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Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:54 am  |
| Tiny wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| packratmack wrote: |
| Also, for disinfecting the roller after treatment he suggests using denture tablets. If I remember correctly someone said their roller was damaged doing this. I think they said they left the roller in the solution too long. He also says to soak the roller in Glutaraldehyde 2% after this. This is supposed to sterilize it. I have never heard of this before. I guess I will be sticking to alcohol. Is alcohol enough in order to properly disinfect rollers? |
I did denture tablets once and did NOT leave it long at all...cracked my roller head in multiple places.
I will actually not be reusing my rollers in the future....one use and they will hit the trash. |
Your picture shows you def do not have crows feet or lines that I can see at all! so whatever your doing, keep doing it! Can you buy disposable rollers? |
Some places do make disposable rollers, I would personally buy a quality brand and sterilize it. I am sure there are other throw away brands!
Example:
ZGTS Disposable Dermaroller
http://www.dermaroller-planet.com/zgts-disposable-dermaroller |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:00 am |
If you do ever consider rolling you may want to read owndoc (Sarah Vaughter's site) Here is one review she has done on rollers, but her site is a wealth of info! I also have some PDF's that I could email you from Environ and Dr. Fernandez! 
http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermaroller-review/ |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:38 am |
| Tiny wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| packratmack wrote: |
| Also, for disinfecting the roller after treatment he suggests using denture tablets. If I remember correctly someone said their roller was damaged doing this. I think they said they left the roller in the solution too long. He also says to soak the roller in Glutaraldehyde 2% after this. This is supposed to sterilize it. I have never heard of this before. I guess I will be sticking to alcohol. Is alcohol enough in order to properly disinfect rollers? |
I did denture tablets once and did NOT leave it long at all...cracked my roller head in multiple places.
I will actually not be reusing my rollers in the future....one use and they will hit the trash. |
Your picture shows you def do not have crows feet or lines that I can see at all! so whatever your doing, keep doing it! Can you buy disposable rollers? |
The Owndoc brand rollers are only $29...they are made by the same company as Dr. Roller, and I would not want to use anything of lower quality because the risk of damage (bent needles, etc.) is too high.
Plus, these rollers were originally designed to be disposable...not to be reused. That's why they are sealed in sterile packaging...if you could just easily disinfect before using, why would they waste money on making them sterile to begin with? (the documentation has been tweaked many times over the years and now says you can reuse)
That said, I think that they can be sterilized enough to be reused, but the needle dullness is a factor over multiple uses. Since I don't believe in rolling frequently, I am fine with not reusing them.
FYI...this does not apply to the short cosmetic rollers. The longer the needle, the faster they become dull. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:44 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
If you do ever consider rolling you may want to read owndoc (Sarah Vaughter's site) Here is one review she has done on rollers, but her site is a wealth of info! I also have some PDF's that I could email you from Environ and Dr. Fernandez!
http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermaroller-review/ |
DM, do you have any Dr. F or Environ articles that are not already included in the dermarolling articles/studies thread? if so, it would be great if you could add them to the thread so that everyone can benefit.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860 |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:34 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
If you do ever consider rolling you may want to read owndoc (Sarah Vaughter's site) Here is one review she has done on rollers, but her site is a wealth of info! I also have some PDF's that I could email you from Environ and Dr. Fernandez!
http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermaroller-review/ |
DM, do you have any Dr. F or Environ articles that are not already included in the dermarolling articles/studies thread? if so, it would be great if you could add them to the thread so that everyone can benefit.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860 |
I posted them at the time on various threads when requests were made Bethany, unfortunately I did not save those links as I downloaded the pdf's and have them on my laptop still. I have been printing them out and saving to a notebook.
I have emailed them to some who requested them by pm.
Sorry! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:39 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
If you do ever consider rolling you may want to read owndoc (Sarah Vaughter's site) Here is one review she has done on rollers, but her site is a wealth of info! I also have some PDF's that I could email you from Environ and Dr. Fernandez!
http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/dermaroller-review/ |
DM, do you have any Dr. F or Environ articles that are not already included in the dermarolling articles/studies thread? if so, it would be great if you could add them to the thread so that everyone can benefit.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860 |
I posted them at the time on various threads when requests were made Bethany, unfortunately I did not save those links as I downloaded the pdf's and have them on my laptop still. I have been printing them out and saving to a notebook.
I have emailed them to some who requested them by pm.
Sorry! |
I'm sure they are the same set we already have posted.
But if anyone wants just articles by Dr. F, this is the best source:
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/articles |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:44 pm |
I've just been reading in a magazine about Dr. Setterfield's Medic8. It contains EGF but apparently, they're from plants.
Now we have all been hearing from DrJ and Dragon about how useless plant stem cells are and how the whole plant connection is a total scam. I've got to say, I just can imagine a person of DrS's standing being involved with something that doesn't have the relevant research behind it.
http://www.dermacaredirect.co.uk/medik8-growth-factor-serum.html
The blurb in the magazine states:
"Using plant growth factor allows for a much purer form that also binds more effectively to human skin cells".
What are everyone else's thoughts on this? |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:50 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
I've just been reading in a magazine about Dr. Setterfield's Medic8. It contains EGF but apparently, they're from plants.
Now we have all been hearing from DrJ and Dragon about how useless plant stem cells are and how the whole plant connection is a total scam. I've got to say, I just can imagine a person of DrS's standing being involved with something that doesn't have the relevant research behind it.
http://www.dermacaredirect.co.uk/medik8-growth-factor-serum.html
The blurb in the magazine states:
"Using plant growth factor allows for a much purer form that also binds more effectively to human skin cells".
What are everyone else's thoughts on this? |
I have to wonder on that as Kinetin a favorite of Dragon's with I believe a thumbs from Dr. J is a plant cytokine?
Kinetin is a kind of cytokinin, a class of plant hormone that promotes cell division. Kinetin was originally isolated by Miller[1] and Skoog et al.[2] as a compound from autoclaved herring sperm DNA that had cell division-promoting activity. It was given the name kinetin because of its ability to induce cell division, provided that auxin was present in the medium. The story of the discovery of kinetin [2] is a fascinating example of the twists and turns of scientific discovery. Kinetin is often used in plant tissue culture for inducing formation of callus (in conjunction with auxin) and to regenerate shoot tissues from callus (with lower auxin concentration).
Wiki is only one source on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetin
1955: Kinetin Arrives. The 50th Anniversary of a New
Plant Hormone
Richard Amasino*
Department of Biochemistry, University of Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin 53706
http://www.biochem.wisc.edu/faculty/amasino/pdfs/1_Kinetin_Arrives.pdf |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:13 am |
| I posted on this on another topic, I remember. That it's a growth factor from a plant does not mean it doesn't do things in human skin (just think of soy isoflavones and other isoflavones having hormone action in humans for instance). There has been a lot of research on kinetin as a growth factor in various non-plant tissues. It's not the same as 'plant stem cells', but a purified growth factor that has been proven to stimulate cell proliferation etc. |
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:51 am |
This is what Futurederm has to say about plant stem cells:
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| It is therefore possible, from only small fragments of a plant’s meristem, to create multiple copies of the same plant, as well as to produce plant stem cell extract. Why should we care about plant stem cells? Well, plant stem cell extracts have already an anti-wrinkle effect on human skin (in vitro and in vivo). |
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/05/07/do-stem-cells-in-skin-care-products-really-make-a-difference/
She appears to think they are viable. I'm also confused about the exact difference between stem cell extracts and epidermal growth factors - but I admit I haven't been doing my homework! |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:08 am |
Meristem extract has been around for quite some time. In alternative medicine it's used for eczema and other skin irritations. I can get meristem extract quite cheap from my DIY suppliers here (made from meristem cells from oaks). But that is not the same as kinetin. Kinetin, as I understand, is most abundantly found in coconut endosperm. I don't know where I put the link, posted it somewhere here on this forum, an article on kinetin from a botanical point of view (so much more reliable than skin care sources, since they're not in it for the hype and money, I find).
I don't know about other growth factors and plant hormones that are present in stem cells and may have an effect on human skin, but I think kinetin isn't likely to be the only cytokinin that has skin effects on humans. |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:09 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| I don't know where I put the link, posted it somewhere here on this forum, an article on kinetin from a botanical point of view (so much more reliable than skin care sources, since they're not in it for the hype and money, I find). |
Not sure, but perhaps it is this link on Plant Hormones from the "Optimal Fibroblast Function" thread:
| Lotusesther wrote: |
It's a cytokinine, which is something not quite the same
http://employees.csbsju.edu/ssaupe/biol327/Lecture/cytokinin.htm
Basically, a plant growth hormone. Which brings us back to plant stem cells, meristem extracts (cytokinines are found in the hair roots of plants, where growth is continuous) et cetera. Kinetin is also found in coconut water and coconut milk. |
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:50 am |
I have not done the rolling but am tempted to jump on the bandwagon.
One question that still puzzles me is:
if we should suppress inflammation or let inflammation induce collagen production RIGHT after rolling (I mean needles of 0.5mm or above medical rolling).
If we let inflammation take its role; when we should apply topical actives like copper peptides on the skin. |
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:41 am |
| summer2004 wrote: |
I have not done the rolling but am tempted to jump on the bandwagon.
One question that still puzzles me is:
if we should suppress inflammation or let inflammation induce collagen production RIGHT after rolling (I mean needles of 0.5mm or above medical rolling).
If we let inflammation take its role; when we should apply topical actives like copper peptides on the skin. |
CPs are to be applied 5 days after rolling, per the book. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:10 am |
| I haven't read the book and have been rolling for a few years now. I rolled stretch marks, mainly, deep abdominal ones. I applied supercop afterwards, it itched like crazy. But I got huge improvements from each time I did this. I still need to do it more.. So I'm intrigued that I should be waiting for day 5 before I apply the cp's. Why the wait? And what to do for those 5 days? Is it something we could discuss here, or should I get the book? If its available in the UK? |
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:11 pm |
| catski wrote: |
| I haven't read the book and have been rolling for a few years now. I rolled stretch marks, mainly, deep abdominal ones. I applied supercop afterwards, it itched like crazy. But I got huge improvements from each time I did this. I still need to do it more.. So I'm intrigued that I should be waiting for day 5 before I apply the cp's. Why the wait? And what to do for those 5 days? Is it something we could discuss here, or should I get the book? If its available in the UK? |
Catski, supposedly 5 days into the wound healing cycle is best for CPs due to their impact on fibroblasts. A & C are the top actives to apply after a roll (as well as during the 3-4 weeks of prep before a roll).
Basically the book focuses on Dr. F's rolling protocol (Dr. S studied under him), but he also includes a nice overview on the wound healing cascade, rolling frequency/needle length, and what topicals should be considerered. It's everything spread across a gazillion articles rolled into one little book.
I misplaced mine, and actually just ordered a 2nd copy. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:11 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
| There is a chart in the guide which shows post treatment plan guidelines. For days 1-5 under clinical intervention it lists lymph drainage and photo modulation. The Dr. discusses LEDs in the guide and puts them at the top of his list of preferences for non-ablative treatments. So, I guess everyone who uses their LEDs after rolling has the right idea. |
Hi there, can I ask how soon and how much it's advised to use light after a roll? |
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Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:39 pm |
Hi Bethany,
Thx for the info!
Cheers! |
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:46 pm |
Bethany, in another post you mentioned needling your neck with a 1.5mm length. I was curious as to why you now use a 1.0mm needle length instead? Did you experience any negatives to using the longer needle, and d you feel the end results are the same when using the shorter 1.0mm.
Just curious...and thanks!
(p.s. when you refer to a
medical needle" are you referring to the 1.0mm length, as opposed to the product penetration needle length?) |
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:56 pm |
| What are the LED light units that many of you have mentioned as being indicated post medical roll? What exactly are they supposed to do, what brand/model is best, and where is a good palce to purchase? Thanks, all! |
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:55 pm |
| EthelM wrote: |
Bethany, in another post you mentioned needling your neck with a 1.5mm length. I was curious as to why you now use a 1.0mm needle length instead? Did you experience any negatives to using the longer needle, and d you feel the end results are the same when using the shorter 1.0mm.
Just curious...and thanks!
(p.s. when you refer to a
medical needle" are you referring to the 1.0mm length, as opposed to the product penetration needle length?) |
I originally started out with a 1.5mm roller, but after reading more and more research became convinced that longer did not mean better. The article I sent you via pm was one of the confirmations from Dr. F that 1mm was just as effective, and they are now suggesting that .5mm may be enough to stimulate collagen production as well.
In the book they define .2 or .3 as a pentration or cosmetic roll, and .5mm or higher as a medical roll. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:05 pm |
as always, thank you so much bethany!
(....i miss the thank you button!) |
_________________
42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:55 pm |
| This maybe a really stupid question so forgive if it is. But how long has this practice been around and studied. I have such a hard time wrapping my head around, wounding ones face to heal it and thus un-do other damage. I am Not knocking it, I promise, I just can't grasp how in the LONG run this is not doing more damage that will then need to be undone again. Or have studies been around long enough to show this is not the case? I saw Bethanys pics with the patches and her skins amazing, so again, I can't say a bad thing, but really curious. |
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Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:17 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| This maybe a really stupid question so forgive if it is. But how long has this practice been around and studied. I have such a hard time wrapping my head around, wounding ones face to heal it and thus un-do other damage. I am Not knocking it, I promise, I just can't grasp how in the LONG run this is not doing more damage that will then need to be undone again. Or have studies been around long enough to show this is not the case? I saw Bethanys pics with the patches and her skins amazing, so again, I can't say a bad thing, but really curious. |
You need to catch up on all the reading - start here!:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29860 |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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