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Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:08 pm  |
| Thank you Jom....very much appreciated. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:44 pm |
DrJ is posting prolifically at the Skincare Board so it would be useful if he was still involved here as well.
He posted this recently in response to the best way to avoid skin laxity:
Clearly, he believes that adipose-derived cytokines are pro-aging. Now I realise that people don't want to have rival products discussed on one thread. But if it is the manufacture of one of the competing products disputing the credentials of the other, then it becomes relevant.
I can see that factions are being formed here - and this isn't helpful to anyone trying to find real answers. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:33 pm |
After reading the succinct 'stem-cell skin product' overview, it really hit me how really medical this whole stem cell issue really was. (Duh..thump on the head)... and the DRUG claims that were being made by MANY stem cell skin product manufacturers... for example recent post, "renovate cells, formulates capillaries, etc"
Doesn't the FDA have to give approval before ANY stem cell product can be marketed to the public? 'What say' the Required Regulators on this DRUG stuff we put on our faces?
So, all these products are FDA approved?
Beats me.
So I went over to, natch, http://www.fda.gov and typed in the search box <cosmetics with stem cells> and there was a plethora of reading on Consumer Alerts on stem cells.
I, personally, like the Anteage formulations for myself; I'm happy to read that others like another formulation (on another thread)
But to tell you the truth, when I put on either Anteage product, I no longer dwell on "La-dee-dee, I'm putting cytokines from stem cells in my body", but am just content with the basic 'other' included ingredients. (e.g. I like carnosine)
Maybe I'm just blind to the long-term potential stem cell risk anyway.
Just as anyone, I just like what I like.
Sorry, just wanted to share. |
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:36 pm |
| fitgineer wrote: |
| Elvisshops wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
For anyone who is on the fence about trying AnteAGE this might help you make the jump over.
$100 Cellese AnteAGE Coupon
Code: 34x92
Limited Time: Good through July 5, 2012
For orders over $279 (serum + accel. or 2 serums)
Limit 1 per customer
Free shipping in the US still applies
I'm still using it and loving it! |
I am planning to order a second bottle of the serum. I don't care as much for the lotion, but that's just a personal thing about lotion in general, not this specific lotion. I just don't like the "feel" of lotions on my face.
I've been using the lotion I got in my original purchase on my hands and neck. With that coupon, I might consider getting it to continue the hand-neck thing.
I e-mailed CS yesterday (Saturday night) to make sure the products would be ok with the heat. I'm sure that the products would experience temps over 100 F before they landed on my doorstep.
Thanks for the coupon info. |
Please give us an update on CS reply about the temperature during shipping. Thank you! |
Will do. |
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:42 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| Thank you Jom....very much appreciated. |
Ditto. Thank you, jom. I appreciate you trying to get an answer for us! |
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:57 pm |
| Just wanted to mention that I have the unwelcome side-effect - increased facial hair. |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:08 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
| Just wanted to mention that I have the unwelcome side-effect - increased facial hair. |
Noooooooo! 
Like on the sides of your face? Upper lip? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:53 am |
I find it very strange that no info is given on the cytokines in Cellese, even after several people have asked for the info.
This is sort of like putting something on your face that does not have an ingredient list. Where is de science behind that? How can anyone know what is in this mix? "Getting ready for publication" - but an ingredient list is not scientific publication, but simple user information.
When it comes to things like stem cells and cytokines, people know so little about it that anything can and will be believed. The Internet is only a research tool if you know what exactly you are looking for, and have the background knowledge to read and asess what you find.
It is very easy to call the ingredients in other stem cell derived products 'inflammatory' and leave it at that.
The whole up- and downregulating mechanisms in skin and other tissues are complex matters, where the presence of a substance does not always generate the same effects - as was stated before it's the COMBINATION that matters. Some cytokines work as inflammatories in one context, and as anti-inflammatories in another context.
That said, all we have to go by is the experience of users. So far I have not seen anything that can justify the bashing that takes place all the time. If you have to sell your product by putting down others, even if you refuse to say what is in your product, in my book that's a signal something is not quite right |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:35 am |
Bethany,
all over the face - it is not yet humongous, but noticeable. |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:06 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
| Just wanted to mention that I have the unwelcome side-effect - increased facial hair. |
What the heck has caused that?
Did I miss something...
that it's a known side effect?? I've been using Anteage for past 2 (something or other months) and haven't experienced this and didn't know to even BE ON THE LOOK-OUT for it.
I'd CALL the company pronto for explanation(s).
(forgot you may not be in the U.S.)
The emperor may not be wearing clothes at eds forum lately but that side effect needs a response. |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:12 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
Bethany,
all over the face - it is not yet humongous, but noticeable. |
Very interesting, sigma. This is exactly what happened to me with the GHK serum and the reason I stopped using CP's. |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:41 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
Bethany,
all over the face - it is not yet humongous, but noticeable. |
That is a bummer. I am definitely limiting usage to post rolling only. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:42 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
| Just wanted to mention that I have the unwelcome side-effect - increased facial hair. |
If I recall correctly Sigma, you have pre-existing issues with excess facial hair. I seem to remember some posts about electrolysis for the condition as well as other treatments? If so, then unwanted facial hair growth may only apply in your particular case, or it may be due to something else that is totally unrelated to using Cellese product(s). My apologies if my memory is faulty. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:36 pm |
Lacy,
you are mostly correct.
I had and still have to a lesser degree a problem with facial hair, and thus am very sensitive to anything that exacerbates it.
The only thing that changed was addition of these products, so the only explanation is that there is a correlation. In the past I had a similar problem with Copper Peptides and had to stop using them.
Also, my mom, who does not have a facial hair issue, noticed the same thing.
HTH |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:22 pm |
I was curious about the hair growth issue and whether it had been observed in the clinical trials or any of the anecdotal reports so I asked Dr. J about it, here is his response:
In 2 clinical trials, over 70 subjects it was never observed. And in the past several months in the marketplace, with thousands of users, this is the only time we have heard of it. We've heard the opposite in some cases.
The subject of facial hair is a complex one, but the cause of unwanted or excess facial hair in women is overwhelmingly related to hormonal balances. The ratio of androgens to estrogens. If androgens go up, or estrogens go down, it favors lengthening or thickening of facial hair. Some women live in a precarious balance between the two.
Now, in the AnteAGE Accelerator there is an ingredient named soy isoflavones. This is well known to help the balance (locally, not systemically) and actually reduces facial hair growth. In fact, we have heard from at least a dozen women that their facial hair has decreased with AnteAGE. We generally attribute it to that ingredient.
Now, we have been studying hair follicle stimulation with stem cell extracts, indeed trying to find a way to turn on the stem cells that live in the bulge region of the hair follicle. Turns out it is very hard to do. We cannot stimulate them with the cytokines in AnteAGE. Others are involved.
In theory one could argue that there is some relationship between skin regeneration and hair growth, whatever the cause of the growth. The skin (keratinocyte) cells themselves may be putting out signals, as they proliferate, that affect the hair follicles and wake them up (if their hormonal environment is at that "tipping point"). It wouldn't matter if the regeneration was from Vit. A or cytokines or anything else. That makes a tough choice for those individuals who might be prone to hair stimulation, because not matter what they do to improve skin ... if effective, some increased hair comes with it. |
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:14 pm |
Hi- just wanted to update on my "experiment". I did stop using the AA serum for 4 days and saw no real difference (negative) in skin texture/lines. I did see a little increase one morning in under eye bags but I think that had to do with going to parties and drinking alcohol two nights in a row.
It happened on the 3rd morning but was gone later that day and didn't come back on the 4th morning.
All I used during this time was a couple of acne products and CeraVe pm. So for that short period of time my results did seem to "stick". It is certainly not scientific just something I wanted to try.
I have started my laser treatment on my face so I don't want to continue my updates on progress because I don't think I can tell what is doing what. I will say I do like the product and I do see results so I will continue with it for now. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:51 pm |
| jom wrote: |
For anyone who is on the fence about trying AnteAGE this might help you make the jump over.
$100 Cellese AnteAGE Coupon
Code: 34x92
Limited Time: Good through July 5, 2012
For orders over $279 (serum + accel. or 2 serums)
Limit 1 per customer
Free shipping in the US still applies
I'm still using it and loving it! |
Thanks Jom! I'm still loving it too, don't want to be without it.
Should extra bottles be stored in the fridge? |
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 am |
| this stuff is expensive. what effect do those cyto things actually have? are they like retinoids or an antioxidant? I am kind of relieved they dont ship to me Ha Ha. My DH would kill me!! |
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Nuttyemma on skincare.boards.net |
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:39 am |
| jom wrote: |
I was curious about the hair growth issue and whether it had been observed in the clinical trials or any of the anecdotal reports so I asked Dr. J about it, here is his response:
In 2 clinical trials, over 70 subjects it was never observed. And in the past several months in the marketplace, with thousands of users, this is the only time we have heard of it. We've heard the opposite in some cases.
The subject of facial hair is a complex one, but the cause of unwanted or excess facial hair in women is overwhelmingly related to hormonal balances. The ratio of androgens to estrogens. If androgens go up, or estrogens go down, it favors lengthening or thickening of facial hair. Some women live in a precarious balance between the two.
Now, in the AnteAGE Accelerator there is an ingredient named soy isoflavones. This is well known to help the balance (locally, not systemically) and actually reduces facial hair growth. In fact, we have heard from at least a dozen women that their facial hair has decreased with AnteAGE. We generally attribute it to that ingredient.
Now, we have been studying hair follicle stimulation with stem cell extracts, indeed trying to find a way to turn on the stem cells that live in the bulge region of the hair follicle. Turns out it is very hard to do. We cannot stimulate them with the cytokines in AnteAGE. Others are involved.
In theory one could argue that there is some relationship between skin regeneration and hair growth, whatever the cause of the growth. The skin (keratinocyte) cells themselves may be putting out signals, as they proliferate, that affect the hair follicles and wake them up (if their hormonal environment is at that "tipping point"). It wouldn't matter if the regeneration was from Vit. A or cytokines or anything else. That makes a tough choice for those individuals who might be prone to hair stimulation, because not matter what they do to improve skin ... if effective, some increased hair comes with it. |
I will probably be shot for bringing Reluma into the discussion again - but I can't help myself.
If cytokins have no effect on hair growth - why are they included in Reluma's Hair Complex and Eyelash Serum?
| Quote: |
A treatment to encourage hair growth and reduce shedding.
ReLuma's Original Hair Complex does not contain Minoxidil
Thinning hair is caused by the hormone DHT and the decline of cytokine TGF-beta. ReLuma is based on a human growth factor complex that includes cytokines that signal the hair follicles to grow hair.
Ingredients: Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Cellulose Gum, Lactic Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Polysorbate-20, Water
http://www.truthinaging.com/reluma-original-hair-complex |
If the reason is because Reluma contains a different set of cytokines, then I suppose it's all the more reason to find out which cytokines are being used for what. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:15 am |
| brierrose wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
For anyone who is on the fence about trying AnteAGE this might help you make the jump over.
$100 Cellese AnteAGE Coupon
Code: 34x92
Limited Time: Good through July 5, 2012
For orders over $279 (serum + accel. or 2 serums)
Limit 1 per customer
Free shipping in the US still applies
I'm still using it and loving it! |
Thanks Jom! I'm still loving it too, don't want to be without it.
Should extra bottles be stored in the fridge? |
I suppose you could store extras in the fridge if you live in a hot climate or are experiencing the 100+ degree weather. Otherwise I think room temperature is fine. |
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:18 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
If cytokins have no effect on hair growth - why are they included in Reluma's Hair Complex and Eyelash Serum?
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There must be some other ingredient mixed with the cytokines in the eyelash serum that cause the hair growth. Otherwise just the regular Reluma serum would cause hair growth as well and I don't think they want that to happen. |
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:53 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| Otherwise just the regular Reluma serum would cause hair growth as well and I don't think they want that to happen. |
Well, not actual facial hair growth, but someone did say just the Reluma serum was causing lash growth. So, why would it grow lashes and not hair on the face? |
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Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:20 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| Otherwise just the regular Reluma serum would cause hair growth as well and I don't think they want that to happen. |
Well, not actual facial hair growth, but someone did say just the Reluma serum was causing lash growth. So, why would it grow lashes and not hair on the face? |
Sorry, my memory must have failed me again. Tiny informed me there was no lash growth with the Reluma serum. My apologies for my faulty memory! |
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:57 am |
Apparently, DragonN also experienced facial hair growth from using AnteAGE and claims she brought up the matter with DrJ even before she tried it.
| Quote: |
Sigma,
I experienced same. Thought it was my imagination. Like yourself, I have a problem in that regards to begin with. I did not notice same with CP's or CuGHK though.
Despite that, when I stopped using, the problem also receded with. Won't stop me from using with PCIT though. In that regards it is a keeper.
I recall razzing DrJ about this before even using the serum, that IF he had anything viable in there, this could be a potential problem. As it is not only myself experiencing this, something remains viable and is working on the pluripotent stem cells of the hair follicle.
Read more: http://www.skincare.boards.net/index.cgi?board=productreviews&action=display&thread=28&page=2#ixzz1zGk5P8MM |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:41 am |
Maybe they can make a mens only version and make millions!! I know my dh could use some.
what is the mechanism that makes hair grow more rapidly!? i have some hair thinning and Im interested in this more now. |
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Nuttyemma on skincare.boards.net |
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