Stem Cell Technology in Skin Care
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free skin care · Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:18 pm

As the vast majority of the people who read this forum know. Dr. J owns a company that makes two anti-aging products using stem cell technology (bone marrow derived mesenchymal stem cells (BM-MSC)). Dr. J likes to post articles about how BM-MSC are being used to improve all kinds of medical conditions. This research is relevant to his skin care products because he hypothesizes that the same improvements and usefulness of BM-MSC that are being experienced in other medical condtions can be applied to the use of BM-MSC in skin care. The hypothesis is that people will experience the same improvements when the BM-MSC is applied topically (I should say that is my interpretation of his hypothesis - maybe he should state his hypthosis himself).

The purpose of this thread is for Dr. J to answer any questions about how all the new stem cell research is relevant to skin care and for him to share the results of his literature reviews on stem cell technology so we can all be enlightened.

free skin care · Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:17 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Dr. J, I am copying/pasting this from the AnteAGE thread, as I think this subject deserves discussion.

doodles wrote:

If it was me that had uncontrolled tissue growth from one product I would be extremely leery of using another product with pretty much the same ingredients. Doodles

Why would someone have this uncontrolled tissue growth, and if the BM MSC's caused this, could the AD-MSC's cause this same thing?

Of course neither product would or could do that. Not even pure 100% EGF could do that. It is physical friction or pressure that causes callouses.

The very odd statement we are talking about:

I swore I would not post on here, but I can not stay quiet on this MIRACULOUS product! I heal like nobody's business, fast as a speeding bullet, always have and that has not changed with AGE! I had a simple little splinter on my right index finger, cleaned it with Betaine Scrub removed it with STERILE tweezers, cleaned my boo boo with Betadine scrub and applied Betadine solution! Kept it clean and all good right? NO the only thing that I used that was getting on my finger was AnteAGE and I grew the hardest callus I have ever had in my life (58+ years). This just got worse and worse over three weeks time, I had a major overgrowth of tissue happening here. I stopped and now it is finally almost normal. I know it was the AnteAGE, that caused the not so great tissue to overgrow!

Rileygirl, doodles, I think we all know this was a phonied up report based on a physiologic impossibility. Read the statement itself carefully. Childish, really. Then also go back and read the comments made by the same person. Does this person strike you as credible? Doesn't really need a response. Let's spend our time talking about real things.

free skin care · Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:13 pm

bethany wrote:

DrJ wrote:

bethany wrote:

I thought this was interesting, so I am cross posting on to this thread.

cm5597 wrote:

DrJ wrote:

Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.

I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types.

Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit!

Another key difference that a colleague pointed out this week is that adipose stem cells are generally retrieved from 40-60 year old humans, the average age for receiving liposuction procedures (the cells are derived from the fat that is suctioned). In contrast the average age for bone marrow aspirate donors is 22 years (they are recruited from the athletic departments of universities). This means the starter cells in ADSC cultures are considerable older than those in BMSC cultures,and have already undergone a number of generations. Since stem cells themselves age (yes, ever get shorter telomeres) it may have something to to with the difference in cytokines expressed. In particular ones like IL-8 which is part of what differentiates fetal wound healing (scarless) from older adult healing (more fibrotic) as well as the TGF-beta family.

So does this mean products using the fetal cells have an advantage here?

COSMECEUTICALS

NEOCUTIS Bio-restorative Skin Cream, JOURNÉE Bio-restorative Day Cream, LUMIÈRE Bio-restorative Eye Cream and BIO-GEL Bio-restorative Hydrogel are the only products to contain PSP®.

Through years of research, physicians discovered fetal skin has a unique ability to heal wounds without scarring. Inspired by this, medical researchers at the University Hospital of Lausanne, Switzerland created a biotechnology process to extract the rich proteins responsible for scarless wound healing from cultured fetal skin cells. A dedicated cell bank was established for developing new skin treatments using a single biopsy of fetal skin. Originally established for wound healing and burn treatments, today this same cell bank also provides a lasting supply of cells for producing NEOCUTIS proprietary skin care ingredient Processed Skin Cell Proteins (PSP®).

PSP® provides the most complete and balanced combination of human growth factors and cytokines currently available.

http://www.neocutis.com/modules.php?modid=4

These are cultured fetal skin cells, not stem cells. Probably keratinocytes, as they don't mention fibroblasts. These cells are not specialized for cell growth or repair, like stem cells. Further, rather than allowing them to export cytokines only (the stuff you want), they lyse the cells (break them open) so the resulting mix contains millions of different biochemicals, some good, some not so good, for the renerative agenda. Also contains cell parts, DNA, rNA, nucleotides. Freeze-thaw lysing is well known to destroy proteins anyway.

It comes from Switzerland. BTW, I don't think you could do this in the US, because tissue from non-consenting humans(fetuses cannot give informed consent) cannot be commercially exploited. OK only for research purposes.

From the American Society for Cell Biology: Under the current law, it is “unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human fetal tissue for valuable consideration if the transfer affects interstate commerce.” which in legal language means you cannot sell.

free skin care · Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:19 pm

rileygirl wrote:

I don't care what personal issues you and Darkmoon have with each other, and I do not want to be involved in any of that. Frankly I am sick of seeing all the nasty posts going on lately between all the parties.

But, as a scientist, I would think this is something you would want to examine very carefully or at least take the time to explain to everyone why and/or why not this could happen or what some other explanations could be.

If a post is nasty, report it to the moderators, they do sterling work IMO. This 'callous' has been addressed on the AnteAGE review thread - see link - I don't see the point in allowing it to derail this thread. DarkMoon introduced many new products and gadgets into her routine over the last couple of months. She herself admitted she would be unable to attribute her results to any one product or gadget: despite that the callous post was very strongly worded, even emboldening the accusation.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45400&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=1150

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:18 am

rileygirl wrote:

Firefox7275 wrote:

If a post is nasty, report it to the moderators, they do sterling work IMO. This 'callous' has been addressed on the AnteAGE review thread - see link - I don't see the point in allowing it to derail this thread.

I was not wanting it to derail this thread, Firefox, which is why I said what I did about the personal issues going on between Dr J and Darkmoon. What I wanted to talk about was the possibility of overgrowth of tissue and Why or Why Not that may happen with cytokines. Is that more clear to you now?

The science: tissue "overgrowth" impossible because the cytokine profiles are balanced, physiologic, and in the case of AnteAGE anti-inflammatory, anti-scarring, and all tap into cell signal systems with internal homeostatic controls.

The psychology: wise managers and sincere posters both keep telling me to simply ignore. I try my best to do so.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:11 am

rileygirl wrote:

DrJ wrote:

The science: tissue "overgrowth" impossible because the cytokine profiles are balanced, physiologic, and in the case of AnteAGE anti-inflammatory, anti-scarring, and all tap into cell signal systems with internal homeostatic controls.

Thank you for your answer. This was all I wanted to know, if something like this could happen or not and the reasoning behind the answer.

I find this amazing that these products are exempt from any adverse reactions Riley.

Now we have seen every possible product causing some odd reaction for at least one on this forum?

Also go input any drug on PubMed or the NIH site and drugs can cause the exact same reaction they are meant to treat albeit in a very small percentage of people. Then there are the rare adverse reactions that some will have to any possible medication as well?

Thanks!

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:59 am

DM, you're right. No one thing works for every body. To think otherwise is not realistic!

VeronicaM, I think apple stem cells are bogus so to speak. They've been discussed on here before. I still think that coconut body lotion looks nice though. Very Happy

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:50 pm

DrJ wrote:

The science: tissue "overgrowth" impossible because the cytokine profiles are balanced, physiologic, and in the case of AnteAGE anti-inflammatory, anti-scarring, and all tap into cell signal systems with internal homeostatic controls.

This is not science, this is closed-minded thinking, biased one-sided perception of a problem. Every scientist has a room for doubt. Most eminent scientists accept the possibility that they may be on the wrong track.

I hope, this overcertainty is not part of your scientific approach that you are so proud of.

free skin care · Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:13 pm

VeronicaM wrote:

Egyptiangoddess,

Why do you think they're bogus?

If you go to the thread titled "Statement on Stem Cells and their Potential", you can see some links I posted. (DrJ and DragoN are why I thought that.)

DrJ, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but sometimes you seem like Dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde. Confused

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