Review: Cellese AnteAGE Serum & Accelerator
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Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:53 am

I guess I need to apologize for googling out an non-public document. Sorry DrJ. I get what you mean about trying to talk science in the middle of a soap opera. Once again you get attacked for any reason and no reason. Results are too good is the latest one. "It's a miracle" they complain. Maybe it is a miracle in comparison to to other junk out there. I'm sure getting results, way beyond my expectations, and I'm known as very hard to please. I'm going to read that paper on my next break. Keep 'em coming. -Nan

free skin care · Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:07 pm

NanSam wrote:

I guess I need to apologize for googling out an non-public document. Sorry DrJ. I get what you mean about trying to talk science in the middle of a soap opera. Once again you get attacked for any reason and no reason. Results are too good is the latest one. "It's a miracle" they complain. Maybe it is a miracle in comparison to to other junk out there. I'm sure getting results, way beyond my expectations, and I'm known as very hard to please. I'm going to read that paper on my next break. Keep 'em coming. -Nan

It's good that you will be reading "that paper" because one of the first things you may notice is that the words "bone marrow" are nowhere to be found. No source is provided for the mesenchymal stem cells used in this "study". So for all we know they could be adipose.

The product used in the study was also maintained in a frozen, aqueous form and ultimately mixed with "standard off the shelf ingredients". This is not consistent with the AnteAge product that Cellese is selling. So you'll have to excuse me for not being a brilliant scientist, but I don't think we are comparing apples to apples here. Buy hey, the photos are spectacular.

free skin care · Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:37 pm

NanSam wrote:

I guess I need to apologize for googling out an non-public document. Sorry DrJ. I get what you mean about trying to talk science in the middle of a soap opera. Once again you get attacked for any reason and no reason. Results are too good is the latest one. "It's a miracle" they complain. Maybe it is a miracle in comparison to to other junk out there. I'm sure getting results, way beyond my expectations, and I'm known as very hard to please. I'm going to read that paper on my next break. Keep 'em coming. -Nan

Obviously it was a huge mistake by Cellese to put those photos up - that's why they were so promptly removed. It was hardly your error to find them! The exact same photos are used to promote Stemulation and Stemulance. That is not terribly reassuring. I would also like to know if Cellese is still supplying the cytokines to both Stemulation and Stemulance.

These are really perfectly reasonable questions - and because questions are asked (sometimes hard questions) that doesn't mean we just looking for a soap opera. We looking for answers.

Most of us here were already familiar with Stemulation (and their embarassing Facebook photos) and Stemulance. So it was a little surprising to see the same old photos appear on Cellese.

free skin care · Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:01 pm

Keliu wrote:

NanSam wrote:

I guess I need to apologize for googling out an non-public document. Sorry DrJ. I get what you mean about trying to talk science in the middle of a soap opera. Once again you get attacked for any reason and no reason. Results are too good is the latest one. "It's a miracle" they complain. Maybe it is a miracle in comparison to to other junk out there. I'm sure getting results, way beyond my expectations, and I'm known as very hard to please. I'm going to read that paper on my next break. Keep 'em coming. -Nan

Obviously it was a huge mistake by Cellese to put those photos up - that's why they were so promptly removed. It was hardly your error to find them! The exact same photos are used to promote Stemulation and Stemulance. That is not terribly reassuring. I would also like to know if Cellese is still supplying the cytokines to both Stemulation and Stemulance.

These are really perfectly reasonable questions - and because questions are asked (sometimes hard questions) that doesn't mean we just looking for a soap opera. We looking for answers.

Most of us here were already familiar with Stemulation (and their embarassing Facebook photos) and Stemulance. So it was a little surprising to see the same old photos appear on Cellese.

Cellese did not post any photos. Someone found an old study performed by DrJ that he alone decided not to publish, although he assuredly has rights to do so. Cellese no longer sells cytokines as ingredients to anyone. AnteAGE clinical trial results exceeded all its early prototypes, its first month sales eclipsed all in the market, and it enjoys a remarkable re-order rate.

free skin care · Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:23 pm

DrJ wrote:

Cellese did not post any photos. Someone found an old study performed by DrJ that he alone decided not to publish, although he assuredly has rights to do so. Cellese no longer sells cytokines as ingredients to anyone. AnteAGE clinical trial results exceeded all its early prototypes, its first month sales eclipsed all in the market, and it enjoys a remarkable re-order rate.

Thankyou for the clarification. But the web address for the photos states "anteage.com" which is the Cellese website - so I presumed they were posted by Cellese. http://anteage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/MSC-StemEssence-Pilot-Trial-JS.pdf

Were they not posted on the AnteAge website???

DrJ - why are you referring to yourself in the third person - or are you someone else responding on behalf of DrJ?

free skin care · Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:11 am

Back to our discussion of the stages of healing, and what happens when inflammation persists beyond its evolutionary necessity.

Unlike the evidence discussed above that suggests a tumor’s protective role of innate resistance and immunity, an expanding number of observations are now linking inflammation with tumor initiation and promotion. Many types of tumors have been found to frequently originate on a background of prolonged chronic inflammation, and at least 15% of human tumors may have an infectious origin.15 Table 17.1 shows examples of the association of cancer with chronic inflammation not known to be induced by pathogens, whereas Table 17.2 lists cancer types associated with chronic inflammation induced by infection. One of the early lines of evidence strongly linking cancer and inflammation has been the demonstration that the use of nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) decreases the incidence of tumors (e.g., colon carcinomas) in patients. Experimental models of chemical or transgenic carcinogenesis have now allowed the investigators to identify a series of proinflammatory products, including cytokines, chemokines, enzymes, and transcriptional factors, that are important or necessary for carcinogenesis. At first approximation, it could be concluded that an acute inflammatory or immune response tends to be associated with tumor prevention or an antitumor effect, whereas chronic, smoldering inflammation is rather associated with tumor initiation and progression. Various proinflammatory and anti-inflammatory factors have been studied and in part could be identified as either being associated with facilitation of tumor formation and progression or having an antitumor effect.

Let's next explore the specific skin signs of cutaneous CSI in contrasts to other dermal pathology, and some of the best understood markers of CSI.

free skin care · Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:10 am

Inflamm Res. 2008 Dec;57(12):558-63.
Exploring the complex relations between inflammation and aging (inflamm-aging): anti-inflamm-aging remodelling of inflamm- aging, from robustness to frailty.

Abstract

"Inflamm-aging" denotes the up-regulation of certain pro-inflammatory cytokines at older ages, and associated chronic diseases. It is well known that blood levels of cortisol also increase with age, an increase commonly considered to be due to activation of the Hypothalamus- Pituitary- Adrenal (HPA) axis by many non-specific stressors. On the contrary, herein I describe how the activation of Hypothalamus- Pituitary-Adrenal (HPA), far from being unspecific, constitutes: a) the main specific response and counterbalance to "Inflammaging" ('anti-inflammaging'), b) an explanation for the well known paradox of immune-senescence: i.e. the coexistence of inflammation and immunodeficiency, as well as c) a complex mechanism of remodelling elicited by inflammaging, explaining the long and winding pathophysiological road that goes from robustness to frailty. Indeed, the phenomenon of anti-inflammaging, mainly exerted by cortisol, with the passage of time becomes the cause of a marked decline of immunological functions, and its coexistence with the increased levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines of inflammaging, ultimately have negative impacts on metabolism, bone density, strength, exercise tolerance, the vascular system, cognitive function, and mood. Thus inflammaging and anti-inflammaging together determine many of the progressive pathophysiological changes that characterize the "aged-phenotype", and the struggle to maintain robustness finally results in frailty.

The juxtaposition between aging and inflammaging is mediated largely by the balance between pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines. Regeneration is an agenda that is anti-inflammatory. Chronic inflammation inhibits regeneration or causes it to be become shortcutted.

Acute inflammation has key signs of pain, heat, redness, and swelling. Chronic inflammation in the skin has the paradoxical effect of tumor (swelling) masking some of the mechano-structural effects of aging (e.g. rhytides).Inflammatory fluid in the skin.

More later.

free skin care · Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:12 am

FYI...some clarification on my dermastamp "damage" pics, since apparently people feel that I had committed to posting before and afters for AA, which I had not done. I posted the befor ONLY as a basis for what was using AA to heal, since we all have differing personal experiences with needling aftermath.

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

10Sylvia5 wrote:

well I am building up for a big roll(1mm) today and I am going to follow Bethany and put Reluma (instead of AA) post roll. It will be interesting to see if I have the same reaction to reluma as she did with AA.

Although, I am not such a bleeder, I do have bleeding, more like pin pricks and redness and swelling.

so I shall report later

Exclamation

Not to be a killjoy but what did the pics show? From what I read the picture was the Sunday morning after using a dermastamp all red and swollen, then AA was used after the picture was taken and a report that AA soothed the skin but no picture showing any of that?

I am really confused as to just what that was supposed to show us?

Good luck to you Sylvia!

DM, are you inferring that I didn't really have results? Unfortunately I do work and don't always have time to take the pics that you might like to see. But I would hope that my longstanding forum reputation, and the before and after pics that I have previously shared over the years have established my reputation as being truthful and forthcoming to the benefit of all EDS forum members. I am VERY disappointed that you made the above statement about me, but frankly not surprised at all.

If you can point me to your Reluma before and after pics, I would love to see them. In fact, I don't think you have ever posted any here on EDS, despite your extensive post count.

DarkMoon wrote:

Please someone show me where you are reading this any differently? So we have a picture of Sunday morning after the stamping but before the AA was applied, and that shows us what?

bethany wrote:

I used AnteAge 24 hours after a dermastamp treatment...my skin was very red and horribly bruised. As expected, the bruising was still there this morning, but a lot of the redness had diminished. I have not used AnteAge post-treatment in the past, and it does appear to speed the healing.

As mentioned above, I used a dermastamp on Saturday night, and had the following appearance on Sunday morning:

I started applying AnteAge on Sunday night thinking that it might help reduce the redness a bit, and it was reduced quite a bit the next morning. I continued to apply it 2 to 3x a day, and shockingly probably 90% of the irritation and bruising was gone by mid-day on Wednesday.

Considering that this was the worst bruising I have ever experienced with needling, I was surprised to see it dissipate so quickly. But I am not complaining, and will definitely use AnteAge after my next needling session.

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

Please someone show me where you are reading this any differently? So we have a picture of Sunday morning after the stamping but before the AA was applied, and that shows us what?

DM, I will be more than happy to take a complete set of before and after pics on my next extensive roll just to satisfy your need for more info and your unnecessary attack on my personal integrity.

I challenge you to do the same.

It has not a thing to do with integrity I already explained that so take it or leave it?

I don't do challenges and I don't post pictures personal choice.

The difference is I have no need to prove anything to anyone, but if I were going to do so I would take both before and after or not bother posting any, JMHO.

I choose to leave it...you were very clear on what you were implying. I never said I would post before and afters for AA...I shared a pic of what the dermastamp did, and a basis for the type of healing that it did help me with. Not for AA before and after promotion.

But unless you are setting a better example through your own personal actions, you should really not be criticizing other forum members.

And FYI, I have no need to prove anything either...I post and share pics to help other forum members. But that is why my posts are focused on skin, and not back and forth chatter.

Once again, I am very disappointed in this personal attack. I knew that you had no limits on sellers here, but I had no idea that you would extend that attitude to me personally.

Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:19 am

bethany wrote:

FYI...some clarification on my dermastamp "damage" pics, since apparently people feel that I had committed to posting before and afters for AA, which I had not done. I posted the befor ONLY as a basis for what was using AA to heal, since we all have differing personal experiences with needling aftermath.

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

10Sylvia5 wrote:

well I am building up for a big roll(1mm) today and I am going to follow Bethany and put Reluma (instead of AA) post roll. It will be interesting to see if I have the same reaction to reluma as she did with AA.

Although, I am not such a bleeder, I do have bleeding, more like pin pricks and redness and swelling.

so I shall report later

Exclamation

Not to be a killjoy but what did the pics show? From what I read the picture was the Sunday morning after using a dermastamp all red and swollen, then AA was used after the picture was taken and a report that AA soothed the skin but no picture showing any of that?

I am really confused as to just what that was supposed to show us?

Good luck to you Sylvia!

DM, are you inferring that I didn't really have results? Unfortunately I do work and don't always have time to take the pics that you might like to see. But I would hope that my longstanding forum reputation, and the before and after pics that I have previously shared over the years have established my reputation as being truthful and forthcoming to the benefit of all EDS forum members. I am VERY disappointed that you made the above statement about me, but frankly not surprised at all.

If you can point me to your Reluma before and after pics, I would love to see them. In fact, I don't think you have ever posted any here on EDS, despite your extensive post count.

DarkMoon wrote:

Please someone show me where you are reading this any differently? So we have a picture of Sunday morning after the stamping but before the AA was applied, and that shows us what?

bethany wrote:

I used AnteAge 24 hours after a dermastamp treatment...my skin was very red and horribly bruised. As expected, the bruising was still there this morning, but a lot of the redness had diminished. I have not used AnteAge post-treatment in the past, and it does appear to speed the healing.

As mentioned above, I used a dermastamp on Saturday night, and had the following appearance on Sunday morning:

I started applying AnteAge on Sunday night thinking that it might help reduce the redness a bit, and it was reduced quite a bit the next morning. I continued to apply it 2 to 3x a day, and shockingly probably 90% of the irritation and bruising was gone by mid-day on Wednesday.

Considering that this was the worst bruising I have ever experienced with needling, I was surprised to see it dissipate so quickly. But I am not complaining, and will definitely use AnteAge after my next needling session.

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

bethany wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

Please someone show me where you are reading this any differently? So we have a picture of Sunday morning after the stamping but before the AA was applied, and that shows us what?

DM, I will be more than happy to take a complete set of before and after pics on my next extensive roll just to satisfy your need for more info and your unnecessary attack on my personal integrity.

I challenge you to do the same.

It has not a thing to do with integrity I already explained that so take it or leave it?

I don't do challenges and I don't post pictures personal choice.

The difference is I have no need to prove anything to anyone, but if I were going to do so I would take both before and after or not bother posting any, JMHO.

I choose to leave it...you were very clear on what you were implying. I never said I would post before and afters for AA...I shared a pic of what the dermastamp did, and a basis for the type of healing that it did help me with. Not for AA before and after promotion.

But unless you are setting a better example through your own personal actions, you should really not be criticizing other forum members.

And FYI, I have no need to prove anything either...I post and share pics to help other forum members. But that is why my posts are focused on skin, and not back and forth chatter.

Once again, I am very disappointed in this personal attack. I knew that you had no limits on sellers here, but I had no idea that you would extend that attitude to me personally.

bethany, thank you for your courage - I find it inspiring. Please continue to post here. -Nan

Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:20 am

It's unfortunate that we continue to run into problems on this thread. Posts have been removed and others moderated.

Going forward, if you would like to discuss your experience with the product or have questions related to usage and the like, then as this is a review thread on the Products Review forum, please participate here. But please, no inflammatory posts or personal attacks as they will not be tolerated.

As mentioned earlier, any general discussion should be moved to the Cellese thread on the skin care forum: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45271

Thank you.

free skin care · Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:57 pm

Just an FYI that I have ordered Reluma, and plan on testing it's inflammation/redness reducing ability post-needling against what I have experienced thus far with AnteAge.

I will keep everyone posted, but please know in advance that I am NOT committing to publishing a full set of before and after pics for each product. Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:31 pm

I think, too, that the we need to be sure that the post-roll redness and inflammation reduction is actually due to the stem cells in the product and not the result of other ingredients in the product. For example, some botanicals (essential oils) can have rather dramatic anti- redness/inflammatory effects.

free skin care · Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:08 pm

EthelM wrote:

I think, too, that the we need to be sure that the post-roll redness and inflammation reduction is actually due to the stem cells in the product and not the result of other ingredients in the product. For example, some botanicals (essential oils) can have rather dramatic anti- redness/inflammatory effects.

Dragon had pointed out that one of the AnteAge ingredients was very good at reducing inflammation. I am looking at the serum results as a whole, but I guess if it were just this ingredient reducing the inflammation I might be able to find a cheaper option. However, I give Cellese credit for picking some good stuff to put in there.

Quote:

Essential oil of Myrtus communis inhibits inflammation in rats by reducing serum IL-6 and TNF-alpha.
Maxia A, Frau MA, Falconieri D, Karchuli MS, Kasture S.
Source

Department of Life and Environment Sciences, Botany and Botanical Garden Division, University of Cagliari, Cagliari, Italy.
Abstract

The topical antiinflammatory activity of the essential oil of Myrtus communis L. was studied using croton oil induced ear edema and myeloperoxidase (MPO) activity in mice, and cotton pellet induced granuloma, and serum tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interleukin-6 (IL-6) in rats. On topical application, the oil exhibited a significant decrease in the ear edema as well as MPO activity. The oil also inhibited cotton pellet-induced granuloma and serum TNF-alpha and IL-6. It can be concluded that the essential oil of Myrtus communis reduces leukocyte migration to the damaged tissue and exhibits antiinflammatory activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22164804

I am also going to be testing both AA and RL against tamanu oil, which is one of my favorite anti-inflammatories.

free skin care · Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:11 pm

I do want to point out that I am currently using these products in an atypical manner (just post roll), which does not showcase the full benefits of using them every day.

To be fair, one would really need to use each product for some time to fully assess what they are capable of doing.

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:30 am

bethany wrote:

EthelM wrote:

I think, too, that the we need to be sure that the post-roll redness and inflammation reduction is actually due to the stem cells in the product and not the result of other ingredients in the product. For example, some botanicals (essential oils) can have rather dramatic anti- redness/inflammatory effects.

Dragon had pointed out that one of the AnteAge ingredients was very good at reducing inflammation. I am looking at the serum results as a whole, but I guess if it were just this ingredient reducing the inflammation I might be able to find a cheaper option. However, I give Cellese credit for picking some good stuff to put in there.

Quote:

Essential oil of Myrtus communis inhibits inflammation in rats by reducing serum IL-6 and TNF-alpha.
Maxia A, Frau MA, Falconieri D, Karchuli MS, Kasture S.
Source

Department of Life and Environment Sciences, Botany and Botanical Garden Division, University of Cagliari, Cagliari, Italy.
Abstract

The topical antiinflammatory activity of the essential oil of Myrtus communis L. was studied using croton oil induced ear edema and myeloperoxidase (MPO) activity in mice, and cotton pellet induced granuloma, and serum tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interleukin-6 (IL-6) in rats. On topical application, the oil exhibited a significant decrease in the ear edema as well as MPO activity. The oil also inhibited cotton pellet-induced granuloma and serum TNF-alpha and IL-6. It can be concluded that the essential oil of Myrtus communis reduces leukocyte migration to the damaged tissue and exhibits antiinflammatory activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22164804

I am also going to be testing both AA and RL against tamanu oil, which is one of my favorite anti-inflammatories.

While that is true, the better comparison would be apples to apples, i.e. the efficacy of the stem cell "recipe" in each product, exclusive of the other added ingredients. With your current testing method, if a product contains an added ingredient with anti-inflammatory properties, we cannot be sure the product is effective as a stem cell topical, which is the point. If it is an essential oil that is reducing inflammation and redness, that is an entirely different product category, and one in which you can purchase essential oils and other topical anti-inflammatories for small fractions of the cost of a stem cell topical.

I would think that a better, albeit non-scientific, method of comparing all three SC products would be to use them simultaneously for a month minimum (average skin cell life cycle time). Perhaps dividing one's horizontal forehead crease into three sections, photograph at the onset, and twice daily applying each SC product to it's specified one third of the forehead, the outer left part of the forehead for product 1, the middle forehead for product 2, the outer right part of the forehead for product 3.

The only problem with you doing the above, Bethany, is that YOU don't have any wrinkles or creases! Very Happy

(Your skin looks amazing!)

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:04 am

EthelM wrote:

I would think that a better, albeit non-scientific, method of comparing all three SC products would be to use them simultaneously for a month minimum (average skin cell life cycle time). Perhaps dividing one's horizontal forehead crease into three sections, photograph at the onset, and twice daily applying each SC product to it's specified one third of the forehead, the outer left part of the forehead for product 1, the middle forehead for product 2, the outer right part of the forehead for product 3.

The only problem with you doing the above, Bethany, is that YOU don't have any wrinkles or creases! Very Happy

(Your skin looks amazing!)

Thanks Ethel...you are very sweet to say that!

I actually do have some forehead lines (one for each the major employers over my career, sigh), but they are more pronounced on one side than the other. Confused

I'll have to look them over and see what options I have.

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:15 am

EthelM wrote:

While that is true, the better comparison would be apples to apples, i.e. the efficacy of the stem cell "recipe" in each product, exclusive of the other added ingredients.

But how could we know that it was the conditioned media working? It could be that, or it could be a combination of ingredients in the product irregardless of the conditioned media?

ETA: I do have the lip lines, so I could do the Reluma above my lips on 1 side and the AA on the other. But having already used the AA for a good solid month (of twice daily use with both products) and having no results in that area, I don't think it would tell us anything!

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:29 am

rileygirl wrote:

EthelM wrote:

While that is true, the better comparison would be apples to apples, i.e. the efficacy of the stem cell "recipe" in each product, exclusive of the other added ingredients.

But how could we know that it was the conditioned media working? It could be that, or it could be a combination of ingredients in the product irregardless of the conditioned media?

ETA: I do have the lip lines, so I could do the Reluma above my lips on 1 side and the AA on the other. But having already used the AA for a good solid month (of twice daily use with both products) and having no results in that area, I don't think it would tell us anything!

We still cannot know with absolute certainty, not unless we had ONLY the SC actives from each product... and that's why I mentioned that it wouldn't really be scientific. However, after a month the initial benefits of a topical anti-inflammatory would be far less impactful, so at least we'd largely eliminate that factor and get to see what the other actives were doing to the skin. I assume the other actives in each brew are more essential oils, peptides and other "usual suspects" in skin repair.
Most of us know how these other actives behave on skin, i.e. not giving superb results...because if the other actives could stand alone, we'd not be exploring SC. You are right that it could be the synergy of the mix, but given that we don't have access to just the SC component of each product, this is probably as close as we can get to measuring their differences in performance.
Also, keep in mind that a month is the absolute minimum (and probably not long enough at that) for any topical to show results, simply because skin doesn't repair itself quickly.

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:45 am

rileygirl wrote:

But how could we know that it was the conditioned media working? It could be that, or it could be a combination of ingredients in the product irregardless of the conditioned media?

ETA: I do have the lip lines, so I could do the Reluma above my lips on 1 side and the AA on the other. But having already used the AA for a good solid month (of twice daily use with both products) and having no results in that area, I don't think it would tell us anything!

Very true. Remember also Firefox's post a while ago in which she discussed the many different factors which can skew results? It would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to achieve an absolute test of the conditioned media only.

Sounds like a try each one and see which works best for each individual person at the current time - as is usually the case!

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:56 am

majorb wrote:

Very true. Remember also Firefox's post a while ago in which she discussed the many different factors which can skew results? It would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to achieve an absolute test of the conditioned media only.

Sounds like a try each one and see which works best for each individual person at the current time - as is usually the case!

Yes, I agree. That is why I try to stop everything except cleanser and sunscreen 2 weeks before a trial. Not very scientific, but that is about all I could come up with thinking that would help not skew the results!

I think your comment (that I bolded above) is the best we can do at the moment!

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:58 am

EthelM wrote:

However, after a month the initial benefits of a topical anti-inflammatory would be far less impactful, so at least we'd largely eliminate that factor and get to see what the other actives were doing to the skin.
Also, keep in mind that a month is the absolute minimum (and probably not long enough at that) for any topical to show results, simply because skin doesn't repair itself quickly.

Ok. I see what you are saying. How long do you think we should be giving any of these cytokine products to work? Meaning what is the minimum amount of time that you feel we would see results if we were going to see them?

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:10 am

rileygirl wrote:

EthelM wrote:

However, after a month the initial benefits of a topical anti-inflammatory would be far less impactful, so at least we'd largely eliminate that factor and get to see what the other actives were doing to the skin.
Also, keep in mind that a month is the absolute minimum (and probably not long enough at that) for any topical to show results, simply because skin doesn't repair itself quickly.

Ok. I see what you are saying. How long do you think we should be giving any of these cytokine products to work? Meaning what is the minimum amount of time that you feel we would see results if we were going to see them?

I think the absolute minimum for any topical active, not just SC, to show actual improvement is one month...and to be really fair, two months. And, at only a month, any real changes seen would be very, very minor----the beginning of real repair, in other words. Any changes one sees before a month are likely to be just temporary, such as the action of an anti-inflammatory, or a plumping moisturizer, or smoothing due to an acid, or even due inflammation caused by another ingredient in the product that is slightly swelling the skin and making crevices seem lessened...because the skin repair mechanisms are not able to work in a short time. One need to consider the duration of a skin cell cycle. NO TOPICAL can create lasting repair in short time. The skin just doesnt work that way.

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:13 am

rileygirl wrote:

EthelM wrote:

However, after a month the initial benefits of a topical anti-inflammatory would be far less impactful, so at least we'd largely eliminate that factor and get to see what the other actives were doing to the skin.
Also, keep in mind that a month is the absolute minimum (and probably not long enough at that) for any topical to show results, simply because skin doesn't repair itself quickly.

Ok. I see what you are saying. How long do you think we should be giving any of these cytokine products to work? Meaning what is the minimum amount of time that you feel we would see results if we were going to see them?

I think you need to make a three month commitment to using a stem cell product in order to really judge results. I could be wrong, but I think the idea behind these products is to build collagen and elastin, and that won't happen in 30 days. I suspect the products are formulated with stuff that provides immediate superficial results - just to keep the customer using the product - but the real results take a little time to show up.

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:17 am

Thank you, Ethel and Panda. Ok, so it seems 2 or 3 months would be a fair trial, preferably 3. This makes sense to me, as when I used Obagi, it took 3 months for me to have any noticeable change to my skin.

free skin care · Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:42 am

Panda1 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

EthelM wrote:

However, after a month the initial benefits of a topical anti-inflammatory would be far less impactful, so at least we'd largely eliminate that factor and get to see what the other actives were doing to the skin.
Also, keep in mind that a month is the absolute minimum (and probably not long enough at that) for any topical to show results, simply because skin doesn't repair itself quickly.

Ok. I see what you are saying. How long do you think we should be giving any of these cytokine products to work? Meaning what is the minimum amount of time that you feel we would see results if we were going to see them?

I think you need to make a three month commitment to using a stem cell product in order to really judge results. I could be wrong, but I think the idea behind these products is to build collagen and elastin, and that won't happen in 30 days. I suspect the products are formulated with stuff that provides immediate superficial results - just to keep the customer using the product - but the real results take a little time to show up.

I agree on all points Panda, the longer the better...nothing real can happen before 30 days, that's for certain, and yes, even six months would show just the start of repair. But, given that these are pricey serums and we are regular consumers and not labs with donated product, I think at one month we may see very slight repair---or none---which would be enough to at least begin to evaluate each SC mix.

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