Review: Cellese AnteAGE Serum & Accelerator
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free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:41 pm

Well maybe she could give some to Camilla( Bad Grin

)

Seriously if that is true, it would make a massive difference for people with COPD, what about chronic Asthma? Or would it not be sucessful with autoimmune diseases?

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:46 pm

karenlee wrote:

So will we get the samples in UK then?

I'm very pleased to hear about the postage to UK. Will you be able to set up UK based distribution? The customs charges are a killer - and they add an annoying £8 'handling fee' on top the customs - as if they have done us a favour by stopping our items and charging us more!!

Yes to samples. We have a new samples program, with containers that will last at least a week at full dose. Also in airless pumps to maintain product freshness and proper dosing. Limited supply, starting in a day or two.

We are thinking of doing a customs rebate program where we end up paying the fees (not final yet, so no promise), and we are looking to add a UK-based operation in the not-too-distant future. We are also popular in Italy for some reason. Anybody want to move to Milan to open an office there?

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:55 pm

10Sylvia5 wrote:

Well maybe she could give some to Camilla( Bad Grin

)

Ooh, ouch, zing, but yeah, maybe that would be an act of kindness. And BPC could sure use some cheering up.

10Sylvia5 wrote:

Seriously if that is true, it would make a massive difference for people with COPD, what about chronic Asthma? Or would it not be sucessful with autoimmune diseases?

Of course we are now talking systemic or by inhalation, not applied topically, but yes, the root of all inflammation when you trace it back is cytokine mediated. Another recent:

Pulm Pharmacol Ther. 2012 Jul 6.

Emerging Mediators of Airway Smooth Muscle Dysfunction in Asthma.

Phenotypic changes in airway smooth muscle are integral to the pathophysiological changes that constitute asthma - namely inflammation, airway wall remodeling and bronchial hyperresponsiveness. In vitro and in vivo studies have shown that the proliferative, secretory and contractile functions of airway smooth muscle are dysfunctional in asthma. These functions can be modulated by various mediators whose levels are altered in asthma, derived from inflammatory cells or produced by airway smooth muscle itself. In this review, we describe the emerging roles of the CXC chemokines (GROs, IP-10), Th17-derived cytokines (IL-17, IL-22) and semaphorins, as well as the influence of viral infection on airway smooth muscle function, with a view to identifying new opportunities for therapeutic intervention in asthma.

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:02 pm

DrJ wrote:

We are also popular in Italy for some reason. Anybody want to move to Milan to open an office there?

I once read somewhere were Rome was one of the leading cities in the world per capita for plastic surgery. If this is true I'm sure they are into skincare as well.

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:04 pm

that could be life changing. Just think of all the applications, soo many diseases are inflammatory, and often that can lead to cancer.

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:06 pm

just remembered the old definition for cancer "chronic irritation"

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:44 pm

10Sylvia5 wrote:

just remembered the old definition for cancer "chronic irritation"

I did a recent post at BFT that documented the relationship between cancer and inflammatory cytokines, with special attention to skin.

http://barefacedtruth.com/2012/07/04/cytokine-stem-cell-%E2%80%9Ctissue-of-origin%E2%80%9D-issues-part-4-an-inflammatory-view/

Scroll down to subheading "Inflammation and Tumors"

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:16 pm

thanks I shall have a look

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:39 pm

thanks for that it was fascinating.

Question if adipose derived stem cells can promote
gastric disease ,migration etc and if it is related to breast cancer in some way, is it possible that that in some who may have a genetic predisposition to those diseases could have that genetic predisposition switched on by using them?

Sorry that sounds convoluted Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:09 pm

10Sylvia5 wrote:

thanks for that it was fascinating.

Question if adipose derived stem cells can promote
gastric disease ,migration etc and if it is related to breast cancer in some way, is it possible that that in some who may have a genetic predisposition to those diseases could have that genetic predisposition switched on by using them?

Sorry that sounds convoluted Rolling Eyes

Not at all convoluted. In medicine we call it diathesis. A diathesis–stress model says that a genetic vulnerability or predisposition (diathesis) interacts with the environment (stressors) to trigger diseases.

Breast cancer is a good example. There are varying degrees of genetic susceptibibility, and there are environmental stressors that switch them on. Fat is a big "turn on" for breast cancer genes, and it one of those things is mediated by cytokines (paracrines, adipokines) from breast-resident adipocytes (fat cells) as well as systemically (leptin is a cytokine).

Here is one of the papers we cite in that BFT series (wish we could show you the full text, it's really interesting). Lots of others in the same vein. This is why we are tending to tell people to be cautious about applying cytokines dermally - you want to make sure they are the right ones, not a bunch of inflammatory cytokines & adipokines. Some women apply their anti-aging products to their décolletage - which encompasses a fair amount of breast tissue.

Nat Clin Pract Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Apr;3(4):345-54.

Mechanisms of disease: adipokines and breast cancer - endocrine and paracrine mechanisms that connect adiposity and breast cancer.

A vast number of epidemiological studies suggest an important, but still controversial, role for obesity and adipose tissue mass in breast cancer risk and an association with tumor phenotype. The main conclusions from these studies raise the possibility that the adipose tissue can act as an effector organ that influences both cancer risk and tumor behavior. Here we also review heterotypic mechanisms in breast-cancer tumorigenesis; these mechanisms involve soluble secreted factors from peritumoral cells, extracellular-matrix components and interactions between stromal cells and tumor cells that create a specific and local peritumoral microenvironment. As a special focus, we discuss the increasing evidence for a role of peritumoral adipose tissue and secreted adipokines (such as adiponectin and leptin) in breast cancer; furthermore, the cellular and molecular basis of the peritumoral 'desmoplastic' tissue reaction observed in breast cancer is reviewed in detail.

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:30 pm

That makes sense, so many drugs are transdermal now so why shouldnt these be absorbed to some extent sytemically.

And if you are suseptible then it isnt worth the risk just slapping it on everywhere.
Ok lesson learned

Exclamation

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:45 pm

10Sylvia5 wrote:

That makes sense, so many drugs are transdermal now so why shouldnt these be absorbed to some extent sytemically.

And if you are suseptible then it isnt worth the risk just slapping it on everywhere.
Ok lesson learned

Exclamation

But how is the ordinary punter supposed to learn the lesson? Not everyone reads these types of boards and absorbs this type of information. This is serious stuff - if I'm reading this correctly, it is being implied that some stem cell concoctions (those which use adipose stem cells) might cause breast cancer if you happen to be susceptible to it.

DrJ - could you please (again) clarify your position on EGF. I notice that Dr. Setterfield's Medic8 Serum containing EGF is recommended for use after rolling.

free skin care · Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:47 pm

Dr. J...glad to see you back here! Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:55 am

DrJ wrote:

[
Ask and you shall receive. I believe we begin selling in the UK (and a lot of other countries worldwide) today or tomorrow. We have an EU website coming online, as well as Latin America.

Oh, and PayPal is up and running.

Hurray! That should make things so much easier.

I've been using my Ante Age twice daily for a few weeks now. Can't say that I've noticed any actual anti-aging yet, but I'm very impressed by how clear it's making my complexion. I also get occasional (probably hormonal) spots and they're healing considerably faster than before I started using AA.

This is a similar effect to the one I achieved with my beloved and sadly demised Remergent DNA Repair.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:20 am

karenlee wrote:

So will we get the samples in UK then?

I'm very pleased to hear about the postage to UK. Will you be able to set up UK based distribution? The customs charges are a killer - and they add an annoying £8 'handling fee' on top the customs - as if they have done us a favour by stopping our items and charging us more!!

Whilst I am loathe to defend Customs or the UK government the 'handling fee' is actually courtesy of Royal Mail not HMRC.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:27 am

DrJ wrote:

Yes to samples. We have a new samples program, with containers that will last at least a week at full dose. Also in airless pumps to maintain product freshness and proper dosing. Limited supply, starting in a day or two.

Now this I would go for! Can't risk hundreds of quid on a full size product with my sensitive skin.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:41 am

Keliu wrote:

10Sylvia5 wrote:

That makes sense, so many drugs are transdermal now so why shouldnt these be absorbed to some extent sytemically.

And if you are suseptible then it isnt worth the risk just slapping it on everywhere.
Ok lesson learned

Exclamation

But how is the ordinary punter supposed to learn the lesson? Not everyone reads these types of boards and absorbs this type of information. This is serious stuff - if I'm reading this correctly, it is being implied that some stem cell concoctions (those which use adipose stem cells) might cause breast cancer if you happen to be susceptible to it.

DrJ - could you please (again) clarify your position on EGF. I notice that Dr. Setterfield's Medic8 Serum containing EGF is recommended for use after rolling.

The only info I could find on Medic8 serum suggests it contains a variety of growth factors. Although the info is fuzzy. I have no issues with a collection of growth factors, just single ones, because they can causes an unbalanced type of growth. You don't want to just pile new skin cells on top of old. End up with funky architecture. I think of it as the difference between generation and regeneration.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:02 am

Keliu wrote:

This is serious stuff - if I'm reading this correctly, it is being implied that some stem cell concoctions (those which use adipose stem cells) might cause breast cancer if you happen to be susceptible to it.

You are taking it further than I did in my BFT review. Here is what I said: First I quoted some well respected scientists at the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute ...“The secretome profile of ASC resembled that reported for MSC, but included adipose-associated adipsin and the hormone leptin, shown to promote breast cancer growth”. Then I commented: "These studies are not in any way definitive, and do not mean that you should stop using any product derived from AD-MSC’s. We bring them to your attention as illustrative of one of the basic principles we want to drive home: that chronic inflammation has many consequences." (this is the theme of the piece).

All we are saying is be educated about these things. There is lots of room for debate,to be sure. And as with everything in life, there are always reasons to be cautious and wise.

Sounds pretty middle of the road, especially for me, right? In fact, I think for now I will defer to my plastic surgeon colleagues on this issue. Here is the delightful Dr Bates, a plastic surgeon and quilter, opining on the topic:

http://rlbatesmd.blogspot.com/2010/11/risks-of-fat-grafting-in-breast-cancer.html

Although she is talking about fat grafting surgery, which is very different than cytokine cocktails, she makes a good point about active vs. resting tumor cells.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:54 am

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

If you have a predilection for cancer, or even have one you don't know about, therre is a theoretical risk of adding pure growth factors, like EGF. But a balanced arrays of cytokines should actually be somewhat protective, as c=some of them are actually immune vigilent.

DrJ wrote:

tinali0202 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

should be safe and most of them use the apple stem cell. i got one product from eleusian...australian local brand ..they have one stem cell serum ..i used 3 bottles alreday...works on me ....

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions.

Since RL uses a mix, I can only assume from Dr. J's own statement it is safe.

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

cross posting this on both threads

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:11 am

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

If you have a predilection for cancer, or even have one you don't know about, therre is a theoretical risk of adding pure growth factors, like EGF. But a balanced arrays of cytokines should actually be somewhat protective, as c=some of them are actually immune vigilent.

DrJ wrote:

tinali0202 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

should be safe and most of them use the apple stem cell. i got one product from eleusian...australian local brand ..they have one stem cell serum ..i used 3 bottles alreday...works on me ....

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions.

Since RL uses a mix, I can only assume from Dr. J's own statement it is safe.

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

There is a misunderstanding of something I said. Here is the quote:

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions

This compares cytokines harvested in culture (ex vivo) to injections or implants of whole cells (in vivo). They are vastly different. What I was saying is that the risks associated with cell therapies (immune rejection, etc), are not a concern with dermal application of cytokines but no cells. Not to say there are no risks, just not those risks. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions is the key to understanding.

I'm here to talk about the underlying science of stem cytokines, only for those interested, and about AnteAGE if questions arise, not other products in the category. And I'm staying in the designated thread. I'm sure people from other companies are quite capable of doing the same for their products, and their users, and sharing their view of where the published science leads.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:22 am

DrJ wrote:

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

If you have a predilection for cancer, or even have one you don't know about, therre is a theoretical risk of adding pure growth factors, like EGF. But a balanced arrays of cytokines should actually be somewhat protective, as c=some of them are actually immune vigilent.

DrJ wrote:

tinali0202 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

should be safe and most of them use the apple stem cell. i got one product from eleusian...australian local brand ..they have one stem cell serum ..i used 3 bottles alreday...works on me ....

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions.

Since RL uses a mix, I can only assume from Dr. J's own statement it is safe.

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

There is a misunderstanding of something I said. Here is the quote:

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions

This compares cytokines harvested in culture (ex vivo) to injections or implants of whole cells (in vivo). They are vastly different. What I was saying is that the risks associated with cell therapies (immune rejection, etc), are not a concern with dermal application of cytokines but no cells. Not to say there are no risks, just not those risks. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions is the key to understanding.

I'm here to talk about the underlying science of stem cytokines, only for those interested, and about AnteAGE if questions arise, not other products in the category. And I'm staying in the designated thread. I'm sure people from other companies are quite capable of doing the same for their products, and their users, and sharing their view of where the published science leads.

Dr. J,

with all due respect, you have clearly stated and inferred Re Luma can cause cancer, not only on this thread, but on your blog, you cut and pasted their own web site chart information all over, so clearly your referring to RL. I have every right to address these claims on the thread they were made on.

You also in the quote above clearly state cytokines can NOT cause cancer. I am not hyjacking your thread, I am addressing an awful scare issue you yourself have brought up.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:42 am

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

If you have a predilection for cancer, or even have one you don't know about, therre is a theoretical risk of adding pure growth factors, like EGF. But a balanced arrays of cytokines should actually be somewhat protective, as c=some of them are actually immune vigilent.

DrJ wrote:

tinali0202 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

should be safe and most of them use the apple stem cell. i got one product from eleusian...australian local brand ..they have one stem cell serum ..i used 3 bottles alreday...works on me ....

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions.

Since RL uses a mix, I can only assume from Dr. J's own statement it is safe.

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

There is a misunderstanding of something I said. Here is the quote:

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions

This compares cytokines harvested in culture (ex vivo) to injections or implants of whole cells (in vivo). They are vastly different. What I was saying is that the risks associated with cell therapies (immune rejection, etc), are not a concern with dermal application of cytokines but no cells. Not to say there are no risks, just not those risks. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions is the key to understanding.

I'm here to talk about the underlying science of stem cytokines, only for those interested, and about AnteAGE if questions arise, not other products in the category. And I'm staying in the designated thread. I'm sure people from other companies are quite capable of doing the same for their products, and their users, and sharing their view of where the published science leads.

Dr. J,

with all due respect, you have clearly stated and inferred Re Luma can cause cancer, not only on this thread, but on your blog, you cut and pasted their own web site chart information all over, so clearly your referring to RL. I have every right to address these claims on the thread they were made on.

You also in the quote above clearly state cytokines can NOT cause cancer. I am not hyjacking your thread, I am addressing an awful scare issue you yourself have brought up.

With all due respect Tiny, I never said any such thing. What I wrote was that other scientists and clinicians had published warnings about particular secretomes. When it came to making bold statements like the one out of Philadelphia, I actually offered readers plenty of wiggle room by saying "the evidence is not definitive". That puts me clearly on the fence, if you know what definitive means. How does that add up to "awful scare". I even corrected Keliu when she wrote about it ...I said "You are taking it further than I did in my BFT review."

The series was about inflammation and cytokines. I wrote as part of that about the link between inflammation and cancer. I need to tell you, that is hardly controversial at this point in time. I think your issues are with other authors, not me. The only thing I inferred is that inflammation and it's opposite is a key to understanding how cytokines work. I only used anonymous examples, never mentioned a company, not even my own. I built the case slowly, over 5 posts, thousands of words. Numerous references. If you want to refute this, please show me from the literature where I went wrong.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:53 am

DrJ wrote:

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

Tiny wrote:

DrJ wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

If you have a predilection for cancer, or even have one you don't know about, therre is a theoretical risk of adding pure growth factors, like EGF. But a balanced arrays of cytokines should actually be somewhat protective, as c=some of them are actually immune vigilent.

DrJ wrote:

tinali0202 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

Interesting article for anyone interested in stem cells. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17012688

My one concern on topical stem cell products is safety, and this remark from the article scares me. Stem cells, which can transform into any other type of specialised cell. This brings me back to my question at the beginning of this thread, if a person has the genetic predisposition for cancer, what happens when they apply a stem cell product.

should be safe and most of them use the apple stem cell. i got one product from eleusian...australian local brand ..they have one stem cell serum ..i used 3 bottles alreday...works on me ....

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions.

Since RL uses a mix, I can only assume from Dr. J's own statement it is safe.

Over the years ReLuma has been improving the technology behind the conditioned media. The current Reluma formulation is based on a blend of Invitrx's three cell technologies: a new stem cell technology ,iPS (Induced Pluripotent Stem Cell). Alongside iPS, they mix Adipose derived stem cell and, thirdly, the Dermal Fibroblast Conditioned Media that was the original formula.

There is a misunderstanding of something I said. Here is the quote:

Remember what we discussed earlier. Human stem cells are grown in culture, and the cytokines (healing biochemicals) are harvested. That is what goes into the topical product, not cells. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions

This compares cytokines harvested in culture (ex vivo) to injections or implants of whole cells (in vivo). They are vastly different. What I was saying is that the risks associated with cell therapies (immune rejection, etc), are not a concern with dermal application of cytokines but no cells. Not to say there are no risks, just not those risks. There is no risk as with cell implants or infusions is the key to understanding.

I'm here to talk about the underlying science of stem cytokines, only for those interested, and about AnteAGE if questions arise, not other products in the category. And I'm staying in the designated thread. I'm sure people from other companies are quite capable of doing the same for their products, and their users, and sharing their view of where the published science leads.

Dr. J,

with all due respect, you have clearly stated and inferred Re Luma can cause cancer, not only on this thread, but on your blog, you cut and pasted their own web site chart information all over, so clearly your referring to RL. I have every right to address these claims on the thread they were made on.

You also in the quote above clearly state cytokines can NOT cause cancer. I am not hyjacking your thread, I am addressing an awful scare issue you yourself have brought up.

With all due respect Tiny, I never said any such thing. What I wrote was that other scientists and clinicians had published warnings about particular secretomes. When it came to making bold statements like the one out of Philadelphia, I actually offered readers plenty of wiggle room by saying "the evidence is not definitive". That puts me clearly on the fence, if you know what definitive means. Then I wrote in more detail about the link between inflammation and cancer. I need to tell you, that is hardly controversial at this point in time. I think your issues are with other authors, not me.

Again with all due respect,

I like many did NOT want to be putting anything DANGEROUS on my decollete, I must have miss read your cancer concern on that issue earlier.

So I am very relieved to know we have now cleared that big scare up.

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:55 am

With all that scare about cytokines that can be bad for you, cause chronic inflammation etc. isn't it time to divulge which cytokines are in Cellese products?

free skin care · Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:09 am

Lotusesther wrote:

With all that scare about cytokines that can be bad for you, cause chronic inflammation etc. isn't it time to divulge which cytokines are in Cellese products?

In due time. meanwhile, some hints:
http://barefacedtruth.com/2012/07/06/%E2%80%9Ccytokine-facts%E2%80%9D-and-some-actual-products-part-5-of-a-series/

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