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Sat May 05, 2012 10:47 pm  |
Hi guys,
I need advice!
48 yo - normal skin, huge pores
AM Routine:
clarisonic + cetaphil
zinc oxide sunscreen
PM
OCM + microfiber cloth ( 2 years)
facial steamer (1.5 years)
Retin-A
Without using facial steamer, it takes me a good 30 minutes every day (sometimes 45 mins) to remove countless & deeply-buried sebum plugs from my skin EVERYDAY.
I really don't know the reason why I have so many sebum plugs; although I have using OCM (polysorbate 80 + oils) for 2 years; it still cannot make my skin clean.
When I stop using facial steamer for a week or two, I find heavy layer of dead & rough skin on my skin at the end of the day and need to take 30 mins to remove them.
A couple of months ago, I had done an experiment of not using the steamer for few weeks, afterwards, it took me more than a month to make my face skin by using steamer (15 mins every night after OCM).
If I incorporate steamer in my cleansing process, I only need few minutes to remove the sebum plugs.
After reading the thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45570&highlight=
I do worry that the heat generated from the steam is breaking down collagen & elastin of my skin.
If I don't use the steamer, my face is in a mess! |
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Sat May 05, 2012 10:56 pm |
| Wow, that's a lot of steaming. I heard it should be done only once a month on very oily skin. I think oils from OCM may be causing the plugs. Try stopping it and see what happens. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 11:38 pm |
Hi Gosha & Darkmoon,
Thx for your prompt reply and advice of OCM.
I have used Cromollient SCE & Olive Oil PEG-7 Esters as emulsifier too & am inclined to believe that emulsifier may not be the culprit.
I remember that I did have sebum plugs before incorporating OCM into the cleansing procedure; at that time, I did know how to deal with them.
Do you think that Retin-A is the root cause? |
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Sun May 06, 2012 2:28 am |
| Gosha wrote: |
| I think oils from OCM may be causing the plugs. Try stopping it and see what happens. |
I tend to agree with this.
You should not have a heavy layer of dead skin at the end of each day just because you didn't steam, especially if you have been using retin-a for a while. I'm thinking either what ever oils you are using just don't agree with your skin or they are not being fulled rinsed off and are buffering retin-a. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 3:14 am |
| Quote: |
AM Routine:
clarisonic + cetaphil
zinc oxide sunscreen
PM
OCM + microfiber cloth ( 2 years)
facial steamer (1.5 years)
Retin-A |
What are you using for serums/ moisturizers?
RetinA I doubt is the problem.
Are you breaking out at all? Dry / oily zones?
Details. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 06, 2012 5:01 am |
Enlarged pores could be down to the clogging and/ or dehydration. Dead skin can also denote dehydration, producing too much sebum and/ or too much skin could be a sign of irritation. Your routine does sound quite harsh.
How long have you had this problem, since puberty or later? Which oils are you using? Which exfoliating method takes you 30 minutes? What method are you using to extract the clogs? What is your diet like, especially your intake of oily fish and other sources of essential fatty acids? As DragoN asked, what are you using for a moisturiser? |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 5:41 am |
| I think it might be your zinc oxide sunscreen. Flaky/ dead skin + lots of plugs sounds like dehydration. High % zinc oxide can dehydrate, if the base is not emollient enough to counter. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:02 am |
All,
I don't use any moisturizer during the day /night. While, I seldom have pimples.
From time to time, I make DIY LAA 5% serum (with 5% squalene) or purchase CHAS from SkinActives, then Shiseido or Sofina zinc oxide sunscreen.
Hmmm...it seems to me that I should incorporate moisturizer into my regime. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:42 am |
I'm wondering after you OCM, and exfoliate for 30 minutes, and steam, how stripped does your skin feel of oil?
Our bodies are designed to kick in and fix things. If you are stripping your skin of every bit of evidence of natural oils, you will make more.
I have a feeling you need to back off over processing your skin. Which is likely to feel terrible for a month or two, until your skin quits pumping out excess amounts of sebum. |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:47 am |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
I'm wondering after you OCM, and exfoliate for 30 minutes, and steam, how stripped does your skin feel of oil?
Our bodies are designed to kick in and fix things. If you are stripping your skin of every bit of evidence of natural oils, you will make more.
I have a feeling you need to back off over processing your skin. Which is likely to feel terrible for a month or two, until your skin quits pumping out excess amounts of sebum. |
I agree, as much as I love OCM that is a long time to be massaging!
OCM is a process of cleansing and not meant to remove all natural sebum, the clogged pores will resolve in time with patient and gentle use! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:49 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
All,
I don't use any moisturizer during the day /night. While, I seldom have pimples.
From time to time, I make DIY LAA 5% serum (with 5% squalene) or purchase CHAS from SkinActives, then Shiseido or Sofina zinc oxide sunscreen.
Hmmm...it seems to me that I should incorporate moisturizer into my regime. |
L-AA is another irritant in your routine. Both Shiseido and Sofina use chemical sunscreens as well as zinc. Can you respond to my queries?
"How long have you had this problem, since puberty or later? Which oils are you using? Which exfoliating method takes you 30 minutes? What method are you using to extract the clogs? What is your diet like, especially your intake of oily fish and other sources of essential fatty acids?" |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 8:00 am |
| Quote: |
| I have a feeling you need to back off over processing your skin. Which is likely to feel terrible for a month or two, until your skin quits pumping out excess amounts of sebum. |
Tend to agree. Less is more with some things. Cleansing is one of them.
AM clarisonic and cetaphil?
Summer2004...I splash water and that's it. Slap on whatever jungle juice I am using and SS and go. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 06, 2012 8:50 am |
| circus wrote: |
| I think it might be your zinc oxide sunscreen. Flaky/ dead skin + lots of plugs sounds like dehydration. High % zinc oxide can dehydrate, if the base is not emollient enough to counter. |
Agree. I have had that problem with some zinc sunscreens. They can cause the flaky skin. When I tried the OCM with polysorbate and oils, it left my skin an irritated mess with clogged pores, so you may want to change up something with your cleansing. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 1:39 pm |
| summer2004 wrote: |
From time to time, I make DIY LAA 5% serum (with 5% squalene) or purchase CHAS from SkinActives, then Shiseido or Sofina zinc oxide sunscreen.
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You're putting an oil into your water based L-AA serum? The two don't mix well together. What recipe do you use? |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:35 am |
I do appreciate the feedback and concerns of each of you. Much Obliged!
| summer2004 wrote: |
| ......I don't use any moisturizer during the day /night....... |
In fact, I had been using moisturizer for 6 months in the morning from last Sep 2011 to Mar 2012. During this period, I also found my pores got clogged as well. Thus, with or without moisturizing may not be the main cause.
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
......
"How long have you had this problem, since puberty or later? I only started my skincare routine 3 years; before 2009, I did nothing: just used water to cleanse my face in am & pm, no sunscreen etc. Which oils are you using? 15% Poly80, 15% grapeseed oil, 15% castor oil & 55% sunflower oil.Which exfoliating method takes you 30 minutes? Just OCM What method are you using to extract the clogs? Nothing other OCM. What is your diet like, especially your intake of oily fish and other sources of essential fatty acids?" I would say a balance of carbohydrate + greens; I take 1000mg fish oil in pm & 4 mg astaxanthin in the am. |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
......
You're putting an oil into your water based L-AA serum? The two don't mix well together. What recipe do you use? |
I use Kassy's jojoba oil recipe; instead of jojoba, I use squalene.
4 friends of mine are using the same sunscreens as I do but they don't have any sebum plug issue. That said, none of them is using Retin-A. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:42 am |
| Summer what Retin A are you using, some members have had issues with the base of the cream, if I recall the generic cream from mail order sources (online pharmacies)? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:52 am |
Darkmoon,
I use the authentic 0.05% Retin-A. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:55 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
Darkmoon,
I use the authentic 0.05% Retin-A. |
Just stabbing in the dark to some extent, but maybe the cream is too heavy for your skin? Can you tolerate the micro gel? It is time released so not as irritating/drying as the regular gel, it might make a difference? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 7:57 am |
| Quote: |
| In fact, I had been using moisturizer for 6 months in the morning from last Sep 2011 to Mar 2012. During this period, I also found my pores got clogged as well. Thus, with or without moisturizing may not be the main cause. |
What's in the moisturizer? Could be an ingredient SNAFU with your skin.
The first several months of OCM, my skin was in a horrible state, but after that...nothing. Still now. Calm and dead boring. I like it like that.  |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:06 am |
Dragon,
Here you are:
Aqua (water), simmondsia chinensis (jojoba) seed oil, ethylhexyl stearate, macadamia ternifolia seed oil, sorbitol, sodium stearoyl lactylate, faex (yeast) extract, glyceryl stearate, butyrospermum parkii (shea butter), phenoxyethanol, brassica campestris (rapeseed) sterol, panthenol, benzyl alcohol, potassium cetyl phosphate, magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, tocopheryl acetate, ceramide 3, arginine, citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) fruit extract, sodium hyaluronate, aroma (fragrance), xanthan gum, ceramide 6, benzyl benzoate, ascorbyl palmitate, hydrogenated palm glycerides citrate, tocopherol, linalool, mica, limonene, lecithin, Cl 77491 (iron oxides) |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:09 am |
Darkmoon,
I cannot get access to Retin-Micro and don't feel like buying it from ADC either.
I may use Retin-A every other night to see if I can see any improvement. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:12 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
I do appreciate the feedback and concerns of each of you. Much Obliged!
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
......
"How long have you had this problem, since puberty or later? I only started my skincare routine 3 years; before 2009, I did nothing: just used water to cleanse my face in am & pm, no sunscreen etc. Which oils are you using? 15% Poly80, 15% grapeseed oil, 15% castor oil & 55% sunflower oil. Which exfoliating method takes you 30 minutes? Just OCM What method are you using to extract the clogs? Nothing other OCM. What is your diet like, especially your intake of oily fish and other sources of essential fatty acids?" I would say a balance of carbohydrate + greens; I take 1000mg fish oil in pm & 4 mg astaxanthin in the am. |
I use Kassy's jojoba oil recipe; instead of jojoba, I use squalene.
|
There is little to nothing in your skincare routine that is soothing/ healing/ anti-inflammatory or helps repair the the skin barrier: It's all aggressive with several different methods of exfoliating. IMO you may well be over stimulating your sebaceous glands and/ or causing inflammation at the cellular level. Your skin is trying to protect itself by bolstering the stratus corneum and producing more sebum. Squalene or squalane? Different animals: squalene is highly comedogenic (pore blocking).
Cetaphil is not that gentle and you are scrubbing it into your skin with the Clarisonic. IMO switch to CeraVe and back off on the Clarisonic - you don't need that level of cleansing after a night's sleep. Steamer again stimulates sweat and sebum production, both sweat and sebum can irritate the skin. Retin-A and L-AA are both irritant and, being acids, both have exfoliating properties.
OCM - half an hour of massage is too much, back right off to five minutes. As you have Polysorbate you will be able to limit your microfibre cloth. As I understand it, it is very easy to overdo the exfoliation with a microfibre cloth so maybe back off with this too. *Some* sunflower seed oils are very high in oleic acid which research has linked with abnormal keratinisation (production of cells of the skin barrier) and irritancy in acne so you might switch to a low oleic oil.
IMO increase your intake of fish body oils to 2-3g of combined EPA and DHA per day - you may want to purchase a triple strength oil so you aren't taking too many capsules. The ration of O-3s to O-6s in the diet is critical and the Western diet is skewed heavily in favour of pro-inflammatory O-6s. This affects the composition of your sebum which, in turn, affects clogging. Be sure not to eat any sugar or white/ refined carbohydrates, these encourage inflammation and excess sebum production. The human body actually needs fruits and veggies in the full rainbow of colours for optimum health - yellow/ orange, red, black/ purple and green.
HTH!  |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:13 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
Darkmoon,
I cannot get access to Retin-Micro and don't feel like buying it from ADC either.
I may use Retin-A every other night to see if I can see any improvement. |
I understand, as I said it was a stab in the dark! Let us know how your every other night works out!
It may be something in the moisturizer you are using? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 07, 2012 8:21 am |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
......There is little to nothing in your skincare routine that is soothing/ healing/ anti-inflammatory or helps repair the the skin barrier: It's all aggressive with several different methods of exfoliating. IMO you may well be over stimulating your sebaceous glands and/ or causing inflammation at the cellular level. Your skin is trying to protect itself by bolstering the stratus corneum and producing more sebum. I agree.
Squalene or squalane? Different animals: squalene is highly comedogenic (pore blocking). It should be squalane.
Cetaphil is not that gentle and you are scrubbing it into your skin with the Clarisonic. IMO switch to CeraVe and back off on the Clarisonic - you don't need that level of cleansing after a night's sleep. Will do. Steamer again stimulates sweat and sebum production, both sweat and sebum can irritate the skin. Retin-A and L-AA are both irritant and, being acids, both have exfoliating properties.
OCM - half an hour of massage is too much, back right off to five minutes. If I don't use the steamer, I need to spend at least 30 mins to remove the sebum plugs and heavy layer of the dead skin. As you have Polysorbate you will be able to limit your microfibre cloth. As I understand it, it is very easy to overdo the exfoliation with a microfibre cloth so maybe back off with this too. *Some* sunflower seed oils are very high in oleic acid which research has linked with abnormal keratinisation (production of cells of the skin barrier) and irritancy in acne so you might switch to a low oleic oil. I will change to Olive oil and Jojoba then, thx for reminding me!
IMO increase your intake of fish body oils to 2-3g of combined EPA and DHA per day - you may want to purchase a triple strength oil so you aren't taking too many capsules. The ration of O-3s to O-6s in the diet is critical and the Western diet is skewed heavily in favour of pro-inflammatory O-6s. This affects the composition of your sebum which, in turn, affects clogging. Be sure not to eat any sugar or white/ refined carbohydrates, these encourage inflammation and excess sebum production. The human body actually needs fruits and veggies in the full rainbow of colours for optimum health - yellow/ orange, red, black/ purple and green.
HTH! |
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