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Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:38 am  |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| ......Dr Fernandes says: ......Retinyl palmitate is also a photo-protective agent and can and should be used both morning and evening...... |
I was not aware of it, thx for sharing the info with us. |
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Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:47 am |
| I seem to remember there was something about retinyl palmitate in sunscreens? Some safety issue? |
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Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:54 am |
| Yes, there was. I think it was the EWG or some such organization that reported it. |
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Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:00 am |
| I recall that "debate" also and I do think we found many day creams contain a certain percentage of retinol. Even the AnteAGE does if using both products 2X per day as recommended! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:20 pm |
I believe that is the one, Thanks Havana!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:58 am |
Copied and pasted here from the AnteAGE thread:
In answer to a question by Bethany as to when to apply AnteAGE after rolling.
DrJ wrote:
| Quote: |
| The appropriate time is immediately after. Unlike any other active, a selected pattern of cytokines addresses the core of the damage response. They accelerate healing, suppress inflammation, and promote the non-scarring, non-fibrotic pathway of matrix genesis. |
The highlighted comments above seem to vindicate my thoughts on using Emu Oil after rolling. Not that I'm suggesting Emu Oil contains cytokines - rather that it accelerates healing and suppresses inflammation.
I'm still confused about whether suppressing inflammation and/or accelerating healing is beneficial in the whole CIT process. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:51 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
Copied and pasted here from the AnteAGE thread:
In answer to a question by Bethany as to when to apply AnteAGE after rolling.
DrJ wrote:
| Quote: |
| The appropriate time is immediately after. Unlike any other active, a selected pattern of cytokines addresses the core of the damage response. They accelerate healing, suppress inflammation, and promote the non-scarring, non-fibrotic pathway of matrix genesis. |
The highlighted comments above seem to vindicate my thoughts on using Emu Oil after rolling. Not that I'm suggesting Emu Oil contains cytokines - rather that it accelerates healing and suppresses inflammation.
I'm still confused about whether suppressing inflammation and/or accelerating healing is beneficial in the whole CIT process. |
I think your comments about Emu Oil are right but I'm also confused about the whole inflammation thing. I wonder if your body is able to heal itself better/quicker if it doesn't have to deal with inflammation and does that make the quality of skin remodeling better? |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:15 am |
Everything I have read says that inflammation is a critical part of the wound healing cascade during the first few days, so Dr. J's response conflicts with that. 
I am personally going to stick with what worked so well for me in the past (and what is in the Dr. S's book and Dr. F's protocol)...nothing that reduces inflammation in the first few days after a deep roll. I will not be adding AnteAGE until Day 5 or later.
But I think everyone should do what they feel works best for them, since everyone's skin and opinions are different. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:48 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
Everything I have read says that inflammation is a critical part of the wound healing cascade during the first few days, so Dr. J's response conflicts with that.
I am personally going to stick with what worked so well for me in the past (and what is in the Dr. S's book and Dr. F's protocol)...nothing that reduces inflammation in the first few days after a deep roll. I will not be adding AnteAGE until Day 5 or later.
But I think everyone should do what they feel works best for them, since everyone's skin and opinions are different. |
I think you're wise to stick with the recommended protocol. But I wonder where that leaves CPs?
This could be a question for BFG to ask DrS. "Can the application of certain topicals speed the wound healing process or do they negate it?" |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:10 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
I think you're wise to stick with the recommended protocol. But I wonder where that leaves CPs?
This could be a question for BFG to ask DrS. "Can the application of certain topicals speed the wound healing process or do they negate it?" |
In the book he suggests that CPs are applied at day 5 or later after a medical roll because of their impact on fibroblasts, and fibroblast activity begins about day 5.
He is also a proponent of them being applied daily with cosmetic rolls. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:20 am |
Given that DrS advises to apply ceramides for 3-5 days after rolling, my instinct to apply an oil might not be that crazy. Because oils contain ceramides. According to this chart, the highest percentage is found in Safflower Oil:
http://forum.blackhairplanet.com/archive/index.php/t-9278.html
I'm going to make a combination of Safflower, Vitamin E and Rosehip (Vitamin A) and add some Tetra C to make a perfect ceramide plus A, C and E oil to apply after rolling. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:23 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
Given that DrS advises to apply ceramides for 3-5 days after rolling, my instinct to apply an oil might not be that crazy. Because oils contain ceramides. According to this chart, the highest percentage is found in Safflower Oil:
http://forum.blackhairplanet.com/archive/index.php/t-9278.html
I'm going to make a combination of Safflower, Vitamin E and Rosehip (Vitamin A) and add some Tetra C to make a perfect ceramide plus A, C and E oil to apply after rolling. |
Keliu,
May I ask what type of A and C you will be using?
I am going to do the same type of mixture. I am thinking of using this for vitamin A: http://www.makingcosmetics.com/Anti-Aging-Agents/Vitamin-A-Microcaps-retinol-p327.html.
For vitamin C, I am thinking either Tetra C. Vitamin C (L-ascorbyl palmitate) http://www.skinactives.com/Ascorbyl-Palmitate-Vitamin-C.html.
Any opinions on Tetra vs Ascorbyl Palmitate? |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:39 am |
When I said Vitamin A - I meant the Rosehip Oil because it is a source of Vitamin A. I will be applying Retin-A separately.
The Vitamin C I use is Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate because it's oil soluble.
I forgot to mention that my Google search of Safflower Oil revealed it to be a pore un-clogger and is recommended for skin prone to acne. Seeing as how I suffer from blocked sebaceous glands, I think it will be good for me.
Now I'm thinking of throwing some CoQ10 into the mix - this could end up being a good post-rolling mixture. What does everyone else think? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:05 am |
That skinactives link seems to be defunct?
Dr. S seems to favor the MAP form of C, Dr. F seems to favor Tetra C....
..not sure of whether the studies favor one over the other..I know DragoN uses yet another (AAG?)and yet I don't know that anyone has fully explained why one form is superior to another.
Maybe be based on their personal preferences or cost issues?
Yes, I am gathering more questions for him, specifically regarding post-rolling issues, since I am a little confused by some of the info.
BFG |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:29 am |
BFG, if you are asking him, could you also ask about colostrum?
Would he advise pre- or post roll use of it? It's very anti inflammatory and soothing, but on the other hand dermarolling could be a great way to get those growth factors in. |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:44 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
Given that DrS advises to apply ceramides for 3-5 days after rolling, my instinct to apply an oil might not be that crazy. Because oils contain ceramides. According to this chart, the highest percentage is found in Safflower Oil:
http://forum.blackhairplanet.com/archive/index.php/t-9278.html
I'm going to make a combination of Safflower, Vitamin E and Rosehip (Vitamin A) and add some Tetra C to make a perfect ceramide plus A, C and E oil to apply after rolling. |
Keliu,
You may consider this complex.
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/sk-influx-v.html |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:34 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
That skinactives link seems to be defunct?
Dr. S seems to favor the MAP form of C, Dr. F seems to favor Tetra C....
..not sure of whether the studies favor one over the other..I know DragoN uses yet another (AAG?)and yet I don't know that anyone has fully explained why one form is superior to another.
Maybe be based on their personal preferences or cost issues?
Yes, I am gathering more questions for him, specifically regarding post-rolling issues, since I am a little confused by some of the info.
BFG |
The link directly to the product erg posted:
Retinyl Acetate (Vitamin A)
http://www.skinactives.com/Retinyl-Acetate-Vitamin-A.html |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:36 am |
Keliu,
As much as I like Rose hip seed oil, the Vit A claim doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Why not simply load your bases?
The addition of materials such as rosehip seed oil (Rosa aff. rubiginosa) from the slopes of the Chilean Andes will bring solutions to scarring,12 ulceration,13 and pigmentation effects. The presence of retinoic acid is disputed, however. An analysis sheet from Siber Hegner on “Aceite de Rosa mosqueta Lote 107” by SGS Chile Ltda. states that the analysis of a batch of rosehip seed oil contained 0.83 mg of trans-retinoic acid/100 g of oil. This would explain quite conveniently many of the properties of this oil. Unfortunately, a study later carried out at King’s College London University using rosehip seed oil from other sources did not confirm these findings.
Much like the wheat germ oil/ macadamia nut as a source for all your Vit E in C serums. Wheat germ oil, a good batch? 2000 ppm, usually @ 1000 ppm Macadamia nut oil? 400 ppm..and mostly much lower.
| Quote: |
| .I know DragoN uses yet another (AAG?) |
I favor MAP and AA2G based on the independent studies over Tetra C.
With a bunch of holes in my skin, I'd prefer to fill them with, B3, CoQ10, Retinol, Genistein, Carnosine, NAG, AA2G, Lecithin, Vit E, ALA, Kinetin, GLA and a few others. Take advantage of the window of opportunity. When I do that, my skin will produce it's own ceramides. Collagen, elastin and all that anti aging wonder stuff. |
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:43 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
Given that DrS advises to apply ceramides for 3-5 days after rolling, my instinct to apply an oil might not be that crazy. Because oils contain ceramides. According to this chart, the highest percentage is found in Safflower Oil:
http://forum.blackhairplanet.com/archive/index.php/t-9278.html
I'm going to make a combination of Safflower, Vitamin E and Rosehip (Vitamin A) and add some Tetra C to make a perfect ceramide plus A, C and E oil to apply after rolling. |
Ingredients to die for may have some ready made product you may like.
C&E anti aging facial oil with Ascorbly Palmitate, rosehip seed oil, Vit. E or
CE&CoQ10 anti-oxidant serum or maybe
Revolution complete a,b,c,e |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:19 am |
Now I am confused again.
If we are using A C and E products after cosmetic rolling, then the only CPs we can apply would be the 2nd gen Cps, as Vit C is supposed to negate GHK CPs.
So Im stuffed for using cps then after rolling , as I am only using superGHK.
I dont really want to upgrade as rolling intensifies everything, and then i may be in for the Major Uglies  
Any other ideas  |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:27 am |
I use GHK as well - and love what copper peptides have done for my skin.
I am thinking about alternating. So, for example if I do 4 product penetration rolls a week then 2 of those would be an A,C,E serum (DIY more than likely) and the other two rolls would be GHK.
Not sure yet, just a thought I am tossing around.
If the channels stay open for 15 minutes, I am thinking that before the A,C,E rolls I could also perhaps use a light water based serum (like Osea Vitamin Boost, see ingredients below).
Aqua, Punica Granatum (Pomegranate) Extract*, Gigartina Skottsbergii Extract *, Wine Exract, Rubia Tinctorum (Madder) Root Extract, Montmorillonite (Trace Minerals), Allantoin, Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate (Vitamin C), Glycerin, Citric Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Lonicera Caprifolium (Honeysuckle) Flower Extract, Lonicera Japanica (Honeysuckle) Flower Extract
Thoughts?? |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:34 am |
erg
that sounds like a plan I think I will do that with my cosmetic rolls next week. 
Nice one
Thank you
Dont know why I didnt think of that( lack of sleep, what an excuse)
Thats why I come here  |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:45 am |
Me too! I learn so much here
I am thinking that uglies will be prevented because you are not rolling in CPs every day. |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:48 am |
| Yes, that makes sense, not sure about your serum though, maybe you use it post roll |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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