Question about Aloe in Kassy's 15% Vitamin CEF serum???
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:39 am

Hello All,
I made a Serum using the recipe below, and I don't have SKB. I read that Aloe can be substituted, so that is what I did and I want to make sure that it is still going to work?
Here is the recipe: (I think this is one of Kassy's?)
What you need for 1oz C,E, Ferulic 15%;
- 2 glass shot glasses
- 1oz cobalt or amber dropper or pump bottle
- 1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
- 1/4 tsp (1 ml) Vitamin E (equals 1%)
- .5% of Ferulic Acid (1 good pinch)
- 2 tsp SKB (Sea Kelp Bioferment)
- 3 + 1/2 tsp of distilled water
- 1/2 tsp of vodka (don't laugh, you need it to dissolve the FA so it's not gritty, and it also keeps the ph low enough!)

I also added a tiny drop of Poly 80 because I have had trouble with it seperating in the past. (is this bad?)

Anyhow, the aloe gel that I used in place of SKB has the following ingredients:
Ingredients: Certified organic aloe vera barbadensis juice (gel), lactobacillus/arundinaria gigantea extract (bamboo), gluscose (perservative), carboner (thickner), aloe barbadensis leaf polysaccharides (certified organic aloesorb™), tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), retinyl palmitate (vitamin A), ascorbic acid (vitamin C), phenoxyethanol (perservative), glucose oxidase (and) lactoperoxidase, (perservative) and sodium hydroxide (ph adjuster).

The serum is separated in the bottle still, so I usually just shake it up before using.

I should also mention that the LAA dissolved very quickly because I heated up the water a tiny bit (which today I read and found out that you should never do)Is the LAA too degraded now?

Should I just start from scratch and order the SKB????? Help!

Any other recipe suggestions would be greatly appreciated also. I have also tried the CEF with jojoba/grapeseed but have the same issues.

free skin care · Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:37 pm

IMO you have two problems here - firstly you have chosen a recipe that is impossible to replicate, and secondly that you have messed about with that recipe by adding ten new ingredients.

You need to weigh your powdered ingredients because density varies widely from supplier to supplier and how the product is stored (how finely ground it is and how much air in the powder). You also need to adjust the pH of the finished serum to ~2.8 if you are using L-AA. I am very concerned there is no preservative in that recipe then you are adding 'food' for microorganisms in the form of aloe (carbohydrates) and glucose (a sugar/ carbohydrate); also you don't mention using sterile distilled water and I can't see how you would heat the water without contaminating it. A recipe with oil and water will always separate unless you use an emulsifier like your polysorbate 80 and a preservative will be even more important. Some thickeners/ gelling agents will be ineffective or go strange outside a strict pH range - IIRC carbomer doesn't like low pHs. Confused

Video tutorial of recipe which considers the science here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwnMxRL7J5w&feature=player_embedded

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:31 am

erica1981 wrote:

Hello All,
I made a Serum using the recipe below, and I don't have SKB. I read that Aloe can be substituted, so that is what I did and I want to make sure that it is still going to work?
Here is the recipe: (I think this is one of Kassy's?)
What you need for 1oz C,E, Ferulic 15%;
- 2 glass shot glasses
- 1oz cobalt or amber dropper or pump bottle
- 1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
- 1/4 tsp (1 ml) Vitamin E (equals 1%)
- .5% of Ferulic Acid (1 good pinch)
- 2 tsp SKB (Sea Kelp Bioferment)
- 3 + 1/2 tsp of distilled water
- 1/2 tsp of vodka (don't laugh, you need it to dissolve the FA so it's not gritty, and it also keeps the ph low enough!)

I also added a tiny drop of Poly 80 because I have had trouble with it seperating in the past. (is this bad?)

Anyhow, the aloe gel that I used in place of SKB has the following ingredients:
Ingredients: Certified organic aloe vera barbadensis juice (gel), lactobacillus/arundinaria gigantea extract (bamboo), gluscose (perservative), carboner (thickner), aloe barbadensis leaf polysaccharides (certified organic aloesorb™), tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), retinyl palmitate (vitamin A), ascorbic acid (vitamin C), phenoxyethanol (perservative), glucose oxidase (and) lactoperoxidase, (perservative) and sodium hydroxide (ph adjuster).

The serum is separated in the bottle still, so I usually just shake it up before using.

I should also mention that the LAA dissolved very quickly because I heated up the water a tiny bit (which today I read and found out that you should never do)Is the LAA too degraded now?

Should I just start from scratch and order the SKB????? Help!

Any other recipe suggestions would be greatly appreciated also. I have also tried the CEF with jojoba/grapeseed but have the same issues.

As I recall on Kassy's recipe she used fresh aloe from the leaf, carefully removed the inner Aloe Gel and microwaved it for a short period.

All of the actual instructions are on the link in the recipe index.

If using purchased Aloe Vera Gel you need 100% pure Aloe without additives, can be found in all health food stores I frequent.

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:39 am

DarkMoon wrote:

If using purchased Aloe Vera Gel you need 100% pure Aloe without additives, can be found in all health food stores I frequent.

Do you buy a food grade product? Thnx.

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:21 am

ClaudiaFE wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

If using purchased Aloe Vera Gel you need 100% pure Aloe without additives, can be found in all health food stores I frequent.

Do you buy a food grade product? Thnx.

I have seen both food grade and cosmetic (skin care section) without extra additives. As long as it is pure Aloe and I prefer certified organic it should be fine!

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:55 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

Video tutorial of recipe which considers the science here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwnMxRL7J5w&feature=player_embedded

Yes Erica1981, you should definitely have a look at this video.. And yes, I certainly considered the "science", when I posted the original recipe here at EDS in Nov 2010, and a very similar version in 2009;

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6395390#6395390

15% VITAMIN C SERUM WITH WGO + FA

- 15% LAA
- 1% Wheat Germ Oil (high vit E content!)
- .5% Ferulic Acid
- .5% Polysorbate 80
- .5% Preservative (Optiphen works nicely in acidic formulas!)
- .5% Vodka (you need to use this to dissolve the FA.)
- 82% Distilled Water

Don't miss the comment from "fawnie";

"I think it should be noted at the beginning of this tutorial that this is in fact Kassy_A's recipe from EDS. SHE worked out the details and made it available for the entire world to use. Her only mistake was not patenting it so that others wouldnt present it as their own idea."
myfawnieskin 2 months ago

And finally, It is the easiest and most beneficial C serum I've shared here, when formulated as written the pH works out to 2.7 for me, and it can easily be adjusted to suit individual needs. Anyway, this is the one I recommend and have used the last couple of years.

Please use 'fine l-ascorbic acid ultrafine powder' (not a vit C supplement). I highly recommend this one, as it never fails to fully dissolve very quickly, is always fresh + potent, and because it's a U.S. vendor, (I live in Florida), I get it very quickly.
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

**FYI; try to always use a DIY source close to your home, so your actives will actually be "active" when you get them.. If in doubt, always ask!**

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:08 am

DarkMoon wrote:

ClaudiaFE wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

If using purchased Aloe Vera Gel you need 100% pure Aloe without additives, can be found in all health food stores I frequent.

Do you buy a food grade product? Thnx.

I have seen both food grade and cosmetic (skin care section) without extra additives. As long as it is pure Aloe and I prefer certified organic it should be fine!

I have used fresh aloe, but unless you are a glutton for punishment, I don't recommend it as a rule..

Get yourself a nice Aloe Vera Gel 100%. Look for one without a laundry list of ingredients, and you will love incorporating it into your DIY products.

free skin care · Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:43 am

This is pretty much the recipe I use all the time for my DIY C, I only change up different oils at times and it has been a treasure to make and use!

Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:44 am

Kassy, you are amazing and so generous with your knowledge and time! Just tried a couple of your recipes over teh last few weeks, and gotta tell ya you rock! Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:21 am

Lin J.Y.,1 Lin, F-Y.,2 Burch, J.A.,2 Gupta, R.,2 Grichnik, J.M.,2 Monteiro-Riviere, N.A.,3 Zielinski, J.,4 and Pinnell, S.R.2 1 Chang Gung Memorial Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan, 2 Duke Univ., Durham, NC, 3 NC State Univ., Raleigh, NC, 4 Zielinski Research, San Diego, CA

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v125/n4/full/5603565a.html
Credit for CEF goes to the above. That work was published in 2005 long before any CEF showed up in DIY. And C serums in glycerin were around long before.

There is a problem between the Methods and Materials and the Discussion as well.

Cold extracted WGO contains maybe 2000 ppm which is 0.2% and if you are using only 1 % WGO what have you got in that serum for E?

0.002% ..if that.

free skin care · Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:32 am

snowtopia wrote:

Kassy, you are amazing and so generous with your knowledge and time! Just tried a couple of your recipes over teh last few weeks, and gotta tell ya you rock! Very Happy

I second that - she does rock!

free skin care · Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:33 am

erg wrote:

snowtopia wrote:

Kassy, you are amazing and so generous with your knowledge and time! Just tried a couple of your recipes over teh last few weeks, and gotta tell ya you rock! Very Happy

I second that - she does rock!

Ditto erg! Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:22 am

Thanks for the kind words but I have to tell ya, it's members like y'all, who motivate me to learn what I can and then give us affordable, beneficial and fun options for DIY.

I wish the folks who PM me (from forums around the world) wouldn't be so afraid to chime in with some of the great ideas + questions, that have really inspired me to learn a thing (or 20) about what benefits the skin.

Anyhoo, I'm enjoying a nice relaxing Sunday and doing a little shopping... I'm specifically hunting down the "bases" to use, for those who want to get started with "semi-DIY".

I get so many PM's about this, but really don't want to start a thread, if all it does is generate more PM's + emails.

Thoughts? (My thought is that someone else start a topic and I'll just chime in occasionally.) Anyway, it's about time you guys share some of YOUR great ideas.

free skin care · Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:30 am

Good idea. I am all about semi-DIY!
I'll start the topic!

Suggestions for good bases for semi-DIY
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45961

Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:56 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

IMO you have two problems here - firstly you have chosen a recipe that is impossible to replicate, and secondly that you have messed about with that recipe by adding ten new ingredients.

You need to weigh your powdered ingredients because density varies widely from supplier to supplier and how the product is stored (how finely ground it is and how much air in the powder). You also need to adjust the pH of the finished serum to ~2.8 if you are using L-AA. I am very concerned there is no preservative in that recipe then you are adding 'food' for microorganisms in the form of aloe (carbohydrates) and glucose (a sugar/ carbohydrate); also you don't mention using sterile distilled water and I can't see how you would heat the water without contaminating it. A recipe with oil and water will always separate unless you use an emulsifier like your polysorbate 80 and a preservative will be even more important. Some thickeners/ gelling agents will be ineffective or go strange outside a strict pH range - IIRC carbomer doesn't like low pHs. Confused

Video tutorial of recipe which considers the science here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwnMxRL7J5w&feature=player_embedded

Hi Firefox- Thank you for the advice...i figured I had screwed this up royally Crying or Very sad

So, to answer some of your questions..I used distilled water that I heat in the microwave for 5 seconds in the first shot glass. The ph is about 2.5. The poly 80 I thought would help it from separating...now that I am taking a closer look..it doesn't appear to be oil floating on top like previous recipes I have made, rather the top is a milky white color and the bottom clear. The aloe was 99% aloe vera..I could not find the 100% at Whole Foods so I figured a couple ingredients wouldn't hurt and I assumed there were a few preservatives in there too. I will def check out the video when I get home tonight.
KassyA- Thank you so much for the response..we all really do appreciate your efforts and we wish your "knowledgeable friends" would also share the great ideas they have wave

I don't have wheat germ oil(not familiar with this one so I'll have to do some research on the benefits) or the preservative, so I guess its yet another trip to the health food store or find these online
Sad

The LAA that I use is the finely milled powder from Lotioncrafters. I will learn my lesson and stick to the recipe from now on...just trying to use up all the ingredients that I already have. Are you sure I can't substitute vit e, grapeseed, or jojoba?? LOL jk
Anyhoo...thanks again for all the assistance. I'll watch the video and give it another go!!

I'm also considering purchasing that ready made Vitamin CEF from SkinActives powder and serum but the glycerin scares me (sticky oily mess??) $15.50 is such a good price!!

Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:53 am

thanks a lot for the video link.

could I use sea kelo bioferment istead the sea emollient?

and has the vitamin e to be vitamin e oil or pure vit e?

sry for the stupid question.

I hope kassy gets justice one day.

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