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Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:00 am  |
Rapunzell - Thank you for your response. So this means that you are using the - ion/US/LED function (or program 2) for you results thus far. Have you (are you also using the clean program 1 ?)
And the F/M/Sq do have different settings - I think this is correct for all three (original F & Sq) http://lotts.cafe24.com/eng/en_fyola03.html
So you can see that there are 3 settings that utilize +/- ions & US. (2, 4 and 6)
I spoke with my DH last night at length regarding galv/US. (phD EE) He says theoretically the combo should definitely have more power than either separately. (no brainer)
He also said that he thinks the combo +/- ions and US is gimmicky & suspect esp since the ions have to be alternating (& this can be done separately if you do not have a device that combines them). If anyone has links to research showing that these settings do increase tissue elasticity and activate elastin and collagen as advertised please post. I am gathering as much info as I can prior to purchase. There are inexpensive devices available(relative to RK & Sq etc) but they DO not have the "combo" +- function.
In regards to the conducting gels - for US you only need water in the base. (most of the time I simply apply whatever serum/cream I am using at the time - LOL - and then just spray plain water as I go - for my US txs. Regarding galvanic DH says if you want a bit more conductivity - simply add a small amt of salt (NaCl or KCl. I think this conversation was had in the Pico thread & probably others.
HTH's!  |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:57 am |
| cabrita wrote: |
Rapunzell - Thank you for your response. So this means that you are using the - ion/US/LED function (or program 2) for you results thus far. Have you (are you also using the clean program 1 ?)
And the F/M/Sq do have different settings - I think this is correct for all three (original F & Sq) http://lotts.cafe24.com/eng/en_fyola03.html
So you can see that there are 3 settings that utilize +/- ions & US. (2, 4 and 6)
I spoke with my DH last night at length regarding galv/US. (phD EE) He says theoretically the combo should definitely have more power than either separately. (no brainer)
He also said that he thinks the combo +/- ions and US is gimmicky & suspect esp since the ions have to be alternating (& this can be done separately if you do not have a device that combines them). If anyone has links to research showing that these settings do increase tissue elasticity and activate elastin and collagen as advertised please post. I am gathering as much info as I can prior to purchase. There are inexpensive devices available(relative to RK & Sq etc) but they DO not have the "combo" +- function.
In regards to the conducting gels - for US you only need water in the base. (most of the time I simply apply whatever serum/cream I am using at the time - LOL - and then just spray plain water as I go - for my US txs. Regarding galvanic DH says if you want a bit more conductivity - simply add a small amt of salt (NaCl or KCl. I think this conversation was had in the Pico thread & probably others.
HTH's! |
OK I'm going to try to follow you here! I have not used the #1 clean program as of yet. The results I've had are only with program 2 for 5 minutes a day.
THOUGH after seeing that YouTube video I'm thinking 5 minutes of Program 2 then 5 minutes for serum penetration with just ultrasound. You can do each program for up to 5 minutes a day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=778-DGOwpls
A little confused by what your DH said? Stronger if the unit has all 3 modes BUT gimmicky? Can you explain. This unit has 5 modes. I can spell them out here if you'd like. And it also has 3 power settings for each mode.
LOVE what you are saying about just using a water base. Can it just be water? I've read that it can be. This on Truth In Aging site > "You should not use an ultrasonic device on bare skin – in order conduct the waves, you need at the bare minimum either water, a gel or a spray mist. "
Can you please explain really simply what liquid needs to be on the skin for the US mode? So appreciate it, getting confusing! I'd like to use a vitamin (whatever) serum with a spray of water? Yes?
I'm trying to remember what gel I used with the FaceMaster which is Galvonic and I think I used just water, too?
Thank you for this, such a learning curve! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:01 pm |
Am just ordering the Le Mieux gel >
http://www.modernsalon.com/news/Le-Mieux-O2-Calming-Gel-221214981.html
They said it's great for all sort of skin issues, very healing so might be nice to have it on hand anyway! Will use mainly for Galvanic mode - I think?! Not sure anymore if we need these gels . . .
What we have to remember is that companies make their the majority of their $$$$ on the gels, and serums because you have to reorder over and over and over again. Like a restaurant - they make far more money on alcohol than food, or a movie theater makes their money on the snacks.
That's where the mark-up is and by far the biggest profit. For me - want to careful not to buy into a sales pitch.
With my dermaroller I use a DIY Vitamin C, green tea, Vit. E serum. Works great! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:21 pm |
Hi Rapunzell- So re the mode/s - sorry that was confusing! What I was trying to convey was that the part that he thought was "gimmicky" was the simultaneous +- ions in the same mode (no matter which - F/M/Sq - there are 3 as I noted)since they are alternating & not actually simultaneous. (I should not have included US in the gimmicky part - )
Yes as far as the US or the galvanic you can use plain old water to drive your actives in. You can actually use oil based products with the US but apparently they may not penetrate as well. But water or water based on top - touching the transducer. We use a microcurrent device to heal all kinds of stuff (I had a cold sore last year sometime & killed it dead & haven't had another one since!) & use just plain ol' water!
Maybe that is a bit less confusing?! Hope so!
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:24 pm |
THANK YOU!!
This is what I've been trying to understand and you just explained it!  |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:46 pm |
Cabrita,
So . . . which mode is the best for serum penetration? In the video she uses the US mode. Does it make sense to put on the water base (or gel) and do level #2 (all 3 modes) for 5 minutes. Then apply the serum, with a spritz of water and use . . . just the US? OR US and LED? That way, we can leave the expensive serum on the skin for the day. No gel to have to wipe off.
Here are the modes:
1 = US and GAL
2 = US, GAL AND LED
3 = US and LED
4 = US only
5 = LED only
Thank you for your help! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:38 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
FYI that I received my Burnout Skin Fix gel today. I'll try it out tonight with the Merbe.
Also, my Sqoom gels (Med-RO and HyaGel) should be here by next Wednesday. |
Hi bethany, Can't wait to hear what you think of the HyaGel. I'm considering the cleanser too. Did you order from the Dr.Serene website? Can you tell me what kind of cleanser you use with your Merbe. Thank you. |
Hi Pack,
I did order from the Dr Serene website. Right now I am using the Fyola Cleansing and Massaging gel that came with my unit. I will probably use the Burnout Skin Fix after it is gone, since I don't think you really need a special cleanser. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:53 pm |
Thanks so much for the link above! Lots of info on there...check out the improvement in the NL folds on this clinical page:
http://lotts.cafe24.com/eng/en_beauty06_1.html
| Rapunzell wrote: |
Cabrita,
So . . . which mode is the best for serum penetration? In the video she uses the US mode. Does it make sense to put on the water base (or gel) and do level #2 (all 3 modes) for 5 minutes. Then apply the serum, with a spritz of water and use . . . just the US? OR US and LED? That way, we can leave the expensive serum on the skin for the day. No gel to have to wipe off.
Here are the modes:
1 = US and GAL
2 = US, GAL AND LED
3 = US and LED
4 = US only
5 = LED only
Thank you for your help! |
Rapunzell,
Check out the table at the very bottom of this link, and you will see the Fyola Vit C penetration tests using the different modes. You will want to use Modes 1 or 2 on your machine for the best results.
http://lotts.cafe24.com/eng/en_beauty06_2.html
ETA: Woot: they have research studies there too!!
http://lotts.cafe24.com/eng/en_beauty07_1.html |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:03 pm |
I'm SORRY, so confusing my name changes. This site is only letting me post a few times under Rapunzell and I have more questions! Hang with me -
Thank you Bethany - great info!
Question - It seems to me that the gels are made specifically to sit on top of the skin and not be absorbed. That's the whole point of them - to provide continuous lubrication (ie not sink in) So why spend a lot of money on a gel that doesn't sink in and will be washed off? Makes no sense to me. Use a simple, safe water-based gel or just water and spend money on a good serum only.
And my skin, which never happens, is breaking out. Has to be from the Rex Kara gel. So - I'll use just water and experiment with other really simple gels, sprays, water! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:41 pm |
I have been looking all over the internet for the Le Mieux Gel. The only places I found it for sale require you to call to order it. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:45 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
| And my skin, which never happens, is breaking out. Has to be from the Rex Kara gel. So - I'll use just water and experiment with other really simple gels, sprays, water! |
It might also be that the device actions are causing stuff deeper in the skin to move to the surface...I had some definite purging when I started using the Merbe. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:48 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
Hi Pack,
I did order from the Dr Serene website. Right now I am using the Fyola Cleansing and Massaging gel that came with my unit. I will probably use the Burnout Skin Fix after it is gone, since I don't think you really need a special cleanser. |
I agree with you about not needing a special cleanser. I used the Cerave cleanser when I used the RK for the first time. This way, I can put more money towards the important things, the actives. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:54 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Hi Pack,
I did order from the Dr Serene website. Right now I am using the Fyola Cleansing and Massaging gel that came with my unit. I will probably use the Burnout Skin Fix after it is gone, since I don't think you really need a special cleanser. |
I agree with you about not needing a special cleanser. I used the Cerave cleanser when I used the RK for the first time. This way, I can put more money towards the important things, the actives. |
Oh good!!! But are you worried about any of the ingredients in there? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:08 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
Oh good!!! But are you worried about any of the ingredients in there? |
I never did check the ingredients. I will now. I was really excited to start using my new device. Thanks for snapping me out of it. I needed that. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:16 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Oh good!!! But are you worried about any of the ingredients in there? |
I never did check the ingredients. I will now. I was really excited to start using my new device. Thanks for snapping me out of it. I needed that. |
LOL...I don't blame you one bit. Between your RK and your new Pico probes you are going to be aging in reverse!!!! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:31 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
Check out the table at the very bottom of this link, and you will see the Fyola Vit C penetration tests using the different modes. You will want to use Modes 1 or 2 on your machine for the best results.
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Bethany, do they specify anywhere which form of Vit C they used? The results do look impressive, but I'm still unclear about whether LAA is a good choice for US devices.
I'll probably opt for MAP if I can't find anything about LAA. |
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302 (Part one): http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=28855&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:33 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
I have been looking all over the internet for the Le Mieux Gel. The only places I found it for sale require you to call to order it. |
Below is where I got mine but she has been out of stock for awhile. Probably since I wrote about it on EDS. 
ETA: I know Christine Byer uses it for some of her microcurrent treatments. Might be worth checking with her to see if she sells it.
http://www.mytiffanygarden.com/eshop/inx_detail.asp?tcPageKind=detail&tcModeCode=1001 |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:42 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Check out the table at the very bottom of this link, and you will see the Fyola Vit C penetration tests using the different modes. You will want to use Modes 1 or 2 on your machine for the best results.
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Bethany, do they specify anywhere which form of Vit C they used? The results do look impressive, but I'm still unclear about whether LAA is a good choice for US devices.
I'll probably opt for MAP if I can't find anything about LAA. |
This Lotts study metioned using l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphoric acid
http://lotts.cafe24.com/eng/image/beauty/new/2005MORECULAR%20STRUCTURE.pdf |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:42 pm |
| Lowbrowscientist wrote: |
Bethany, do they specify anywhere which form of Vit C they used? The results do look impressive, but I'm still unclear about whether LAA is a good choice for US devices.
I'll probably opt for MAP if I can't find anything about LAA. |
What are your concerns about LAA? Aren't the vitamin C supplements we take orally LAA? Also, it is my understanding that if you take too much Vitamin C it just gets expelled in your urine. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:03 pm |
Your welcome Bethany! Thanks to you for providing all the WONDERFUL info that you do!
My brain is not home today (& frankly many days - one of the reasons I don't often post)& I saw the research on that link BUT I can't see any that looked at US plus galvanic + and - ions simultaneously as available on F/M/Sq. If I have overlooked this could you please post a link. I would like to somehow resolve this to the extent that I/we can cause it'd be nice not to have to fork over for a Merbe!
Rapunzell - Guess you got your penetration answer with the links Bethany posted! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm |
I just realized since we KNOW Dr F has gotten great results with his Ionzyme machine - we just need the specs & how the US/Galvanic is combined to know whether the more expensive versions are required to get the results we desire.
In looking closely at this photo (don't have a better one) it seems there are 2 heads - an US & a galvanic one. I wonder if that means the Ionzyme does NOT combine them but perhaps uses US 1st (my DH says this "opens the gate") & then goes for the big guns with the galvanic to really drive the actives "home". http://www.environ.co.za/for-professionals
Does anyone have this info? Bethany? |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:50 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
I have been looking all over the internet for the Le Mieux Gel. The only places I found it for sale require you to call to order it. |
I found a dealer in my area, she's sending me a bottle. Just email the company and send them your zip code - they'll help you get it.
BTW - I emailed this link at Tiffany Garden and she emailed back that I had to have license >
http://www.mytiffanygarden.com/eshop/inx_detail.asp?tcPageKind=detail&tcModeCode=1001 |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:51 pm |
| cabrita wrote: |
I just realized since we KNOW Dr F has gotten great results with his Ionzyme machine - we just need the specs & how the US/Galvanic is combined to know whether the more expensive versions are required to get the results we desire.
In looking closely at this photo (don't have a better one) it seems there are 2 heads - an US & a galvanic one. I wonder if that means the Ionzyme does NOT combine them but perhaps uses US 1st (my DH says this "opens the gate") & then goes for the big guns with the galvanic to really drive the actives "home". http://www.environ.co.za/for-professionals
Does anyone have this info? Bethany? |
Here is some information on Dr. F machine. Keep in mind this is being written by someone selling the machine and Environ products.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/documents/0000/0193/LNEAlookatultrasonicmachinesandesthetics01.07SS.pdf |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:09 pm |
| CookieD wrote: |
| cabrita wrote: |
I just realized since we KNOW Dr F has gotten great results with his Ionzyme machine - we just need the specs & how the US/Galvanic is combined to know whether the more expensive versions are required to get the results we desire.
In looking closely at this photo (don't have a better one) it seems there are 2 heads - an US & a galvanic one. I wonder if that means the Ionzyme does NOT combine them but perhaps uses US 1st (my DH says this "opens the gate") & then goes for the big guns with the galvanic to really drive the actives "home". http://www.environ.co.za/for-professionals
Does anyone have this info? Bethany? |
Here is some information on Dr. F machine. Keep in mind this is being written by someone selling the machine and Environ products.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/documents/0000/0193/LNEAlookatultrasonicmachinesandesthetics01.07SS.pdf |
And here is an overview of how they actually do the facial.
http://gemsofgorgeousness.com/beauty-rave-environ-facial/ |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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and I would definitely have the DH look it over...lots in there made no sense to me, lol.
