? |
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