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Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:53 am  |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
Yes, that makes sense, not sure about your serum though, maybe you use it post roll  |
Yea, not sure about that. It would be before my oil based A,C,E DIY serum. I like the ingredients alot. I am also thinking about using that (the Osea Vitamin Spray) before AALS treatments in the morning. |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:36 pm |
Thanks everyone for your input.
Dragon - everything I've ever read about Rosehip Oil states that it is a source of Vitamin A. Maybe there is only a small amount but, regardless, it's not really an issue because I use Retin-A anyway. The Tetra C I have on hand - plus I also use LAA in the mornings.
If I can access the ceramides in the form of an oil - that appeals to me rather than having to formulate something. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:52 pm |
| Quote: |
| everything I've ever read about Rosehip Oil states that it is a source of Vitamin A. Maybe there is only a small amount but, regardless, it's not really an issue because I use Retin-A anyway. |
They all quote the same study by the producer, which was not supported by yet another. RetinA, is not converted in the skin to the precursor forms which is what Dr. Fernandes is referring to.
The study refers to 0.83 mg in 100 grams of RHO. By the time you are placing any of that on your skin, you are getting something in 0.00X % range...which is insufficient.
I like RHO it's a very nice oil, however I don't rely on it as a source of Vit A. |
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:15 pm |
Keliu: I question the validity of that chart, my gut instinct is someone has completely misread it, taking the title from one column and the percentages from another. 78% ceramides in any oil sounds highly unlikely: AFAIK plant oils are mostly fatty acids. IMO do your own research on PubMed or Google Scholar rather than relying on fifth or tenth hand information.
This is the only reference I have found to date on the vitamin A content of rosehip oil. TBH I don't see the point in using such a dilute form, your recipe would have far more flexibility if you used the concentrated active. My skin is irritated for a few days after a roll, sweat can sting for example. I can't imagine applying L-AA or Retin-A.
"Rosehip oil is the only vegetable oil, which contains natural tretinoin, the acid form of vitamin A also known as all-trans-retinoic acid or ATRA in quantities of 125mcg per every 100g. Shelf life is normally 6 months but Aromantic adds 0.5% vitamin E oil to our rosehip oils just after production, so the shelf life is extended to 2 years."
http://www.aromantic.co.uk/buy-rosehip-oil-with-05-vitamin-e-oil-organic-uk.htm
HTH.
ETA: this might be one source of the ceramides rumour. The table should be headed with
"One of the many characteristics of ceramides is the high levels of linoleic acid, an essential fatty acid, which supports healthy body, skin, and hair. The list below breaks down the amount of linoleic acid (and where you find LA, you often find cermides) in common oils and fats. These oils are great for moisture retention and smoothing the cuticle. Many of them may help boost your cermides naturally."
http://www.curlynikki.com/2011/06/ceramides-for-strong-healthy-natural.html
In turn the table is taken from here, Chinese Whispers at its best!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:19 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
Thanks everyone for your input.
Dragon - everything I've ever read about Rosehip Oil states that it is a source of Vitamin A. Maybe there is only a small amount but, regardless, it's not really an issue because I use Retin-A anyway. The Tetra C I have on hand - plus I also use LAA in the mornings.
If I can access the ceramides in the form of an oil - that appeals to me rather than having to formulate something. |
Somehow I do think you have been rolling long enough to make your own decisions about what you choose to use post roll!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:17 am |
| I worry that if we do a deep roll, say 1.0mm, and then we apply serum before the channels close, are serums with preservatives good for skin? |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:35 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
| I worry that if we do a deep roll, say 1.0mm, and then we apply serum before the channels close, are serums with preservatives good for skin? |
I would not use any even with a short roll, but everybody has to decide for themselves! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:22 am |
I've been rolling this into my skin because I couldn't seem to think of another unrefined oil that would be richer in carotenoids and Vitamin E:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm
So to this, I just add C ester and run with that.
I can afford to order the Environ products, but not sure if they would be any better and am always concerned about oxidation, etc.
This red palm oil is already highly stable just in it's natural state.
Perhaps this is another market waiting to be tapped, not already filled by SkinActives, Bulk Actives, etc. - a serum designed specifically to be used with rolling.
So many unfilled market niches for skincare...almost wish I was retired, lol.
BFG |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:48 am |
I just did another .25mm roll using environ hydrating serum , pre and post roll with cp serum about 30mins later topped off with infandolin.
No real stinging , so far so good.
DH home wed so no real rolling for next month.
(Although I may after a few "swift Halves" be overcome with the need for the "sadomasichistic" hole pricking   )
See how I feel and if I can hide it  |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:51 am |
Summmer
it looks ok but rather after a cosmetic, small roll rather than a deep roll
At least thats my gut feeling, perhaps some others may chime in. |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:07 am |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
Summmer
it looks ok but rather after a cosmetic, small roll rather than a deep roll
At least thats my gut feeling, perhaps some others may chime in. |
It may be good with some additives, I was thinking of adding RP, Tetra C, D3, and maybe some Astaxanthin to a good oil base.
The D3 is in pure Olive Oil 2000 IU per drop I got at Vitacost! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:10 am |
DM
that sounds like a yummy mixture, I think I might even try that as an environ alternative |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:21 am |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
DM
that sounds like a yummy mixture, I think I might even try that as an environ alternative |
Vita cost has the D3, their brand for 9.99 an oz. and it is buy one get one half price! With just 1 drop having 2000 IU it can't be beat for the price and it is in pure Olive Oil, no additives.
I just thought A&D ointment plus C sounded good to me!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:47 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
I've been rolling this into my skin because I couldn't seem to think of another unrefined oil that would be richer in carotenoids and Vitamin E:
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm
So to this, I just add C ester and run with that.
I can afford to order the Environ products, but not sure if they would be any better and am always concerned about oxidation, etc.
This red palm oil is already highly stable just in it's natural state.
Perhaps this is another market waiting to be tapped, not already filled by SkinActives, Bulk Actives, etc. - a serum designed specifically to be used with rolling.
So many unfilled market niches for skincare...almost wish I was retired, lol.
BFG |
Hi BFG, are you using the palm oil with short or long needles and do you think it is helping. I'm kind of like you that I could buy the Environ products but I'm open to other things. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:41 am |
In an odd coincedence, right after I posted my last message, I went to a hair appointment. As I was sitting in her waiting room, I opened a copy of Harper's Bazaar to find a Perricone ad for Vitamin C ester serum touting palm oil! LOL
Oil based Vitamin C, blended with palm oil seems smart to me since the palm oil is well known to be resistant to oxidation. Would appear to solve the Vitamin C dilemma.
Perricone wants over $100 for a small tube of this:
| Quote: |
| Water/Aqua, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Isopropyl Palmitate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Ceteareth-20, Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, Cyclopentasiloxane, Caprylyl Glycol, Cyclohexasiloxane, Fragrance/Parfum, Zinc Sulfate, Disodium EDTA, Limonene, Elaeis Guineensis (Palm) Oil, Tocotrienols, Sorbic Acid, Tocopherol, Sodium Hyaluronate, Linalool, Citral |
BFG |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:45 am |
My DIY serum doesn't contain any of the silicones or preservatives that Perricone uses. I keep it in the fridge all the time anyway and only make small batches.
I use it in the nights leading up to a deep roll, using a short needled roller for extra penetration. It leaves my face bright orange (quite lovely lol) but then again, I never leave my home while wearing it.
After a deep roll, I use the rest of the container until it's gone...then start the cycle over again when planning a deep roll.
In between rolls, I use all kind of potions, Retin A, Phyto-Estrogen, Glycolic, Eye of Newt, etc.
Peace, BFG |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:52 am |
And to think ascorbyl palmitate is as cheap as dirt, without any of the additives.
Roll or no roll, I use rosehip seed oil with ascorbyl palmitate and retinyl palmitate in the evening (my skin reacts to LAA something fierce), always thought asc. palm. was the cheapest oil soluble option - but as I see now, only if you DIY LOL |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:55 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
And to think ascorbyl palmitate is as cheap as dirt, without any of the additives.
Roll or no roll, I use rosehip seed oil with ascorbyl palmitate and retinyl palmitate in the evening (my skin reacts to LAA something fierce), always thought asc. palm. was the cheapest oil soluble option - but as I see now, only if you DIY LOL |
The oil blend DIY is not only a cheap option, it is also super simple! No need for a degree in chemistry required! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:02 am |
I do not precisely measure my oil based serum, I just add all individual ingredients in equal amounts to palm oil as the base.
This is not an emulsion.
Since the Environ products contain peptides and other ingredients, surely they are considered emulsions.
BFG |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:05 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
My DIY serum doesn't contain any of the silicones or preservatives that Perricone uses. I keep it in the fridge all the time anyway and only make small batches.
I use it in the nights leading up to a deep roll, using a short needled roller for extra penetration. It leaves my face bright orange (quite lovely lol) but then again, I never leave my home while wearing it.
After a deep roll, I use the rest of the container until it's gone...then start the cycle over again when planning a deep roll.
In between rolls, I use all kind of potions, Retin A, Phyto-Estrogen, Glycolic, Eye of Newt, etc.
Peace, BFG |
Hi BFG -
Maybe I have missed this, but how often do you do short needle rolls for penetration? |
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42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:47 pm |
As often as I can tolerate it, nearly every night, but I do mix up the topicals I use (see previous posts if curious).
BFG |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:12 pm |
| So is everyone now in agreement that an oil can be used post deep roll without negating the inflammation process? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:38 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| So is everyone now in agreement that an oil can be used post deep roll without negating the inflammation process? |
I know this is all new to me (have not done my first roll yet) but my thoughts are since all the actives recommended by Dr.F are oil soluble RP, Tetra C, I am sticking by what he recommends.
I am using my Retin A and LAA daily but for after rolling the above is what I am planning? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:02 pm |
I've gotten my courage up this past week and tried three short needle rolls. The first one was done with no prepping of a numbing cream, and boy - could I tell! The sneezing and watery eyes from rolling on my forehead and not being able to tolerate anything on my lip area is horrendous!
The 2nd roll was prepped with Emla and I was able to do a proper roll. No sneezing, and it was a little more tolerable around my mouth.
I've used a few different products with the rolls. CPs one time, Vit C/Retin A another. I also tried some AnteAge. Since I only had a little of the Anteage (sample size) I thought that would be a good time to try it.
I'm happy to say that my skin is looking pretty good right now. I plan on doing a deeper roll soon, and I hope I've prepped my skin enough to see good results from that with daily use of Vit C, Retin A and CPs (and the one roll w/ AnteAge). |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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