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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:30 pm  |
I would like to hear people’s opinions on how to go about testing the new technology products – that would be growth factors, cytokines, stem cells, however you want to classify them. If I recall correctly, one of the original posts on BFT was a criticism of Marta at TIA as far as her product testing. I think somewhere along the line someone determined that she was using about a dozen different products while she was testing new ones, and she was constantly changing products so that it seemed possible that the results that she was getting from product B were actually from product A that she had already been using for four weeks.
When I began my journey with Lifeline, I decided that if I was going to pay top dollar for a product I wanted that product to be comprehensive in terms of antioxidants, vitamins, humicants, etc. I didn’t want to have to pay additional to get those benefits. I was willing to buy into the idea that the “new technology” product could provide all of the benefits of those actives and more. I admit that I was willing to add a moisturizer if necessary, but only for a short time, because if I couldn’t get my skin to normalize with this expensive new technology, then it probably wasn’t for me. I encouraged others on the forum trying Lifeline to use the product exclusively – because that was the only way I knew to determine if it works. But I think I am in the minority, and perhaps I am missing something, so I am finally going to ask - where do you guys stand on this idea of product testing? Is it practical to completely disrupt your routine and stop everything in order to determine if a “new technology product” is worth it? And for how long are you willing to do that? |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:08 pm |
fantastic question!
I am exclusively using the Re Luma, nothing else. But I do want to add an A, just need to find one. It seems they suggest an A being added would only benefit, I need to go read myself but someone posted they are suggesting that.
I also think adding in A, E or C should not if added in the right order effect the test of a product. Rather should help with the results. But if one is using ISCO then adding Brand X eye cream, Ok different ball game! But even if different ball game, if the results are fantastic, perhaps the mixture found wouldn't be a bad think, as long as it was posted as using both.
Oh I am also using the PMD, microdermabrasion. I would lump that in with exfoliation. Or would someone say thats cheating, I don't know. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:33 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
fantastic question!
I am exclusively using the Re Luma, nothing else. But I do want to add an A, just need to find one. It seems they suggest an A being added would only benefit, I need to go read myself but someone posted they are suggesting that.
I also think adding in A, E or C should not if added in the right order effect the test of a product. Rather should help with the results. But if one is using ISCO then adding Brand X eye cream, Ok different ball game! But even if different ball game, if the results are fantastic, perhaps the mixture found wouldn't be a bad think, as long as it was posted as using both.
Oh I am also using the PMD, microdermabrasion. I would lump that in with exfoliation. Or would someone say thats cheating, I don't know. |
I am using AA exclusively but still using a few products for acne. I know that isn't really exclusively but I have been using the acne products for a long time so I know the outcome of those things. I did add in RA for a time being but have since stopped. I will be starting with the ReAura on my face in a week or two and will write my last review on AA at that time. I don't think it is fair to continue saying the results or lack of comes from a product when you really can't tell because you added a new skin product or gadget. It is my personal opinion that the PMD falls under this category because I really think it is something that not only changes texture/wrinkles but also helps a lot with
product penetration.
Now upon saying that I do think if you have been using something for at least 6 months in some cases 3 months depending on the product/gadget it is fine because you have had long enough to see some of the results you would get. I do think this is a lot to ask of people especially people on this board who love products. So maybe it would be good if people mention the other products they are using and how long they used them in their reviews.
I am going to do a split test on my face using the ReAura face cream and the AA serum. I am doing it on my chest right now so I will review that experiment but I think I will be able to have a clearer picture of cause and effect in this case. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:42 pm |
I've been using the PMD for a bit over 3 months, and really won't stop now, but I will disclose it, I am sure it will help my results. I use it about every 10 days, I am a bit lax on the timing. It is the only exfoliation I use, unless a sonic cleanser counts, but that's just deep cleaning, not exfoliation, in my opinion.
I see nothing wrong with using derma rolling, pmd, any gadget one wants, as long as others understand their results are combined. The machine your going to be adding is a laser, so your results should seriously improve! I am jealous your using the Re Arua, PQ results have been amazing! |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:49 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
I've been using the PMD for a bit over 3 months, and really won't stop now, but I will disclose it, I am sure it will help my results. I use it about every 10 days, I am a bit lax on the timing. It is the only exfoliation I use, unless a sonic cleanser counts, but that's just deep cleaning, not exfoliation, in my opinion.
I see nothing wrong with using derma rolling, pmd, any gadget one wants, as long as others understand their results are combined. The machine your going to be adding is a laser, so your results should seriously improve! I am jealous your using the Re Arua, PQ results have been amazing! |
I agree, I don't think the gadgets are an issue. They should do nothing but improve results. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:01 pm |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
I've been using the PMD for a bit over 3 months, and really won't stop now, but I will disclose it, I am sure it will help my results. I use it about every 10 days, I am a bit lax on the timing. It is the only exfoliation I use, unless a sonic cleanser counts, but that's just deep cleaning, not exfoliation, in my opinion.
I see nothing wrong with using derma rolling, pmd, any gadget one wants, as long as others understand their results are combined. The machine your going to be adding is a laser, so your results should seriously improve! I am jealous your using the Re Arua, PQ results have been amazing! |
I agree, I don't think the gadgets are an issue. They should do nothing but improve results. |
Sorry Tiny, I thought you had started the PDM a short period before the Reluma.
Panda, I do think the gadget should probably improve the results but how do you tell which thing is causing the good or bad results?
Like I said it is none of my business what products/gadgets people are using but I do think it can effect results and then it's hard to know what caused what. |
_________________
Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:09 pm |
| CookieD wrote: |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
I've been using the PMD for a bit over 3 months, and really won't stop now, but I will disclose it, I am sure it will help my results. I use it about every 10 days, I am a bit lax on the timing. It is the only exfoliation I use, unless a sonic cleanser counts, but that's just deep cleaning, not exfoliation, in my opinion.
I see nothing wrong with using derma rolling, pmd, any gadget one wants, as long as others understand their results are combined. The machine your going to be adding is a laser, so your results should seriously improve! I am jealous your using the Re Arua, PQ results have been amazing! |
I agree, I don't think the gadgets are an issue. They should do nothing but improve results. |
Sorry Tiny, I thought you had started the PDM a short period before the Reluma.
Panda, I do think the gadget should probably improve the results but how do you tell which thing is causing the good or bad results?
Like I said it is none of my business what products/gadgets people are using but I do think it can effect results and then it's hard to know what caused what. |
No when I started PMD thread, I'd been using about a month! and Cookie, your brave, I could never do a one side face test, I'd be freaked that one half would look great, other half not so great!
Yes gadgets will improve it all! but thats the point to get the best you can, with what you have. If others want your results, as long as they know your exact process, its a win! At least thats how I feel. Others may want a strickly "pure" test. But I am not that gal as I said, I'll happily diclose any and all items I use, gadget or otherwise! |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:17 pm |
| CookieD wrote: |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
I've been using the PMD for a bit over 3 months, and really won't stop now, but I will disclose it, I am sure it will help my results. I use it about every 10 days, I am a bit lax on the timing. It is the only exfoliation I use, unless a sonic cleanser counts, but that's just deep cleaning, not exfoliation, in my opinion.
I see nothing wrong with using derma rolling, pmd, any gadget one wants, as long as others understand their results are combined. The machine your going to be adding is a laser, so your results should seriously improve! I am jealous your using the Re Arua, PQ results have been amazing! |
I agree, I don't think the gadgets are an issue. They should do nothing but improve results. |
Sorry Tiny, I thought you had started the PDM a short period before the Reluma.
Panda, I do think the gadget should probably improve the results but how do you tell which thing is causing the good or bad results?
Like I said it is none of my business what products/gadgets people are using but I do think it can effect results and then it's hard to know what caused what. |
I am the one who started with the PMD after Tiny, I would need to check the thread to see the date I started but I was at that time using the AA. I do think I had a "control" as I used the PMD on my forearms also and saw fading of hyperpigmentation on both my face and arms so I feel that was due to the PMD.
I gave up my RA and LAA for a short time while trialing the AA, but added those back in as I plan to start dermarolling.
I use my HF and have for a long time, did not use the US.
Not sure what else really. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:35 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| CookieD wrote: |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
I've been using the PMD for a bit over 3 months, and really won't stop now, but I will disclose it, I am sure it will help my results. I use it about every 10 days, I am a bit lax on the timing. It is the only exfoliation I use, unless a sonic cleanser counts, but that's just deep cleaning, not exfoliation, in my opinion.
I see nothing wrong with using derma rolling, pmd, any gadget one wants, as long as others understand their results are combined. The machine your going to be adding is a laser, so your results should seriously improve! I am jealous your using the Re Arua, PQ results have been amazing! |
I agree, I don't think the gadgets are an issue. They should do nothing but improve results. |
Sorry Tiny, I thought you had started the PDM a short period before the Reluma.
Panda, I do think the gadget should probably improve the results but how do you tell which thing is causing the good or bad results?
Like I said it is none of my business what products/gadgets people are using but I do think it can effect results and then it's hard to know what caused what. |
No when I started PMD thread, I'd been using about a month! and Cookie, your brave, I could never do a one side face test, I'd be freaked that one half would look great, other half not so great!
Yes gadgets will improve it all! but thats the point to get the best you can, with what you have. If others want your results, as long as they know your exact process, its a win! At least thats how I feel. Others may want a strickly "pure" test. But I am not that gal as I said, I'll happily diclose any and all items I use, gadget or otherwise! |
Tiny, I will admit doing the half test is easier on my chest and maybe if I see really different results on my face I may cave and drop the test but I will at least start out with it and see where it goes. As I said earlier it is not whether or not people use other gadgets/product just the disclosure and where the results come from but we as consumer are not clinical tester and shouldn't be held to that kind of standard. So whatever anyone wants to do is fine.
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:40 pm |
yep alls good no matter how one wants to proceed! Just as long as someone doesn't sneek off do botox, take pics and say wow look!! LMAO
and I am teasing! |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:13 pm |
| I did forget the LED! Sorry I am bad about keeping track, oh and no injections or procedures ever...so far! |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:27 pm |
| Panda1 wrote: |
I would like to hear people’s opinions on how to go about testing the new technology products – that would be growth factors, cytokines, stem cells, however you want to classify them. If I recall correctly, one of the original posts on BFT was a criticism of Marta at TIA as far as her product testing. I think somewhere along the line someone determined that she was using about a dozen different products while she was testing new ones, and she was constantly changing products so that it seemed possible that the results that she was getting from product B were actually from product A that she had already been using for four weeks.
When I began my journey with Lifeline, I decided that if I was going to pay top dollar for a product I wanted that product to be comprehensive in terms of antioxidants, vitamins, humicants, etc. I didn’t want to have to pay additional to get those benefits. I was willing to buy into the idea that the “new technology” product could provide all of the benefits of those actives and more. I admit that I was willing to add a moisturizer if necessary, but only for a short time, because if I couldn’t get my skin to normalize with this expensive new technology, then it probably wasn’t for me. I encouraged others on the forum trying Lifeline to use the product exclusively – because that was the only way I knew to determine if it works. But I think I am in the minority, and perhaps I am missing something, so I am finally going to ask - where do you guys stand on this idea of product testing? Is it practical to completely disrupt your routine and stop everything in order to determine if a “new technology product” is worth it? And for how long are you willing to do that? |
What many people fail to consider is that dropping one or more product from your routine equates to multiple changes (one for each ingredient), and can be responsible for a positive or a negative effect. Dropping products can also be associated with 'hidden' changes to your routine - you stop massaging your skin as much, applying a product to bare skin which you previously layered, only having tap water touch your face once a day. If you had dropped three products from your routine to try out, say, AnteAGE and your skin looks smoother and more plumped, how could you have been sure the AnteAGE is working rather than you stopping using a couple of ingredients that were causing low grade (invisible) irritation and dehydration? 
Not sure what you mean by practical in this context? It's impractical to drop a cleanser or sunscreen but little else we use is necessary for healthy skin (as opposed to aesthetically pleasing skin). One solution is DIY - then you can use a very similar base each time (same oil, humectant, emulsifier, preservative) and add in one or two actives that you feel confident are backed by published research. Or add in actives that research suggests work synergistically - CE ferulic, KinNiaNag. In an ideal world we would all be comparing Lifeline or AnteAGE to the base solution of the product, ie. every active except the cytokines. Having said that, it makes a lot of sense to trial a product (as you have) in the way you intend to use it longer term. If that means dropping products fine, but try not to assess the results for several months. |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:49 am |
| That's an excellent point, Firefox. So many other factors to take into account, almost in a Butterfly Effect kind of way. |
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Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:17 am |
| majorb wrote: |
| That's an excellent point, Firefox. So many other factors to take into account, almost in a Butterfly Effect kind of way. |
It's SO easy to get caught out by. When I first purchased unrefined shea butter I slathered it on my elbow eczema numerous times a day .... and my eczema started healing. The effect was better than my prescription corticosteroid cream!! Being a science nerd I tried to figure out what mystical compounds are in the 'healing fraction', also taking into consideration that the lipids would be helping my skin retain water. Eventually it dawned on me that the shea butter was acting as a physical barrier between the eczematous skin and shampoo bubbles running down my arm.  |
_________________
Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:30 am |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
| majorb wrote: |
| That's an excellent point, Firefox. So many other factors to take into account, almost in a Butterfly Effect kind of way. |
It's SO easy to get caught out by. When I first purchased unrefined shea butter I slathered it on my elbow eczema numerous times a day .... and my eczema started healing. The effect was better than my prescription corticosteroid cream!! Being a science nerd I tried to figure out what mystical compounds are in the 'healing fraction', also taking into consideration that the lipids would be helping my skin retain water. Eventually it dawned on me that the shea butter was acting as a physical barrier between the eczematous skin and shampoo bubbles running down my arm. |
This is prob why what works for one might not work for all  ! One could even go down the road, of hard water, soft water, humid or dry air, ect.
So the best any of us can do is list what we use and how and the results. |
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Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:19 am |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
It's SO easy to get caught out by. When I first purchased unrefined shea butter I slathered it on my elbow eczema numerous times a day .... and my eczema started healing. The effect was better than my prescription corticosteroid cream!! Being a science nerd I tried to figure out what mystical compounds are in the 'healing fraction', also taking into consideration that the lipids would be helping my skin retain water. Eventually it dawned on me that the shea butter was acting as a physical barrier between the eczematous skin and shampoo bubbles running down my arm. |
Brilliant! The miracle of shea butter explained.
Tiny - Yes, you're absolutely right.
I experience dramatically different results using exactly the same products in the very hard water area where we currently live and then visiting my family with their lovely soft water: difficult skin and hair here, well-behaved skin and hair there. |
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Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:16 am |
| majorb wrote: |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
It's SO easy to get caught out by. When I first purchased unrefined shea butter I slathered it on my elbow eczema numerous times a day .... and my eczema started healing. The effect was better than my prescription corticosteroid cream!! Being a science nerd I tried to figure out what mystical compounds are in the 'healing fraction', also taking into consideration that the lipids would be helping my skin retain water. Eventually it dawned on me that the shea butter was acting as a physical barrier between the eczematous skin and shampoo bubbles running down my arm. |
Brilliant! The miracle of shea butter explained.
Tiny - Yes, you're absolutely right.
I experience dramatically different results using exactly the same products in the very hard water area where we currently live and then visiting my family with their lovely soft water: difficult skin and hair here, well-behaved skin and hair there. |
So true on water! I notice when I travel, hair is either tons better or tons worse all depending on the water! So is skin! Plus to do perfect testing, one would also have to list medicines, OMG the list is endless |
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Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:27 am |
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
What many people fail to consider is that dropping one or more product from your routine equates to multiple changes (one for each ingredient), and can be responsible for a positive or a negative effect. Dropping products can also be associated with 'hidden' changes to your routine - you stop massaging your skin as much, applying a product to bare skin which you previously layered, only having tap water touch your face once a day. If you had dropped three products from your routine to try out, say, AnteAGE and your skin looks smoother and more plumped, how could you have been sure the AnteAGE is working rather than you stopping using a couple of ingredients that were causing low grade (invisible) irritation and dehydration?
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This is an excellent point, and one I had not even thought about. I always ask what else a person is using, but have never thought about what they have recently dropped. |
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Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:30 am |
Lotusesther provided this link on a cytokine study on the skin. I wanted to copy part of it, as it pertains to testing of a product. It may give some people an idea on how to trial a product?
The double-blind, placebo-controlled study was approved by the Western Institutional Review Board and performed at 2 centers; one in Nashville, Tennessee and one in La Jolla, California. It was conducted according to the Declaration of Helsinki. After obtaining informed consent, 20 Caucasian female volunteers between 35 and 65 years of age, of Fitzpatrick skin type I to IV, with demonstrable facial wrinkling in the lateral canthal skin area, were included. They were not nursing or pregnant and were free of active skin diseases affecting the face (eg, atopic dermatitis, psoriasis, rosacea, and seborrheic dermatitis). They did not undergo microdermabrasion, light and medium skin peels within one month, any nonablative laser, light or radiofrequency treatments within 3 months, any dermabrasion, deep skin peels, ablative laser treatments, Botox[R] or filler injections, or cosmetic surgery in the face within 6 months prior to the start of the study. In addition, only subjects willing to refrain from using other topical products on the face 7 days prior and during the entire study period were included. In order to provide sun protection, the use of the sunscreen product Coppertone[R] Shade 45 (Schering-Plough HealthCare Products, Inc, Memphis, TN) was allowed. This product was distributed at the beginning of study together with the study products. The subjects were instructed to apply the sunscreen after the study product if needed.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Human%20growth%20factor%20and%20cytokine%20skin%20cream%20for%20facial%20skin...-a0170240855
ETA: Note that the subjects were "free from active skin diseases". |
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