Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in



Sanford Bennett
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare
Reply to topic
Author Message
tryhardgirl
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:51 am      Reply with quote
Can anyone tell me how to do the Sanford Bennett facial massage? I do not understand what he meant by MASSAGE and RUB and FRICTION. Do you just hold the skin in place and then rub deeply or do I slide up like Tanaka Massage?
moongoddess
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 272
Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:00 pm      Reply with quote
it's the former
SnowFairy
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
Posts: 187
Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:47 pm      Reply with quote
I think you are supposed to contract the muscle while holding it down on both sides of the wrinkle with one hand and then rub up and down along the wrinkle with the other hand.
ATester
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 576
Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:32 pm      Reply with quote
Welcome Tryhardgirl!

I understand it as Moongoddess and as what SnowFairy said in the sense of contracting the muscle... You contract the muscle, place hands or butt of palms and press in and "rub"... in this massage you do not slide which is another type of massage, lymphatic kind.
I think this link will help to understand it better, as it is visual and as far as I understand similar to the Bennett's description.

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/face-firmer-massage-technique
tryhardgirl
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:07 am      Reply with quote
Can you tell me how friction can be created if no movement of sliding action is performed? By simply pressing against skin and massage on the spot is not going to create friction, in my opinion. Please advise.

How can you hold down wrinkles with one hand ( V shape) and then rub with the other hand? Unless I only rub with my fingers and not my palm . But does this action involve sliding along or perpendicular to the wrinkle OR just press down the wrinkle and then do circular motion? Same confusion.
ATester
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 576
Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:21 pm      Reply with quote
tryhardgirl wrote:
Can you tell me how friction can be created if no movement of sliding action is performed? By simply pressing against skin and massage on the spot is not going to create friction, in my opinion. Please advise.

How can you hold down wrinkles with one hand ( V shape) and then rub with the other hand? Unless I only rub with my fingers and not my palm . But does this action involve sliding along or perpendicular to the wrinkle OR just press down the wrinkle and then do circular motion? Same confusion.


Reading your question it makes me wonder if you have actually tried it out,... Pressing in with the palm of hand against contracted muscles and moving vigorously circular, or up and down, certainly makes a friction effect in between the skin and muscle layer. Sometimes you even directly friction the skin if pressure is not enough. Just vigorously massaging "moving" the "skin layer" over the contracted muscles should feel "hot"... like friction... Just my experience.
moongoddess
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 272
Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:53 pm      Reply with quote
tryhardergirl -
what Atester is saying is if you actually do the technique there is in innate understanding of what is "right" -
don't over think it 'cause it's really not that complicated, just make sure the skin is anchored befor you rub - make it your own - good luck -

just curious - do you actually own bennett's book?
tryhardgirl
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:06 am      Reply with quote
Thanks for clarifying . I was confused by Carolyn's website, she mentioned that :
Remember, one of the secrets of the CFF system is that you are sliding over the skin while the muscle is in contraction. You are NOT stretching the skin, you are sliding OVER the skin, toning the muscles in the process. How does this work, you may ask? ...........
But in her video , she massages any one spot WITHOUT lifting her hand. She did NOT slide.

Also, Master Tiong of Wuchu also moves his hands like brushing with sliding action to create friction. That is why I was not sure which way Sanford Bennett advocates to create friction. Now I know , in a nutshell, it is massaging in one spot then lift hand to go to next spot.


Yes, I ordered the book from Amazon.
ATester
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 576
Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:29 pm      Reply with quote
tryhardgirl wrote:
Thanks for clarifying . I was confused by Carolyn's website, she mentioned that :
Remember, one of the secrets of the CFF system is that you are sliding over the skin while the muscle is in contraction. You are NOT stretching the skin, you are sliding OVER the skin, toning the muscles in the process. How does this work, you may ask? ...........
But in her video , she massages any one spot WITHOUT lifting her hand. She did NOT slide.

Also, Master Tiong of Wuchu also moves his hands like brushing with sliding action to create friction.


Didn't realise it was Carolyn's wording that had created your doubts. If you just follow her video it is quite clear she does not "slide" as she rubs, in any case she just "slides" without stretching as she changes her palm/butt of hand position on the face for the next step of "rubbing", "massaging"..
There really are quite a few different techniques in massaging, some for building muscle like the Sanford Bennett, some for slimming lymphatic elevating muscle like Tanaka, some like a mixture of both as in Face Detox -Master Tiong... etc...

My recommendation is to try them out, see how it feels for you and you might end up loving various different techniques for different purposes!!
And if you learn any other massage technique that you find useful and enjoy, don't hesitate to share! Very Happy
tryhardgirl
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:28 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you so much again . I am new to Essential Day Spa forum but it seems extremely inconvenient to search for anything as I need to type the CAPCHA each time. Do you all have to do that?

Also, how do I see my own post to read reply without going through Search> CAPCHA ?

If it is made more easy, I will be more happy to share even more. Currently, to search for every word I need to go through CAPCHA. I believe I must be doing wrong.
Nonie aka AD
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jul 2011
Posts: 868
Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:05 am      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:
tryhardgirl wrote:
Thanks for clarifying . I was confused by Carolyn's website, she mentioned that :
Remember, one of the secrets of the CFF system is that you are sliding over the skin while the muscle is in contraction. You are NOT stretching the skin, you are sliding OVER the skin, toning the muscles in the process. How does this work, you may ask? ...........
But in her video , she massages any one spot WITHOUT lifting her hand. She did NOT slide.

Also, Master Tiong of Wuchu also moves his hands like brushing with sliding action to create friction.


Didn't realise it was Carolyn's wording that had created your doubts. If you just follow her video it is quite clear she does not "slide" as she rubs, in any case she just "slides" without stretching as she changes her palm/butt of hand position on the face for the next step of "rubbing", "massaging"..
There really are quite a few different techniques in massaging, some for building muscle like the Sanford Bennett, some for slimming lymphatic elevating muscle like Tanaka, some like a mixture of both as in Face Detox -Master Tiong... etc...

My recommendation is to try them out, see how it feels for you and you might end up loving various different techniques for different purposes!!
And if you learn any other massage technique that you find useful and enjoy, don't hesitate to share! Very Happy


tryhardgirl and ATester That sliding over contracted muscles that Carolyn Cleaves refers to has to do with other exercises in her program not the Face Firmer. There are a total of 28 basic exercises and that's not counting the bonus exercises like Face Firmer or the Brush. The line tryhardgirl quoted I believe is from the article at the following link which is not referring to any particular exercise but the general theme of the program:
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/why-do-we-have-to-contract-the-muscles-before-we-slide-across-the-skin-and-what-about-the-forehead

The contracting before sliding technique is derived from Dr Frederick Rossiter's program. More about that can be found at this other link--Many programs ask you to grip the muscle and then contract against that resistance. CFF differs in that it doesn't do that as explained here: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/how-is-sliding-on-the-skin-superior-to-gripping-and-holding

You will confuse yourself if you take information from one program and try to apply it to another. Every program has its own rules because the authors believe that's what you need to do to achieve results. You will also confuse yourself if you only see bits of a complete program and assume that what you read in one part applies to the little bit you saw.

In Carolyn's blog where she talks about Face Firmer, she doesn't say she's sliding when doing this exercise. She does indeed say she used the idea of contracting muscles first as she learned it from both Bennett and Rossiter and that it was from that basic principle that she came up with this idea, not that she was doing exactly what Bennett did in his program within this exercise. In fact, it seems to me that by saying she combined both ideas from these guys, she is referring to taking the contraction idea from Rossiter but using the massage on the spot idea from Bennett. Here's the article:
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/the-face-firmer-massage-technique-blog

An example of an exercise in CFF where contraction happens first before sliding is in the Crows' Feet exercise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwfr4PxmFqs

I think you risk getting it wrong if you don't follow the instructions within the program you are doing but try to use the idea from another to change the way a certain program wants you to do an exercise. Master Tiong's method is different from both Carolyn's and Sanford's. Each one has it's own version of what works. I mean, if you think about it, what would be the point of having so many programs if they didn't differ from each other in some way? Also as you may have noticed, not everyone does the same program because it's different strokes for different folks. You have to choose one program and follow it as directed if you are to have any hope of getting the results promised. If you do Master Tiong's method you will have to slide as he's doing, not massage on the spot, because he isn't doing Sanford Bennett's workout, nor is he doing the CFF Face Firmer.
havana8
Moderator

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3438
Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:01 am      Reply with quote
tryhardgirl wrote:
Thank you so much again . I am new to Essential Day Spa forum but it seems extremely inconvenient to search for anything as I need to type the CAPCHA each time. Do you all have to do that?

Also, how do I see my own post to read reply without going through Search> CAPCHA ?

If it is made more easy, I will be more happy to share even more. Currently, to search for every word I need to go through CAPCHA. I believe I must be doing wrong.


Hi tryhardgirl, Once you are logged in and reach 10 posts, the captcha will disappear from the search window as well as from profile > find all posts by so-and-so, so please don't get discouraged.

Also you can add any topic to your "watched list" (top right above "Log out") by clicking "Watch this topic for replies" on the bottom right of every thread.

HTHs and welcome to the forum. Smile
zwayny11
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 4
Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:02 am      Reply with quote
I was reading through Sanford Bennett online book and was amazed at what this man achieved. I am surprised that no one is really managed to achieve his results. I know that there was no photoshop manipulation at that time. I would be interested to hear about others experience, feedback or input about his methods. Does it really work for everyone, or was he a special super non aging guy?
AngelaE8654
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 29 Aug 2013
Posts: 312
Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:05 am      Reply with quote
zwayny11 wrote:
I was reading through Sanford Bennett online book and was amazed at what this man achieved. I am surprised that no one is really managed to achieve his results. I know that there was no photoshop manipulation at that time. I would be interested to hear about others experience, feedback or input about his methods. Does it really work for everyone, or was he a special super non aging guy?


I actually think that the Sanford Bennett massage method is a lot more closely related to the "Facial Detox" method shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5p9AzC9LE8&list=UU_8tJbL_Srt4xbQkcPNaTXA

Here is a wonderful "before and after" from the Facial Detox method:

Image

You can see Sanford doing his techniques here. I know he mentions "contracting" his cheek muscles while doing deep tissue cheek massage, but I think that's different from the "friction" he speaks about. He doesn't appear to be contracting much in these photos and he does NOT say that Ninon de L'Enclos contracted her muscles while using the "friction" he spoke about.

Image

Image

Image


Here is what he says in his book:


Quote:

For the face and neck, friction with the palms of the hands is an effective method of removing wrinkles, as they can be rubbed out, and the skin can be polished, as elsewhere stated, just like any other piece of leather.


And what will prove of special interest to ladies is that the friction exercises for the face and neck will surely result in a marked improvement. I have demonstrated upon my own face and neck that by this method wrinkles can be removed even in advanced age, and I am positive that if this friction exercise is commenced when the lines first appear and is persistently practiced, they will be eradicated and will not again appear until extreme old age. This is the method that was practiced by Ninon de L'Enclos, the celebrated French beauty of the seventeenth century, and it is the only successful method for removing wrinkles and retaining the smooth skin characteristic of youth.


Here is Ninon de L'Enclos at the age of 70:

Image

_________________
Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2688
Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:26 am      Reply with quote
There is an awful lot said about Ninon de L'Enclos but I think a lot of it is simply myths and fairytales. From what I know all the evidence of her is artistic interpretation rather than photos (did they have cameras at that point in time?). Very few artists would be brave to paint a lady warts n all then for fear of the actions that the lady may take (or that of her husband etc).

I also remember hearing tales of literature she wrote about what she did, but all my searching I found absolutely nothing.... so again makes me wonder.
Lotusesther
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 699
Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:58 am      Reply with quote
From what I understand, it was her maid who sold leaflets with beauty recipes after Ninon had passed away. Elsewhere on this forum her skin cream recipe was discussed, and it is a clever and effective formula no doubt.
But there is a difference between 'complexion' being perfect and the absence of sag and wrinkles. With that face cream no doubt she had little or no age spots, and a well exfoliated skin (with, in the animal fats of the cream, lots of BARRIER REPAIR components!)but I think there's a reason for her to have stopped working as a courtisane in her forties.

I too am curious to see which kind of exercise or massage she really used, if any.
But it's just like Cleopatra is supposed to have bathed in milk, asses' milk, colostrum or any other ingredient the one telling the story is trying to sell - no way we can verify but the name appeals to our imagination.

Stanford Bennet's achievement is very impressive - but yes, he was a man without all the tricks and treacheries our hormones work upon us.
If maintaining eternal youth was so easy, no one would opt for going under the knife, don't you think?
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2688
Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:17 am      Reply with quote
Oh that makes more sense, but I've never been able to find any information on the leaflets that were published, which in this day and age is crazy. You'd think they'd exist somewhere and somehow.

I did a search for Ninon's cream and can't find anything? Lotusesther do you have a link to that thread?
Lotusesther wrote:
From what I understand, it was her maid who sold leaflets with beauty recipes after Ninon had passed away. Elsewhere on this forum her skin cream recipe was discussed, and it is a clever and effective formula no doubt.
But there is a difference between 'complexion' being perfect and the absence of sag and wrinkles. With that face cream no doubt she had little or no age spots, and a well exfoliated skin (with, in the animal fats of the cream, lots of BARRIER REPAIR components!)but I think there's a reason for her to have stopped working as a courtisane in her forties.

I too am curious to see which kind of exercise or massage she really used, if any.
But it's just like Cleopatra is supposed to have bathed in milk, asses' milk, colostrum or any other ingredient the one telling the story is trying to sell - no way we can verify but the name appeals to our imagination.

Stanford Bennet's achievement is very impressive - but yes, he was a man without all the tricks and treacheries our hormones work upon us.
If maintaining eternal youth was so easy, no one would opt for going under the knife, don't you think?
Lotusesther
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 699
Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:20 am      Reply with quote
Here is the link
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45836
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2688
Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:24 am      Reply with quote
Excellent, thank you
VirginiaWhite
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 65
Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:00 pm      Reply with quote
contrary to everyone on this board, he emphasises going in the sunshine! I have to agree!

http://archive.org/stream/oldageitscausea01benngoog#page/n106/mode/2up
panoslydios
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:23 pm      Reply with quote
VirginiaWhite wrote:
contrary to everyone on this board, he emphasises going in the sunshine! I have to agree!

http://archive.org/stream/oldageitscausea01benngoog#page/n106/mode/2up


Exaclty.

You eat fruits aka you eat sun radiation.
You eat animals-aka you eat second hand sun radiation(cause animals eat plants).
etc.

So you finally realise that you are composed of SUNSHINE AND AIR.

So absorb the sun and breath the air!!!!

_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
ATester
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 576
Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:11 pm      Reply with quote
Lotusesther wrote:
Here is the link
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=45836


Thanks a lot! Interesting the use of the onion for the face cream, I knew about mixing it in shampoo for healthy hair growth due to the sulfuric acid but hadn't focussed on the skin lightening results of it! Just been reading its great for acne prone skin too!

As I was searching more info about this I came over something about a metal golden face mask apparently used by Ninon de L'Enclos. I found it an interesting read, a bit bewildering too. I only have his book about "Exercising in bed", so I found the excerpts of another book in this blog interesting and amusing!
http://aquaeyeshadow.blogspot.com.es/2011/10/golden-mask-ninon-de-lenclos-secret-of.html
AngelaE8654
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 29 Aug 2013
Posts: 312
Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:59 pm      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:


As I was searching more info about this I came over something about a metal golden face mask apparently used by Ninon de L'Enclos. I found it an interesting read, a bit bewildering too. I only have his book about "Exercising in bed", so I found the excerpts of another book in this blog interesting and amusing!
http://aquaeyeshadow.blogspot.com.es/2011/10/golden-mask-ninon-de-lenclos-secret-of.html


Rumor is that Cleopatra also used a gold mask for sleeping. Smile

_________________
Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou
ATester
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 576
Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:58 pm      Reply with quote
AngelaE8654 wrote:
ATester wrote:


As I was searching more info about this I came over something about a metal golden face mask apparently used by Ninon de L'Enclos. I found it an interesting read, a bit bewildering too. I only have his book about "Exercising in bed", so I found the excerpts of another book in this blog interesting and amusing!
http://aquaeyeshadow.blogspot.com.es/2011/10/golden-mask-ninon-de-lenclos-secret-of.html


Rumor is that Cleopatra also used a gold mask for sleeping. Smile


Really? We're obviously missing out on something in our modern age!! Laughing We think we are so Cool, Laughing .
I want to thank your for posting excerpts of Sanfords book on the massage. Does he mention anywhere how often or long to do them? I'm a huge fan of massage techniques as I've always seen results -some even bad when I've got overzealous!
ATester
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 576
Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:37 am      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:
AngelaE8654 wrote:

Rumor is that Cleopatra also used a gold mask for sleeping. Smile


Really? We're obviously missing out on something in our modern age!! Laughing We think we are so Cool, Laughing .
I want to thank your for posting excerpts of Sanfords book on the massage. Does he mention anywhere how often or long to do them? I'm a huge fan of massage techniques as I've always seen results -some even bad when I've got overzealous!


Bump.
Angela, was wondering also if, as you put up pics about his massage technique, if you could provide the link you used for the pictures and info about what Sanford said about the facial massage technique. TIA.
System
Automatic Message
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:34 pm
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic



Peter Thomas Roth Viz-1000 Intensive Hydrating Serum (30 ml / 1 floz) RevitaLash Brow-Perfecting Mini Kit (3 items) Shira Shir-Radiance Corrective Rx Wrinkle & Pore Minimizer (30 ml)