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indented/pitted acne scars

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newusernew
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:32 am      Reply with quote
i have indented/pitted acne scars and ive tried various treatments with no noticeable improvement. things i tried:

fraxel: 8 fraxel restores in one year. no noticeable improvement, i got new scars from laser.

retin-a for a month, no improvement, two scars got deeper

aha: some very minor improvement

supper cop 2x for a week, no change noticed.

what can i do with my scars?
havana8
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:50 am      Reply with quote
Not sure if you've seen these threads but there are some shared experiences that you might find helpful:

Has anyone had success in treating pitted acne scars? Pls RO
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6402848

Ice pick scars - they are like potholes on my face
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=42995

I'm sure others will have more suggestions. Welcome to the forum. Smile
newusernew
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:53 am      Reply with quote
i read it but i highly suspect foxe works for SB.
Firefox7275
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:02 am      Reply with quote
Why did you get scars from the Fraxel, do you scar easily or was there an error made? Have you considered dermarolling? It takes longer than a month to get results from Retin-A, were you using the correct pea-sized amounts and ensuring you rubbed it in very well?

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newusernew
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:09 am      Reply with quote
i got six fraxel restore with no result, complained to the clinic, clinic increased treatment from 8 paths to 16 paths. i had two small pits on nose close the each other, after the treatment, the good skin between the two pits were removed, and the two pits merged to form a line

i rubbed in retin-a, i know it takes time, im just not seeing any change.
Firefox7275
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:16 am      Reply with quote
newusernew wrote:
i got six fraxel restore with no result, complained to the clinic, clinic increased treatment from 8 paths to 16 paths. i had two small pits on nose close the each other, after the treatment, the good skin between the two pits were removed, and the two pits merged to form a line

i rubbed in retin-a, i know it takes time, im just not seeing any change.


So if you don't have a scarring issue dermarolling is definitely an option. You shouldn't expect to see any change in a month with Retin-A, hasn't your derm explained that? Have you made over your diet to be anti-inflammatory and contain plenty of all the nutrients required for healing?

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newusernew
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:19 am      Reply with quote
i really cant stand the pain of rolling, tried it before

what nutrients are required for healing? in takingvc

thanks a lot for your help and advice
Firefox7275
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:41 am      Reply with quote
Were you using EMLA cream to numb the area before dermarolling? If so did you apply a thick layer and use saran wrap (cling film)? What length needles? Did you mean you only used copper peptides for a week or was that a typo? Even if you do dermaroll you would get best results also using retinoids with vitamin C or copper peptides, and you would expect at least a year for significant results.

All nutrients are needed for optimum healing but particularly protein little and often, plenty of essential fatty acids, vitamins A and C, copper and zinc. Avoid sugar, white refined carbs, alcohol and soda because these suppress immune function. Note that I am not advocating supplementing individual micronutrients, it is far better to get them from a varied wholefood diet which also supplies the remaining vitamins and minerals, antioxidants and other phytonutrients. If you want an insurance policy, add in a good complete multi vitamin/ mineral.

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newusernew
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:02 am      Reply with quote
i dont trust numbing creams, had them during fraxel treatment, still painful like hell

my scars are on upper lip, forehead, nose, very painful to roll. i use acid, aha bha lacsal, etc

i was told it takes time to see improvement so i wasted one year on fraxel, result never shown

I'll continue retin-a and cp, but I'm afraid time is what it take to prove they're useless as well

i post here to hear others success or bad experience so i dont have to waste a year on every hype.

thank you for your advice
Firefox7275
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:49 pm      Reply with quote
I know very little about Fraxel so can't fairly comment on that. Retin-A is a prescription medication so is proven to be effective ... but like every prescription drug it is not effective in every last person. Vitamin C is also well researched but again it doesn't work in everyone. AFAIK with pitted scarring you need to destroy some tissue whilst you build it up again with retinoids, vitamin C or copper peptides. IIRC you need to use deeper peels than the AHA/ BHAs you mention, such as a TCA, but that can be painful and is higher risk than microneedling.

EMLA cream is also on prescription in many countries so it is effective when used correctly, but the deeper the treatment the less effective the EMLA will be which is why I asked what needle length you used. It does concern me that you were given the impression laser would be painless with EMLA, when I think it is simply supposed to make the treatment tolerable. Personally I can dermaroll my whole forehead with a 1mm and no topical anaesthetic but I certainly wouldn't want to do the lip or nose area like that! A three line roller is much less painful than the regular roller, because there are fewer needles.

I totally understand that you have already been disappointed but I think you are looking for a 'magic bullet' that just doesn't exist. Maybe run a search to see if you can come up with anything I have missed? Smile

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foxe
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:23 pm      Reply with quote
newusernew wrote:
i read it but i highly suspect foxe works for SB.


I do NOT work for SB - just a very satisfied user of CPs and happy to share my results.

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foxe
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:28 pm      Reply with quote
I would agree with Firefox on her recommendations here. You cannot expect much results in such a short time using topical products. You will need patience and diligence using the topicals you mentioned before you see results. And - to speed the results up, add hydroxy acids and needling to break down the scar tissue and something like copper peptides (they DO work great) to help rebuild the skin tissue without scars.

Topical Vit C and a vitamin A product also work great with rolling, but CPs do a really great job for scar tissue - so don't give up on them. Just add a single needle or dermastamp to break up the tissue and speed the healing process along. I would also recommend going on the Skin Biology forum for help - there are many there that have dealt with scar tissue that can give you a lot of support.

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foxe
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:34 pm      Reply with quote
newusernew wrote:
supper cop 2x for a week, no change noticed.


No one should expect a noticeable change in such a short time.

Even when not dealing with scar tissue, it took me about 4-8 weeks before I saw anything noticeable using CPs, and that was mostly a firming and tissue/texture change. Scar tissue is very deep and requires considerable rebuilding. This is a process that requires a break-down/build-up and needs to be repeated over and over (depending on how deep the scar is). I have had very good success with some ice-pick scars, and it has taken over 8-10 different single-needle treatments to get the scars almost level. It is not an 'instant' fix. Skin needs time and patience to do its remodeling.

*CPs would have been perfect to add to your Fraxel treatments.

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DarkMoon
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:39 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
newusernew wrote:
i read it but i highly suspect foxe works for SB.


I do NOT work for SB - just a very satisfied user of CPs and happy to share my results.



OMG. How about some proof? God frobid someone is both knowledgeable and passionate about what they have results with that makes them a shill working for a company? Please! Rolling Eyes

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newusernew1
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:07 pm      Reply with quote
I'm newusernew, I had to register a new account as system only allow me to post 5 posts in a day.

Well you can't call something a solution to scars if it takes years to see noticeable result, may cause new scars and may not work at all for some people. I'm looking for a solution that's not like that.

I was told by the laser clinic that after 6 fraxel restore treatments, most clients saw a 75% improvement, and they told me skin keeps improving 6 months after fraxel, what a lie! I had 8 painful fraxel restore on 60mj to 70 mj, saw <5% improvement and got a new scar. The new scar looks bigger than any scar I wanted to treat initially. I spent $5000 and a year on fraxel restore.

No offense, I did a thorough research on scar reduction and copper peptides on this forum and came across many posts by foxe. She seems to be too knowledgeable and passionate to be a real user/customer. There's a lot of scientific terms in her posts, she explains from theory point of view most of the times, rather than from own experience. She seems to know many products from skin biology and know the details/ingredients the science behind every one of them, including products for anti-aging and scar reduction. I just had a hard time believing a real user would post over 1000 posts about douzens of SB's copper peptides products.

I spent $5000 on fraxel and countless $$$ on creams: retin-a, copper peptide, C serum, AHA, BHA, TCA, etc. None gave noticeable result, fraxel and rein-a/AHA caused new scars. These "solutions" dont work and cause new scars, made me look worse than when I started.
LoriA
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Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:55 pm      Reply with quote
Wow. I don't know why you're still posting here. These people have been nothing but kind, patient, encouraging and helpful but most of your responses have been dismissive and negative.

Whether or not Foxe makes a living at it or not, you might learn a thing or two about skincare from her and a lot of others here who are both knowledgeable and enthusiatic, not just about their own but others' success stories, if you weren't so intent on losing.

It sucks that you've had a bad time of it, but I really doubt that you're going to find anything to help with your scars until you find something to help with your attitude.

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Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:57 pm      Reply with quote
LoriA wrote:
Wow. I don't know why you're still posting here. These people have been nothing but kind, patient, encouraging and helpful but most of your responses have been dismissive and negative.

Whether or not Foxe makes a living at it or not, you might learn a thing or two about skincare from her and a lot of others here who are both knowledgeable and enthusiatic, not just about their own but others' success stories, if you weren't so intent on losing.

It sucks that you've had a bad time of it, but I really doubt that you're going to find anything to help with your scars until you find something to help with your attitude.


Amen Lori,

I sure hope she does not count all my posts on OCM because I bet that is going to make me an Olive Oil Tycoon!

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newusernew
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Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:59 am      Reply with quote
sorry if i was rude, im typing with a phone at work. i aappreciate everybody for their advice. I'm pissed by the methods I've tried and didn't worl, not at people giving me advice.

i researched the forum for copper peptides and saw many posts by foxe, most about the science, theory about sb copper peptides, with frequent reference to details in research papers. sorry she sounds like a scientist, not a real user.

i also saw multiple people complained about skin biology site dele
tes negative posts, so i don't warent to post there. i don't think the seller of the product can give unbiased info

i know it takes time, but if say example a treatment takes 20 months to fade a scar, i should at least see 5% improvement in one month, right? i cant expect to see no result in 19 months and 100% improvement in the last month, that doesn't make too much sense to me
Firefox7275
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Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:06 am      Reply with quote
newusernew1 wrote:
I'm newusernew, I had to register a new account as system only allow me to post 5 posts in a day.

Well you can't call something a solution to scars if it takes years to see noticeable result, may cause new scars and may not work at all for some people. I'm looking for a solution that's not like that.

I was told by the laser clinic that after 6 fraxel restore treatments, most clients saw a 75% improvement, and they told me skin keeps improving 6 months after fraxel, what a lie! I had 8 painful fraxel restore on 60mj to 70 mj, saw <5% improvement and got a new scar. The new scar looks bigger than any scar I wanted to treat initially. I spent $5000 and a year on fraxel restore.

No offense, I did a thorough research on scar reduction and copper peptides on this forum and came across many posts by foxe. She seems to be too knowledgeable and passionate to be a real user/customer. There's a lot of scientific terms in her posts, she explains from theory point of view most of the times, rather than from own experience. She seems to know many products from skin biology and know the details/ingredients the science behind every one of them, including products for anti-aging and scar reduction. I just had a hard time believing a real user would post over 1000 posts about douzens of SB's copper peptides products.

I spent $5000 on fraxel and countless $$$ on creams: retin-a, copper peptide, C serum, AHA, BHA, TCA, etc. None gave noticeable result, fraxel and rein-a/AHA caused new scars. These "solutions" dont work and cause new scars, made me look worse than when I started.


Actually collagen does keep remodelling for six months or more after an injury, objective measurement not lie. Whether that improves skin's aesthetic appearance (subjective measurement) depends on your individual healing response, expectations and other factors. AFAIK there isn't a single prescription medication that works for every patient, are you suggesting the entire pharmaceutical industry is worthless?

These solutions DO work when used in the right combinations for the right time period by the right candidate. The remodelling of six months plus is why it takes months or years to get the full effect, there is NOTHING currently on the market that can alter millions of years of evolution. If we'd overcome that we wouldn't have people recuperating from hospital operations, burns or road traffic accidents for many months!

If you are going to dismiss everyone who is passionate, knowledgeable and scientific you will dismiss the entire dermatology community, and you had better ignore all my posts along with Foxe's. FYI over twenty years working in healthcare and a real user last time I looked in the mirror.

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newusernew
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Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:35 am      Reply with quote
i did not dismiss anybody, i said those methods didn't work from my own experience. i appreciate info from books or research but i opened the post to hear people who have experience treating their own scars. research is research.
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Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:38 am      Reply with quote
newusernew wrote:
i did not dismiss anybody, i said those methods didn't work from my own experience. i appreciate info from books or research but i opened the post to hear people who have experience treating their own scars. research is research.


You dismissed Foxe as a shill when she was giving the benefit of her experience AND the underlying science, you glossed over my advice to use proven topicals products for longer based on research, dismissed dermarolling which is based on anecdotal evidence AND research, dismissed the suggestion to use EMLA or shorter needles, and labelled your derms guidance on timeframes as lies.

newusernew wrote:

retin-a for a month, no improvement, two scars got deeper
aha: some very minor improvement
supper cop 2x for a week, no change noticed.

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Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:02 am      Reply with quote
I don't know why you're trying to be protective of everybody in the same business.

I got my fraxel restore treatments from a laser clinic, not a derm. I was told most clients got 75% improvement after 6 treatments. I had 8 treatments in one year and had 5% improvement. What is wrong with me posting my true experience here? Am I supposed to trust everybody who's trying to sell me products/treatments? I don't care about whether collagen continue to form if I will end up looking the same 6 months after the treatment. My goal is to reduce scars, not to form new collagen if it's not gonna change the look of the scars.

I know in theory some products work, but how well do they work? what kind of improvement can I expect? Over what period of time? That's why I opened the post.

I didn't expect to see result from using retin-a in a month, but there's nothing wrong with me posting my progress saying I see no result using retin-a in a month here. I want to know other people's experience from using retin-a and other products, how long they used them and what kind of improvement they saw. It's easy to say they're effective, but do they remove scars in 2 years or improve scars by 5% over 20 years usage? That's what I want to find out here. I'm still using retin-a and copper peptides but I'd like to hear from people who used these products for longer period of time what they feel about the products instead of blindly putting those creams on my face for 2 years just to find out they improve scars by 1% in 2 years time.

There're many people who used needles for months or years with no improvement and I presonally feel it's painful and don't feel like using this method.
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Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:32 am      Reply with quote
newusernew wrote:
I don't know why you're trying to be protective of everybody in the same business.

I got my fraxel restore treatments from a laser clinic, not a derm. I was told most clients got 75% improvement after 6 treatments. I had 8 treatments in one year and had 5% improvement. What is wrong with me posting my true experience here? Am I supposed to trust everybody who's trying to sell me products/treatments? I don't care about whether collagen continue to form if I will end up looking the same 6 months after the treatment. My goal is to reduce scars, not to form new collagen if it's not gonna change the look of the scars.

I know in theory some products work, but how well do they work? what kind of improvement can I expect? Over what period of time? That's why I opened the post.

I didn't expect to see result from using retin-a in a month, but there's nothing wrong with me posting my progress saying I see no result using retin-a in a month here. I want to know other people's experience from using retin-a and other products, how long they used them and what kind of improvement they saw. It's easy to say they're effective, but do they remove scars in 2 years or improve scars by 5% over 20 years usage? That's what I want to find out here. I'm still using retin-a and copper peptides but I'd like to hear from people who used these products for longer period of time what they feel about the products instead of blindly putting those creams on my face for 2 years just to find out they improve scars by 1% in 2 years time.

There're many people who used needles for months or years with no improvement and I presonally feel it's painful and don't feel like using this method.


And I don't know why you feel the need to be so dismissive, nor why you would call healthcare and aesthetics the same business. Healthcare is not even a business in many parts of the world! Laughing Calling someone a liar and someone else a shill is posting your slanderous opinion. Saying you got no results is posting your experience.

Pain is basically inevitable, as already explained you need to use a destructive method alongside a combination of constructive topicals for best results. Collagen remodelling does change the surface appearance ... for responsive individuals. You've had opinions and experience from myself and Foxe, but according to you we are both biased. Why not go to a independent dermatologist instead of a laser clinic which is primarily there to sell you a product or service?

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Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:57 am      Reply with quote
I did go to independent derms, they either say there's no good treatment or suggested retin-a and said it had marginal effect. When I went to the laser clinic, they were confident their laser would work for me, so...I'm not responsive individual? I did extensive search online about other people's comments about fraxel restore. 75% improvement after 6 treatments is obviously a lie. I did not just say people in laser clinic are liars. In case you ask why I got the treatment after my research, I was desperate and thought even if it worked for 1% of people, I'd still try it and see I'm that 1%. My experience proved other user's reviews.

I'm using acid, which is a destructive method. I used rollers for a while, couldn't get it to forehead, nose and upper lip, but did use it on cheeks with no result. I also saw many people's review saying all it gives is micro-swelling. If it's not so painful, I don't mind keep trying.

I never said you're biased, I only said that about Foxe, because:

1. She posted over thousand posts about cp
2. Very few of them are about personal experience, most are the science behind cp products, details in research papers
3. She raved about every cp products, dozens of them. Most people who have real experience with cp would talk about how cp changed their skin, not about the science, the history of cp invention, details about the Dr. and his research, etc

I could be wrong, but she doesn't sound like she's just a satisfied user. Why are you so protective of her? Do you know her in person to know she's not a shill?
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Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:17 am      Reply with quote
So I'm protective of Foxe and protective of everyone in the same business, but you are not accusing me of bias? Laughing

"If you are going to dismiss everyone who is passionate, knowledgeable and scientific you will dismiss the entire dermatology community, and you had better ignore all my posts along with Foxe's. FYI over twenty years working in healthcare and a real user last time I looked in the mirror."

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