Author |
Message |
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:10 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
They don't control the cosmeceuticals. |
But my theory is that they don't control the cosmeceuticals because they don't actually do anything in terms of anti-aging!
I believe that DrJ did address the safety of cytokines and pointed out that it was a totally different scenario to that of stem cells. My memory is now sketchy on what he said - and heaven knows which thread it was on. Maybe someone (Havana?) can dig it up. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:26 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
If there were real risks I would have thought that the FDA and other medical authorities would have been all over this. This is why I asked the question above, how does a cytokine topical compare with Retin-A? |
Not necessarily. They don't control the cosmeceuticals. They go after the advertising/wording for a product, but I think it would take several people having a real issue before the FDA would think of stepping in. |
With our focus on short-term over the counter products that require little regulatory approval, the Company is already achieving a strong revenue stream that is independently supporting the development of key proof of concept and clinical trials of our therapeutic products and procedures which address larger, more lucrative markets. With successful growth from product sales and expansion of our clinical service business model it is believed that the Company will have the ability to do an IPO within the next 5 years. Moreover, potential in-licensing, or acquisition offers from major pharmaceutical and cosmetic groups give the company the potential to do an IPO as early as 2-3 years.
http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/investor-information/
Above is information from Invitrx site. Focus on the first sentence "requires little regulatory approval" I didn't bring this up to make any company look bad. They are all like this. Just want to make a point that none of these companies have much oversight. It really is buyer beware and only each individual can make their own decision whether they want to use these kinds of products. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:31 pm |
CookieD wrote: |
Focus on the first sentence "requires little regulatory approval" I didn't bring this up to make any company look bad. They are all like this. Just want to make a point that none of these companies have much oversight. It really is buyer beware and only each individual can make their own decision whether they want to use these kinds of products. |
Totally agree! |
|
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:36 pm |
CookieD wrote: |
rileygirl wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
If there were real risks I would have thought that the FDA and other medical authorities would have been all over this. This is why I asked the question above, how does a cytokine topical compare with Retin-A? |
Not necessarily. They don't control the cosmeceuticals. They go after the advertising/wording for a product, but I think it would take several people having a real issue before the FDA would think of stepping in. |
With our focus on short-term over the counter products that require little regulatory approval, the Company is already achieving a strong revenue stream that is independently supporting the development of key proof of concept and clinical trials of our therapeutic products and procedures which address larger, more lucrative markets. With successful growth from product sales and expansion of our clinical service business model it is believed that the Company will have the ability to do an IPO within the next 5 years. Moreover, potential in-licensing, or acquisition offers from major pharmaceutical and cosmetic groups give the company the potential to do an IPO as early as 2-3 years.
http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/investor-information/
Above is information from Invitrx site. Focus on the first sentence "requires little regulatory approval" I didn't bring this up to make any company look bad. They are all like this. Just want to make a point that none of these companies have much oversight. It really is buyer beware and only each individual can make their own decision whether they want to use these kinds of products. |
Not defending but on that same link if you click "Therapeutic Procedure" you find the following which I have to assume has been and continues to be heavily regulated? Are we thinking they are willing to risk their medical reputation by being more careless with their skin care line?
Your Alternative to Traditional Joint and Bone Surgery
The Invitrx Therapeutics procedure is a breakthrough, non-surgical treatment option for people suffering from moderate to severe joint or bone pain due to injury and other conditions. If you are experiencing knee, hip or shoulder pain, you have probably been given two choices: pain management or surgery. And if you are under the age of 65, neither option is optimal.
Surgery can be potentially adverse for one’s health, complicated, and expensive. Many surgical procedures used to treat certain conditions commonly produce unsuccessful results.
Stem cells can be easily administered to problematic areas via injection. This simple procedure avoids the complicated and dangerous nature of surgical procedures. Invitrx’s Therapeutics Procedure can be used as an alternative to the following ailments:
Knee Surgery Alternative
Avascular Necrosis
Osteoarthritis of the Knee
Chronic Knee Pain
Limited range of motion of the knee
Runners Knee
Knee Injuries like meniscus, ACL, or MCL tears
Hip Surgery Alternative
Hip Pain
Osteonecrosis of the hip
Osteoarthritis of the hip
Hip Bursitis
Difficlty walking up or down stairs or trouble standing from a seated position
Shoulder Surgery Alternative
Rotator cuf tendonitis
Shoulder arthritis
Shoulder bursitis
Rotator cuff tears
Hand Surgery Alternative
Thumb arthritis (basal joint arthritis)
Ankle Surgery Alternative
Pain caused by cartilage loss
Pain from tendon tears or overstretched ligaments
Back Surgery Alternative
Bulging or herniated lumbar discs
Low back pain
Buttock and leg pain
Numbness and tingling in legs/feet
To find out if the Invitrx Therapeutics procedure right for you, please call us Toll Free at 1-877-468-4879.
http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/therapeutic-procedure/ |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:47 pm |
But DM - are we comparing apples with apples? I'm sure the injection of stemcells would come under some kind of regulatory control - topical application of cytokines does not. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:48 pm |
CookieD wrote: |
rileygirl wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
If there were real risks I would have thought that the FDA and other medical authorities would have been all over this. This is why I asked the question above, how does a cytokine topical compare with Retin-A? |
Not necessarily. They don't control the cosmeceuticals. They go after the advertising/wording for a product, but I think it would take several people having a real issue before the FDA would think of stepping in. |
With our focus on short-term over the counter products that require little regulatory approval, the Company is already achieving a strong revenue stream that is independently supporting the development of key proof of concept and clinical trials of our therapeutic products and procedures which address larger, more lucrative markets. With successful growth from product sales and expansion of our clinical service business model it is believed that the Company will have the ability to do an IPO within the next 5 years. Moreover, potential in-licensing, or acquisition offers from major pharmaceutical and cosmetic groups give the company the potential to do an IPO as early as 2-3 years.
http://invitrxtherapeutics.squarespace.com/investor-information/
Above is information from Invitrx site. Focus on the first sentence "requires little regulatory approval" I didn't bring this up to make any company look bad. They are all like this. Just want to make a point that none of these companies have much oversight. It really is buyer beware and only each individual can make their own decision whether they want to use these kinds of products. |
Not to sidetrack this because I am interested in the underlying questions myself and since I can't answer them, I've set out.
But If I read this right, the real game here by ANY of these companies is to create the product that works with enough statistics to say it does, so that they are first in line for the buy out by bigger names, ie. Loreal, Este Lauder, whoever. Which would make this a different ball game here, were talking hugeeeeeeeeeee money. No wonder we've seen the games we've seen of late. Makes a lot of stuff make more sense to me now. I know this doesn't answer safety issues but certainly answers a lot of other "why's" for me. Thanks Cookie, I never saw this.
Also Keliu if memory serves alot of information might be in the ISCO first thread.
eta: Just an example Prevage is now marketed under Elizabeth Arden, ff memory serves right, one of the pharmacutical companies had it first. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:15 pm |
Tiny wrote: |
eta: Just an example Prevage is now marketed under Elizabeth Arden, ff memory serves right, one of the pharmacutical companies had it first. |
Prevage has always been marketed under EA. Allergan has the rights to Prevage MD. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:18 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
rileygirl wrote: |
They don't control the cosmeceuticals. |
But my theory is that they don't control the cosmeceuticals because they don't actually do anything in terms of anti-aging!
|
LOL. You may be right! Though I do think OTC topicals can make some difference/improvement in skin, and I definitely think they can be preventive in helping one look better as they age. Look at topical C. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:34 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
rileygirl wrote: |
They don't control the cosmeceuticals. |
But my theory is that they don't control the cosmeceuticals because they don't actually do anything in terms of anti-aging! |
Well, I'm bringing this conversation full circle, because I'm happy with my stem cell product results - so I guess that means I think they work. But we can certainly debate the definition of "work" |
|
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:35 pm |
edit: I think I am too tired to make any sense. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:44 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
But DM - are we comparing apples with apples? I'm sure the injection of stemcells would come under some kind of regulatory control - topical application of cytokines does not. |
I am just tossing the idea out there, I think in some of their medical procedures they are now using cytokines and not full stem cells? I am not swearing that is the case? |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:29 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
But DM - are we comparing apples with apples? I'm sure the injection of stemcells would come under some kind of regulatory control - topical application of cytokines does not. |
I am just tossing the idea out there, I think in some of their medical procedures they are now using cytokines and not full stem cells? I am not swearing that is the case? |
This was something I found when searching for information on the treatment that Kobe Bryant, A Rod etc. had in Germany. It has some good information about Regenokine and biological treatments vs. PRP therapy. It also talks about vague FDA regulations that mandates that all human tissues(such as blood and bone marrow) can only be minimally manipulated or else they are classified as a drug and subject to much stricter governmental regulations. I don't know if anyone else is interested in this but I'm a big basketball fan and I knew Kobe had some kind of stem cell procedure done this summer and last. The article has some useful information maybe.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7796225/kobe-bryant-dr-chris-renna-regenokine-knee-treatment |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:47 pm |
That is a very interesting article. In Australia, we recently had some doctors come out and advise against going overseas for stem cell treatmenta as they say the technology is still in its infancy and not yet proven to be totally effective. This is what makes me wonder about how effective topically delivered cytokines can be. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
|
|
|
Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:08 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
That is a very interesting article. In Australia, we recently had some doctors come out and advise against going overseas for stem cell treatmenta as they say the technology is still in its infancy and not yet proven to be totally effective. This is what makes me wonder about how effective topically delivered cytokines can be. |
I don't know if all the different treatments work but if you follow anything about the Lakers and Kobe Bryant, it really worked for him. He said his knee was bone scraping on bone and he was even thinking he might have to retire soon. Now this is a guy with an off the chart pain tolerance. After he had the procedure it was like he was 5 years younger. He went back this summer to get another treatment. I think 4 or 5 other NBA players got it done also. Lots of other pro athletes are doing it also. Now keep in mind this still doesn't prove that these lotions/potions are safe. Just a little more information about different things that are out there. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:41 am |
CookieD wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
That is a very interesting article. In Australia, we recently had some doctors come out and advise against going overseas for stem cell treatmenta as they say the technology is still in its infancy and not yet proven to be totally effective. This is what makes me wonder about how effective topically delivered cytokines can be. |
I don't know if all the different treatments work but if you follow anything about the Lakers and Kobe Bryant, it really worked for him. He said his knee was bone scraping on bone and he was even thinking he might have to retire soon. Now this is a guy with an off the chart pain tolerance. After he had the procedure it was like he was 5 years younger. He went back this summer to get another treatment. I think 4 or 5 other NBA players got it done also. Lots of other pro athletes are doing it also. Now keep in mind this still doesn't prove that these lotions/potions are safe. Just a little more information about different things that are out there. |
I have to first agree with Panda on results because I am seeing them with ReLuma.
Tiger Woods is another example of an athlete who had treatments with PRP on a knee with some rather impressive results.
What I keep going back to in my mind which I posted on ReLuma (not review thread) was to my understanding how Suzanne Sommers who had BC had breast reconstruction using the concentrated cells from her own tummy fat then discarding any "bad cells" using only the "good cells" and it has been at least 5 years with bi yearly checks and all is fine.
I can not help but think that as Invitrix is also performing this procedure for both reconstruction as well as augmentation that they are not about to risk all by being lazy with what goes into the skin care they put out, their reputation is on the line? Might be naive on my part but it is just where my mind tends to go right or wrong only time will tell. |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:33 am |
DarkMoon wrote: |
. . .
I can not help but think that as Invitrix is also performing this procedure for both reconstruction as well as augmentation that they are not about to risk all by being lazy with what goes into the skin care they put out, their reputation is on the line? Might be naive on my part but it is just where my mind tends to go right or wrong only time will tell. |
I'm with DM on this one. Maybe it's naive, but it's one thing to be a start up skin care company with little to lose and it's another thing to be a biotechnology company focused on regenerative medicine that is willing to bet the ranch on it's reputation by putting out a shoddy (or worse, dangerous) skin care line in an attempt to generate revenue. That makes for both bad scientists and bad business people, because if the company can't handle superficial improvements in skin, how can they possibly be expected to use their technology to treat severe diseases? Now with all that said, the past few years have definitely shown us that companies are willing to make extremely poor decisions in an attempt to enrich the bottom line, but I am hoping that this is not the case. |
|
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:34 am |
I just wanted to note that most of these treatments that different athletes are doing use
THEIR OWN stem cells. There is a big difference between this and using other stem cells(1 step further removed or cytokines which are even further removed) I'm sure there are many reason for this(great physical shape/better cells, no fear of body rejection, no fear of problems down the line with drug testing for their sport etc.)
It does seem like a lot of the different things/procedures I'm reading about all kinds of people are using their own cells. Like all these PRP therapy or stem cell face lift etc. This is a lot different then putting a product on your face made of cytokines.
Form a strictly financial outlook on these companies you are not a "big dog" in the industry if your are looking to sell preferred stock at a dollar or two a share. Now I don't look upon this as a bad thing because it is such a new industry that is growing very quickly. The best companies will rise to the top. But I think as of right now there are a lot of companies fighting for market share and I don't think any company has risen to the top.
ETA: If a lot of people are using their own stem cells how much of a market is there going to be for any thing other then cosmetic/skin care products? I guess there will be some diseases where people are not able or don't want to use their stem cells but how about the majority? |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:34 am |
DarkMoon wrote: |
CookieD wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
That is a very interesting article. In Australia, we recently had some doctors come out and advise against going overseas for stem cell treatmenta as they say the technology is still in its infancy and not yet proven to be totally effective. This is what makes me wonder about how effective topically delivered cytokines can be. |
I don't know if all the different treatments work but if you follow anything about the Lakers and Kobe Bryant, it really worked for him. He said his knee was bone scraping on bone and he was even thinking he might have to retire soon. Now this is a guy with an off the chart pain tolerance. After he had the procedure it was like he was 5 years younger. He went back this summer to get another treatment. I think 4 or 5 other NBA players got it done also. Lots of other pro athletes are doing it also. Now keep in mind this still doesn't prove that these lotions/potions are safe. Just a little more information about different things that are out there. |
I have to first agree with Panda on results because I am seeing them with ReLuma.
Tiger Woods is another example of an athlete who had treatments with PRP on a knee with some rather impressive results.
What I keep going back to in my mind which I posted on ReLuma (not review thread) was to my understanding how Suzanne Sommers who had BC had breast reconstruction using the concentrated cells from her own tummy fat then discarding any "bad cells" using only the "good cells" and it has been at least 5 years with bi yearly checks and all is fine.
I can not help but think that as Invitrix is also performing this procedure for both reconstruction as well as augmentation that they are not about to risk all by being lazy with what goes into the skin care they put out, their reputation is on the line? Might be naive on my part but it is just where my mind tends to go right or wrong only time will tell. |
I agree totally on this. They obviously have good procedures in place. They know their craft and have been doing this for quite long time. We know it is all done in their own specialist lab. |
_________________ 50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:12 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
But DM - are we comparing apples with apples? I'm sure the injection of stemcells would come under some kind of regulatory control - topical application of cytokines does not. |
True, Keliu, and moreover, I doubt that a failed attempt at a cosmetic application (which is indeed merely a revenue stream for these companies) would be at all devastating to the reputation of the company. If the more important medical applications are successful, I don't see why anyone in the scientific community (nor in the investment community, for that matter) would care. The medical application is the big gun...and, one cannot compare the efficacy of the medical application to that of the cosmetic application. |
|
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:31 pm |
EthelM wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
But DM - are we comparing apples with apples? I'm sure the injection of stemcells would come under some kind of regulatory control - topical application of cytokines does not. |
True, Keliu, and moreover, I doubt that a failed attempt at a cosmetic application (which is indeed merely a revenue stream for these companies) would be at all devastating to the reputation of the company. If the more important medical applications are successful, I don't see why anyone in the scientific community (nor in the investment community, for that matter) would care. The medical application is the big gun...and, one cannot compare the efficacy of the medical application to that of the cosmetic application. |
My post was two part so it appears that has been confused.
Results matter to me because I am seeing them period.
The second portion regarding risking a reputation over cosmetics when also in the medical field was in regards to Safety not Efficacy. I can not imagine that being taken as lightly as what you are saying. |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:22 pm |
One other point that we haven't addressed here is that some of these lines require you to purchase a complimentary product to the serum in order to gain maximum results. We are told that it is necessary for both products to work in tandem with each other.
I tend to view this as a marketing ploy and I don't like this approach. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
|
|
|
Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:01 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
One other point that we haven't addressed here is that some of these lines require you to purchase a complimentary product to the serum in order to gain maximum results. We are told that it is necessary for both products to work in tandem with each other.
I tend to view this as a marketing ploy and I don't like this approach. |
Agreed, but everything is about marketing ploys and add ons these days, sigh. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:54 am |
bethany wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
One other point that we haven't addressed here is that some of these lines require you to purchase a complimentary product to the serum in order to gain maximum results. We are told that it is necessary for both products to work in tandem with each other.
I tend to view this as a marketing ploy and I don't like this approach. |
Agreed, but everything is about marketing ploys and add ons these days, sigh. |
If skin has receptors that will only take so many growth factors, the need for multiple products is a marketing ploy. Either the base product doesn't contain sufficient stem cell actives, OR the stem cell actives from the complimentary products are just being wasted.
I suppose that complimentary products gives the user more options, but in most cases you are paying a high price for stuff you are getting no benefit from. |
|
|
|
Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:57 pm |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
|
|