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Thu May 17, 2012 9:32 am  |
| bethany wrote: |
| packratmack wrote: |
bethany, a Lyapko Roller is a lightweight tool for you. You have used the heavy artillery. I'm not sure how much it will prep your skin. But, it is a nice tool to have. I think it's very stimulating and pleasant to use. Just the opposite of the dread I feel right before the dermaroller hits my face. I have to do a mental prep before rolling. Like a boxer, before he gets into the ring. |
Pack, it has been years since I rolled, and I can barely tolerate a .25mm.  I am hoping the Lyapko will help me get mentally prepared too, and not dread the dermaroller so much, lol. |
Well, as I mentioned previously, I love the Lyapko not just because it is helping to gently firm my skin, but also because I love the feeling of it across my skin. I'm not sure if it's from the materials or the acupressure points it hits... But I literally feel a wave of relaxation when I use it... and I use it everywhere, even across my lips, and as close to my eyes as I can... I give it a good five minutes twice a day. Not that it's always comfortable (esp on the sensitive skin of the forehead) but in the slight pain, there is a joy. Weird, but that's how it works for me.
When I dermaroll I definitely feel less pain now... but not the joyful energy wave... so there's a difference. It's nice to have both devices. |
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43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Sun May 20, 2012 4:05 am |
well my book has arrived 
Really quick I can't quite believe it, I have nearly read it all . It is quite comprehensive and seems to be for practioners, but also written in an accessible style for (puddings like me!)
He writes his protocol for medical needling and cosmetic needling very interesting and clearly separates them . He seems to regard anything from .5mm upwards to be medical needling and anything below .5 to be cosmetic needling.(which in his opinion patients can do themselves)
He also states medical needling should be done only every 30 days ,but cosmetic can be done roughly 7 days following a medical needling and with the aim of a daily needling with a view for product penetration.
He seems to feel that needling is only part of the skin rejuvenation process and only partially successful if you don't accompany it with the correct nutrients both internal and topical.
He also has case studies with some pics, which I think are realistic also making the obvious point that this is a treatment programme that takes place over time.
It its a great book I confess I have skimmed over a lot of the technical stuff at the beginning and probably come across as really terribly muddled.
I think I am getting a much better clearer idea of how to plan my rolling programme and now need to get my products together and to use them in the right way to make sure I am getting the best out of this.
It is quite funny getting this book now as it has just confirmed my idea that laser treatment at least for my skin type(olive, mixed asian /english, sensitive) isn't really a good idea.
I had been considering the PLillips Re aura as a derma rolling alternative (trying to avoid the 1mm pain) Now that I have a better understanding I am going to bin that idea and stick with the rolling!
NOw I just need lots onb Emla, oh and where"s my bottle of vino?
Sorry for the long post
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_________________
46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Sun May 20, 2012 2:12 pm |
My book came yesterday (afternoon) so I haven't gotten into it just yet, but it shocked me a bit! it is a rather small paperback considering the price? 
I am glad you did a review, it at least sounds like it is worth reading! 
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
well my book has arrived
Really quick I can't quite believe it, I have nearly read it all . It is quite comprehensive and seems to be for practioners, but also written in an accessible style for (puddings like me!)
He writes his protocol for medical needling and cosmetic needling very interesting and clearly separates them . He seems to regard anything from .5mm upwards to be medical needling and anything below .5 to be cosmetic needling.(which in his opinion patients can do themselves)
He also states medical needling should be done only every 30 days ,but cosmetic can be done roughly 7 days following a medical needling and with the aim of a daily needling with a view for product penetration.
He seems to feel that needling is only part of the skin rejuvenation process and only partially successful if you don't accompany it with the correct nutrients both internal and topical.
He also has case studies with some pics, which I think are realistic also making the obvious point that this is a treatment programme that takes place over time.
It its a great book I confess I have skimmed over a lot of the technical stuff at the beginning and probably come across as really terribly muddled.
I think I am getting a much better clearer idea of how to plan my rolling programme and now need to get my products together and to use them in the right way to make sure I am getting the best out of this.
It is quite funny getting this book now as it has just confirmed my idea that laser treatment at least for my skin type(olive, mixed asian /english, sensitive) isn't really a good idea.
I had been considering the PLillips Re aura as a derma rolling alternative (trying to avoid the 1mm pain) Now that I have a better understanding I am going to bin that idea and stick with the rolling!
NOw I just need lots onb Emla, oh and where"s my bottle of vino?
Sorry for the long post
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun May 20, 2012 11:36 pm |
I spent the afternoon skimming through the book and must now agree with 10Sylvia5's assessment!
It is worth the price IMHO! I am happy I decided to purchase it!!!!
Thanks again for reviewing! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 21, 2012 4:54 am |
DM
any time thanks for reporting back needed to read that after today |
_________________
46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Mon May 21, 2012 6:28 am |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
DM
any time thanks for reporting back needed to read that after today |
Poor sweetie,
I read about your day I guess I shouldn't tell you the challenges don't get easier just different?
Back to the book, I need to read it in full, but from what I have it is an excellent choice! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 21, 2012 8:58 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
DM
any time thanks for reporting back needed to read that after today |
Poor sweetie,
I read about your day I guess I shouldn't tell you the challenges don't get easier just different?
Back to the book, I need to read it in full, but from what I have it is an excellent choice! |
I feel a lemming coming on for that book!! Can either of you tell me what's the best way to prep the skin prior to rolling? What I've been doing is swiping my skin with alcohol... but... is there any mention of using ozone before, during and even after to reduce the chances of any skin infections?
I have to admit that the woman who has flesh eating bacteria freaks me out (poor soul). She got a gash in her leg but now has lost her hands and at least one foot... I couldn't help but flash on the needling briefly and wanting to make sure I was as safe as possible... (I know I'm over paranoid here but I just had to ask). |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon May 21, 2012 9:19 am |
I am expecting my copy any day. I have noticed that any book without a wide circulation is quite a bit more expensive, which, unfortunately makes sense.
When I do a deep roll, I am guessing I bleed as much as Bethany, given her photos. Also, afterward, I also get those tiny red pin prick bruises all over my face and they go away in a few days.
Unfortunately, I think to be effective, the roller has to be pushed into the skin...just the same as the professional practitioner would
BFG |
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Mon May 21, 2012 10:30 am |
http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2008/04000/Percutaneous_Collagen_Induction_Therapy__An.46.aspx
Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity
Abstract
Background: Skin laxity, rhytides, and photoaging are generally treated by ablative procedures that injure or destroy the epidermis and its basement membrane, at least in the beginning, and subsequently lead to fibrosis of the papillary dermis. The ideal treatment would be to preserve the epidermis and promote normal collagen and elastin formation in the dermis. Percutaneous collagen induction takes us closer to this ideal.
Methods: The authors performed a retrospective analysis of 480 patients in South Africa and Germany with fine wrinkles, lax skin, scarring, and stretch marks treated with percutaneous collagen induction using the Medical Roll-CIT to produce tighter, smoother skin. Most patients had only one treatment, but some have had as many as four treatments. Patients were prepared with topical vitamin A and C cosmetic creams for a minimum of 4 weeks preoperatively.
Results: On average, patients in Germany rated their improvement between 60 and 80 percent better than before the treatment. Histologic examination was carried out in 20 patients and showed a considerable increase in collagen and elastin deposition at 6 months postoperatively. The epidermis demonstrated 40 percent thickening of stratum spinosum and normal rete ridges at 1 year postoperatively.
Conclusions: Percutaneous collagen induction was started in 1997 and has proved to be a simple and fast method for safely treating wrinkles and scars. As opposed to ablative laser treatments, the epidermis remains intact and is not damaged. For this reason, the procedure can be repeated safely and is also suited to regions where laser treatments and deep peels cannot be performed.
Greater Collagen Deposition with the Microneedle Therapy System Than with Intense Pulsed Light
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1524-4725.2011.01882.x/full
Title: Micro Needling and Injecting Platelet Rich Plasma to Enhance Collagen Synthesis and Skin Tightening.
http://www.hairphil.com/downloads/prp.pdf
Percutaneous Collagen Induction: Minimally Invasive Skin Rejuvenation without Risk of Hyperpigmentation—Fact or Fiction?
http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2008/11000/Percutaneous_Collagen_Induction__Minimally.29.aspx
#1. Sterilize rollers in 75% EtOH
#2. Shower
#3. Wipe face with EtOH
#4. Roll and curse.
#5. Wipe blood off with Sterile saline solution.
#6. Apply ludicrous amounts of active rich formulas. Currently AnteAge topped up with Jungle juice du jour.
#7. Done.
#8. 6 weeks later, repeat procedure. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Mon May 21, 2012 10:39 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
I am expecting my copy any day. I have noticed that any book without a wide circulation is quite a bit more expensive, which, unfortunately makes sense.
When I do a deep roll, I am guessing I bleed as much as Bethany, given her photos. Also, afterward, I also get those tiny red pin prick bruises all over my face and they go away in a few days.
Unfortunately, I think to be effective, the roller has to be pushed into the skin...just the same as the professional practitioner would
BFG |
That was my thought as well BFG,
I am sure smaller publisher and market the production expense is higher. It also has very good quality color glossy photos! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 21, 2012 12:03 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2008/04000/Percutaneous_Collagen_Induction_Therapy__An.46.aspx
Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity
Abstract
Background: Skin laxity, rhytides, and photoaging are generally treated by ablative procedures that injure or destroy the epidermis and its basement membrane, at least in the beginning, and subsequently lead to fibrosis of the papillary dermis. The ideal treatment would be to preserve the epidermis and promote normal collagen and elastin formation in the dermis. Percutaneous collagen induction takes us closer to this ideal.
Methods: The authors performed a retrospective analysis of 480 patients in South Africa and Germany with fine wrinkles, lax skin, scarring, and stretch marks treated with percutaneous collagen induction using the Medical Roll-CIT to produce tighter, smoother skin. Most patients had only one treatment, but some have had as many as four treatments. Patients were prepared with topical vitamin A and C cosmetic creams for a minimum of 4 weeks preoperatively.
Results: On average, patients in Germany rated their improvement between 60 and 80 percent better than before the treatment. Histologic examination was carried out in 20 patients and showed a considerable increase in collagen and elastin deposition at 6 months postoperatively. The epidermis demonstrated 40 percent thickening of stratum spinosum and normal rete ridges at 1 year postoperatively.
Conclusions: Percutaneous collagen induction was started in 1997 and has proved to be a simple and fast method for safely treating wrinkles and scars. As opposed to ablative laser treatments, the epidermis remains intact and is not damaged. For this reason, the procedure can be repeated safely and is also suited to regions where laser treatments and deep peels cannot be performed.
Greater Collagen Deposition with the Microneedle Therapy System Than with Intense Pulsed Light
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1524-4725.2011.01882.x/full
Title: Micro Needling and Injecting Platelet Rich Plasma to Enhance Collagen Synthesis and Skin Tightening.
http://www.hairphil.com/downloads/prp.pdf
Percutaneous Collagen Induction: Minimally Invasive Skin Rejuvenation without Risk of Hyperpigmentation—Fact or Fiction?
http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2008/11000/Percutaneous_Collagen_Induction__Minimally.29.aspx
#1. Sterilize rollers in 75% EtOH
#2. Shower
#3. Wipe face with EtOH
#4. Roll and curse.
#5. Wipe blood off with Sterile saline solution.
#6. Apply ludicrous amounts of active rich formulas. Currently AnteAge topped up with Jungle juice du jour.
#7. Done.
#8. 6 weeks later, repeat procedure. |
Sterile saline solution... is this something I can buy at say, Walmart? Or only online? |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon May 21, 2012 12:09 pm |
You can buy the cheap version at any drugstore like the saline nasal spray or here are instructions on going the homemade route.
http://www.craig.copperleife.com/health/saline.htm |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 21, 2012 12:17 pm |
Thanks! |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon May 21, 2012 12:17 pm |
yes, I use the cheapo no-brand saline solution from the drugstore - also used as I recall, to neutralize at home chem peels.
BFG |
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Mon May 21, 2012 12:18 pm |
| Is there any stinging with the saline solution? Not that you'd even care at that point with the needling finished! |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon May 21, 2012 12:59 pm |
| Luminosity wrote: |
| Quote: |
I checked Amazon and the book has not shipped yet, so if BFG gets it before I do hopefully she will review it!
If I do get it sooner I sure will let you know what if anything new shows up.
BTW I ordered the Lyapko roller from a seller off ebay and that is on it's way!
You and Keliu enabled that purchase, why didn't anyone tell me it looked like it was from the days of Woodstock?  |
LOL!! I love my Lyapko and since I am a child of the sixties, it all makes sense now!
My six year old is also starting to like my Lyapko (very lightly on his cheeks). Then again, he loves (and I mean loves) to wear my Frownies. I've taken to hiding them. Actually I switched to Furlese and love those even more. They are hidden too.  |
Mine arrived today and I am laughing at your six year old loving it, it is prickly!
Mine came from the Ukraine and all the instructions are in Russian!
I see the diagrams, but will look on the official site for more details! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 21, 2012 2:09 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Luminosity wrote: |
| Quote: |
I checked Amazon and the book has not shipped yet, so if BFG gets it before I do hopefully she will review it!
If I do get it sooner I sure will let you know what if anything new shows up.
BTW I ordered the Lyapko roller from a seller off ebay and that is on it's way!
You and Keliu enabled that purchase, why didn't anyone tell me it looked like it was from the days of Woodstock? |
LOL!! I love my Lyapko and since I am a child of the sixties, it all makes sense now!
My six year old is also starting to like my Lyapko (very lightly on his cheeks). Then again, he loves (and I mean loves) to wear my Frownies. I've taken to hiding them. Actually I switched to Furlese and love those even more. They are hidden too. |
Mine arrived today and I am laughing at your six year old loving it, it is prickly!
Mine came from the Ukraine and all the instructions are in Russian!
I see the diagrams, but will look on the official site for more details! |
Yeah, mine came from Russia too... The only way I know what I'm doing is from watching the videos on the site... but still... that only helps so much. I also read the description on the website and that helps. Mostly, I just roll for five minutes twice a day and call it good! |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Mon May 21, 2012 2:15 pm |
| Luminosity wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Luminosity wrote: |
| Quote: |
I checked Amazon and the book has not shipped yet, so if BFG gets it before I do hopefully she will review it!
If I do get it sooner I sure will let you know what if anything new shows up.
BTW I ordered the Lyapko roller from a seller off ebay and that is on it's way!
You and Keliu enabled that purchase, why didn't anyone tell me it looked like it was from the days of Woodstock? |
LOL!! I love my Lyapko and since I am a child of the sixties, it all makes sense now!
My six year old is also starting to like my Lyapko (very lightly on his cheeks). Then again, he loves (and I mean loves) to wear my Frownies. I've taken to hiding them. Actually I switched to Furlese and love those even more. They are hidden too. |
Mine arrived today and I am laughing at your six year old loving it, it is prickly!
Mine came from the Ukraine and all the instructions are in Russian!
I see the diagrams, but will look on the official site for more details! |
Yeah, mine came from Russia too... The only way I know what I'm doing is from watching the videos on the site... but still... that only helps so much. I also read the description on the website and that helps. Mostly, I just roll for five minutes twice a day and call it good! |
Thanks Luminosity.
That makes me feel better, I will do as you suggest and check the video and instructions on the site!
I already played with rolling it on my face and neck just to see hoe it feels! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon May 21, 2012 7:33 pm |
| Quote: |
| Is there any stinging with the saline solution? Not that you'd even care at that point with the needling finished! |
No. Nothing.
Can buy it at the pharmacy. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Mon May 21, 2012 8:58 pm |
If anyone needs translation from Russian - please, PM me and I will try to help.
I also like my Lyapko quite a bit, had not yet gotten to real rolls, but am contemplating.... |
_________________
Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Tue May 22, 2012 4:09 am |
well, my .25 mm roller arrived as did the environs
products and skin actives chas serum.
Needless to say I couldn't wait and rolled away
What astonished me was my skin was red and a little stingy
But I did roll in the chas serum and the environ hydrating serum
Does feel rather good now though, put hydrating serum and c quence4,and eye gel post roll ,then 45 mins later put on some zo skincare cream on for moisture .
So far so good, according to the "good book" I am intending to build up to 3 little rolls per week if I have time maybe 5times. But I think I should really have the weekend off Just waiting for the Essentia oil (environ)and Fawnies KNN serum to come and I think thats everything , oh and then I forgot superGHK every other day.The way this is going I should be looking younger than my puppies(10 weeks old) soon |
_________________
46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Tue May 22, 2012 4:21 am |
| forgot to say I am doing 1mm rolls probably every other month |
_________________
46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Tue May 22, 2012 8:37 am |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
well, my .25 mm roller arrived as did the environs
products and skin actives chas serum.
Needless to say I couldn't wait and rolled away
What astonished me was my skin was red and a little stingy
But I did roll in the chas serum and the environ hydrating serum
Does feel rather good now though, put hydrating serum and c quence4,and eye gel post roll ,then 45 mins later put on some zo skincare cream on for moisture .
So far so good, according to the "good book" I am intending to build up to 3 little rolls per week if I have time maybe 5times. But I think I should really have the weekend off Just waiting for the Essentia oil (environ)and Fawnies KNN serum to come and I think thats everything , oh and then I forgot superGHK every other day.The way this is going I should be looking younger than my puppies(10 weeks old) soon |
Sylvia,
I am intrigued by your serums. Can you list links as to where I read more about them (and/or even purchase some?). I am using my Super CP Serum and emu oil. But I am very curious about how to amp up the skin rejuvenation power! |
_________________
43, CPs, glycolic 15%, Safetox, Lyapko roller (love), HF, Love my Barre workouts and all things skincare! |
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Tue May 22, 2012 11:51 am |
luninosity,
Sorry for taking so long, think Ive got this right
1 Chas serum a vit c(MAP) + a whole load of antioxidants -- from Active FormulasUK (but skin actives us)
2 KNN serum another antioxidant with kinectin, nictinamide( I think) from myfawnieskincare
3 CQuence4 is a cream with vitA from Environ
4 A hydrating serum with hyalronunic acid from Environ
5 Eye gel with peptides from Environ
6 Vit C serum with VitE and ferulic acid Kassy's diy recipe
OH tonite SuperGHK cream from Skin Biology
Thats it I think probably far too much but its what Ive got just now and I think I must be an "throw it all into the mix" kind of a person. The trouble now is what is going to be THE ONE and what is rubbish I won't know
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Tue May 22, 2012 5:52 pm |
I can't stop playing with my new Lyapko roller, something about rolling this on the face is impelling! I strangely enjoy it
I want to find a manufacturer to make one with sharper, longer and thicker "spikes" because I know that would make one awesome meat tenderizer! I call first patent rights! |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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