Pycnogenol
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Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:35 pm

Does anyone know anything about or have experience with Pycnogenol (pinus pinaster, pinus maritime)?

This came from a 2002 study I found through skintypesolutions(dot)com:

In vitro studies of pycnogenol indicate a range of benefits imparted by this botanical extract. It is significantly more potent than vitamins C and E, and it exhibits the capacity to recycle vitamin C, to regenerate vitamin E, and to facilitate the activity of endogenous antioxidant enzymes (Phytother. Res. 16[6]:567-71, 2002). Protective effects against ultraviolet radiation have also been associated with pycnogenol (Phytother. Res. 16[6]:567-71, 2002).

I can’t find any recent, conclusive studies about its effectiveness, either orally or topically. By searching EDS, I found it listed as an ingredient in ReLuma booster serum and Stemulation, but not much else.

free skin care · Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:07 pm

I do! It is a very strong anti-inflammatory, and I originally read about it in one of Dr. Perricone's books.

I can't speak to the antioxident info, but it can dramatically reduce some residual inflammation at the tip of my nose after a 2nd nose job if I take it regularly. I actually planned to start taking it again, so thanks for the reminder.

Here is the brand I take:
http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-100-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/4128

Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:30 pm

Great; thanks for the link! Have you ever tried it topically?

free skin care · Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:53 pm

I am allergic to very few things and Pycnogenol is one of em.. i took it orally several years ago and within few weeks I developed persistent cough at night time, every night, it was horrible.. somehow I put 2 n 2 together and stopped Pycnogenol and the cough went away, after few months I tried it again and same thing... I get the exact same thing with jasmine essential oil.. I wonder if something is common between these two which causes this allergic reaction.. Patchouli essential oil gives me a terrible migraine Sad

i love the smell but cant use it..

free skin care · Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:19 pm

jwaduveev wrote:

Great; thanks for the link! Have you ever tried it topically?

No I haven't.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:49 am

I've ordered my capsules, so I'm looking forward to giving it a try. I hope I won't have a reaction similar to Daler's!

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:32 pm

daler wrote:

I am allergic to very few things and Pycnogenol is one of em.. i took it orally several years ago and within few weeks I developed persistent cough at night time, every night, it was horrible.. somehow I put 2 n 2 together and stopped Pycnogenol and the cough went away, after few months I tried it again and same thing... I get the exact same thing with jasmine essential oil.. I wonder if something is common between these two which causes this allergic reaction.. Patchouli essential oil gives me a terrible migraine Sad

i love the smell but cant use it..

Wow, I've never heard of an allergy to pycnogenol. That's a first.

But, hey, I guess anything's possible.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:45 pm

I LOVE Pycnogenol. I take 200mg of it daily; 100 in the morning and 100 at night. This is the brand I take:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-pycnogenol-100-mg-30-caps

It's not JUST an antioxidant or an anti-inflammatory, it increases hyaluronic acid in the skin itself. Here is what the National Institutes of Health say about it:

Pycnogenol significantly improved hydration and elasticity of skin.

CONCLUSIONS:

This study provides skin-physiological and for the first time molecular evidence that Pycnogenol supplementation benefits human skin by increasing skin hydration and skin elasticity. These effects are most likely due to an increased synthesis of extracellular matrix molecules such as hyaluronic acid and possibly collagen. Pycnogenol supplementation may thus be useful to counteract the clinical signs of skin aging.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270036

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:24 am

My chief concern with pycnogenol is:

Quote:

Medications that decrease the immune system (Immunosuppressants)

Pycnogenol seems to increase the immune system. By increasing the immune system, pycnogenol might decrease the effectiveness of medications that decrease the immune system.

from: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/1019.html

My mother has an autoimmune condition, and so I'm somewhat worried about this. Btw, the link above has some other insightful information on pycnogenol.

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:48 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

I LOVE Pycnogenol. I take 200mg of it daily; 100 in the morning and 100 at night. This is the brand I take:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-pycnogenol-100-mg-30-caps

It's not JUST an antioxidant or an anti-inflammatory, it increases hyaluronic acid in the skin itself. Here is what the National Institutes of Health say about it:

Pycnogenol significantly improved hydration and elasticity of skin.

CONCLUSIONS:

This study provides skin-physiological and for the first time molecular evidence that Pycnogenol supplementation benefits human skin by increasing skin hydration and skin elasticity. These effects are most likely due to an increased synthesis of extracellular matrix molecules such as hyaluronic acid and possibly collagen. Pycnogenol supplementation may thus be useful to counteract the clinical signs of skin aging.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270036

I remember reading that recently also. I was like hmm

I guess maybe I should be taking this? LOL

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:18 pm

bellabambiiina wrote:

AngelaE8654 wrote:

I LOVE Pycnogenol. I take 200mg of it daily; 100 in the morning and 100 at night. This is the brand I take:

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-pycnogenol-100-mg-30-caps

It's not JUST an antioxidant or an anti-inflammatory, it increases hyaluronic acid in the skin itself. Here is what the National Institutes of Health say about it:

Pycnogenol significantly improved hydration and elasticity of skin.

CONCLUSIONS:

This study provides skin-physiological and for the first time molecular evidence that Pycnogenol supplementation benefits human skin by increasing skin hydration and skin elasticity. These effects are most likely due to an increased synthesis of extracellular matrix molecules such as hyaluronic acid and possibly collagen. Pycnogenol supplementation may thus be useful to counteract the clinical signs of skin aging.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270036

I remember reading that recently also. I was like hmm

I guess maybe I should be taking this? LOL

It's not very often that we get the FDA or the National Institutes of Health or any of those type of agencies to agree that a nutritional supplement actually does do good things for our skin or whatever. This is very rare and in this case, the NIH agrees that this supplement really and truly does improve hydration and elasticity of skin. Except for situations where a person may be allergic to it or have some other health reason not to take it, I would recommend it to anyone who wants to improve their skin or to maintain great skin if that's what they're blessed with. Smile

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:47 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

Pycnogenol significantly improved hydration and elasticity of skin.

CONCLUSIONS:

This study provides skin-physiological and for the first time molecular evidence that Pycnogenol supplementation benefits human skin by increasing skin hydration and skin elasticity. These effects are most likely due to an increased synthesis of extracellular matrix molecules such as hyaluronic acid and possibly collagen. Pycnogenol supplementation may thus be useful to counteract the clinical signs of skin aging.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270036

Although no conflict of interest was declared for this lone study, I note that the researchers are listed as: Marini A. · Grether-Beck S. · Jaenicke T. · Weber M. · Burki C. · Formann P. · Brenden H. · Schönlau F. · Krutmann J.

Burki and Schönlau are employed by Horphag Research, Cointrin/Geneva, Switzerland, which is described as:

the exclusive worldwide supplier of Pycnogenol® French maritime pine bark extract. Based in Geneva, Switzerland, Horphag has the exclusive rights to market and sell Pycnogenol® and works with hundreds of companies to help them develop innovative and effective Pycnogenol® product formulas.

http://www.linkedin.com/company/horphag-research

This is not independent research, so the results should be cautiously interpreted. The study needs to be independently replicated before the findings are accepted.

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:59 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

It's not very often that we get the FDA or the National Institutes of Health or any of those type of agencies to agree that a nutritional supplement actually does do good things for our skin or whatever. This is very rare and in this case, the NIH agrees that this supplement really and truly does improve hydration and elasticity of skin. Except for situations where a person may be allergic to it or have some other health reason not to take it, I would recommend it to anyone who wants to improve their skin or to maintain great skin if that's what they're blessed with. Smile

I didn't see any federal agency agree that it does anything for skin or whatever. I did find the Cochrane Review which states:

MAIN RESULTS:
This review includes 15 trials with a total of 791 participants that have evaluated Pycnogenol(®) for the treatment of seven different chronic disorders. These included asthma (two studies; N = 86), attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (one study; N = 61), chronic venous insufficiency (two studies; N = 60), diabetes mellitus (four studies; N = 201), erectile dysfunction (one study; N = 21), hypertension (two studies; N = 69) and osteoarthritis (three studies; N = 293). Two of the studies were conducted exclusively in children; the others involved adults.Due to small sample size, limited numbers of trials per condition, variation in outcomes evaluated and outcome measures used, as well as the risk of bias in the included studies, no definitive conclusions regarding the efficacy or safety of Pycnogenol(®) are possible.

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:
Current evidence is insufficient to support Pycnogenol(®) use for the treatment of any chronic disorder. Well-designed, adequately powered trials are needed to establish the value of this treatment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22336841

The Medline Plus article doesn't mention skin conditions specifically, but does state Insufficient evidence to rate effectiveness for Aging.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/1019.html

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:05 pm

Again, I would say that unless you are allergic to it or have some other health complication that prevents you from using it, go ahead and try it for yourself. See if it works. It won't be an overnight thing, of course, but you can judge whether you think it's helping you or not after probably about 6 months or so. Where will you be in 6 months skin-wise if you don't use it?? Wink

It seems kind of strange to me that on a site that's chock full of advice about products and gadgets (some of them exorbitantly expensive) to help with anti aging, the one product that appears to actually work gets a lukewarm response, at best. That's fine if you don't want to take it. I certainly don't have a problem with that but I think it's doing an disservice to those who read but don't post to treat a perfectly safe nutritional supplement that appears to actually work for skin elasticity and hydration as some sort of "pariah" of skin care.

P.S. Dr. Oz and Good Housekeeping also say it works. Laughing

These people say you should see a difference in about 12 weeks, which is three months.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/pycnogenol-supplement-younger-looking-skin

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:16 am

I just started taking it a few weeks ago and I think I can already tell a difference. Skin seems more hydrated and even toned. I can't be sure that it is the Pycnogenol since I had also done a deep (1.5) derma roll about the same time. Plus my skin seems to go through phases that I am sure are related to my hormone levels at the time. I can look pretty presentable one day and horrific the next. I take a lot of supplements, but I think it is a good idea to rotate your antioxidants to ensure that you are well covered (unless you can afford to take them all at one time)I dropped my Resveratrol for Pycnogenol this time.

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:17 am

flipper wrote:

I just started taking it a few weeks ago and I think I can already tell a difference. Skin seems more hydrated and even toned. I can't be sure that it is the Pycnogenol since I had also done a deep (1.5) derma roll about the same time. Plus my skin seems to go through phases that I am sure are related to my hormone levels at the time. I can look pretty presentable one day and horrific the next. I take a lot of supplements, but I think it is a good idea to rotate your antioxidants to ensure that you are well covered (unless you can afford to take them all at one time)I dropped my Resveratrol for Pycnogenol this time.

It sounds like a good supplement and compared to other many other alternatives, not a very risky thing to try. I think allergies must be unusual, good to have the warning though.

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:26 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

Again, I would say that unless you are allergic to it or have some other health complication that prevents you from using it, go ahead and try it for yourself. See if it works. It won't be an overnight thing, of course, but you can judge whether you think it's helping you or not after probably about 6 months or so. Where will you be in 6 months skin-wise if you don't use it?? Wink

It seems kind of strange to me that on a site that's chock full of advice about products and gadgets (some of them exorbitantly expensive) to help with anti aging, the one product that appears to actually work gets a lukewarm response, at best. That's fine if you don't want to take it. I certainly don't have a problem with that but I think it's doing an disservice to those who read but don't post to treat a perfectly safe nutritional supplement that appears to actually work for skin elasticity and hydration as some sort of "pariah" of skin care.

Agreed; people are free to do whatever they want with their money and health. Besides a possible allergy, there are potentially other negative side effects including dizziness, gut problems, headache, and mouth ulcers; it should also be avoided during pregnancy/nursing and by anyone with auto-immune issues.

I stated people should be cautious when interpreting the results of the study. There are many reasons for this statement, including:

- there were only 20 women included in the study (small studies are not reliable and results can not be generalized to the rest of the population);

- the subjects were between the ages of 55-68, non-smokers, menopausal, had "normal" eating habits and no history of any skin disease (these study subjects may be different from you, so the results may not be applicable to you);

- women with dry skin benefited the most and had significant increased hydration (21%) vs 8% for all subjects. Furthermore, hydration increased after 6 weeks but not after 12 weeks of usage when it reverted to baseline levels (you may not have dry skin, so the results may not be applicable);

- skin biopsy (taken from the buttocks) did not show a significant increase in new collagen synthesis (this was not a facial skin study, which is what most people have assumed);

- Pycnogenol supplementation reduced skin wrinkles by 3% and increased skin smoothness by 6% (neither result would be clinically significant; it would be undetectable to the naked eye);

- the study was sponsored by the company that is the sole supplier of the ingredient under study (only positive results would be published; negative results would not be made available to the public; there is a strong potential for biased results).

In my opinion, the results of this study are not impressive enough to say it "works" let alone recommend it to anyone.

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/335261

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:41 pm

Derma-E has a pycnogenol toner, which is purported to be a good product.

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:38 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

Agreed; people are free to do whatever they want with their money and health. Besides a possible allergy, there are potentially other negative side effects including dizziness, gut problems, headache, and mouth ulcers; it should also be avoided during pregnancy/nursing and by anyone with auto-immune issues.

I stated people should be cautious when interpreting the results of the study. There are many reasons for this statement, including:

- there were only 20 women included in the study (small studies are not reliable and results can not be generalized to the rest of the population);

- the subjects were between the ages of 55-68, non-smokers, menopausal, had "normal" eating habits and no history of any skin disease (these study subjects may be different from you, so the results may not be applicable to you);

- women with dry skin benefited the most and had significant increased hydration (21%) vs 8% for all subjects. Furthermore, hydration increased after 6 weeks but not after 12 weeks of usage when it reverted to baseline levels (you may not have dry skin, so the results may not be applicable);

- skin biopsy (taken from the buttocks) did not show a significant increase in new collagen synthesis (this was not a facial skin study, which is what most people have assumed);

- Pycnogenol supplementation reduced skin wrinkles by 3% and increased skin smoothness by 6% (neither result would be clinically significant; it would be undetectable to the naked eye);

- the study was sponsored by the company that is the sole supplier of the ingredient under study (only positive results would be published; negative results would not be made available to the public; there is a strong potential for biased results).

In my opinion, the results of this study are not impressive enough to say it "works" let alone recommend it to anyone.

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/335261

So you're saying that Dr. Oz is completely misguided for recommending it to his audience of millions? You're saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about? There are actually no known side effects. Zero. Nada. The people who have claimed to have an allergy is one person so far from everything I've read or seen or studied about it. One. And one other person was concerned about auto-immune issues but had never actually tried it. One person.

You point out studies that aren't "large enough" to determine it's effectiveness and then you point to things that exactly two people have said. One of those two people has never tried pycnogenol but said she's concerned about it because her mother has auto immune issues.

My Claritan D that I get via prescription (due to all the druggies that have ruined normal people being able to get it without harrassment at the pharmacy) says it "may cause dizziness" too. I've been taking that stuff since I was a teenager and I've never once been dizzy because of it. Those "warning" are usually much broader than what is actually experienced by most people and are almost always put there as a "just in case".

Here is the "side effect" information from WebMD:

Quote:

Pycnogenol is POSSIBLY SAFE when taken in doses of 50 mg to 450 mg daily for up to 6 months. Pycnogenol can cause dizziness, gut problems, headache, and mouth ulcers.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Preliminary research suggests pycnogenol might be safe in late pregnancy. But until more is known, pycnogenol should be avoided by women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.

“Auto-immune diseases” such as multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus, SLE), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), or other conditions: Pycnogenol might cause the immune system to become more active, and this could increase the symptoms of auto-immune diseases. If you have one of these conditions, it’s best to avoid using pycnogenol.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientreview-1019-PYCNOGENOL.aspx?drugid=1019&drugname=PYCNOGENOL

Notice it says it "might cause" or "can cause" but there is nothing solid or definitive that it DOES cause any particular side effect.

There are 48 reviews there for Pycnogenol. Most of those people give it 4+ stars in all categories. Out of 48 people.

I'm puzzled that you seem to be so "against" using this safe supplement. Confused

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:47 pm

VeronicaM wrote:

Derma-E has a pycnogenol toner, which is purported to be a good product.

I've used that product and it's pretty good. Swanson Health Products has a Pycnogenol Cream too, which I've also used. Here is one of the reviews:

Quote:

I have been usung this product for at least 4 years..
and noticed it greatly reduces wrinkles.... it is the ONLY facial product I use...... I am 72 Years old
nobody ever guest may age... I am pleased to say.
Although the price went UP and quantity DECREASED since I have been using it......
The sale price is great and I have bought reserve.
I can only recommend it.....

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-pycnogenol-wrinkle-cream-97-natural-2-fl-oz-59-ml-cream

Some of the other reviewers were talking about the brownish color of it but you should know this: Pycnogenol IS brown and if the product you are using has enough pycnogenol in it to do any good, it WILL be brown. I am a fair-skinned redhead and I never found that it left a "bronze" color on me. Very Happy

Quote:

As is the case with any active anti-aging ingredient, the concentration of Pycnogenol in skin care products must be sufficient enough to be effective. Token amounts that are there simply so manufacturers can claim its presence in the product just won’t do it. Very few products contain Pycnogenol because it is expensive. Although no specific levels for Pycnogenol in topical applications have been determined, the most common amount used in skin serums and creams is typically 0.1 to 0.2%. The easiest way to determine if a product contains enough of it is to look at its color. This antioxidant is brown in color. Any product that lists it as an ingredient and is not brown has an insignificant concentration of it. Its name should also be listed near the top of the ingredients printed on the package.

http://anti-agingskincare.weebly.com/pycnogenol.html

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:32 pm

bethany wrote:

Here is the brand I take:
http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-100-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/4128

There are 404 reviews for Pycnogenol in Bethany's link and the total is 4 1/2 stars. Out of more than 400 reviews!! That's 400 MORE people who say the supplement is a good one. Smile

free skin care · Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:14 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

So you're saying that Dr. Oz is completely misguided for recommending it to his audience of millions? You're saying that he doesn't know what he's talking about? There are actually no known side effects. Zero. Nada. The people who have claimed to have an allergy is one person so far from everything I've read or seen or studied about it. One. And one other person was concerned about auto-immune issues but had never actually tried it. One person.

You point out studies that aren't "large enough" to determine it's effectiveness and then you point to things that exactly two people have said. One of those two people has never tried pycnogenol but said she's concerned about it because her mother has auto immune issues.

My Claritan D that I get via prescription (due to all the druggies that have ruined normal people being able to get it without harrassment at the pharmacy) says it "may cause dizziness" too. I've been taking that stuff since I was a teenager and I've never once been dizzy because of it. Those "warning" are usually much broader than what is actually experienced by most people and are almost always put there as a "just in case".

Here is the "side effect" information from WebMD:

Quote:

Pycnogenol is POSSIBLY SAFE when taken in doses of 50 mg to 450 mg daily for up to 6 months. Pycnogenol can cause dizziness, gut problems, headache, and mouth ulcers.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Preliminary research suggests pycnogenol might be safe in late pregnancy. But until more is known, pycnogenol should be avoided by women who are pregnant or breast-feeding.

“Auto-immune diseases” such as multiple sclerosis (MS), lupus (systemic lupus erythematosus, SLE), rheumatoid arthritis (RA), or other conditions: Pycnogenol might cause the immune system to become more active, and this could increase the symptoms of auto-immune diseases. If you have one of these conditions, it’s best to avoid using pycnogenol.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientreview-1019-PYCNOGENOL.aspx?drugid=1019&drugname=PYCNOGENOL

Notice it says it "might cause" or "can cause" but there is nothing solid or definitive that it DOES cause any particular side effect.

There are 48 reviews there for Pycnogenol. Most of those people give it 4+ stars in all categories. Out of 48 people.

I'm puzzled that you seem to be so "against" using this safe supplement. Confused

I don't care what Dr. Oz or reviewers say about Pycnogenol; I was addressing the inadequacies with the study which related to taking the supplement for skin improvement. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I am well aware what the side effects are; I listed them. I also know how side effects are derived. They don't originate from someone's imagination; they are real documented events. The write-up on WebMD also says "possibly safe", not absolutely safe. I really don't care what you or anyone else takes to supplement their regular diet. I am just not impressed with Pycnogenol and its effects on skin.

Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:28 pm

Quote:

I started using this product for my skin. It has definitely helped with making my skin more supple and youthful looking. I am 43 and was at Costco today when one of the ladies giving out samples asked me what products I used for my face because my skin looked so nice. I believe it is this product that has made the difference.

iherb[dot]com/product-reviews/Healthy-Origins-Pycnogenol-100-mg-60-Veggie-Caps/4128/?p=1&fr=5

The positive reviews for Pycnogenol pretty much everywhere online outweigh the negatives by about 10 to 1. I get that you don't like it and that is fine. But I want to make sure those who are reading this thread realize that almost everyone has a positive experience with Pycnogenol. The negatives (when there are any) are few and far between.

Here's another bunch of reviews for Pycnogenol on yet another site. Out of 71 reviews, 56 of them are 5 stars. Only 8 out of the 71 reviews are 3 or fewer stars.

swansonvitamins[dot]com/swanson-ultra-pycnogenol-100-mg-30-caps#reviews

free skin care · Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:54 am

In general, I think it might be hard to find good studies on supplements because there isn't funding readily available.

I think it's good to point out flaws of studies and definitely NOT to rely on flawed studies.

But I also look at the flip side. If side effects and such were a reason not to take anything, I dont think any pharmaceuticals would be on the market, including the arsenal of products and procedures that dermatologists freely prescribe.

Everything is a risk, and people need to be cautious trying things for sure and be informed.

free skin care · Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:16 pm

I started taking Pycnogenol for the antioxidant effect, not for skin improvement. Honestly, I didn't even know that it had the potential to have a positive effect on the skin until I read it in this thread. But, after I read the posts I realized that I had seen some improvement. Like I said, it could also be the dermaroller. FYI, I have been taking Source Naturals 100mg/day.

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