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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Wed May 02, 2012 9:07 am  |
Since many are interested in skin lighteners, as suggested on another thread we are opening a new topic to discuss available options as well as their safety and efficacy.
Where should we start?  |
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Wed May 02, 2012 11:41 am |
| havana8 wrote: |
Since many are interested in skin lighteners, as suggested on another thread we are opening a new topic to discuss available options as well as their safety and efficacy.
Where should we start? |
Lets start with our old friend (enemy?) hydroquinone.
Here is my issue. There are actives that work just as well for skin lightening, but with a much better safety profile, and are available at Target. Yet some "sell only in Dr's Office" brands continue to push hydroquinone through these professional channels. Why? Because it makes them "special"?
Without going deep into the physiology of skin lighteners (I'm sure there is a thread here for that), remember that the pathway through which HQ works is tyrosinase inhibition. Problem with HQ is that in addition to inhibiting that enzyme system, it affects affecting mRNA expression. And it gets absorbed quite easily so it acts systemically, not just on skin. It has been estimated that 35% to 45% is systemically absorbed following topical use in humans
Here is an abstract:
Final amended safety assessment of hydroquinone as used in cosmetics.
Andersen FA, Bergfeld WF, Belsito DV, Hill RA, Klaassen CD, Liebler DC, Marks JG Jr, Shank RC, Slaga TJ, Snyder PW.
Cosmetic Ingredient Review, Washington, DC 20036, USA. cirinfo@cir-safety
Hydroquinone is an aromatic compound that functions in cosmetics as an antioxidant, fragrance, reducing agent, or polymerization inhibitor. Hydroquinone is also used as a skin bleaching agent. Safety and toxicity information indicate that hydroquinone is dermally absorbed in humans from both aqueous and alcoholic formulations and is excreted mainly as the glucuronide or sulfate conjugates. Hydroquinone is associated with altered immune function in vitro and in vivo in animals and an increased incidence of renal tubule cell tumors and leukemia in F344 rats, but the relevance to humans is uncertain. Quantitatively, however, the use of hydroquinone in cosmetics is unlikely to result in renal neoplasia through this mode of action. Thus, hydroquinone is safe at concentrations of ≤1% in hair dyes and is safe for use in nail adhesives. Hydroquinone should not be used in other leave-on cosmetics.
Better alternatives? Arbutin, a naturally occurring HQ beta-D-gluconopyranoside is commonly used. Arbutin decreases tyrosinase activity without affecting mRNA expression and inhibits 5,6-dihydroxyindole-2-carboxylic acid (DHICA) polymerase activity.
There are lots of other pathways to affect as well. E.g. stem cytokines lighten and reduce dyschromia in a postranslational fashion. Niacinamide works well. Combinations work well.
So, to my point, if there are equally effective LESS TOXIC approaches (and available without a dr's office visit) ... do we want to encourage these manufacturers to continue their "our stuff is cool because you can only get it in dr's offices" marketing strategy? As I said before, it irks me a bit. |
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Wed May 02, 2012 11:42 am |
IPL/Laser!
I have given up on topical actives, and hope to do this some day. I have no authoritative information to contribute at the moment, but will be interested in any discussion and feedback on IPL or Laser. |
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Wed May 02, 2012 11:43 am |
| Oops, I see Dr.J ninja'd me. Hydroquinone it is, then... |
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Wed May 02, 2012 12:41 pm |
There is a reason HQ is still the Gold standard for pigmentation issues - because it works. (I am talking about stubborn, deep hyperpigmentation here, not something to lighten freckles, even up the skin tone, etc.) There may be "safer" ingredients, but I don't think any of them have been proven to work as well as HQ, which is why this ingredient is still around. Aren't the safety issues only a factor when you are talking about a Large dose of HQ (well above the Rx 4% strength), as well as internal use of the ingredient, or when using it for longer than 3-4 months at a time?
ETA: I don't have pigmentation issues any longer (Obagi wiped all that out for me). But, I did want to toot your horn/product, Dr. J, as it has been only 2 1/2 weeks since starting it, and my skin is taking on a nice "even" look for lack of a better word. I am not sure if that is due to reduced redness, or what, but I am liking the results. However, I am not sure if they would truly work on someone with deeper pigmentation issues, which is where HQ fits in, IMO. |
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Wed May 02, 2012 12:49 pm |
Wow, I totally agree with everything DrJ wrote... 
But, some folks are looking to turn brown skin into white, where as hydroquinone (as dangerous as it is long term) seems to have worked for some. (Michael Jackson, Beyonce, Tyra and a few others come to mind) And no I don't have proof, so please no jumping on me.. But I know what I see with my own eyes!
Then we have those who 'just' want to deal with melasma and such, and even though there are safer alternatives, people are always up for more instant gratification products...(Even at the detriment of their health.)
What about short term use of hydroquinone at no more than 4% for say 6 months? Kind of as a jump start if you will... And then ingredients like; arbutin, kojic acid, niacinamide, licorice root, retinols and maybe even L-AA.
I mention L-AA simply because I haven't experienced even one tan line since I've used it consistently head to toe.. (I avoid the sun when I can and don't use sunscreen regularly.. AND I live in south Florida.) And NO, I am not suggesting anybody forgo sunscreen, but I am suggesting that a well formulated antioxidant serum affords UV protection (in addition to your sunscreen) in my experience..
Nice topic idea! I'll see if I can dig up any of my past research that might be of value..
ETA: I just saw your post Riley.. I followed your Obagi posts for years and totally respect both your use of Obagi and the responsible way you share your knowledge of the products.. I salute you my girl.. It is a younger generation of gals, who might be using for the wrong reasons, or with reckless abandon that I had in mind.. |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Wed May 02, 2012 12:53 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| ETA: I don't have pigmentation issues any longer (Obagi wiped all that out for me). But, I did want to toot your horn/product, Dr. J, as it has been only 2 1/2 weeks since starting it, and my skin is taking on a nice "even" look for lack of a better word. I am not sure if that is due to reduced redness, or what, but I am liking the results. However, I am not sure if they would truly work on someone with deeper pigmentation issues, which is where HQ fits in, IMO. |
Wait -- what is DrJ's product? |
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Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 pm |
| melanie haber wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| ETA: I don't have pigmentation issues any longer (Obagi wiped all that out for me). But, I did want to toot your horn/product, Dr. J, as it has been only 2 1/2 weeks since starting it, and my skin is taking on a nice "even" look for lack of a better word. I am not sure if that is due to reduced redness, or what, but I am liking the results. However, I am not sure if they would truly work on someone with deeper pigmentation issues, which is where HQ fits in, IMO. |
Wait -- what is DrJ's product? |
Cellese AnteAge:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45400 |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 02, 2012 1:18 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
ETA: I don't have pigmentation issues any longer (Obagi wiped all that out for me). But, I did want to toot your horn/product, Dr. J, as it has been only 2 1/2 weeks since starting it, and my skin is taking on a nice "even" look for lack of a better word. I am not sure if that is due to reduced redness, or what, but I am liking the results. However, I am not sure if they would truly work on someone with deeper pigmentation issues, which is where HQ fits in, IMO. |
It is probably due to the niacinamide in the serum. |
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Wed May 02, 2012 2:35 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
ETA: I don't have pigmentation issues any longer (Obagi wiped all that out for me). But, I did want to toot your horn/product, Dr. J, as it has been only 2 1/2 weeks since starting it, and my skin is taking on a nice "even" look for lack of a better word. I am not sure if that is due to reduced redness, or what, but I am liking the results. However, I am not sure if they would truly work on someone with deeper pigmentation issues, which is where HQ fits in, IMO. |
It is probably due to the niacinamide in the serum. |
Niacinamide is one key, but not the only one. Vit A helps too (part of the original Klingman combo formula of HQ, retinol & corticosteroid). Several years we had a formulation with no niacinamide or retinoids and we saw the same results, although we think all these are additive).
A solution of stem cytokines alone has this color smoothing effect. Several cytokines are at work, reducing inflammation (which has a role in may dyschromias), altering melanin production, and inhibiting tyrosinase.
At one point we tested alpha arbutin in the AnteAGE accelerator as an extra brightening agent, but abandoned it as being perhaps "too much" for most people |
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Wed May 02, 2012 2:41 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
ETA: I don't have pigmentation issues any longer (Obagi wiped all that out for me). But, I did want to toot your horn/product, Dr. J, as it has been only 2 1/2 weeks since starting it, and my skin is taking on a nice "even" look for lack of a better word. I am not sure if that is due to reduced redness, or what, but I am liking the results. However, I am not sure if they would truly work on someone with deeper pigmentation issues, which is where HQ fits in, IMO. |
It is probably due to the niacinamide in the serum. |
Niacinamide is one key, but not the only one. Vit A helps too (part of the original Klingman combo formula of HQ, retinol & corticosteroid). Several years we had a formulation with no niacinamide or retinoids and we saw the same results, although we think all these are additive).
A solution of stem cytokines alone has this color smoothing effect. Several cytokines are at work, reducing inflammation (which has a role in may dyschromias), altering melanin production, and inhibiting tyrosinase.
At one point we tested alpha arbutin in the AnteAGE accelerator as an extra brightening agent, but abandoned it as being perhaps "too much" for most people |
OK, I stand corrected. Whatever is doing it, I like how "bright" and even-toned my skin is looking from using the serum. |
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Thu May 10, 2012 4:43 am |
Regarding safe lightening, I just started using a serum by MaryKay called TimeWise even complexion essence. I found it because I was looking at the list of "best lightening products" on Paula Begouns "beautypedia" site. And it was rated as one of the best ones without hydroquinone. It contains Niacinimide, Vitamin C, "Sepiwhite" (Undecylenoyl Phenylalanine)", Licorice extract and Mulberry extract.
This is the ingredients list:
Water, Propylene Glycol, Dimethicone, Isododecane, Glycerin, Niacinamide, Ascorbyl Glucoside, Triethanolamine, Betaine, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, 1-Methylhydantoin-2-Imide, Undecylenoyl Phenylalanine, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide, Tocopheryl Acetate, Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate, Citrus Medica Limonum Fruit Extract, Cucumis Sativus Fruit Extract, Camellia Oleifera Leaf Extract, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Thymus Extract, Sanguisorba Root Extract, Morus Alba Bark Extract, Oenothera Biennis Seed Extract, Serine, Threonine, Proline, Arginine, Glycine, Alanine, Lysine, Glutamic Acid, Sodium Pca, Sorbitol, Polysorbate 20, Butylene Glycol, Laurenth-7, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Peg-12 Dimethicone, Polyacrylamide, Boron Nitride, Carbomer, Sodium Citrate, Disodium Edta, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Mica, Titanium Dioxide
So I got it and am really liking it. It really helps my rosacea also. (Which I wasn't expecting.) I just wonder, are some of these ingredients safe? Like Mulberry extract and Sepiwhite. I worry about Mulberry extract because it contains Arbutin I think, even though it's a small amount, I know arbutin is linked to hydroquinone. Though Arbutin isn't supposed to have the same "risks" but I've read horror stories about hydroquinone whilst googling.  So I'm scared to be using Mulberry extract. And what are everyones thoughts about Sepiwhite? I think that is a relatively new lightening ingredient and wonder if it's safe for long term. I've read good things about Sepiwhite, and I'd like to continue to use this serum because I love how soothing it is. But I never want to do more harm than good. Which I've done in the past by accident! |
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Thu May 10, 2012 8:20 am |
| Can arbutin containing products be used during pregnancy or breast feeding. I was using obagi nu derm but I had to stop I have trying to conceive . I was thinking to use obagi clear fx and blender without hydroquinone . I know I can't use blender during pregnancy cause it is suppose to use with retin a . I was thinking to use clear fx the one without hydroquinone during pregnancy or breasts feeding or thus is no no as well . I am hoping obagi contain alpha arbutin cause I heard this is better than arbutin. Can anyone please recommend niacinamide containing products that can help with my melasma . I have struggling with melasma for long time. I also heard about a product from Japan called sheishdo haku I think it contain teramiaxne acid ( I probably spelled that wrong) but it help with melasma. Dr. J can u please give your advice on this product obagi arbutin . Can those two be used during pregnancy and with your serum? Please everyone share your knowledge. Thank you all |
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Thu May 10, 2012 8:36 am |
| hazelwood160 wrote: |
| Can arbutin containing products be used during pregnancy or breast feeding. I was using obagi nu derm but I had to stop I have trying to conceive . I was thinking to use obagi clear fx and blender without hydroquinone . I know I can't use blender during pregnancy cause it is suppose to use with retin a . I was thinking to use clear fx the one without hydroquinone during pregnancy or breasts feeding or thus is no no as well . I am hoping obagi contain alpha arbutin cause I heard this is better than arbutin. Can anyone please recommend niacinamide containing products that can help with my melasma . I have struggling with melasma for long time. I also heard about a product from Japan called sheishdo haku I think it contain teramiaxne acid ( I probably spelled that wrong) but it help with melasma. Dr. J can u please give your advice on this product obagi arbutin . Can those two be used during pregnancy and with your serum? Please everyone share your knowledge. Thank you all |
I am re-posting these:
I started two threads that have a lot of information on what is and is not safe to use while pregnant and nursing.
Pregnancy Safe Skin Care
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45240&start=0
Ingredient information sites
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=39428
HTH |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat May 12, 2012 5:08 pm |
| egyptiangoddess wrote: |
Regarding safe lightening, I just started using a serum by MaryKay called TimeWise even complexion essence. I found it because I was looking at the list of "best lightening products" on Paula Begouns "beautypedia" site. And it was rated as one of the best ones without hydroquinone. It contains Niacinimide, Vitamin C, "Sepiwhite" (Undecylenoyl Phenylalanine)", Licorice extract and Mulberry extract.
This is the ingredients list:
Water, Propylene Glycol, Dimethicone, Isododecane, Glycerin, Niacinamide, Ascorbyl Glucoside, Triethanolamine, Betaine, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate, 1-Methylhydantoin-2-Imide, Undecylenoyl Phenylalanine, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide, Tocopheryl Acetate, Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate, Citrus Medica Limonum Fruit Extract, Cucumis Sativus Fruit Extract, Camellia Oleifera Leaf Extract, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Thymus Extract, Sanguisorba Root Extract, Morus Alba Bark Extract, Oenothera Biennis Seed Extract, Serine, Threonine, Proline, Arginine, Glycine, Alanine, Lysine, Glutamic Acid, Sodium Pca, Sorbitol, Polysorbate 20, Butylene Glycol, Laurenth-7, C13-14 Isoparaffin, Peg-12 Dimethicone, Polyacrylamide, Boron Nitride, Carbomer, Sodium Citrate, Disodium Edta, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben, Isobutylparaben, Mica, Titanium Dioxide
So I got it and am really liking it. It really helps my rosacea also. (Which I wasn't expecting.) I just wonder, are some of these ingredients safe? Like Mulberry extract and Sepiwhite. I worry about Mulberry extract because it contains Arbutin I think, even though it's a small amount, I know arbutin is linked to hydroquinone. Though Arbutin isn't supposed to have the same "risks" but I've read horror stories about hydroquinone whilst googling. So I'm scared to be using Mulberry extract. And what are everyones thoughts about Sepiwhite? I think that is a relatively new lightening ingredient and wonder if it's safe for long term. I've read good things about Sepiwhite, and I'd like to continue to use this serum because I love how soothing it is. But I never want to do more harm than good. Which I've done in the past by accident! |
Do you use any other Mary Kay products with the Essence? |
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Sat May 12, 2012 8:41 pm |
| zeldafire wrote: |
Please help me ... I'm in dire need of someone who could recommend me any effective product which could make these dark spots from my face and and from other somatic regions of my body disappear and which is relatively affordable .
Or if you have any more suggestions then please you're welcome . |
For marks from insect bites and new pimples, I suggest Centella asiatica, which is found in Madecassol cream 1%. Works wonders on fresh scars and is OTC. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 4:33 am |
kikid70, I think there's only two MaryKay products geared towards lightening, and the other is a Face Mask, which didn't seem that great. The only lightening leave on product they have I think is the Even Complexion Essence. It's like a serum I guess, quite watery. Definitely seems suitable for all skin types and hasn't caused me to break out. And it seems to really help my rosacea! (And it's definitely lightening some areas thus far.) I'm loving it so far but don't know much about Sepiwhite and Mulberry extract.  |
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Sun May 13, 2012 4:42 am |
zeldafire, the only things I can think of are:
-NIA24 products, specifically the "Depigmentation Spot Repair"
-Olay Discoloration Concentrate
-A DIY Vitamin C Serum?
-Avalon Organics Vitamin C Vitality Facial Serum (Which got a good review on the "allaboutskinlightening" website)
-Perhaps spot treat with an AHA product?
-MaryKay Even Complexion Essence. (Just started using this.)
-NeoStrata Vitamin C Concentrate capsules. (10% LAA and is supposed to be stable?)
You could try spot treating with any of those. That's all I can think of! |
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