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tryhardgirl
New Member
 
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
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Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:51 am  |
| Can anyone tell me how to do the Sanford Bennett facial massage? I do not understand what he meant by MASSAGE and RUB and FRICTION. Do you just hold the skin in place and then rub deeply or do I slide up like Tanaka Massage? |
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Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:00 pm |
| it's the former |
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Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:47 pm |
| I think you are supposed to contract the muscle while holding it down on both sides of the wrinkle with one hand and then rub up and down along the wrinkle with the other hand. |
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Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:32 pm |
Welcome Tryhardgirl!
I understand it as Moongoddess and as what SnowFairy said in the sense of contracting the muscle... You contract the muscle, place hands or butt of palms and press in and "rub"... in this massage you do not slide which is another type of massage, lymphatic kind.
I think this link will help to understand it better, as it is visual and as far as I understand similar to the Bennett's description.
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/face-firmer-massage-technique |
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tryhardgirl
New Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
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Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:07 am |
Can you tell me how friction can be created if no movement of sliding action is performed? By simply pressing against skin and massage on the spot is not going to create friction, in my opinion. Please advise.
How can you hold down wrinkles with one hand ( V shape) and then rub with the other hand? Unless I only rub with my fingers and not my palm . But does this action involve sliding along or perpendicular to the wrinkle OR just press down the wrinkle and then do circular motion? Same confusion. |
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Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:21 pm |
| tryhardgirl wrote: |
Can you tell me how friction can be created if no movement of sliding action is performed? By simply pressing against skin and massage on the spot is not going to create friction, in my opinion. Please advise.
How can you hold down wrinkles with one hand ( V shape) and then rub with the other hand? Unless I only rub with my fingers and not my palm . But does this action involve sliding along or perpendicular to the wrinkle OR just press down the wrinkle and then do circular motion? Same confusion. |
Reading your question it makes me wonder if you have actually tried it out,... Pressing in with the palm of hand against contracted muscles and moving vigorously circular, or up and down, certainly makes a friction effect in between the skin and muscle layer. Sometimes you even directly friction the skin if pressure is not enough. Just vigorously massaging "moving" the "skin layer" over the contracted muscles should feel "hot"... like friction... Just my experience. |
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Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:53 pm |
tryhardergirl -
what Atester is saying is if you actually do the technique there is in innate understanding of what is "right" -
don't over think it 'cause it's really not that complicated, just make sure the skin is anchored befor you rub - make it your own - good luck -
just curious - do you actually own bennett's book? |
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tryhardgirl
New Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
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Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:06 am |
Thanks for clarifying . I was confused by Carolyn's website, she mentioned that :
Remember, one of the secrets of the CFF system is that you are sliding over the skin while the muscle is in contraction. You are NOT stretching the skin, you are sliding OVER the skin, toning the muscles in the process. How does this work, you may ask? ...........
But in her video , she massages any one spot WITHOUT lifting her hand. She did NOT slide.
Also, Master Tiong of Wuchu also moves his hands like brushing with sliding action to create friction. That is why I was not sure which way Sanford Bennett advocates to create friction. Now I know , in a nutshell, it is massaging in one spot then lift hand to go to next spot.
Yes, I ordered the book from Amazon. |
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Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:29 pm |
| tryhardgirl wrote: |
Thanks for clarifying . I was confused by Carolyn's website, she mentioned that :
Remember, one of the secrets of the CFF system is that you are sliding over the skin while the muscle is in contraction. You are NOT stretching the skin, you are sliding OVER the skin, toning the muscles in the process. How does this work, you may ask? ...........
But in her video , she massages any one spot WITHOUT lifting her hand. She did NOT slide.
Also, Master Tiong of Wuchu also moves his hands like brushing with sliding action to create friction. |
Didn't realise it was Carolyn's wording that had created your doubts. If you just follow her video it is quite clear she does not "slide" as she rubs, in any case she just "slides" without stretching as she changes her palm/butt of hand position on the face for the next step of "rubbing", "massaging"..
There really are quite a few different techniques in massaging, some for building muscle like the Sanford Bennett, some for slimming lymphatic elevating muscle like Tanaka, some like a mixture of both as in Face Detox -Master Tiong... etc...
My recommendation is to try them out, see how it feels for you and you might end up loving various different techniques for different purposes!!
And if you learn any other massage technique that you find useful and enjoy, don't hesitate to share!  |
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tryhardgirl
New Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 4
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Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:28 pm |
Thank you so much again . I am new to Essential Day Spa forum but it seems extremely inconvenient to search for anything as I need to type the CAPCHA each time. Do you all have to do that?
Also, how do I see my own post to read reply without going through Search> CAPCHA ?
If it is made more easy, I will be more happy to share even more. Currently, to search for every word I need to go through CAPCHA. I believe I must be doing wrong. |
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:05 am |
| ATester wrote: |
| tryhardgirl wrote: |
Thanks for clarifying . I was confused by Carolyn's website, she mentioned that :
Remember, one of the secrets of the CFF system is that you are sliding over the skin while the muscle is in contraction. You are NOT stretching the skin, you are sliding OVER the skin, toning the muscles in the process. How does this work, you may ask? ...........
But in her video , she massages any one spot WITHOUT lifting her hand. She did NOT slide.
Also, Master Tiong of Wuchu also moves his hands like brushing with sliding action to create friction. |
Didn't realise it was Carolyn's wording that had created your doubts. If you just follow her video it is quite clear she does not "slide" as she rubs, in any case she just "slides" without stretching as she changes her palm/butt of hand position on the face for the next step of "rubbing", "massaging"..
There really are quite a few different techniques in massaging, some for building muscle like the Sanford Bennett, some for slimming lymphatic elevating muscle like Tanaka, some like a mixture of both as in Face Detox -Master Tiong... etc...
My recommendation is to try them out, see how it feels for you and you might end up loving various different techniques for different purposes!!
And if you learn any other massage technique that you find useful and enjoy, don't hesitate to share! |
tryhardgirl and ATester That sliding over contracted muscles that Carolyn Cleaves refers to has to do with other exercises in her program not the Face Firmer. There are a total of 28 basic exercises and that's not counting the bonus exercises like Face Firmer or the Brush. The line tryhardgirl quoted I believe is from the article at the following link which is not referring to any particular exercise but the general theme of the program:
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/why-do-we-have-to-contract-the-muscles-before-we-slide-across-the-skin-and-what-about-the-forehead
The contracting before sliding technique is derived from Dr Frederick Rossiter's program. More about that can be found at this other link--Many programs ask you to grip the muscle and then contract against that resistance. CFF differs in that it doesn't do that as explained here: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/how-is-sliding-on-the-skin-superior-to-gripping-and-holding
You will confuse yourself if you take information from one program and try to apply it to another. Every program has its own rules because the authors believe that's what you need to do to achieve results. You will also confuse yourself if you only see bits of a complete program and assume that what you read in one part applies to the little bit you saw.
In Carolyn's blog where she talks about Face Firmer, she doesn't say she's sliding when doing this exercise. She does indeed say she used the idea of contracting muscles first as she learned it from both Bennett and Rossiter and that it was from that basic principle that she came up with this idea, not that she was doing exactly what Bennett did in his program within this exercise. In fact, it seems to me that by saying she combined both ideas from these guys, she is referring to taking the contraction idea from Rossiter but using the massage on the spot idea from Bennett. Here's the article:
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/the-face-firmer-massage-technique-blog
An example of an exercise in CFF where contraction happens first before sliding is in the Crows' Feet exercise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwfr4PxmFqs
I think you risk getting it wrong if you don't follow the instructions within the program you are doing but try to use the idea from another to change the way a certain program wants you to do an exercise. Master Tiong's method is different from both Carolyn's and Sanford's. Each one has it's own version of what works. I mean, if you think about it, what would be the point of having so many programs if they didn't differ from each other in some way? Also as you may have noticed, not everyone does the same program because it's different strokes for different folks. You have to choose one program and follow it as directed if you are to have any hope of getting the results promised. If you do Master Tiong's method you will have to slide as he's doing, not massage on the spot, because he isn't doing Sanford Bennett's workout, nor is he doing the CFF Face Firmer. |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:01 am |
| tryhardgirl wrote: |
Thank you so much again . I am new to Essential Day Spa forum but it seems extremely inconvenient to search for anything as I need to type the CAPCHA each time. Do you all have to do that?
Also, how do I see my own post to read reply without going through Search> CAPCHA ?
If it is made more easy, I will be more happy to share even more. Currently, to search for every word I need to go through CAPCHA. I believe I must be doing wrong. |
Hi tryhardgirl, Once you are logged in and reach 10 posts, the captcha will disappear from the search window as well as from profile > find all posts by so-and-so, so please don't get discouraged.
Also you can add any topic to your "watched list" (top right above "Log out") by clicking "Watch this topic for replies" on the bottom right of every thread.
HTHs and welcome to the forum.  |
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zwayny11
New Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 4
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Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:02 am |
| I was reading through Sanford Bennett online book and was amazed at what this man achieved. I am surprised that no one is really managed to achieve his results. I know that there was no photoshop manipulation at that time. I would be interested to hear about others experience, feedback or input about his methods. Does it really work for everyone, or was he a special super non aging guy? |
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Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:05 am |
| zwayny11 wrote: |
| I was reading through Sanford Bennett online book and was amazed at what this man achieved. I am surprised that no one is really managed to achieve his results. I know that there was no photoshop manipulation at that time. I would be interested to hear about others experience, feedback or input about his methods. Does it really work for everyone, or was he a special super non aging guy? |
I actually think that the Sanford Bennett massage method is a lot more closely related to the "Facial Detox" method shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5p9AzC9LE8&list=UU_8tJbL_Srt4xbQkcPNaTXA
Here is a wonderful "before and after" from the Facial Detox method:
You can see Sanford doing his techniques here. I know he mentions "contracting" his cheek muscles while doing deep tissue cheek massage, but I think that's different from the "friction" he speaks about. He doesn't appear to be contracting much in these photos and he does NOT say that Ninon de L'Enclos contracted her muscles while using the "friction" he spoke about.
Here is what he says in his book:
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For the face and neck, friction with the palms of the hands is an effective method of removing wrinkles, as they can be rubbed out, and the skin can be polished, as elsewhere stated, just like any other piece of leather.
And what will prove of special interest to ladies is that the friction exercises for the face and neck will surely result in a marked improvement. I have demonstrated upon my own face and neck that by this method wrinkles can be removed even in advanced age, and I am positive that if this friction exercise is commenced when the lines first appear and is persistently practiced, they will be eradicated and will not again appear until extreme old age. This is the method that was practiced by Ninon de L'Enclos, the celebrated French beauty of the seventeenth century, and it is the only successful method for removing wrinkles and retaining the smooth skin characteristic of youth. |
Here is Ninon de L'Enclos at the age of 70:
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Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:26 am |
There is an awful lot said about Ninon de L'Enclos but I think a lot of it is simply myths and fairytales. From what I know all the evidence of her is artistic interpretation rather than photos (did they have cameras at that point in time?). Very few artists would be brave to paint a lady warts n all then for fear of the actions that the lady may take (or that of her husband etc).
I also remember hearing tales of literature she wrote about what she did, but all my searching I found absolutely nothing.... so again makes me wonder. |
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:58 am |
From what I understand, it was her maid who sold leaflets with beauty recipes after Ninon had passed away. Elsewhere on this forum her skin cream recipe was discussed, and it is a clever and effective formula no doubt.
But there is a difference between 'complexion' being perfect and the absence of sag and wrinkles. With that face cream no doubt she had little or no age spots, and a well exfoliated skin (with, in the animal fats of the cream, lots of BARRIER REPAIR components!)but I think there's a reason for her to have stopped working as a courtisane in her forties.
I too am curious to see which kind of exercise or massage she really used, if any.
But it's just like Cleopatra is supposed to have bathed in milk, asses' milk, colostrum or any other ingredient the one telling the story is trying to sell - no way we can verify but the name appeals to our imagination.
Stanford Bennet's achievement is very impressive - but yes, he was a man without all the tricks and treacheries our hormones work upon us.
If maintaining eternal youth was so easy, no one would opt for going under the knife, don't you think? |
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:17 am |
Oh that makes more sense, but I've never been able to find any information on the leaflets that were published, which in this day and age is crazy. You'd think they'd exist somewhere and somehow.
I did a search for Ninon's cream and can't find anything? Lotusesther do you have a link to that thread?
| Lotusesther wrote: |
From what I understand, it was her maid who sold leaflets with beauty recipes after Ninon had passed away. Elsewhere on this forum her skin cream recipe was discussed, and it is a clever and effective formula no doubt.
But there is a difference between 'complexion' being perfect and the absence of sag and wrinkles. With that face cream no doubt she had little or no age spots, and a well exfoliated skin (with, in the animal fats of the cream, lots of BARRIER REPAIR components!)but I think there's a reason for her to have stopped working as a courtisane in her forties.
I too am curious to see which kind of exercise or massage she really used, if any.
But it's just like Cleopatra is supposed to have bathed in milk, asses' milk, colostrum or any other ingredient the one telling the story is trying to sell - no way we can verify but the name appeals to our imagination.
Stanford Bennet's achievement is very impressive - but yes, he was a man without all the tricks and treacheries our hormones work upon us.
If maintaining eternal youth was so easy, no one would opt for going under the knife, don't you think? |
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Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:24 am |
| Excellent, thank you |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:23 pm |
Exaclty.
You eat fruits aka you eat sun radiation.
You eat animals-aka you eat second hand sun radiation(cause animals eat plants).
etc.
So you finally realise that you are composed of SUNSHINE AND AIR.
So absorb the sun and breath the air!!!! |
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We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:11 pm |
Thanks a lot! Interesting the use of the onion for the face cream, I knew about mixing it in shampoo for healthy hair growth due to the sulfuric acid but hadn't focussed on the skin lightening results of it! Just been reading its great for acne prone skin too!
As I was searching more info about this I came over something about a metal golden face mask apparently used by Ninon de L'Enclos. I found it an interesting read, a bit bewildering too. I only have his book about "Exercising in bed", so I found the excerpts of another book in this blog interesting and amusing!
http://aquaeyeshadow.blogspot.com.es/2011/10/golden-mask-ninon-de-lenclos-secret-of.html |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:59 pm |
Rumor is that Cleopatra also used a gold mask for sleeping. |
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Photo taken Oct 28, 2013: http://bit.ly/17Umeou |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:58 pm |
| AngelaE8654 wrote: |
Rumor is that Cleopatra also used a gold mask for sleeping. |
Really? We're obviously missing out on something in our modern age!!  We think we are so  , .
I want to thank your for posting excerpts of Sanfords book on the massage. Does he mention anywhere how often or long to do them? I'm a huge fan of massage techniques as I've always seen results -some even bad when I've got overzealous! |
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Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:37 am |
| ATester wrote: |
| AngelaE8654 wrote: |
Rumor is that Cleopatra also used a gold mask for sleeping. |
Really? We're obviously missing out on something in our modern age!! We think we are so , .
I want to thank your for posting excerpts of Sanfords book on the massage. Does he mention anywhere how often or long to do them? I'm a huge fan of massage techniques as I've always seen results -some even bad when I've got overzealous! |
Bump.
Angela, was wondering also if, as you put up pics about his massage technique, if you could provide the link you used for the pictures and info about what Sanford said about the facial massage technique. TIA. |
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