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Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:43 am |
Stem cells from plants can't be integrated in human skin (just as well). But maybe they produce growth factors etc. that do have an effect on human skin (like cytokines). I know Kinetin is a plant growth factor, there surely must be others. And we also know that isoflavones, which are from plants, can behave more or less as hormones in the skin. So my guess is, the whole 'stem cell' story is bunk but the plant material from cells that are set to multiply could very well be very good for the skin. |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:08 am |
bethany wrote: |
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A small study of 20 patients age 37 to 64 demonstrated the impact of a Swiss apple stem cell extract on skin wrinkling. The test cream contained 2 percent Swiss apple stem cell extract, and subjects applied the cream twice daily to their crow's feet for 28 days. The test cream reduced wrinkle depth by 8 percent in two weeks and 15 percent in four weeks over baseline. |
What is interesting is that they can share this info for apple stem cell product results, but where is it for the human stem cell products? Maybe the stats just aren't good enough to share? Visia is cheap and accessible (I have posted my own stats here on EDS in the past), so where are the numbers from the pros? |
I am pretty sure LoopyLori posted this link before but heres a few:
http://www.cellvitals.com/before-and-after
http://www.buyrelumatoday.com/before-and-after/ |
_________________ Reluma, PMD. Never sit on a fence, you get shot by both sides. |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:20 am |
I did use an apple stem cell product before from Platinum skin care when it first came out. The nice thing about this was it was a 35% apple stem cell extract. So you could use it on its own or mix it into another product. A lot of the products for sale are a lot weaker. It was a small amount(1/4 oz). It cost $42.95. I think when it first came out it was cheaper.
The bad thing about this product is I never saw any results. I bought 2 bottles because I thought maybe it just needed more time. I used it on its own. Just put 3 or 4 drops on my face. If someone wants to try apple stem cells this might be a good way to do that but since it didn't work for me I don't feel right recommending it. I don't know if the DIY site are selling this but that might be another avenue. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:22 am |
CookieD wrote: |
I did use an apple stem cell product before from Platinum skin care when it first came out. The nice thing about this was it was a 35% apple stem cell extract. So you could use it on its own or mix it into another product. A lot of the products for sale are a lot weaker. It was a small amount(1/4 oz). It cost $42.95. I think when it first came out it was cheaper and they have a lot of sales.
The bad thing about this product is I never saw any results. I bought 2 bottles because I thought maybe it just needed more time. I used it on its own. Just put 3 or 4 drops on my face. If someone wants to try apple stem cells this might be a good way to do that but since it didn't work for me I don't feel right recommending it. I don't know if the DIY site are selling this but that might be another avenue. |
I used products with apple sc too and saw no difference as well, but that said, I prob only used them for about 4 months. |
_________________ Reluma, PMD. Never sit on a fence, you get shot by both sides. |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:30 am |
Tiny wrote: |
CookieD wrote: |
I did use an apple stem cell product before from Platinum skin care when it first came out. The nice thing about this was it was a 35% apple stem cell extract. So you could use it on its own or mix it into another product. A lot of the products for sale are a lot weaker. It was a small amount(1/4 oz). It cost $42.95. I think when it first came out it was cheaper and they have a lot of sales.
The bad thing about this product is I never saw any results. I bought 2 bottles because I thought maybe it just needed more time. I used it on its own. Just put 3 or 4 drops on my face. If someone wants to try apple stem cells this might be a good way to do that but since it didn't work for me I don't feel right recommending it. I don't know if the DIY site are selling this but that might be another avenue. |
I used products with apple sc too and saw no difference as well, but that said, I prob only used them for about 4 months. |
Tiny do you know what %/concentration the apple sc were in the product you used? |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:31 am |
CookieD wrote: |
Tiny wrote: |
CookieD wrote: |
I did use an apple stem cell product before from Platinum skin care when it first came out. The nice thing about this was it was a 35% apple stem cell extract. So you could use it on its own or mix it into another product. A lot of the products for sale are a lot weaker. It was a small amount(1/4 oz). It cost $42.95. I think when it first came out it was cheaper and they have a lot of sales.
The bad thing about this product is I never saw any results. I bought 2 bottles because I thought maybe it just needed more time. I used it on its own. Just put 3 or 4 drops on my face. If someone wants to try apple stem cells this might be a good way to do that but since it didn't work for me I don't feel right recommending it. I don't know if the DIY site are selling this but that might be another avenue. |
I used products with apple sc too and saw no difference as well, but that said, I prob only used them for about 4 months. |
Tiny do you know what %/concentration the apple sc were in the product you used? |
I have no idea! I think I used one by Isomers, not 100% sure, but thats prob it. |
_________________ Reluma, PMD. Never sit on a fence, you get shot by both sides. |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:50 pm |
Both Riley and Lotusesther have brought up some very good points. Plants can certainly have a dramatic effect on our body - they can even poison us! The problem, I think, is in the stem cell connection. This is probably a misnomer - but then, that is also the case in the human stem cell serums - they don't actually contain any stem cells.
At the moment, Lancome are promising miracles from their latest offering, a serum made from some rare rose. This garnered some scoffing from DrJ and some suitably cynical remarks from myself. However, are we to believe that Lancome would spend serious R & D dollars on something that is completely bogus? I'm prepared to give the plant stem cell serums the benefit of the doubt, but I want to see some concrete research. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:40 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
Both Riley and Lotusesther have brought up some very good points. Plants can certainly have a dramatic effect on our body - they can even poison us! The problem, I think, is in the stem cell connection. This is probably a misnomer - but then, that is also the case in the human stem cell serums - they don't actually contain any stem cells.
At the moment, Lancome are promising miracles from their latest offering, a serum made from some rare rose. This garnered some scoffing from DrJ and some suitably cynical remarks from myself. However, are we to believe that Lancome would spend serious R & D dollars on something that is completely bogus? I'm prepared to give the plant stem cell serums the benefit of the doubt, but I want to see some concrete research. |
Here is an interesting article:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/apr2012_Activate-Self-Renewing-Skin-Stem-Cells_01.htm
There are some studies footnoted at the bottom. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:52 pm |
Interesting that they're also discussing roses. Mind you, Rosewater is a very old beauty tonic, it's been used for centuries. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:57 am |
Keliu wrote: |
Interesting that they're also discussing roses. Mind you, Rosewater is a very old beauty tonic, it's been used for centuries. |
I agree plants are and have worked wonders for our medicines, why not our skincare? I don't poo bah them at all. But apple stem cell creams did nothing for me, could of been one I used, formulations are everything. |
_________________ Reluma, PMD. Never sit on a fence, you get shot by both sides. |
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:31 am |
Tiny wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
Interesting that they're also discussing roses. Mind you, Rosewater is a very old beauty tonic, it's been used for centuries. |
I agree plants are and have worked wonders for our medicines, why not our skincare? I don't poo bah them at all. But apple stem cell creams did nothing for me, could of been one I used, formulations are everything. |
I think it would be of interest for people to post their experiences with any products with apple sc/rose etc. Have you used them? What product? % of active, if you know? How long and what kind of results if any?
It's in no way scientific information but I think there is a lot of value in user experience.
I've already posted this but I'll say it again.
I used a apple stem cell extract(35%) from platinum skin care for 4 or 5 months. I that time I didn't see any changes in my skin.
I am not saying all these products are bad but this one did not work for me. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:48 am |
I’m willing to buy the argument that there is value to all forms of stem cell derived products (plant, animal, and human) and that it ultimately ends up being a matter of degree. I can certainly see where plant stems cells might be great anti-oxidants. I’m not terribly impressed by the reported 15% reduction in wrinkle depth of the swiss apple stem cell extract (as 15% is hardly noticeable). The colostrum I know nothing about, but I am not as comfortable with animal growth factors as I am with human. And, the human stem cell derived products (regardless of source of stem cells) I do think work and produce a visible difference, BUT they are pricey, progress may be slow and they are not going to be the fountain of youth.
We have read several reports on the forum (including mine) where the addition of growth factors has an effect on the skin such that actinic keratosis and milia have disappeared. This suggests to me that something is happening below the skin surface. On a personal note, I had basal cell removed from my forehead a few years ago and the plastic surgeon gave me Efudex as a follow-up to get rid of the remaining actinic keratosis. Efudex is a very nasty topical drug and I was reluctant to use it. Now after nearly six months on Lifeline ALL the actinic keratosis are gone. Several others have reported disappearing milia – another difficult thing to get rid of. And lastly, I have small black spot on my lower lip (technical name is labial melanosis) that is nearly gone (yes, I do use the stuff on my lips). It’s reduced in size by at least half and lightened in color significantly.
So, I guess this is my attempt at making a case that the stem cell derived products work pretty deep to make physiological changes to the skin, but time and patience are necessary. |
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Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:30 pm |
EGF, and other growth factors, are the same for most mammals. So it makes no difference if you use egf derived from human cells or from colostrum. |
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:35 pm |
“In 2001, two independent double-blind studies testing topical creams containing either natural or bio-engineered GF were presented to the Society of Investigative Dermatology. The results were surprising – when applied to skin twice a day for four to six weeks, both types of creams produced better results than Botox! Each study showed significant increases in production of collagen, hyaluronic acid, elastin, fibroblasts, and epidermal thickness.
This is something I found interesting on that link. I wonder if there is a way to find that study and to know what product they were using? |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:34 pm |
Good article Riley. I'm not the worrying type - but I have to say, that this business of cell division and cancer does concern me. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:57 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
Good article Riley. I'm not the worrying type - but I have to say, that this business of cell division and cancer does concern me. |
Yes, it also concerns me. I just can't make up my mind if we are doing more harm than good sometimes! |
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:16 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
Good article Riley. I'm not the worrying type - but I have to say, that this business of cell division and cancer does concern me. |
Yes, it also concerns me. I just can't make up my mind if we are doing more harm than good sometimes! |
And yet she gives AnteAge her highest endorsement. What do we make of that?
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/05/30/product-review-cellese-anteage-serum-accelerator/ |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:07 pm |
That is a good question! |
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Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:01 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
That is a good question! |
Isn't that really because it was a paid for endorsement? |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 12:40 am |
bethany wrote: |
rileygirl wrote: |
That is a good question! |
Isn't that really because it was a paid for endorsement? |
Is she known to be one that compromises her ethics?
I wonder if anyone asked her about that endorsement... |
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:01 am |
The endorsement and advertising were discussed on EDS earlier.
Please let's not drag all that back into the discussion. |
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:18 am |
Lotusesther wrote: |
The endorsement and advertising were discussed on EDS earlier.
Please let's not drag all that back into the discussion. |
"Required disclosure: I was mailed a sample of this product by Cellese for potential review. According to the Policies, a sample does not guarantee a review, positive or otherwise."
How large was that sample, that is a paid for banner ad and that plays into the equation so I believe it is relevant, discussing that is not dragging anything up!
"Moderator on June 1, 2012 at 4:33 pm said:
Hi all. We realize this is a heated topic, and we want to address it properly. Please bear with us until Nicki can follow up.
-Moderator JD"
That has been up for months now why is it heated and why are comments closed?
All quotes from FD site, all makes one wonder????? That "review went up before she closed down comments and what happened to someone being a writer on her blog?
http://www.futurederm.com/2012/05/30/product-review-cellese-anteage-serum-accelerator/ |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:29 am |
DarkMoon, I think this simply means we can discard the 'review' on FD as advertorial. |
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