Necklace banding - horizontal lines at the front of neck
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Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:59 am

Hi,

I looked everywhere for a post on this and I can't seem to find one.

So I thought I'd ask, hope you don't mind.

I did a little research on necklace banding or horizontal lines on the neck and upper chest area, which I unfortunately have.

There not that noticeable but I would like to get rid of them.

They seem to be genetic my mom has them also.

I tried a dermaroller 1mm last night for the first time.

Will this help along with neck exercises?

Also what other topical/cosmetic treatments can help with this condition. Smile

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:02 am

I find mine are far less visible when I work on gentle exfoliation and hydration - lotion cleanser never foaming, light lactic acid peels and a moisturiser containing lanolin and aloe vera. Dermarolling can help, especially if you use topicals to increase collagen production alongside. What is your routine at present?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:13 am

Hi Firefox,

Thank you for your advice.

I've just started to use the dermaroller 1mm, every 3 weeks. Is 1mm okay or do I need to go to 1.5mm?

I buffer with Retin a .25 3 times a week building my way up to .5 and also use vitamin c 10% serum with sunscreen in mornings.

I might start using glycolic acid 30% but I don't know whether this will be too much.

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:46 am

SkinAndBeauty wrote:

Hi Firefox,

Thank you for your advice.

I've just started to use the dermaroller 1mm, every 3 weeks. Is 1mm okay or do I need to go to 1.5mm?

I buffer with Retin a .25 3 times a week building my way up to .5 and also use vitamin c 10% serum with sunscreen in mornings.

I might start using glycolic acid 30% but I don't know whether this will be too much.

1mm should be fine if you are getting pinpoint bleeding but AFAIK most authorities recommend no more often than once every four weeks. Plus you should lay off Retin-A and L-AA for a few days after you dermaroll to let the irritation subside, so that is pretty disruptive every third week. Are you using the acid form L-ascorbic acid for vitamin C? If so maybe switch to a gentler non-acid form such as MAP or AA2G. Why are you pushing for a higher strength of Retin-A if you have to buffer and only use three times a week? More is not better. You haven't said what cleanser, moisturiser or sunscreen you are using?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:06 am

Hi,

Cleanser – Cetaphil

Sunscreen – Nivea sun moisturising lotion spf 50

Moisturiser(s) – Palmer's cocoa butter, coconut oil or eau thermale avene then on the days I derma roll - forever young matriderm rich cream – which contains to name a few Matrixyl 3000, Hyaluronic acid, and vitamin e.

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:29 am

Cetaphil contains sulphate surfactants, IMO switch to a lotion cleaner or product based on cocoamidopropyl betaine. Hopefully you will find this reduces underlying (invisible) irritation so makes it easier to scale up your Retin-A use as well as boosting hydration. If the Nivea contains any chemical sunscreen agents it needs to be applied to clean bare skin not layered over a serum or moisturiser. Maybe try a moisturiser containing the humectants or lipids found in a healthy skin barrier - cholesterol, long chain saturates stearic and palmitic plus ceramides?

Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:42 am

Thank you very much, you have been extremely helpful I shall certainly consider those. Smile

What would you recommend as a non chemical broad spectrum sunscreen so I can apply vitamin c serum underneath - that's fairly cheap?

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:16 pm

Devita Body Block is well thought of.

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:44 pm

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:58 pm

I also have neck bands and have been working on them for about 6 months. The other day I noticed that they have softened quite a bit. I did a double take in the mirror. I am very pleased. I always got complimented on my skin but it is looking exceptional lately.

I have been using Skin Biology Copper Peptide and Paula's choice retinol serum in the evenings since the beginning of the year. I incorporated NCNs Collagen Elastan and DNA serums in the mornings in April. I also have been doing glycolic or TCA peels about every 2-3 weeks since the beginning of the year. And I use SPF 30 on face and neck.

It is hard to say what in this routine is working but it has worked for me. I will try NCNs copper peptide and retinol after I finish up what is in my closet.

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:19 pm

bethany wrote:

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

That's depressing. All that pain and no gain. Sad

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:24 pm

CookieD wrote:

bethany wrote:

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

That's depressing. All that pain and no gain. Sad

Tell me about it! Sad

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:43 pm

These are two youtube short videos that Christine Byer(EDS member) has made regarding microcurrent and dealing with a saggy neck and neck bands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaEyoaywcgM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJ-K3fY_vQ&feature=relmfu

free skin care · Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:51 pm

I saw improvements on a few of my neck bands using CPs on them. One of them definitely diminished (faint enough to not notice as much). I haven't seen as much improvement in them lately, but then I haven't been targeting that area either. I don't think CPs will get rid of them entirely (depending on how deep yours are) but they can help some.

Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:16 am

foxe wrote:

I saw improvements on a few of my neck bands using CPs on them. One of them definitely diminished (faint enough to not notice as much). I haven't seen as much improvement in them lately, but then I haven't been targeting that area either. I don't think CPs will get rid of them entirely (depending on how deep yours are) but they can help some.

Wow thank you for the replies, wasn't expecting as many as this!

Hi foxe,
I was wondering I'm not familiar with the abbreviation CP as I'm new here could you clarify that for me, plus I'm happy that you've had some success with yours.

free skin care · Sat Jul 21, 2012 9:59 am

CP stands for Copper Peptides. You can read about them here
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?tid=37752

free skin care · Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:21 am

Is it urban myth or true that the amount of banding matches your age, one for every ten years if so I should have sobssssssssss 5, but I don't, maybe one or two light ones Confused

Also one shouldn't use a product with water in it on the neck, its so thin and water weighs it down, causing more? Is this one true too?

free skin care · Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:31 am

Tiny wrote:

Is it urban myth or true that the amount of banding matches your age, one for every ten years if so I should have sobssssssssss 5, but I don't, maybe one or two light ones Confused

Also one shouldn't use a product with water in it on the neck, its so thin and water weighs it down, causing more? Is this one true too?

I think you are thinking of trees (you know the rings equal the trees years?). Laughing

Seriously, I have never heard either of these things. Where did you hear and/or read this from?

free skin care · Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:55 am

rileygirl wrote:

Tiny wrote:

Is it urban myth or true that the amount of banding matches your age, one for every ten years if so I should have sobssssssssss 5, but I don't, maybe one or two light ones Confused

Also one shouldn't use a product with water in it on the neck, its so thin and water weighs it down, causing more? Is this one true too?

I think you are thinking of trees (you know the rings equal the trees years?). Laughing

Seriously, I have never heard either of these things. Where did you hear and/or read this from?

I've heard it forever, it is like tree banding. They say you can tell a womans age by the bands, I'd be about 25, so I don't think it works. But the no water in neck products, I've just heard for years. I've heard same for eyes on no water in products.

free skin care · Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:24 am

The amount of water in a blob of skincare product is miniscule in comparison with the amount that washes over your skin each day in the shower. It is known over-wetting can flush out the skin's natural moisturising factors, so arguably we should not shower! Shock

If you use anhydrous skincare you can't apply humectants (water attracting ingredients) like the ones found naturally in our skin barrier. All you can apply is occlusives and emollients.

free skin care · Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:58 am

bethany wrote:

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

Neck bands (horizontal as well as the vertical cording) are muscle related, so no amount of needling, lasering or skin treatment will banish them. It is akin to the eleven lines; while needling or lasering will rid you of the fine etched surface lines that result from years of corrugator muscle flexing, nothing aside from Botox or surgically cutting the corrugator will address the eleven lines themselves, the deeper muscle-based grooves. Botox has been used successfully for both neck banding and cording, however.

free skin care · Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:45 am

EthelM wrote:

bethany wrote:

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

Neck bands (horizontal as well as the vertical cording) are muscle related, so no amount of needling, lasering or skin treatment will banish them. It is akin to the eleven lines; while needling or lasering will rid you of the fine etched surface lines that result from years of corrugator muscle flexing, nothing aside from Botox or surgically cutting the corrugator will address the eleven lines themselves, the deeper muscle-based grooves. Botox has been used successfully for both neck banding and cording, however.

Hmmm...I knew muscles impacted the vertical, but hadn't heard about the horizontal. Too bad I am resistant to Botox, sigh.

free skin care · Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:24 am

EthelM wrote:

bethany wrote:

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

Neck bands (horizontal as well as the vertical cording) are muscle related, so no amount of needling, lasering or skin treatment will banish them. It is akin to the eleven lines; while needling or lasering will rid you of the fine etched surface lines that result from years of corrugator muscle flexing, nothing aside from Botox or surgically cutting the corrugator will address the eleven lines themselves, the deeper muscle-based grooves. Botox has been used successfully for both neck banding and cording, however.

I've had two horizontal neck bands since I was in my early twenties, hurtling towards 40 now and my face has only the faint first forehead lines. In my case I think the lines are from spending a lot of time looking down - bookworm as a child, eternal student as an adult. Embarassed

free skin care · Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:09 am

However they develop, the underlying cause is muscular. The topical "imprint" of the underlying muscle contracture can be fine lines, a crease, etc. and the superficial lines can sometimes be treated, especially on the corrugator lines, but a muscle paralyzer like Botox is really a necessary adjunct.

free skin care · Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:48 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

EthelM wrote:

bethany wrote:

FYI that I repeatedly rolled my neck bands for a year with a 1.5mm and saw no improvement.

Neck bands (horizontal as well as the vertical cording) are muscle related, so no amount of needling, lasering or skin treatment will banish them. It is akin to the eleven lines; while needling or lasering will rid you of the fine etched surface lines that result from years of corrugator muscle flexing, nothing aside from Botox or surgically cutting the corrugator will address the eleven lines themselves, the deeper muscle-based grooves. Botox has been used successfully for both neck banding and cording, however.

I've had two horizontal neck bands since I was in my early twenties, hurtling towards 40 now and my face has only the faint first forehead lines. In my case I think the lines are from spending a lot of time looking down - bookworm as a child, eternal student as an adult. Embarassed

Ditto on the bookworm. Looking down at my keyboard has doomed me as an adult too, sigh.

I'll have to pull out my facial exercise books and see if I can reverse them.

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