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Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:56 am |
catski wrote: |
Cookie, can you share why you are thinking of rolling, having done Reaura? I'm very unclear about what to do alongside the laser.. Not sure if it'd be suitable to do Stop treatments, either. |
Hi Catski, There are some doctors who think that laser treatments (because of the heating of the skin) are not as good as dermarolling. I don't have the links but I know it has been talked about on EDS before. So just to cover all my bases I am going to do both things. I am just about to finish my second round with the ReAura and I will wait 6 weeks and either do a dermaroll at home or try a Dermapen treatment at my dermatologist. That will also give my face some "down time" from the laser. Although both Tria and ReAura say it is fine to do a series of treatments after waiting 4 weeks between the last round. I like to take a more cautious approach.
I have read that doing both LED and microcurrent along with the laser treatment is good but I'm not sure about the stop (either good or bad) |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:16 pm |
I appreciate the excellent suggestion to have the treatment performed before purchasing the unit.
I have made an appointment for a local consultation. It will take every bit of restraint that I have to not tell them how they should do it lol. My concern is they'll try to talk me into short needles. We'll see.
BFG |
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Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:19 pm |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
I appreciate the excellent suggestion to have the treatment performed before purchasing the unit.
I have made an appointment for a local consultation. It will take every bit of restraint that I have to not tell them how they should do it lol. My concern is they'll try to talk me into short needles. We'll see.
BFG |
I would think you should be able to have a lot of input into your treatment - especially once you tell them about how familiar you are with the device and the process in general. I've spent plenty of time reviewing all the info on the Dermapen website, and have decided that if I repeat the procedure I will request the .5 needle length. The 1.5 was just too much for me. |
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Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:13 am |
Yes, I can almost picture myself saying something like...."Well, Dr. Fernandes indicates needle lengths of at least 1.0mm are required to achieve collagen induction..."
This ought to be interesting.
BFG |
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Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:58 pm |
I contacted DermaPen Australia in regard to the price of the Personal model and this is their reply:
Quote: |
As per the message I left for you on your mobile, please find below the pricing of the Dermapen and associated consumer products and a link to a patient brochure. If you would like to catch up to view the device, please contact me either on mobile or email.
Dermapen $1495.00 gst
Box of 30 needles $ 600.00 + gst ( 1 needle per treatment $20)
30 ml HA- $99.00 + gst. ( will last approx 8-9 patients full face)
Here's a link to "COSDPS0003SemiPatientBrochure.pdf" in my Dropbox:
http://db.tt/KQSZ4qVX |
I'm confused as to whether this might be for the professional model and not the personal and it appears as though you have to fork out an extra $600 for the needles - plus I've just noticed that those prices are without GST, so they'll be even more expensive.
Off to check out the Bellaire model. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:54 pm |
Keliu wrote: |
I contacted DermaPen Australia in regard to the price of the Personal model and this is their reply:
Quote: |
As per the message I left for you on your mobile, please find below the pricing of the Dermapen and associated consumer products and a link to a patient brochure. If you would like to catch up to view the device, please contact me either on mobile or email.
Dermapen $1495.00 gst
Box of 30 needles $ 600.00 + gst ( 1 needle per treatment $20)
30 ml HA- $99.00 + gst. ( will last approx 8-9 patients full face)
Here's a link to "COSDPS0003SemiPatientBrochure.pdf" in my Dropbox:
http://db.tt/KQSZ4qVX |
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Did anyone notice the Dermapen schedule of treatments? They are saying every 4 weeks for rejuvenation and every 2 weeks for acne scarring.
FAQ’s
Q how many treatments are recommended for rejuvenation, acne scarring and stretch marks? (general guide)
a Rejuvenation: Acne scarring: Stretch marks:
4-6 treatments
6 treatments <>10 treatments
4 weeks apart 2 weeks apart 3 weeks apart |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:57 am |
I checked out the Bellaire Dermapens and the personal model sells for $500.00. But then I found the same model on Ebay for $164.00 - so I couldn't resist and bought it.
Will report back after I've used it. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:36 am |
Keliu wrote: |
I checked out the Bellaire Dermapens and the personal model sells for $500.00. But then I found the same model on Ebay for $164.00 - so I couldn't resist and bought it.
Will report back after I've used it. |
That's a good deal. Do you know if it comes with any extra needles? Please keep us updated on how you think it works/pain level and results if any vs a dermaroller. Thanks. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:07 pm |
I had my consultation today for Dermapen treatment. It went very quickly...basically, the derm just looked over my skin, explained a few things and introduced me to the aesthetician who will perform it.
The needle length depends on area of face to be needled. I explained that 1mm seems to be minimum length to achieve collagen induction and neither disagreed with me except to mention that perhaps 1mm is not necessary for skin under the eyes..
I am going to undergo the treatment next week. I asked which topicals they use and they recommend Lifeline stem cell products.
I will use Environ.
Thanks, BFG |
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Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:54 pm |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
I had my consultation today for Dermapen treatment. It went very quickly...basically, the derm just looked over my skin, explained a few things and introduced me to the aesthetician who will perform it.
The needle length depends on area of face to be needled. I explained that 1mm seems to be minimum length to achieve collagen induction and neither disagreed with me except to mention that perhaps 1mm is not necessary for skin under the eyes..
I am going to undergo the treatment next week. I asked which topicals they use and they recommend Lifeline stem cell products.
I will use Environ.
Thanks, BFG |
Are you also going to use the Lifeline, or just the Environ? My sister had a Fraxel treatment today, and they also recommended a human growth factor or stem cell product after the treatment. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:11 am |
Keliu is that the exact same model as the My-M or is it a Chinese one? |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:16 am |
CookieD wrote: |
bethany wrote: |
Cookie, I can't remember where I read it, but I did recently read a recommendation to dermaroll 2 weeks after a Fraxel treatment. I think it was to avoid some of the heat related fibrosis or something? |
Hi Bethany, if you come across the article where you saw that information please post the link. I would love to be able to do a roll after only 2 weeks if I was sure I wasn't doing more harm then good. Thanks. |
Cookie it's in the Concise Guide to Dermal Needling. I definately read it in there somewhere. |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:05 am |
Mishey wrote: |
Keliu is that the exact same model as the My-M or is it a Chinese one? |
Yes, it is the My-M brand and appears to be identical to the one sold by Bellaire - and yes it's made in China. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:02 am |
I will probably just use Environ.
I read through the Lifeline thread and there doesn't seem to be any substantiating evidence or consensus that it's worth the high price.
Do you suppose that these "stem cell" serums are being pushed now because it's the hot new thing, or because they are somehow better than what we have been using?
Also, I did note that the doctor put the emphasis on the word "adult" stem cells...
Would love more input on this...
BFG |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:25 am |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
I will probably just use Environ.
I read through the Lifeline thread and there doesn't seem to be any substantiating evidence or consensus that it's worth the high price.
Do you suppose that these "stem cell" serums are being pushed now because it's the hot new thing, or because they are somehow better than what we have been using?
Also, I did note that the doctor put the emphasis on the word "adult" stem cells...
Would love more input on this...
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I can't help thinking that if stem cell serums can medically and biologically de-age the skin - the entire medical world and skincare industry would have gone gaga over them. That hasn't happened. And real evidence seems to be very thin on the ground. Also, the several thread on these serums on this forum are relatively quiet - with many consumers having moved on to something else.
As for the "adult" stem cells - I think this is just to differentiate between the more controversial fetal stem cells. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:29 am |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
I will probably just use Environ.
I read through the Lifeline thread and there doesn't seem to be any substantiating evidence or consensus that it's worth the high price.
Do you suppose that these "stem cell" serums are being pushed now because it's the hot new thing, or because they are somehow better than what we have been using?
Also, I did note that the doctor put the emphasis on the word "adult" stem cells...
Would love more input on this...
BFG |
This is just my theory, but I think skin care practitioners are pushing the stem cell products because they really do reduce the healing time (that's certainly been my experience). If you can minimize the "red face downtime" more people may be willing to have the procedures and maybe even more frequently (end result - more revenue)
I've got a second dermapen treatment scheduled in two weeks - this time with an esthetician not a doc like the first time. There is a big difference in cost and I want to see if there is a difference in the treatment itself. I should also note that these treatments are being perform in totally different locations so that might account for the cost difference. |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:35 pm |
Mishey wrote: |
CookieD wrote: |
bethany wrote: |
Cookie, I can't remember where I read it, but I did recently read a recommendation to dermaroll 2 weeks after a Fraxel treatment. I think it was to avoid some of the heat related fibrosis or something? |
Hi Bethany, if you come across the article where you saw that information please post the link. I would love to be able to do a roll after only 2 weeks if I was sure I wasn't doing more harm then good. Thanks. |
Cookie it's in the Concise Guide to Dermal Needling. I definately read it in there somewhere. |
Thanks Mishey. Has any one heard of DermaFrac? It is like the Dermapen but it uses a vacuum for the skin and infuses the products into the skin as you are getting the dermaroll. It is supposed to be less painful because of the tension the vacuum pulls on the skin. Of course it also mentions that there is no bleeding. So who knows if it is doing what it's suppose to.
http://genesisbiosystems.com/products/dermafrac/
1. A precision-controlled hand piece with an insertable cartridge containing a high-grade infusion solution rolls across the skin under vacuum.
DermaFrac™ creates micro-channels to the DE junction while simultaneously infusing topicals to this all-important tissue layer.
Vacuum-assisted occlusion places the skin under tension for a pain-free treatment. More importantly, it assists the needle tips to penetrate uniformly to maximize the delivery of the topical infusion solutions into the papillary dermis.
2. The vacuum pulls the skin into contact with hundreds of micro-needles that painlessly penetrate through the epidermis and into the upper dermis (papillary layer).
3. The micro-channels create pathways for introducing the infusion solution into the area of the skin that is most beneficial to the natural rejuvenating process.
4. The depth of the needles has been carefully selected so that the channels are created just below the dermal-epidermal (DE) junction and just above capillaries and nerve endings. This ensures no bleeding or pain. |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:03 pm |
Mishey wrote: |
CookieD wrote: |
bethany wrote: |
Cookie, I can't remember where I read it, but I did recently read a recommendation to dermaroll 2 weeks after a Fraxel treatment. I think it was to avoid some of the heat related fibrosis or something? |
Hi Bethany, if you come across the article where you saw that information please post the link. I would love to be able to do a roll after only 2 weeks if I was sure I wasn't doing more harm then good. Thanks. |
Cookie it's in the Concise Guide to Dermal Needling. I definately read it in there somewhere. |
Yep...I just saw it there last night. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:07 pm |
CookieD wrote: |
Has any one heard of DermaFrac? It is like the Dermapen but it uses a vacuum for the skin and infuses the products into the skin as you are getting the dermaroll. It is supposed to be less painful because of the tension the vacuum pulls on the skin. Of course it also mentions that there is no bleeding. So who knows if it is doing what it's suppose to.
http://genesisbiosystems.com/products/dermafrac/
1. A precision-controlled hand piece with an insertable cartridge containing a high-grade infusion solution rolls across the skin under vacuum.
DermaFrac™ creates micro-channels to the DE junction while simultaneously infusing topicals to this all-important tissue layer.
Vacuum-assisted occlusion places the skin under tension for a pain-free treatment. More importantly, it assists the needle tips to penetrate uniformly to maximize the delivery of the topical infusion solutions into the papillary dermis.
2. The vacuum pulls the skin into contact with hundreds of micro-needles that painlessly penetrate through the epidermis and into the upper dermis (papillary layer).
3. The micro-channels create pathways for introducing the infusion solution into the area of the skin that is most beneficial to the natural rejuvenating process.
4. The depth of the needles has been carefully selected so that the channels are created just below the dermal-epidermal (DE) junction and just above capillaries and nerve endings. This ensures no bleeding or pain. |
Cookie, that sounds more like penetration rolling or mesotherapy as opposed to medical rolling. A very interesting find! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:10 am |
Wow, it seems like suddenly the world of skincare is booming with all sorts of new products and devices. I didn't think I was sleeping while all this happened, lol, maybe I was.
so..do I understand correctly that you think that stem cells more quickly address inflammation?
To me that seems counter-intuitive for use with needling, fractional lasering, etc. because it's the initial inflammation that triggers the wound healing we are seeking?
My first Dermapen treatment is this coming Friday. I am anxious to report back on that.
BFG |
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Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:13 am |
The DermaFrac certainly looks interesting, but it looks like a penetration device only, not a device intended for collagen induction...do we agree or am I missing something?
Thanks! BFG |
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Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:57 am |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
The DermaFrac certainly looks interesting, but it looks like a penetration device only, not a device intended for collagen induction...do we agree or am I missing something?
Thanks! BFG |
I do somewhat agree that it is more for product penetration but when you look at the ultrasound scan analysis results below you do see an increased in collagen of 14.79%. Of course if you look at the pictures in the PDF they are not very impressive and only the top pictures are using only Dermafrac. The other also use microdermabrasion and LED with Dermafrac. This leads me back to a discussion we had on EDS awhile ago about when you see a product/tool that claims to decrease wrinkle, increase collagen etc. by X amount. What does that X amount actually look like in pictures and on your face in real life. Do you really notice that much difference?
Ultrasound Scan Analysis Summary
BACKGROUND The benefit of including ultrasound as an assessment tool is that it provides quantitative information about what is happening beneath the skin surface which is not always clinically evident.
CLINICAL ANALYSIS Nine (9) volunteers between the ages of 42-54 were assessed. Scans were performed prior to treatment (Visit 1) and again at 20 weeks (Visit 2). OBJECTIVES (1) To establish the presence of serum deposited into the upper dermis (Figure 2): Patient M.P; and (2) To establish the effect of the DermaFracTM treatment on collagen production (Figure 3):; Patient J.D.
METHODS A series of six (6) DermaFracTM Anti-Aging treatments were performed two weeks apart. Only the DermaFracTM treatments were performed; better results may be achieved when combined with microdermabrasion and LED light therapy, which the DermaFracTM system offers.
RESULTS
Figure 1:
The difference between Visit 1 to Visit 2 was highly significant, showing a 14.79% increase in collagen.
http://genesisbiosystems.com/wp-content/uploads/DFR-BNA-COMB.pdf |
_________________ Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:13 pm |
My take on the DermaFrac is that it can't be compared to the DermaPen simply because it still uses a roller. What I'm interested to see is if using the stamping motion of the DermaPen is easier to tolerate that the roller. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:38 pm |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
Wow, it seems like suddenly the world of skincare is booming with all sorts of new products and devices. I didn't think I was sleeping while all this happened, lol, maybe I was.
so..do I understand correctly that you think that stem cells more quickly address inflammation?
To me that seems counter-intuitive for use with needling, fractional lasering, etc. because it's the initial inflammation that triggers the wound healing we are seeking?
My first Dermapen treatment is this coming Friday. I am anxious to report back on that.
BFG |
I thought this blog entry was very accurate - at least as it compares to my first treatment. I also thought the pictures were pretty realistic.
Can't wait to hear about your experience. Best of luck.
http://www.beautybybirdie.com/2011/08/dermapen-treatment-1.html#!/2011/08/dermapen-treatment-1.html |
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Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:13 pm |
Barefootgirl wrote: |
so..do I understand correctly that you think that stem cells more quickly address inflammation?
To me that seems counter-intuitive for use with needling, fractional lasering, etc. because it's the initial inflammation that triggers the wound healing we are seeking?
BFG |
There was a discussion about a product called ReGenica a while back. There is a "paper" out on that site that describes the results of a study that was done comparing the healing time following laser treatment with a growth factor product and a placebo. It's kind of interesting. You may want to take a look. It's under the first clinical study.
http://www.regenica.com/results.htm |
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