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Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:19 am  |
Ah been logged out so can't edit. Kassy's link makes fun play, trying to search out the 1 percent mark. Haphazardly I took an ingredient to look up the advised percentage. Bisabolol, not too low in the list, is recommended to be used at a percentage of 0.1 to 0.5 percent. The cluster of ingredients surrounding bisabolol then must be below the 1 percent mark.
This way of looking at an ingredient list is very, very helpful, can't thank Kassy enough for this information! |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:20 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
FDA Guidelines, aren't they mandatory when it comes to labeling?
Also, I can understand that standardized extracts with optimum content of active substances don't need to be there in large amounts, but this Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice, very very low in the list sounds weird. |
FDA regulation, portion regarding ingredient listing on cosmetics.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=701.3&utm_campaign=Google2&utm_source=fdaSearch&utm_medium=website&utm_term=ingredient%20list%20regulation&utm_content=1
TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER G--COSMETICS
PART 701 -- COSMETIC LABELING
Subpart A--General Provisions
Sec. 701.3 Designation of ingredients.
(a) The label on each package of a cosmetic shall bear a declaration of the name of each ingredient in descending order of predominance, except that fragrance or flavor may be listed as fragrance or flavor. An ingredient which is both fragrance and flavor shall be designated by each of the functions it performs unless such ingredient is identified by name. No ingredient may be designated as fragrance or flavor unless it is within the meaning of such term as commonly understood by consumers. Where one or more ingredients is accepted by the Food and Drug Administration as exempt from public disclosure pursuant to the procedure established in 720.8(a) of this chapter, in lieu of label declaration of identity the phrase "and other ingredients" may be used at the end of the ingredient declaration. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:05 am |
Cosmetic Labeling & Label Claims
http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/CosmeticLabelingLabelClaims/default.htm
What labeling information is required?
The following information must appear on the principal display panel:
An identity statement, indicating the nature and use of the product, by means of either the common or usual name, a descriptive name, a fanciful name understood by the public, or an illustration [21 CFR 701.11].
An accurate statement of the net quantity of contents, in terms of weight, measure, numerical count or a combination of numerical count and weight or measure [21 CFR 701.13].
The following information must appear on an information panel:
Name and place of business. This may be the manufacturer, packer, or distributor. [21 CFR 701.12].
Distributor statement. If the name and address are not those of the manufacturer, the label must say "Manufactured for..." or "Distributed by..." [21 CFR 701.12].
Material facts. Failure to reveal material facts is one form of misleading labeling and therefore makes a product misbranded [21 CFR 1.21]. An example is directions for safe use, if a product could be unsafe if used incorrectly.
Warning and caution statements. These must be prominent and conspicuous. The FD&C Act and related regulations specify warning and caution statements related to specific products [21 CFR part 740]. In addition, cosmetics that may be hazardous to consumers must bear appropriate label warnings [21 CFR 740.1]. Flammable cosmetics are an example.
Ingredients. If the product is marketed on a retail basis to consumers, even it it is labeled "For professional use only" or words to that effect, the ingredients must appear on an information panel, in descending order of predominance. [21 CFR 701.3]. As an alternative, when cosmetics are distributed on a mail-order basis, the package mailed to the consumer may contain readily visible instructions for locating the ingredient declaration, such as in a product catalog (currently interpreted as including a website), or instructions for requesting a copy of the ingredient declaration. Mail-order distributors must respond promptly to such requests [21 CFR 701.3(r)]. Remember, if the product is also an OTC drug, its labeling must comply with the regulations for both OTC drug and cosmetic ingredient labeling, as stated above.
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Bold referred to in prior post:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=2840d521290f433ef8e5afed3f64c86f&rgn=div5&view=text&node=21:7.0.1.2.13&idno=21#21:7.0.1.2.13.0.1.8
§ 720.8 Confidentiality of statements.
(a) Data and information contained in, attached to, or included with Forms FDA 2512 and FDA 2514, and amendments thereto are submitted voluntarily to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Any request for confidentiality of a cosmetic ingredient submitted with such forms or separately will be handled in accordance with the procedure set forth in this section. The request for confidentiality will also be subject to the provisions of §20.111 of this chapter, as well as to the exemptions in subpart D of part 20 of this chapter and to the limitations on exemption in subpart E of part 20 of this chapter.
(b) Any request for confidentiality of the identity of a cosmetic ingredient should contain a full statement, in a well-organized format, of the factual and legal grounds for that request, including all data and other information on which the petitioner relies, as well as representative information known to the petitioner that is unfavorable to the petitioner's position. The statement of the factual grounds should include, but should not be limited to, scientific or technical data, reports, tests, and other relevant information addressing the following factors that FDA will consider in determining whether the identity of an ingredient qualifies as a trade secret:
(1) The extent to which the identity of the ingredient is known outside petitioner's business;
(2) The extent to which the identity of the ingredient is known by employees and others involved in petitioner's business;
(3) The extent of measures taken by the petitioner to guard the secrecy of the information;
(4) The value of the information about the identity of the claimed trade secret ingredient to the petitioner and to its competitors;
(5) The amount of effort or money expended by petitioner in developing the ingredient; and
(6) The ease or difficulty with which the identity of the ingredient could be properly acquired or duplicated by others.
(c) The request for confidentiality should also be accompanied by a statement that the identity of the ingredient for which confidentiality is requested has not previously been published or disclosed to anyone other than as provided in §20.81(a) of this chapter.
(d) FDA will return to the petitioner any request for confidentiality that contains insufficient data to permit a review of the merits of the request. FDA will also advise the petitioner about the additional information that is necessary to enable the agency to proceed with its review of the request.
(e) If, after receiving all of the data that are necessary to make a determination about whether the identity of an ingredient is a trade secret, FDA tentatively decides to deny the request, the agency will inform the person requesting trade secrecy of its tentative determination in writing. FDA will set forth the grounds upon which it relied in making this tentative determination. The petitioner may withdraw the records for which FDA has tentatively denied a request for confidentiality or may submit, within 60 days from the date of receipt of the written notice of the tentative denial, additional relevant information and arguments and request that the agency reconsider its decision in light of both the additional material and the information that it originally submitted.
(f) If the petitioner submits new data in response to FDA's tentative denial of trade secret status, the agency will consider that material together with the information that was submitted initially before making its final determination.
(g) A final determination that an ingredient is not a trade secret within the meaning of §20.61 of this chapter constitutes final agency action that is subject to judicial review under 5 U.S.C. Chapter 7. If suit is brought within 30 calendar days after such a determination, FDA will not disclose the records involved or require that the disputed ingredient or ingredients be disclosed in labeling until the matter is finally determined in the courts. If suit is not brought within 30 calendar days after a final determination that an ingredient is not a trade secret within the meaning of 21 CFR 20.61, and the petitioner does not withdraw the records for which a request for confidentiality has been denied, the records involved will be made a part of FDA files and will be available for public disclosure upon request. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:18 am |
OK so we must assume the ingredient list is correct, no? That list should be hard data, even if the percentages aren't stated.
My way of looking at such a list would be to look up the advised percentages on sites like Bulk Actives - even though they are often VERY conservative about percentages. That is how I came to my bisabolol remark. An ingredient like glycerine has a big range of different percentages of use, depending on the effect you want to create (there's quite a lot of it in home made vit. c serum recipes for instance). I would rather check out the ingredients that might cause irritation above a certain percentage, so that you can reasonably assume the percentage will not exceed the advised percentage due to possible side effects.
ngredients: Mesenchymal Stem Cell
Cytokines, Water (Aqua), Glycerin
(Plant Derived), C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate,
PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate, Carthamus
Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Alcohol,
Cetearyl Alcohol (Plant Derived),
Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E
Acetate), Polysorbate-20 (Plant
Derived), Cetearyl Glucoside,
Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (Vitamin C
Ester), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba)
Seed Oil, Limnanthes Alba
(Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Essential Oils,
Dimethyl Isosorbide, Butylene Glycol,
Polysorbate-60 (Plant Derived),
Glyceryl Stearate (Plant Derived),
Lecithin, Hydroxyethyl
Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyl Dimethyl
Taurate Copolymer, Soybean
Glycerides, Arachidyl Alcohol, Soy
Isoflavones, Phenoxyethanol
(Preservative), Helianthus Annuus
(Hybrid Sunflower) Oil, Butyrospermum
Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Bisabolol,
Arbutin, Caprylyl Glycol (Naturally
Derived Preservative), Behenyl Alcohol,
Lonicera Japonica (Honeysuckle)
Extract (Natural Preservative),
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Fruit
Extract, Camellia Oleifera (ORGANIC)
Black Tea, Algae (Seaweed) Extract,
Xanthan Gum (Natural Thickener),
Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane),
Chlorphenesin, Squalane (Plant
Derived), Retinol (Vitamin A,
Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10),
Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5), Allantoin
(Comfrey Root Derived), Citrus Medica
Limonum (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Citrus
Aurantium Dulcis (Sweet Neroli
Orange) Fruit, Tetrasodium EDTA,
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice,
Sodium Hyaluronate, Camellia Sinensis
(Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Arachidyl
Glucoside, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed
Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark
Extract, Vaccinium Myrtillus (Bilberry)
Extract, Phyllanthus Emblica (Amla)
Extract, Thioctic Acid (a-Lipoic Acid),
Sodium Hydroxide (pH Modifier) |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:29 am |
I would hope the list is stated in compliance with FDA regulations.
I check a few sources for percentage ranges:
http://www.making cosmetics.com
http://bulkactives.com/
http://www.lotioncrafters.com
http://www.skinactives.com
No particular order,and just what I pulled off the top of my head as my main go to's for information.
I am also more concerned about possible irritants than "basics" however some can effect the feel in a major way if used in too high a percentage. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:06 am |
That would make sense to me, now the real fun begins trying to figure all the other percentages, we don't know how much stem cell extract or water? 
Sorry make that cytokines, both that and water are high on the list! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:52 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| I hope everyone who bites the bullet gets their $$$$$'s worth and the 'cytokines' are indeed a magic bullet and not simply the new hype. |
To be truthful, I have pretty low expectations of everything I smear on my face, with the exception of Retin A and Obagi (which relies on Retin A). But I buy new stuff anyway...maybe it's just for the entertainment value? 
Will I repurchase? Who knows...it was pretty pricey, and I think that will be the purchase barrier for most people. And will I stop using all other products to test it? Doubtful, which will really cloud my perception of it's performance.
Basically, I guess I'll see how I feel about it in a couple of months, and go from there.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:17 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
Yep, I believe I was accurate!
On the other hand, you consistently and repeatedly misquote me, and make false accusations to boot.. (Renovage? Argirelene?..You clearly have me confused with someone else!) As for the white tea and palm oil, you would be smart to follow my lead there as well..
Perhaps a language barrier? Do you really not know why I'm interested in the products "water" content? Or perhaps you are just humoring DrJ by always jumping in to his defense... ! Perhaps a "red herring" as you like to call it.. Anyway, your motives are your business.
Feel free to ignore my posts, especially when they are not directed at you. I'm tired of trying to decipher your posts and figure out who you're even quoting... You should really leave the posters name. |
Why are we talking about water? Are we seriously thinking we need to know because its an active ingredient? I'm not sure I understand.
Let's talk about how this is done. I can only know the water content by inference. For reasons already explained. A final formulation is composed of substances that derive from other substances. Let's say you started out with water, then add some water soluble actives. You have added more water. At then end of the day, the water content is calculated by subtracting everything else in a w/v fashion. It's the main vehicle in cosmetics, just like in food, biochemistry, indeed life.
Now these FDA regulations that everyone keeps talking about don't require that you list final % of anything, just an ordered list. Lot of reasons for that. But there are actually many ways to do those calculations, and there is no one right way.
How is a label made? The ultimate manufacturers (nobody in this industry makes their own, BTW - from P&G & J&J on down) have elaborate software that calculates all this stuff to come up with a final FDA compliant label at the time of manufacture. But the labels in many ways are confusing (which may be why we are talking about it). You get different results based on things like the sequence in which you add the materials in the mixing process. Water can also evaporate during manufacture.
Now on the other hand, every active ingredient is at a guaranteed percentage of the final formulation. We make them test these IN THE FINAL FORMULATION as a quality control (along with other stuff). Every dosage level was devised by us after researching the entire world medical literature, consulting experts, and doing what is called formulation modeling (applied informatics).
But water content? We don't bother testing that because there is no reason to do so. It's not an active. Its the vehicle. We know there is lots of it in every product. That's chemistry.
Companies typically don't share their final recipes, because that just makes it easier for some other company to copy. We are far less secretive than most about that, because our superhero is impossible to duplicate without knowledge that we guard closely. But we still don't publish it for all to see.
I hope this clarifies. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:23 am |
| erg wrote: |
Mine leaked as well (the serum that is).  . Just about all of it was gone.
I contacted customer service. I really wanted to try both products in conjunction. |
The first batch that went out were not entirely secure (at least in the hands of USPO) it seems. Will fix that. Anybody who needs replacements just let customer service know. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:31 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| erg wrote: |
Mine leaked as well (the serum that is). . Just about all of it was gone.
I contacted customer service. I really wanted to try both products in conjunction. |
The first batch that went out were not entirely secure (at least in the hands of USPO) it seems. Will fix that. Anybody who needs replacements just let customer service know. |
Thanks...great customer service is always appreciated. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:52 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
FDA Guidelines, aren't they mandatory when it comes to labeling?
Also, I can understand that standardized extracts with optimum content of active substances don't need to be there in large amounts, but this Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice, very very low in the list sounds weird. |
FDA regulation, portion regarding ingredient listing on cosmetics.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=701.3&utm_campaign=Google2&utm_source=fdaSearch&utm_medium=website&utm_term=ingredient%20list%20regulation&utm_content=1
TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER G--COSMETICS
PART 701 -- COSMETIC LABELING
Subpart A--General Provisions
Sec. 701.3 Designation of ingredients.
(a) The label on each package of a cosmetic shall bear a declaration of the name of each ingredient in descending order of predominance, except that fragrance or flavor may be listed as fragrance or flavor. An ingredient which is both fragrance and flavor shall be designated by each of the functions it performs unless such ingredient is identified by name. No ingredient may be designated as fragrance or flavor unless it is within the meaning of such term as commonly understood by consumers. Where one or more ingredients is accepted by the Food and Drug Administration as exempt from public disclosure pursuant to the procedure established in 720.8(a) of this chapter, in lieu of label declaration of identity the phrase "and other ingredients" may be used at the end of the ingredient declaration. |
I am told there is a conflict between the identity and predominance regs. Lets say you start with water and add ingredients A,B,C, and D in descending concentrations.
Now ingredient B on this list is a multivitamin. Under the identity regs that shows up on the label as Vit A + Vit B1 + Vit B2, etc. But the label may bunch them together. So it looks like:
Water, IngredA [ Vit A + Vit B1 + Vit B2...], IngredC., IngredD).
Vit B is there in lower conc. than IgredC but end up higher on the label because of bundling. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:23 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
FDA Guidelines, aren't they mandatory when it comes to labeling?
Also, I can understand that standardized extracts with optimum content of active substances don't need to be there in large amounts, but this Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice, very very low in the list sounds weird. |
FDA regulation, portion regarding ingredient listing on cosmetics.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfCFR/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=701.3&utm_campaign=Google2&utm_source=fdaSearch&utm_medium=website&utm_term=ingredient%20list%20regulation&utm_content=1
TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER G--COSMETICS
PART 701 -- COSMETIC LABELING
Subpart A--General Provisions
Sec. 701.3 Designation of ingredients.
(a) The label on each package of a cosmetic shall bear a declaration of the name of each ingredient in descending order of predominance, except that fragrance or flavor may be listed as fragrance or flavor. An ingredient which is both fragrance and flavor shall be designated by each of the functions it performs unless such ingredient is identified by name. No ingredient may be designated as fragrance or flavor unless it is within the meaning of such term as commonly understood by consumers. Where one or more ingredients is accepted by the Food and Drug Administration as exempt from public disclosure pursuant to the procedure established in 720.8(a) of this chapter, in lieu of label declaration of identity the phrase "and other ingredients" may be used at the end of the ingredient declaration. |
I am told there is a conflict between the identity and predominance regs. Lets say you start with water and add ingredients A,B,C, and D in descending concentrations.
Now ingredient B on this list is a multivitamin. Under the identity regs that shows up on the label as Vit A + Vit B1 + Vit B2, etc. But the label may bunch them together. So it looks like:
Water, IngredA [ Vit A + Vit B1 + Vit B2...], IngredC., IngredD).
Vit B is there in lower conc. than IgredC but end up higher on the label because of bundling. |
Wow the FDA regulations really seem to get your dander up, sorry.
Now please explain why if I and most DIYers buy INDIVIDUAL ingredients to make our potions would a formulating company use compounds? How do you know you are getting them in a proper percentage that way?
Using your example honestly the only place I see Vitamins compounded together is in those we take as oral supplements, not sold for use in formulating skincare! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:24 am |
| Here's what I don't get about the ingredients. Isn’t the point of this product the MSC cytokines? If the cytokines are really as powerful/helpful/special as what DrJ is purporting, then aren’t the remaining ingredients just a nice bonus – because what you are really interested in is the performance of the cytokines - which is the one thing you can't get in other products? I’m actually confused as to why it is necessary to have all these other great ingredients if the cytokines are capable of doing so much. It seems to me that the presence of so many other ingredients can interfere with judging the performance of the product since good results can be attributed to the other ingredients and not the cytokines. Or am I missing something? |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:44 am |
that makes great sense Panda. Imagine how big the label will need to be to host all that.
Seriously I would love to try this stuff. By the time it is available in UK there should be many reviews from people that have actually used it for a decent amount of time. Therefore I will know whether it is worth spending my money on. |
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50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:51 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Wow the FDA regulations really seem to get your dander up, sorry. |
Not a dander issue. Its just one of those "things are not as simple as they should be" things.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
Now please explain why if I and most DIYers buy INDIVIDUAL ingredients to make our potions would a formulating company use compounds? How do you know you are getting them in a proper percentage that way? |
OK, so lets say you add CAS #: 137-66-6, Ascorbyl Palmitate, to a lotion. Now tell me what you just added. Everything you just added.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Using your example honestly the only place I see Vitamins compounded together is in those we take as oral supplements, not sold for use in formulating skincare! |
It was a concept, an abstraction. I didn't make it cosmetic specific. Look to the principle it illustrates. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:56 am |
I don't ever use Ascorbyl Palmitate so would not have the answer off the top of my head Dr. J. However the LAA I purchase is 100% pure LAA.
We are talking cosmetics here aren't we? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:10 am |
| bethany wrote: |
Both the serum and the accelerator spread very easily, and I loved that they had no discernable scent. I can see this layering very nicely under makeup.
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I put both the serum and the accelerator on this morning, and noticed about an hour later that the area around my nose was greasy. (the rest of my face is fine though) If that is due to the accelerator, I am not sure I would use that under makeup, or at least keep it away from your tzone if you tend to get oily there. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:20 am |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Here's what I don't get about the ingredients. Isn’t the point of this product the MSC cytokines? If the cytokines are really as powerful/helpful/special as what DrJ is purporting, then aren’t the remaining ingredients just a nice bonus – because what you are really interested in is the performance of the cytokines - which is the one thing you can't get in other products? I’m actually confused as to why it is necessary to have all these other great ingredients if the cytokines are capable of doing so much. It seems to me that the presence of so many other ingredients can interfere with judging the performance of the product since good results can be attributed to the other ingredients and not the cytokines. Or am I missing something? |
Great question Panda1. The simple answer is this. Actives work in different ways. They can be complimentary (but not always).
Cytokines work at the cell receptor level to orchestrate what should go on (e.g. repair, regeneration, rejuvenation). Think of them like general contractors. They have a plan, they parse out the tasks. But then there are subcontractors who do much of the work on individual portions of the project, like DNA making the right proteins (materials to build), metabolic pathways (a generator to supply energy), etc. And you need to activate the guys who deliver the materials to the cells, and even sometimes build or widen the roads. Many actives (esp. vitamins) act as co-factors in the biochemical pathways. We choose actives and their concentrations based on the known role in physiology, looking for that complimentarity. And, when we test, we test the whole formulation, and generally see that the whole works better than the sum of the parts.
Hope this helps. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:22 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I don't ever use Ascorbyl Palmitate so would not have the answer off the top of my head Dr. J. However the LAA I purchase is 100% pure LAA.
We are talking cosmetics here aren't we? |
OK, we will use LAA as an example. INCI Name: Sodium Lauroamphoacetate CAS No.: 68608-66-2
You say the LAA is 100% pure. But is it really? The manufacturer doesn't make that claim.
Appearance @25°C
Clear light colored
liquid
Viscosity @ 25°C, cps 1400-5000
Color, GARDNER 3 maximum
Solids (moisture balance) 39-39
pH, 10% in water 9.0-9.5
Sodium Chloride, % 6.5-7.6
Given that it is 6.5 - 7.6 % NaCl, where does that go on the label? What is the final concentration?
And let's say you q.s. with 50% citric acid to lower the pH down to 6.0. Where does that go on the label? And how much? Since you q.s'd are you going tolist the molar concentration, or the w/w? Very important since water is most often q.s'd in, right? Oh, and tell me about those solids. What exactly are they? |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:23 am |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Here's what I don't get about the ingredients. Isn’t the point of this product the MSC cytokines? If the cytokines are really as powerful/helpful/special as what DrJ is purporting, then aren’t the remaining ingredients just a nice bonus – because what you are really interested in is the performance of the cytokines - which is the one thing you can't get in other products? I’m actually confused as to why it is necessary to have all these other great ingredients if the cytokines are capable of doing so much. It seems to me that the presence of so many other ingredients can interfere with judging the performance of the product since good results can be attributed to the other ingredients and not the cytokines. Or am I missing something? |
I think you've made a good point, Panda.
I'm interested and like a lot of the other ing. & how they work in concert together but personally it's the MSC cytokines that I am most interested in as being the main *active*. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:25 am |
| Just ordered my samples! Excited. So good that we can get samples before spending so much money. I just want to make sure nothing irritates my skin before I purchase! |
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I'm 49, fair skin, green eyes, blonde hair, dry slightly sensitive skin, I have very few wrinkles, slight pigmentation, main worry is sagging..yuck!! Currently using CP |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:29 am |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Here's what I don't get about the ingredients. Isn’t the point of this product the MSC cytokines? If the cytokines are really as powerful/helpful/special as what DrJ is purporting, then aren’t the remaining ingredients just a nice bonus – because what you are really interested in is the performance of the cytokines - which is the one thing you can't get in other products? I’m actually confused as to why it is necessary to have all these other great ingredients if the cytokines are capable of doing so much. It seems to me that the presence of so many other ingredients can interfere with judging the performance of the product since good results can be attributed to the other ingredients and not the cytokines. Or am I missing something? |
I actually would have preferred to see just the cytokines (or a very limited actives list) in one product, and the rest in another product.
And it does seem like the ingredients list is excessively long, plus it limits the sale of future ancillary products if they already stuck everything in there to begin with, lol. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:41 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Here's what I don't get about the ingredients. Isn’t the point of this product the MSC cytokines? If the cytokines are really as powerful/helpful/special as what DrJ is purporting, then aren’t the remaining ingredients just a nice bonus – because what you are really interested in is the performance of the cytokines - which is the one thing you can't get in other products? I’m actually confused as to why it is necessary to have all these other great ingredients if the cytokines are capable of doing so much. It seems to me that the presence of so many other ingredients can interfere with judging the performance of the product since good results can be attributed to the other ingredients and not the cytokines. Or am I missing something? |
I actually would have preferred to see just the cytokines (or a very limited actives list) in one product, and the rest in another product.
And it does seem like the ingredients list is excessively long, plus it limits the sale of future ancillary products if they already stuck everything in there to begin with, lol. |
Nah, we're not stuck. Lots of possibilities. Do look at the serum formula again. It's really pretty simple. The accelerator is less complicated than it appears. If you put all botanical antioxidants in one lump, it would eliminate 1/3 of the label. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:13 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
OK, so lets say you add CAS #: 137-66-6, Ascorbyl Palmitate, to a lotion. Now tell me what you just added. |
A (mostly) oil soluble food additive!
Come now doc... Why not stick to things that are good for the 'skin'?
As for the "water" question, forget it. I was simply trying to figure out how much empty (invaluable) space it takes up in your activator. Not sure why anybody got the idea I considered it an "active"... |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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| Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:57 pm |
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