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Mon May 07, 2012 10:53 am  |
Count me in! I'm SO on board with Dr. DF's methods. I'm doing this!!  |
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Mon May 07, 2012 10:59 am |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Count me in! I'm SO on board with Dr. DF's methods. I'm doing this!! |
That makes two of us! I know most of our long time rollers follow his protocol!
When are you starting Ethel? I have to get back on my RA and C tonight and in the morning! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 11:57 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Count me in! I'm SO on board with Dr. DF's methods. I'm doing this!! |
That makes two of us! I know most of our long time rollers follow his protocol!
When are you starting Ethel? I have to get back on my RA and C tonight and in the morning! |
I've been using tretinoin every other night for a few months now, so I'll increase that to nightly use for a while first. I haven't started a C product yet...not sure which C to use. So, I'll get some C and start on that for a few weeks, too, and then do a needling. It's solid science, with visible results, so while it's not as easy as smoothing on a pricey luxurious facecream, I'd rather grit my teeth, dermaroll and get good results. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:02 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Count me in! I'm SO on board with Dr. DF's methods. I'm doing this!! |
That makes two of us! I know most of our long time rollers follow his protocol!
When are you starting Ethel? I have to get back on my RA and C tonight and in the morning! |
I've been using tretinoin every other night for a few months now, so I'll increase that to nightly use for a while first. I haven't started a C product yet...not sure which C to use. So, I'll get some C and start on that for a few weeks, too, and then do a needling. It's solid science, with visible results, so while it's not as easy as smoothing on a pricey luxurious facecream, I'd rather grit my teeth, dermaroll and get good results. |
I have been using RA regularly for a little over a year and a LAA C serum DIY for ages, but took a break to trial the Cellese products, but I am starting tonight adding my RA back in and the C serum in the morning!
I got over the "fancy" promises of over priced products a while ago. Now I want real results and proven actives! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:39 pm |
| Does anyone know offhand what form of topical C is preferred by Dr, DF? MAP or tetra, or ascorbic? |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:48 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Does anyone know offhand what form of topical C is preferred by Dr, DF? MAP or tetra, or ascorbic? |
I have a few pdf files from Environ written by Dr. Fernandez if you like pm me with an email addy and I can send them, we can't send pdf files through the pm service. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:50 pm |
Tetra, just answered that one a couple days ago here...the benefits of board searches are enormous...just ask DM.
BFG |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:53 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Tetra, just answered that one a couple days ago here...the benefits of board searches are enormous...just ask DM.
BFG |
LOL you just love to tease me!
I am printing out the files so I have those instructions at hand, and I plan on using my Tetra C!  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:58 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Does anyone know offhand what form of topical C is preferred by Dr, DF? MAP or tetra, or ascorbic? |
I have a few pdf files from Environ written by Dr. Fernandez if you like pm me with an email addy and I can send them, we can't send pdf files through the pm service. |
Thanks! I'll PM you with my email address. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:59 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Tetra, just answered that one a couple days ago here...the benefits of board searches are enormous...just ask DM.
BFG |
I did search and must've missed it. Sorry and thanks. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 12:59 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Does anyone know offhand what form of topical C is preferred by Dr, DF? MAP or tetra, or ascorbic? |
I have a few pdf files from Environ written by Dr. Fernandez if you like pm me with an email addy and I can send them, we can't send pdf files through the pm service. |
Thanks! I'll PM you with my email address. |
I will send you all my pdf's as attachments! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 2:00 pm |
| On the topic of tetra as the preferred topical C form, does anyone know exactly why Dr. DF prefers tetra? I'd read a few studies suggesting that MAP was a better alternative to l-ascorbic, but they are somewhat dated studies, all in vitro and perhaps more current data has now become available. Just curious. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 2:12 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
| On the topic of tetra as the preferred topical C form, does anyone know exactly why Dr. DF prefers tetra? I'd read a few studies suggesting that MAP was a better alternative to l-ascorbic, but they are somewhat dated studies, all in vitro and perhaps more current data has now become available. Just curious. |
I am guessing that it is because it is oil soluble which works with the A&D used in after care?
MAP is water soluble.
I may be off on that as I am really guessing, I already have Tetra C on hand so that is my plan of action! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 2:26 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Does anyone know offhand what form of topical C is preferred by Dr, DF? MAP or tetra, or ascorbic? |
I have a few pdf files from Environ written by Dr. Fernandez if you like pm me with an email addy and I can send them, we can't send pdf files through the pm service. |
Thanks! I'll PM you with my email address. |
I will send you all my pdf's as attachments! |
Hi DM, I just posted a longish note for you and interested others over in the AnteAGE product review thread.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45400&start=375 SCROLL DOWN
I am making the case for AnteAGE as superior to A and C (alone, since AE contains both) by looking at DrF's own logic and all his pre- and post roll recommendations, as expressed in his most illustrative published paper. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 2:35 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| Does anyone know offhand what form of topical C is preferred by Dr, DF? MAP or tetra, or ascorbic? |
I have a few pdf files from Environ written by Dr. Fernandez if you like pm me with an email addy and I can send them, we can't send pdf files through the pm service. |
Thanks! I'll PM you with my email address. |
I will send you all my pdf's as attachments! |
Hi DM, I just posted a longish note for you and interested others over in the AnteAGE product review thread.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45400&start=375 SCROLL DOWN
I am making the case for AnteAGE as superior to A and C (alone, since AE contains both) by looking at DrF's own logic and all his pre- and post roll recommendations, as expressed in his most illustrative published paper. |
I read your post and I responded, I may just combine both your idea of protocol and Dr.Fernandez's! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 2:51 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
| On the topic of tetra as the preferred topical C form, does anyone know exactly why Dr. DF prefers tetra? |
He feels it is more stable. I'll see if I can find what he wrote about that. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 3:01 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| EthelM wrote: |
| On the topic of tetra as the preferred topical C form, does anyone know exactly why Dr. DF prefers tetra? |
He feels it is more stable. I'll see if I can find what he wrote about that. |
Thank Rileygirl. Tetra is more stable than L-ascorbic, but MAP is stable too. I guess the comparison would be between MAP and Tetra. I personally prefer tetra over MAP because I don't like the increased depigmentation that MAP gives (I'm fair enough already and don't need any whitening. LOL). |
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Mon May 07, 2012 4:08 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
Thank Rileygirl. Tetra is more stable than L-ascorbic, but MAP is stable too. I guess the comparison would be between MAP and Tetra. I personally prefer tetra over MAP because I don't like the increased depigmentation that MAP gives (I'm fair enough already and don't need any whitening. LOL). |
Hey, Ethel. I can't find what I was looking for at the moment, but I do not think Dr. F was thrilled with the MAP. I will keep digging but so far I haven't had luck with finding anything in my emails! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 4:57 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
Foxe
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| It appears he thinks using any form of vitamin A is what is prudent. |
Based on this in his research:
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Vitamin A is utterly
essential for the normal physiology of skin and yet it is destroyed by exposure to light so that it is prevented from exerting its important influence on skin and preserving collagen. Vitamin A is believed to control between 350 to 1000 genes that control normal function, proliferation, and differentiation of
cells. One cannot exaggerate the value of vitamin A in a rejuvenation program for skin, especially with PCI, |
Which is also backed up by countless other studies on the use of the Retinoic acid precursors.
It is boring, but it is extremely useful. No sexy biotech company name attached to it, so no one promoting it. But the research on it is solid. No ReNEWUFace, or DermAFixall to make it exciting.
I also use CP's or GHK Cu post roll. Along with the rest of the mix. Effective. |
DragoN - I'm not sure what your point here is?? Are you agreeing with my post or disagreeing?? |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon May 07, 2012 5:09 pm |
| An interesting observation re Dermarolling - I've been rolling for some time now and believe that it has definitely thickened up my skin - my broken caps and veins are barely visible now. But what I want to mention is that for the past couple of months I've been using the Lyapko Roller morning and night. THIS IS NOT A DERMAROLLER - it does not pierce the skin. But it seems to have toughened up my skin - because now when I Dermaroll, it doesn't hurt as much and I find that even with my 1.5mm roller I don't need to use anaesthetic cream. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 5:24 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| An interesting observation re Dermarolling - I've been rolling for some time now and believe that it has definitely thickened up my skin - my broken caps and veins are barely visible now. But what I want to mention is that for the past couple of months I've been using the Lyapko Roller morning and night. THIS IS NOT A DERMAROLLER - it does not pierce the skin. But it seems to have toughened up my skin - because now when I Dermaroll, it doesn't hurt as much and I find that even with my 1.5mm roller I don't need to use anaesthetic cream. |
I have been thinking of adding one after reading your and Luminosity's posts about the Lyapko Roller! If I do it would be my last purchase for a good while (and I mean it now), but it sounds like a good way to prep for the actual roller! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 5:38 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I have been thinking of adding one after reading your and Luminosity's posts about the Lyapko Roller! If I do it would be my last purchase for a good while (and I mean it now), but it sounds like a good way to prep for the actual roller! |
I don't believe all the stuff about galvanic current being directed into the skin which is attributed to the Lyapko - but I do believe in massage. And this gives the skin a real workout. My current modus operandi is "abuse it or lose it!" And the Lyapko is a bit like "abuse" (but nowhere near as bad as the Dermaroller). But I do think it's all helping to toughen up and thicken my skin. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon May 07, 2012 5:53 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| I have been thinking of adding one after reading your and Luminosity's posts about the Lyapko Roller! If I do it would be my last purchase for a good while (and I mean it now), but it sounds like a good way to prep for the actual roller! |
I don't believe all the stuff about galvanic current being directed into the skin which is attributed to the Lyapko - but I do believe in massage. And this gives the skin a real workout. My current modus operandi is "abuse it or lose it!" And the Lyapko is a bit like "abuse" (but nowhere near as bad as the Dermaroller). But I do think it's all helping to toughen up and thicken my skin. |
Thanks Keliu,
In all honesty I have not even checked out any sites selling the Lyapko, so I have missed those supposed galvanic currents!
I have seen you and Luminosity post about how much you liked it and that is what has me sold on it!
I am a huge lover of massage for facial skin and this seems to take that to a new level that is impossible to achieve with the hands alone. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 11:04 pm |
| Quote: |
| Are you agreeing with my post or disagreeing?? |
Agreeing.
Just backing it up further. Sorry that was not clear. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Tue May 08, 2012 3:32 am |
Add my voice to the chorus of echoes. My needling data and papers are all over the place. I have to organize them in one folder so I can be more clear on my own advice/instructions.
That said, IIRC, he believes tetra is more effective not due to stability (although it is stable) but more so because it is a better "workhorse" than the other forms of Vitamin C...i.e. better at supporting collagen synthesis, etc.
I am trying to get my hands on that Fernandes paper showing the woman with 5 years of rolling use....oh my god - 5 years later she looked 20 years younger - and she was way middle-aged to begin with. YOu could see the "thickness" in the photo.
BFG |
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