Review: Cellese AnteAGE Serum & Accelerator
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free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:08 pm

DrJ wrote:

Back in the 1950's there was a movement to grow mushrooms in your basement (for fun & profit). I think it had some unscrupulous promoters behind it. So I was thinking we could do home bioreactors. Farming cytokines for fun & profit. Make it a kitchen appliance. Plug it in, add BM-MSC starter kit, and poof - enough cytokines for the whole family - heck, the whole neighborhood. Maybe sell from your front curb. Wink

OK, so you want a pure cytokines DIY product.

So, you are into ceramides, too?

Instead of selling lemonade the kids could sell BM-MSC!

After using Retin A and AHAs at night I look for products aimed at barrier repair to use during the day. Those with cholesterol, ceramides, and essential/nonessential free fatty acids.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9308554

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35800&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=barrier+repair&start=0

I don't want a DIY product I want you to make it! Laughing

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:24 pm

jom wrote:

I have no problem being modular (except when my oils don't layer well over the other products I'm using Wink

) but wouldn't mind it if you included oils in the AnteAGE day product I've been asking for that doesn't contain the retinol. Just BM-MSC, ceramides, cholesterol, other barrier repair stuff and the oils. Sounds good. Wish I were a DIY kinda girl (except where would I get the BM-MSC hmm

).

Yes please, except hold the oleic acid in mine! Wink

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:12 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

jom wrote:

I have no problem being modular (except when my oils don't layer well over the other products I'm using Wink

) but wouldn't mind it if you included oils in the AnteAGE day product I've been asking for that doesn't contain the retinol. Just BM-MSC, ceramides, cholesterol, other barrier repair stuff and the oils. Sounds good. Wish I were a DIY kinda girl (except where would I get the BM-MSC hmm

).

Yes please, except hold the oleic acid in mine! Wink

Have it your way? Oh wait, thats Burger King

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:14 pm

jom wrote:

......I look for products aimed at barrier repair to use during the day. Those with cholesterol, ceramides, and essential/nonessential free fatty acids......I don't want a DIY product......

DIY, pretty easy:

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/sk-influx-v.html

INCI: Ceramide 3 (and) Ceramide 6 (and) Ceramide I (and) Phytosphingosine (and) Cholesterol (and) Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate (and) Carbomer (and) Xanthan Gum

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:03 pm

Jom

Quote:

Just BM-MSC, ceramides, cholesterol, other barrier repair stuff and the oils.

I am more interested in having the skin do its job better. i.e. produce its own ceramides. Which is what it does quite well with the correct cofactors present. Also present in AnteAge. Up regulate endogenous production as opposed to exogenous application, which may act to down regulate in a reverse feedback mechanism. Balance. More is not better. Work with cell physiology and the mechanisms of repair as opposed to applying a bandage that isn't necessary.

Quote:

DragoN or Dr. J - can either if you please share how AnteAGE is similar/different/better than Estee Lauder Advanced Night Repair?

That was going to be the next product that I added to my regimen, but I am open to possibly changing that.

Bethany, definitely I would suggest AnteAge over EL. EL is missing too many key players. It will be only moderately helpful, more along the lines of a slightly inspired moisturizer, but that would be about it. The EL focus is moisture enhancing with a couple actives. Pull and hold water in the skin = reduction of fine lines. Every body happy. But, it's a trick. It's temporary. No real fundamental physiological changes.

1.0 oz WATER\AQUA\EAU, BIFIDA FERMENT LYSATE, METHYL GLUCETH-20, PEG-75, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, BIS-PEG-18 METHYL ETHER DIMETHYL SILANE, ARABIDOPSIS THALIANA EXTRACT, TRIPEPTIDE-32, ETHYLHEXYL METHOXYCINNAMATE, LACTOBACILLUS FERMENT, COLA ACUMINATA (KOLA) EXTRACT, RETINYL PALMITATE, PANTETHINE, CAFFEINE, GLYCERETH-26, SODIUM RNA, SQUALANE, OLETH-3 PHOSPHATE, OLETH-3, OLETH-5, BISABOLOL, CHOLETH-24, CETETH-24, HYDROGENATED LECITHIN, ANTHEMIS NOBILIS (CHAMOMILE), SODIUM HYALURONATE, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, LECITHIN, XANTHAN GUM, TEA-CARBOMER, TRISODIUM EDTA, BHT, PHENOXYETHANOL, METHYLPARABEN, BENZYL ALCOHOL, GREEN 5 (CI 61570), YELLOW 5 (CI 19140), RED 4 (CI 14700)

AnteAge, is a treatment..not a moisturizer. I am biased, I am very familiar with the actives in AnteAge, I know they are effective with or without the BM MSC cytokines. Win win if you are not inclined to DIY.

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:27 pm

DragoN wrote:

I am more interested in having the skin do its job better. i.e. produce its own ceramides. Which is what it does quite well with the correct cofactors present. Also present in AnteAge. Up regulate endogenous production as opposed to exogenous application, which may act to down regulate in a reverse feedback mechanism. Balance. More is not better, Work with cell physiology and the mechanisms of repair as opposed to applying a bandage that isn't necessary.

Thanks DragoN, very interesting. Makes sense. How does the skin produce its own ceramides? And, what products or ingredients help it make it's own ceramides?

Are you saying that using the AnteAGE serum and accelerator twice per day would allow the skin to produce it's own ceramides?

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:45 pm

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

DragoN or Dr. J - can either if you please share how AnteAGE is similar/different/better than Estee Lauder Advanced Night Repair?

That was going to be the next product that I added to my regimen, but I am open to possibly changing that.

Bethany, definitely I would suggest AnteAge over EL. EL is missing too many key players. It will be only moderately helpful, more along the lines of a slightly inspired moisturizer, but that would be about it. The EL focus is moisture enhancing with a couple actives. Pull and hold water in the skin = reduction of fine lines. Every body happy. But, it's a trick. It's temporary. No real fundamental physiological changes.

1.0 oz WATER\AQUA\EAU, BIFIDA FERMENT LYSATE, METHYL GLUCETH-20, PEG-75, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, BIS-PEG-18 METHYL ETHER DIMETHYL SILANE, ARABIDOPSIS THALIANA EXTRACT, TRIPEPTIDE-32, ETHYLHEXYL METHOXYCINNAMATE, LACTOBACILLUS FERMENT, COLA ACUMINATA (KOLA) EXTRACT, RETINYL PALMITATE, PANTETHINE, CAFFEINE, GLYCERETH-26, SODIUM RNA, SQUALANE, OLETH-3 PHOSPHATE, OLETH-3, OLETH-5, BISABOLOL, CHOLETH-24, CETETH-24, HYDROGENATED LECITHIN, ANTHEMIS NOBILIS (CHAMOMILE), SODIUM HYALURONATE, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, LECITHIN, XANTHAN GUM, TEA-CARBOMER, TRISODIUM EDTA, BHT, PHENOXYETHANOL, METHYLPARABEN, BENZYL ALCOHOL, GREEN 5 (CI 61570), YELLOW 5 (CI 19140), RED 4 (CI 14700)

AnteAge, is a treatment..not a moisturizer. I am biased, I am very familiar with the actives in AnteAge, I know they are effective with or without the BM MSC cytokines. Win win if you are not inclined to DIY.

Thank you for the insight!

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:05 pm

DragoN, I would be interested in hearing what you think would be the perfect anti-aging skin regimen for middle aged women, with AnteAGE as the core product. What would be needed to round it out? (other than sunscreen of curse)

BTW, I will be reading about the various forms of Vit A per Dr. Fernandes this evening based on your feedback a few posts above. I thought Retin A was the Vit A of choice, so I have some catching up to do since I have been off the forum for a bit!

Thanks!

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:10 pm

Bethany, I tried EL and it did nothing at all. I used to love Remergent, but saw nothing like it in the EL product.
I liked Lifeline and am currently giving Cellese a go, so far I'm liking it. My skin is very calm and balanced, noticeably so. It is too early to tell what the end result will be in a month or more.
I did like Lifeline's SPF ingredient because then I did not need any SS or tinted moisturizer--my skin looked good with just the Day product on. With Cellese I have to wear SPF over it which makes more layers on my skin. I won't call it a downside exactly, but I did like just putting on one layer and going for the day.

free skin care · Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:56 pm

existential lady wrote:

Bethany, I tried EL and it did nothing at all. I used to love Remergent, but saw nothing like it in the EL product.
I liked Lifeline and am currently giving Cellese a go, so far I'm liking it. My skin is very calm and balanced, noticeably so. It is too early to tell what the end result will be in a month or more.
I did like Lifeline's SPF ingredient because then I did not need any SS or tinted moisturizer--my skin looked good with just the Day product on. With Cellese I have to wear SPF over it which makes more layers on my skin. I won't call it a downside exactly, but I did like just putting on one layer and going for the day.

Thank you for sharing! Calm and balanced sounds very appealing at the moment because I overdid it with the Retin A!

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:55 am

For Jom.
Nicotinamide increases biosynthesis of ceramides as well as other stratum corneum lipids to improve the epidermal permeability barrier.
Tanno O, Ota Y, Kitamura N, Katsube T, Inoue S.
Source

Basic Research Laboratory, Kanebo Ltd, 5-3-28 Kotobuki-cho, Odawara-shi, Kanagawa 250-0002, Japan.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Stratum corneum lipids, particularly ceramides, are important components of the epidermal permeability barrier that are decreased in atopic dermatitis and aged skin.
OBJECTIVES:

We investigated the effects of nicotinamide, one of the B vitamins, on biosynthesis of sphingolipids, including ceramides and other stratum corneum lipids, in cultured normal human keratinocytes, and on the epidermal permeability barrier in vivo.
METHODS:

The rate of sphingolipid biosynthesis was measured by the incorporation of [14C]-serine into sphingolipids.
RESULTS:

When the cells were incubated with 1-30 micromol L-1 nicotinamide for 6 days, the rate of ceramide biosynthesis was increased dose-dependently by 4.1-5. 5-fold on the sixth day compared with control. Nicotinamide also increased the synthesis of glucosylceramide (7.4-fold) and sphingomyelin (3.1-fold) in the same concentration range effective for ceramide synthesis. Furthermore, the activity of serine palmitoyltransferase (SPT), the rate-limiting enzyme in sphingolipid synthesis, was increased in nicotinamide-treated cells. Nicotinamide increased the levels of human LCB1 and LCB2 mRNA, both of which encode subunits of SPT. This suggested that the increase in SPT activity was due to an increase in SPT mRNA. Nicotinamide increased not only ceramide synthesis but also free fatty acid (2.3-fold) and cholesterol synthesis (1.5-fold). Topical application of nicotinamide increased ceramide and free fatty acid levels in the stratum corneum, and decreased transepidermal water loss in dry skin.
CONCLUSIONS:

Nicotinamide improved the permeability barrier by stimulating de novo synthesis of ceramides, with upregulation of SPT and other intercellular lipids.

You don't need to apply a ceramide mix unless you are suffering a dermal disease. You can up regulate your own endogenous production. It's really quite effective in a healthy individual. Also helpful for those that suffer from various diseases. There are sharp decreases in intercellular lipids after age 40 resulting in more susceptibility to dry skin conditions. However, it seems that can be reversed. N=1...it can be done.

Quote:

DragoN, I would be interested in hearing what you think would be the perfect anti-aging skin regimen for middle aged women, with AnteAGE as the core product. What would be needed to round it out? (other than sunscreen of curse)

An SS packed with anti aging actives? If I knew exactly the concentration of everything in DrJ's mix, which he has stated is at clinically effective levels in the AnteAge serums...I could perhaps cobble a better answer together. I am not a fan of Tetra C and I am partial to my C serums under my SS. I like to create my anti aging war fare.

I like the serums. They are good, my skin is calm and that's saying something. Any other products on my face generally cause problems for me. This has not. But,it's also very similar to my jungle juju anyways.

Want to thank you for the link to the rolling thread Bethany, I had not read the info you had posted previously. Are you still rolling?

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:09 am

DragoN wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

what exactly are you hoping to see from the AnteAGE products?

The jungle juice I have been slapping together is based on similar lines as AnteAge, without the BM MSC cytokine mix. Will it make that much of a difference to N=1 ?

jom wrote:

I don’t know what AnteAGE can do for me that other products haven’t already done. In short, do I really NEED these products, no. I’m just really curious and like to try new things every once in a while. It's just an experiment (N=1) to see what if anything the AnteAGE can do for me.

Thanks for the replies Jom and Dragon.

I started the AnteAGE products on 4/14. I DO have issues that I would like to see improvement in (redness, wrinkles, normal aging, as I also will be 50 next year). I stopped all my other products for my experiment (n=1). I have dry, sensitive skin these days and I haven't had any issues with either the serum or the accelerator. No sensitivity at all, no redness, no burning, etc.

The accelerator is my favorite of the 2 products due to my dry skin. So far it is one of the better treatment moisturizers I have used as it keeps my skin moist, with no flakes or dryness and seems to make my skin behave like it did when it was "normal". Not near enough time to report any other type of results.

Dr. J, if you do change formulas, I hope you will consider keeping the original you have come up with, as well. I am not interested in EO's in a product due to my sensitivity and I would hate for the accelerator to be changed in any way!

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:42 am

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

DragoN or Dr. J - can either if you please share how AnteAGE is similar/different/better than Estee Lauder Advanced Night Repair?

That was going to be the next product that I added to my regimen, but I am open to possibly changing that.

Bethany, definitely I would suggest AnteAge over EL. EL is missing too many key players. It will be only moderately helpful, more along the lines of a slightly inspired moisturizer, but that would be about it. The EL focus is moisture enhancing with a couple actives. Pull and hold water in the skin = reduction of fine lines. Every body happy. But, it's a trick. It's temporary. No real fundamental physiological changes.

AnteAge, is a treatment..not a moisturizer. I am biased, I am very familiar with the actives in AnteAge, I know they are effective with or without the BM MSC cytokines. Win win if you are not inclined to DIY.

I was under the impression that Dr. Yarosh's research into DNA and skin aging was very well respected. Are you saying that all he has done is develop a reasonable moisturiser and that his products have no other benefit?

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:07 am

Keliu wrote:

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

DragoN or Dr. J - can either if you please share how AnteAGE is similar/different/better than Estee Lauder Advanced Night Repair?

That was going to be the next product that I added to my regimen, but I am open to possibly changing that.

Bethany, definitely I would suggest AnteAge over EL. EL is missing too many key players. It will be only moderately helpful, more along the lines of a slightly inspired moisturizer, but that would be about it. The EL focus is moisture enhancing with a couple actives. Pull and hold water in the skin = reduction of fine lines. Every body happy. But, it's a trick. It's temporary. No real fundamental physiological changes.

AnteAge, is a treatment..not a moisturizer. I am biased, I am very familiar with the actives in AnteAge, I know they are effective with or without the BM MSC cytokines. Win win if you are not inclined to DIY.

I was under the impression that Dr. Yarosh's research into DNA and skin aging was very well respected. Are you saying that all he has done is develop a reasonable moisturiser and that his products have no other benefit?

No, the work of AGI Dermatics (which was bought by EL) was good science. I believe Dr. Yarosh has now gone on to to other things.

The issue with the DNA repair active concept is that is very narrow, and aimed at one thing only - repairing DNA that was just damaged (that day), because cells with DNA damage don't last very long. It's rescuing them. We talked about the controversy of the wisdom of saving calls that maybe need to be sacrificed.

And, what about the photodamage that was there before today? The cross-linked collagen fibrils? All that? The difference with a balanced cytokine approach, as well as the system approach, is that it address not just one type of damage, but rejuvenation. NOT JUST PREVENTION, BUT REPAIR AS WELL. And it works on intrinsic as well as extrinsic aging, both long and short term. Some of the benefits of DNA repair are mediated through cytokines (e.g. MMP-1 modulation). We have that covered.

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:12 am

DrJ wrote:

The superstar active in AnteAGE is a collection of chemicals called cytokines whose pattern is specifically tuned to deal with skin rejuvenation. There are multiple mechanisms involved. It is not limited to a single construct like "DNA repair". DNA repair only does one thing - tries to rescue cells that have potential to mutate or die due to DNA damage.

DNA repair applied to skin is in in its infancy. The approaches used by EL (they bought a company with patents in the field) have merit in terms of the laboratory science -- i.e. being able to demonstrate in vitro that DNA repairs take place when you induce damage. There was even a clinical study where subjects had to drink H202 to get DNA damage so they could se eif the repair enzymes worked (the IRB must have been asleep, eh DragoN?). But there are problems (with lots of detail). Like the fact that these repairs take place intracellularly, in the cell nucleus no less, and it is notoriously hard to get enzymes through the skin, into cells, and to the nucleus. I have yet to see a stud that shows you can apply 8-oxoguanine DNA glucosylase, to skin and have it appear in the nucleus of cells.

Then there is the whole debate about whether trying to repair damaged DNA is a sound anti-aging strategy. This gets very complicated. Basically your body has a panoply of mechanisms in place to sort through damaged cells and kill off the ones it deems useless or dangerous (e.g. could lead to cancer). DNA repair sounds like a good way to prevent cancer, right? But it is not 100%. Sometimes you only halfway repair the DNA. A cell that otherwise would have been tagged for destruction (apoptosis) is now preserved. A potential cancer in the making? There is this delicate balance between age extension on the one hand, and cancer surveillance on the other.

And what about cell turnover. Skin rejuvenation means getting rid of old tired cells & matrix, and replacing it with fresh. Its what e.g. VitA does well. So, is trying to save old cells (given a DNA tune up) a good idea. It's like patching an old tire. It may keep running, but it could cause problems later.

Then there is this whole clock gene thing where they are actually doing what I think is a no-no ... fooling mother nature by inducing enzyme system only active during the day AT NIGHT. I don't care that they are "repair" oriented genes. There is a reason they are turned off at night. I don't know exactly what it is, but I trust the wisdom of nature.
They callit synchronization, I call it doing a double shift at a factory designed for day work only.

Having pointed out the mechanistic differences, I would also look to the claims. I( believe there are 4 or 5 for EL product, AnteAGE can claim 12. Ten if you are a purist.

Now, this is all theory. If you liked EL in the past, then you will probably like it now (its got a very nice texture - we could also talk about their approach to emulsions.

This answer is already too long. We need a new thread. How about DNA repair actives: the good, bad, and the ugly? And maybe another on clock genes. We can call it "Can your skin tell time? " Or maybe "How to make your skin cells work the night shift by unwinding their clocks".

DrJ, I am new to this forum but have been reading the posts about AnteAge and have ordered a sample. Yesterday I received a flyer in the mail for a product called Duplicell P199 which claims it is "The Most Advanced Formula Ever Released in the History of Skin Care". It says it diminishes the appearance of wrinkles by 56%, Increases collagen production by 84%, Decreases looseness of skin by 54% and in 5 days increases exfoliation by 84.7%. It claims to stimulate epidermal growth factors to start reproducing your own dormant stem cells and also uses protein peptides developed by Dr. Boris Petrikovsky, MD, PhD. I could not find a website address on the literature, just a phone number. This product only costs $49.95 (w/o shipping) for a one month supply whereas your product includes two items at a price of $280. Do you know anything about Duplicell P199 and if so, can you explain the differences between AnteAge and Duplicell P199 and why your product is a better choice?

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:19 am

DrJ wrote:

No, the work of AGI Dermatics (which was bought by EL) was good science. I believe Dr. Yarosh has now gone on to to other things.

He has left his position with Estee Lauder? I thought he was still Sr. VP of Science Research?

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:31 am

Debb3485 wrote:

DrJ wrote:

The superstar active in AnteAGE is a collection of chemicals called cytokines whose pattern is specifically tuned to deal with skin rejuvenation. There are multiple mechanisms involved. It is not limited to a single construct like "DNA repair". DNA repair only does one thing - tries to rescue cells that have potential to mutate or die due to DNA damage.

DrJ, I am new to this forum but have been reading the posts about AnteAge and have ordered a sample. Yesterday I received a flyer in the mail for a product called Duplicell P199 which claims it is "The Most Advanced Formula Ever Released in the History of Skin Care". It says it diminishes the appearance of wrinkles by 56%, Increases collagen production by 84%, Decreases looseness of skin by 54% and in 5 days increases exfoliation by 84.7%. It claims to stimulate epidermal growth factors to start reproducing your own dormant stem cells and also uses protein peptides developed by Dr. Boris Petrikovsky, MD, PhD. I could not find a website address on the literature, just a phone number. This product only costs $49.95 (w/o shipping) for a one month supply whereas your product includes two items at a price of $280. Do you know anything about Duplicell P199 and if so, can you explain the differences between AnteAge and Duplicell P199 and why your product is a better choice?

DrJ, One more question, P199 is also the peptide in Kate Somerville's CytoCell so I also question why Duplicell is so revolutionary since Cytocell has been on the market for a while now. Thanks for your comments.

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:53 am

How long does the sample last?

Thanks!

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:01 am

Keliu,
Are you referring to this:(2-nitrophenyl) ethyl pyridoxal isonicotinoyl hydrazone. It's not present in the above ingredients list. Nor is T4N5. T4N5 Liposome Lotion Compared With Placebo Lotion for Preventing Actinic Keratoses in Patients With Xeroderma Pigmentosum
Protection against ultraviolet A-induced oxidative damage in normal human epidermal keratinocytes under post-menopausal conditions by an ultraviolet A-activated caged-iron chelator: a pilot study.

ETHYLHEXYL METHOXYCINNAMATE , I was under the impression it was a night serum. Why is that present? Or is the ingredients list inaccurate?

Tripeptide 32 aka Chronolux® is made and sold by the very same ATPeptide crew. Toss in a peptide, call it whatever and hide the data. Matrixyl 3000 was shown to have insignificant difference when compared to Matrixyl. That particular study doesn't get the same air time though. Matrixyl vs Retinol. Apples and oranges and was not better was equal. They are nice together though. Much of the Remergent line is also based on Retinol.

It's a slightly inspired moisturizer. Bisabolol may be soothing for some, other than that, I wouldn't bother with it if you gave it to me.

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:17 am

RussianSunshine wrote:

How long does the sample last?

Thanks!

The AnteAGE samples are 2 ml each of the Serum and Accelerator. Should last 3-4 days.

Most products only give you 1 ml in a foil pack, which are messy once you open them. We supply in little 2ml screw top containers. You can even save the containers, put anything in them, and use them for travel. Fun!

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:05 am

Debb3485 wrote:

DrJ wrote:

The superstar active in AnteAGE is a collection of chemicals called cytokines whose pattern is specifically tuned to deal with skin rejuvenation. There are multiple mechanisms involved. It is not limited to a single construct like "DNA repair". DNA repair only does one thing - tries to rescue cells that have potential to mutate or die due to DNA damage.

DrJ, I am new to this forum but have been reading the posts about AnteAge and have ordered a sample. Yesterday I received a flyer in the mail for a product called Duplicell P199 which claims it is "The Most Advanced Formula Ever Released in the History of Skin Care". It says it diminishes the appearance of wrinkles by 56%, Increases collagen production by 84%, Decreases looseness of skin by 54% and in 5 days increases exfoliation by 84.7%. It claims to stimulate epidermal growth factors to start reproducing your own dormant stem cells and also uses protein peptides developed by Dr. Boris Petrikovsky, MD, PhD. I could not find a website address on the literature, just a phone number. This product only costs $49.95 (w/o shipping) for a one month supply whereas your product includes two items at a price of $280. Do you know anything about Duplicell P199 and if so, can you explain the differences between AnteAge and Duplicell P199 and why your product is a better choice?

DrJ, One more question, P199 is also the peptide in Kate Somerville's CytoCell so I also question why Duplicell is so revolutionary since Cytocell has been on the market for a while now. Thanks for your comments.

Hi Debb3485. Glad to have you with us.

Some cosmetic companies seem almost cynical in their approach to consumers. You are all so easy to fool, they think. Marketing generally triumphs over science in these enterprises.

Kate Somerville is one of those. Throw in a few moisturizers, then add a very small quantity of an active that everyone else has, but call it something else to make it sound special. Then charge far more than the ingredients are worth.

As Exhibit #1 consider Deep Tissue Repair
Cream with Peptide K-8. The bold claim on the web site says "Peptide K8™, a Kate Somerville exclusive, is designed to dramatically improve skin’s texture and tone.
Then read the actual ingredients, which by law have to be real. Way down near the bottom of the list is Palmitoyl Oligopeptide. That's a real peptide, the original Matrixyl (not 3000), and not expensive.

On to P-199, and the CytoCell product. Claim: "Peptide P-199 refreshes the skin’s healthy appearance." But on the label the only peptide is Polypeptide-72 which exists nowhere. It's not in any scientific literature. Not in the ingredients manufacturers listings. Further as a polypeptide with (by inference) 72 chains it is unlikely to be absorbed unless liposomized, of which there is no mention.

Actives in "marketing" quantities, or total figments of a fertile imagination. Either way, they score high on my list of companies that get under my skin, not on my skin.

Boris Petrikovsky MD PhD is an OB/GYN in new York. If you google him along with P-199 all that show up in the search list is scam sites, and russian web sites. The kind you want to make sure your antivirus filters are on when you visit.

Appaently he "advises" a company he also owns (ABG labs) in NY, and has come up with something he calls a "wharton's jelly" peptide that he uses in mesotherapy (injections) and calls meso-wharton P-199. If you then Google meso-wharton P-199 you will get a search results list full of mostly Russian web sites (Cyrillic).

This reminds me a lot of the Amatokin story... Secret peptide THAT STIMULATES YOUR OWN STEM CELLS (bunk) from hidden labaoratory in former USSR surrounded by barbed wire fence (a prison maybe full of bunco artists?).

Here is one translated into English. You can tell its a translation because the sentences are not in usual English word order. Like

Meso-Wharton P199™ intended for intense repair and rejuvenation of the face after 35-40 years by direct action on the proliferative properties of tissue-specific stem cells localized in the skin. Can you hear the Russian accent when you read this? Very awkward wording.

There is even research on the site. Problem is, the results don;t quite add up to what they say they do. I'll summarize briefly. They add their magic ingredient to some human cell cultures and then measure cytokines. These are interleukin cytokines and a few growth factors. I have written elsewhere about how you can take many things and add them to cell cultures and see increased mitogenesis (stimulation of cell division). Including a lot of toxins. The interleukins are the clue that this is a stress response, not a healing response. There are a few other equally unhelpful experiments. I would conclude that Dr. P is a neonatologist, not a cell biologist.

I'll let others comment on the differences between all this and the AnteAGE story.

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:19 am

DrJ wrote:

Boris Petrikovsky MD PhD is an OB/GYN in new York. Same guy with the skin care stuff?
But if you google him along with P-199 all that show up in the search list is scam sites, and dubious sites. The kind you want to make sure your antivirus filters are on when you visit. I'll look into some other sources and let you know.

Looks like the same guy. But this stuff is "intradermal microinjections".

http://mesowharton.com/

A short article here from 2008 (that doesn't say much):

http://www.cosmeticsdesign.com/Formulation-Science/Stem-cell-technology-is-the-new-age-of-anti-aging-skincare-say-top-scientists-at-HBA

A repeat of the info here (catchy article title):

http://www.plasticsurgerypractice.com/blog/post/2009/12/30/Antiaging-Market-Growth-and-Self-Aggrandizing-Hype.aspx

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:52 am

DrJ wrote:

OK, so you want a pure cytokines DIY product.

Hmm, so it sounds like you will make this available to "select" suppliers? If you do this, what then will make your product standout and be "special" amongst all the other stuff out there?

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:00 pm

DragoN wrote:

For Jom.
Nicotinamide increases biosynthesis of ceramides as well as other stratum corneum lipids to improve the epidermal permeability barrier.
Tanno O, Ota Y, Kitamura N, Katsube T, Inoue S.
Source

Thanks DragoN

Just for clarification purposes, Nicotinamide is the same as niacinamide? Yes?

free skin care · Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:06 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Dr. J, if you do change formulas, I hope you will consider keeping the original you have come up with, as well. I am not interested in EO's in a product due to my sensitivity and I would hate for the accelerator to be changed in any way!

It wasn't a change in formula I was requesting, I think he should keep the accelerator as it is too. It was a new product with the BM-MSC but without retinol. I'm just kind of teasing him about it.

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