Review: Cellese AnteAGE Serum & Accelerator
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Products Reviews Forum

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:16 pm

Keliu wrote:

DrJ wrote:

I don't share your view that the research is going on in the cosmetic realm. I see the opposite - cosmetic products on the market with very little or zero research evident, questionable formulations defying science logic, and no clinical trials. Why spend on research when you can spend on marketing? (I think some in the skin care marketplace have a low view of the intelligence of the buying public, and seem to think that science will just confuse them.)

I'm not saying that research is only going on in the cosmetic realm - I am well aware of all the medical research taking place and the promise it holds for all fields of medicine. But I agree that cosmetic products are reaching the market place with "very little or zero research evident". This is my point: why haven't OTC wound preparations appeared if this technology is so viable? Why is it only appearing in unregulated cosmetics?

Won't be for long ...
Here is Dr.Zemlo opining on research trends (my bold):

Cytokines and growth factors are small, multifunctional proteins that play critical roles in controlling development and in regulating the body’s responses to disease and infection. Among the clinical applications for cytokine and growth factor research are cancer immunotherapy, wound healing, allergy relief, animal health, treatment of autoimmune disorders, anti-viral therapy, obesity, and disease diagnosis. “With all of these potential benefits, it is not surprising that pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies are spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors,” observes Dr. Tamara Zemlo, Director of Scientific and Medical Communications for The Science Advisory Board.

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:27 pm

DrJ wrote:

... But while topically applied cytokines can penetrate (with help), they are not well absorbed. Only tiny quantities IF ANY *...

* my caps

Er-r-r...I'm confused. What's the point then (of applying them topically) ?

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:29 pm

DrJ wrote:

"With all of these potential benefits, it is not surprising that pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies are spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors," observes Dr. Tamara Zemlo, Director of Scientific and Medical Communications for The Science Advisory Board.

But I thought that you and your company had already achieved this.

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:00 pm

So how is everyone doing with the product? I think my skin looks better though I can't pinpoint what about is better. I think I said that before.

I will probably order my second bottle this weekend.

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:09 pm

Keliu wrote:

DrJ wrote:

"With all of these potential benefits, it is not surprising that pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies are spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors," observes Dr. Tamara Zemlo, Director of Scientific and Medical Communications for The Science Advisory Board.

But I thought that you and your company had already achieved this.

We are one of the biotechnology companies spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors. There are others. There is no shortage of diseases to cure. But thanks for noticing, we are indeed on the leading edge.

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:12 pm

Kath91 wrote:

DrJ wrote:

... But while topically applied cytokines can penetrate (with help), they are not well absorbed. Only tiny quantities IF ANY *...

* my caps

Er-r-r...I'm confused. What's the point then (of applying them topically) ?

Please read my explanation (a few days ago) about the difference between penetration (into deep layers of skin) and absorption (into the general circulation). Our target is skin, so we don't want absorption.

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:29 pm

DrJ wrote:

We are one of the biotechnology companies spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors. There are others. There is no shortage of diseases to cure. But thanks for noticing, we are indeed on the leading edge.

Whilst I realize that you are involved in the research, I was under the impression that you were buying the cytokines from another company - have I misunderstood?

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:32 pm

Keliu wrote:

DrJ wrote:

We are one of the biotechnology companies spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors. There are others. There is no shortage of diseases to cure. But thanks for noticing, we are indeed on the leading edge.

Whilst I realize that you are involved in the research, I was under the impression that you were buying the cytokines from another company - have I misunderstood?

Certainly not. We have figured out to optimize patterns of cytokine exports from mesenchymal stem cells, which are the body's natural "drug store" for healing and regeneration. So we make em.

free skin care · Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:22 pm

DrJ wrote:

Certainly not. We have figured out to optimize patterns of cytokine exports from mesenchymal stem cells, which are the body's natural "drug store" for healing and regeneration. So we make em.

Thank you for clarifying.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:01 am

DrJ wrote:

Kath91 wrote:

DrJ wrote:

... But while topically applied cytokines can penetrate (with help), they are not well absorbed. Only tiny quantities IF ANY *...

* my caps

Er-r-r...I'm confused. What's the point then (of applying them topically) ?

Please read my explanation (a few days ago) about the difference between penetration (into deep layers of skin) and absorption (into the general circulation). Our target is skin, so we don't want absorption.

I knew the second I submitted and posted question that it was a matter of the difference between penetration and absorption. Too late to retract. My bad.

Given that NO cytokine-topical skin product is 100% free of inflammatory cytokines, fingers crossed, that <0 inflammatory ones get absorbed.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:12 am

or penetrated.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:22 am

Keliu wrote:

Given that we are led to believe that stemcell technology is the future of regenerative medicine, I would have thought that the larger companies would be panting at the bit to encorporate this research into wound healing topicals. Both prescription and OTC.

Burns are also an area in which scientists are always trying to come up with a way of regenerating skin growth. It does amaze me that the research for topical cytokine application seems to be mostly in the cosmedic realm. Which makes me wonder how effective it is if it's not being snapped up for wound healing.

With regard to the cost of cytokine topicals. DrJ has already informed us that one single cell can produce millions of cytokines (or something to that effect) - so they are readily available. I'm sure the larger corporations could find the funding for something that is possibly so beneficial for so many people.

I agree manufacturers should be champing at the bit ... but they will likely begin with the products that are likely to be the best cash cows especially in this financial climate. So OTC anti-ageing not OTC burns creams because anti-ageing is a big bucks market. Big Pharma rarely fund big research projects because a product will save lives they fund what will turn a profit, which is why many diseases prevalent only in third world countries get the sh1tty end of the stick. Sad

I definitely would expect there to be research being carried out on hospital or prescription wound care products. The potential financial benefits for Big Pharma are huge but those products will take years or decades to get through the rigorous drug trials required to be accepted into mainstream medicine. Because it takes so long, companies hold off on patents and publishing journal articles for as long as possible, they want the longest time between 'announcing' their product and generic versions being produced.

Cell culture and processing the end product is not nearly as straightforward as you imagine, there is a huge amount of state of the art equipment and highly skilled personnel required, the other overheads of keeping your clean rooms clean are not to be sniffed at either. It costs millions to billions to bring a drug or proven topical to market, the costs of the research for that product and many other products that never reached the market are also built into the price alongside the production costs.

With respect I think you are being naive and I can totally understand why. I have worked in healthcare for many years and I am still shocked and surprised by practices and prices in the industry. What we have to remember is that first and foremost the big players are cut throat money making machines, they are not healthcare services. Sad

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:23 am

Elvisshops wrote:

So how is everyone doing with the product? I think my skin looks better though I can't pinpoint what about is better. I think I said that before.

I will probably order my second bottle this weekend.

My skin is certainly looking better, Elvisshops. It's clearer and brighter-looking than it has been in quite some time. My second duo of products arrived yesterday.

I do seem to be using up the serum rather quickly, though!

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:01 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

With respect I think you are being naive and I can totally understand why. I have worked in healthcare for many years and I am still shocked and surprised by practices and prices in the industry. What we have to remember is that first and foremost the big players are cut throat money making machines, they are not healthcare services. Sad

I don't know whether I'm being that naive - the large corporations have enough money to jump on anything they like - and if stemcell serums are "flavour of the month", I'm sure they'll eventually jump on the bandwaggon. As for being "money making machines", that's why everyone is in business - I'm sure Celesse is not considering becoming a charitable institution.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:36 am

Keliu wrote:

I don't know whether I'm being that naive - the large corporations have enough money to jump on anything they like - and if stemcell serums are "flavour of the month", I'm sure they'll eventually jump on the bandwaggon. As for being "money making machines", that's why everyone is in business - I'm sure Celesse is not considering becoming a charitable institution.

Big Pharma CAN invest millions into anything they wish but ability has only a limited relationship to whether they WILL. You weren't asking why they weren't investing in stem cells/ cytokines which is a huge potential market, you asked "why hasn't cytokine technology (of any description) been embraced by such companies ... for use in their OTC wound and burn products" which is a niche within a niche IMO.

How many units per year does the average US/ UK/ Oz adult purchase? What is the average spend per unit and what is the maximum spend consumers would consider? How much media hype can be generated just by handing out a few freebies to health journalists and bloggers? Questions any biotechnology company worth their salt would ask themselves at an early stage in development. Re Cellese, Reluma and friends: as I said "so OTC anti-ageing not OTC burns creams because anti-ageing is a big bucks market."

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:46 am

Well really I should have asked why haven't companies like L'Oreal or Olay (Procter & Gamble) invested in cytokine technology for their cosmetic lines. We all know they would jump on Retin-A if they were able. I wasn't referring to Big Pharma.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:25 am

Keliu wrote:

Well really I should have asked why haven't companies like L'Oreal or Olay (Procter & Gamble) invested in cytokine technology for their cosmetic lines. We all know they would jump on Retin-A if they were able. I wasn't referring to Big Pharma.

They have all been looking at cytokines for years. But they tend to wait for a trend to develop then jump on the bandwagon. It's the same ecosystem dynamic in many science and technology-driven industries.

Don't be surprised if one of these larger companies comes out with a cytokine-based or augmented product in the next year or so. You heard it (or at least vague shadows of it) here first.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:33 am

Keliu wrote:

Well really I should have asked why haven't companies like L'Oreal or Olay (Procter & Gamble) invested in cytokine technology for their cosmetic lines. We all know they would jump on Retin-A if they were able. I wasn't referring to Big Pharma.

And recall it was L'Oreal who did the science connecting inflammatory cytokines and hair loss:

Skin Pharmacol. 1996;9(6):366-75.

Pro-inflammatory cytokine cascade in human plucked hair.

Mahé YF, Buan B, Billoni N, Loussouarn G, Michelet JF, Gautier B, Bernard BA.

L'Oréal Hair Biology Research Group, Centre de Recherche C. Zviak, Clichy, France.

Using reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction we showed that freshly plucked human anagen hair expressed both type 1 (80 kD) and type 2 (60 kD) interleukin (IL)-1 receptor mRNAs. The IL-1 receptor type 1 was functional since after in vitro stimulation of plucked hair with IL-1 alpha, we observed the induction of mRNA(s) for the inflammatory cytokines IL-1 beta, tumour necrosis factor alpha and IL-6 as well as for the chemokines monocyte chemotactic and activating factor and IL-8. In addition, the growth of dissected human anagen hairs in culture in vitro was significantly and dose-dependently inhibited by IL-1 alpha as a consequence of hair bulb degradation. These observations, together with those of other authors in IL-1 alpha transgenic mice evidence the inhibitory role of IL-1 on human hair growth. Therefore, in order to identify individuals with high inflammatory potential in their hair follicle environment, we designed a rapid and simple assay to detect variations in the level of IL-1 alpha production in the overnight supernatant of plucked hairs in culture. We observed that 32.7% of the specimens from the volunteers tested (n = 116) could be considered highly inflammatory in terms of IL-1 alpha production. Altogether, these results suggest that in alopecia androgenetica, hair growth might be negatively influenced by IL-1, directly produced by the outer root sheath keratinocytes. Consequently, identifying the "inflammatory alopecic individual' might be of clinical interest to discriminate among individuals for whom anti-IL-1 strategies might be of therapeutic relevance.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:36 am

Kath91 wrote:

or penetrated.

It's the balance that counts.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:12 am

Keliu wrote:

Well really I should have asked why haven't companies like L'Oreal or Olay (Procter & Gamble) invested in cytokine technology for their cosmetic lines. We all know they would jump on Retin-A if they were able. I wasn't referring to Big Pharma.

Good question! You prompted me into a swift Google because I am interested in the answer too. Maybe they are?

"Skin Care Ingredients 2012: Anti-aging: Stem cell technology - The next generation
Date: 13-Jun-2012
Location: Exclusively Online
Type: Virtual conference
The topic:
•Evolution from apple stem cell to include a range of other organic-based ingredients
•Ingredients and finished products overview – the competition has proliferated over the past two years
•How it works – regeneration of skin cells
•Dermal stem cell systems – the next generation of stem cell based ingredients
•The challenge of marketing this scientifically complicated technology

Speakers
Patricia Pineau
Research Communication Director
L’Oreal
Michelle Rathman-Josserand
Scientific Lab Director
L’Oreal
Dr. Fred Zulli
Business Unit Manager of
Mibelle Biochemistry"
http://www.cosmeticsdesign-europe.com/Events/Skin-Care-Ingredients-2012-Anti-aging-Stem-cell-technology-The-next-generation

"Posted: August 31, 2011
Human Stem Cells
In short, and as shown by M. Rathman-Josserand of L’Oréal, stem cell research allows for the following:
Novel concepts and more effective cosmetic treatments for the skin: anti-aging, photo protection, preservation in the face of environmental stresses;
Novel concepts and cosmetic treatments for preventing hair loss and graying;
Development of innovative tissue engineering technologies for in vitro testing purposes;
Predictive toxicology: novel cell systems for the replacement of certain animal models."
http://www.gcimagazine.com/business/rd/technology/128834928.html?page=4

"RNL Bio says that its new cream, derived from stem cells of human placentas, will encourage faster regeneration of skin cells than its predecessors. Rather than using liquefied placentas, boiled to about 220 degrees (F), RNL Bio uses the active cells of natural placenta that are more efficient in stimulating the skin. While the cream will not contain actual stem cells, human proteins found in the cells will be used. RNL Bio is already working on an agreement with Proctor & Gamble® to market the cream, that has been approved by U.S. watchdog, the Personal Care Products Council. The company is anticipating that the impact of the new stem cell cream will be "explosive."
http://inventorspot.com/articles/a_new_stem_cell_rejuvenation_creme_in_the_pipeline_13269

"We are interested in determining whether pluripotent or multipotent adult stem cells can be employed to address critical gaps of the state-of-the-art in vitro tissue models for use in technology ID pipelines of skin and hair R&D.

The potential partner would be able to provide multiple batches of adult pluripotent and multipotent stem cells with research that provided RTB that such cells could be developed for skin & hair cell types. We have already identified a potential partner in this effort.
It would also be ideal to have a second partner who had the ready capability to create and analyze 3D tissue equivalents of skin using these stem cells. We currently have a number of potential collaborators, through our in vitro model development program."
Nonconfidential Technical Problem Statement: Adult Stem Cells (Proctor & Gamble, 2009)

"Currently I’m working on an interdisciplinary project funded by Proctor and Gamble to investigate inflammatory cytokines and their effect on tissue engineered skin models. Data on the effects on the morphology of the developing epidermis is being used to develop an agent based computer model of human epidermis."
http://www.shef.ac.uk/materials/staff/research/research-associates/bullockaj

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:51 am

Our friends at P&G have understood the deleterious effect of pro-inflammatory cytokines in skin for years.

http://pgbeautyscience.com/stratumcorneum-protein-and-pro-inflammatory-cytokine-biomarkers-as-endpoints-for-understanding-the-effects-of-a-high-efficacy-body-moisturizer-containing-niacinamide.php

Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:08 pm

We are not involved with skin research, but I can attest to the fact of an avalanche of research in stem cells and cytokines in private industry as well as universities. As DrJ advised, look at the patent estate as a clue.
Starting AnteAGE - both me (45)and my mom(67). We'll let you know how it goes. -Nan

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:41 pm

NanSam wrote:

We are not involved with skin research, but I can attest to the fact of an avalanche of research in stem cells and cytokines in private industry as well as universities. As DrJ advised, look at the patent estate as a clue.
Starting AnteAGE - both me (45)and my mom(67). We'll let you know how it goes. -Nan

TIA for sharing 'how it goes".

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:43 pm

DrJ wrote:

In terms of long term consequences of applying topicals, another great question. Again, I am going to put it into a framework of understand just how a particular substance works, and whether it is pro- or anti-inflammatory. Did you know that tretinoin is anti-inflammatory? (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045694Z). This is part of what assures its long term safety. Now how about Trichloracetic acid (TCA) at 35%. Highly inflammatory (which is how it works) – would you think it wise to put that on your skin every day for years? Probably not.

Hope this answers your questions. As always, they are very relevant to the discussion.

Thank you, Dr J. I appreciate you taking the time to answer me. I did not know that Tretinoin was anti-inflammatory (could not get your link to work, unfortunately). I believe I understand more now. It is not necessarily the short term use of an inflammatory product, but more the daily use of one for a longer period of time that will do more harm than good in the long run, right?

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:19 pm

DrJ wrote:

Keliu wrote:

Well really I should have asked why haven't companies like L'Oreal or Olay (Procter & Gamble) invested in cytokine technology for their cosmetic lines. We all know they would jump on Retin-A if they were able. I wasn't referring to Big Pharma.

And recall it was L'Oreal who did the science connecting inflammatory cytokines and hair loss:

Skin Pharmacol. 1996;9(6):366-75.

Pro-inflammatory cytokine cascade in human plucked hair.

Mahé YF, Buan B, Billoni N, Loussouarn G, Michelet JF, Gautier B, Bernard BA.

L'Oréal Hair Biology Research Group, Centre de Recherche C. Zviak, Clichy, France.

Using reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction we showed that freshly plucked human anagen hair expressed both type 1 (80 kD) and type 2 (60 kD) interleukin (IL)-1 receptor mRNAs. The IL-1 receptor type 1 was functional since after in vitro stimulation of plucked hair with IL-1 alpha, we observed the induction of mRNA(s) for the inflammatory cytokines IL-1 beta, tumour necrosis factor alpha and IL-6 as well as for the chemokines monocyte chemotactic and activating factor and IL-8. In addition, the growth of dissected human anagen hairs in culture in vitro was significantly and dose-dependently inhibited by IL-1 alpha as a consequence of hair bulb degradation. These observations, together with those of other authors in IL-1 alpha transgenic mice evidence the inhibitory role of IL-1 on human hair growth. Therefore, in order to identify individuals with high inflammatory potential in their hair follicle environment, we designed a rapid and simple assay to detect variations in the level of IL-1 alpha production in the overnight supernatant of plucked hairs in culture. We observed that 32.7% of the specimens from the volunteers tested (n = 116) could be considered highly inflammatory in terms of IL-1 alpha production. Altogether, these results suggest that in alopecia androgenetica, hair growth might be negatively influenced by IL-1, directly produced by the outer root sheath keratinocytes. Consequently, identifying the "inflammatory alopecic individual' might be of clinical interest to discriminate among individuals for whom anti-IL-1 strategies might be of therapeutic relevance.

But this is different: this is connecting an inflammatory cytokine (IL1) with negative outcome (i.e. hair loss in this case). This is not the same as developing a positive therapy using anti-inflammatory cytokines to combat the issue. Two totally different things, imo.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.