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Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:30 am  |
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum and am thrilled to find some many skin care junkies, such as myself, out there!
I was wondering if any of you have heard of or tried products with Matrixyl? It is a peptide that is said to be as effective as Retin-A for winkles without the irritation it causes. It is supposed to be far better than topical Vitamin C. I have read of clinical studies that support the claims, but I have not heard of anyone who has tried it. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks so much. |
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:13 pm |
| Hi,I've been wondering about Matrixyl also. I've read that Nuxe Wrinkle Corrector for Eye and Lips has 5% Matrixyl which I think is the percentage needed for results. But Nuxe products are not widely available. Haven't personally tried this myself. And it's seems difficult to find a product with the correct percentage of matrixyl. I also noticed that in the study I read that Matrixyl was compared and better to 5% Vitamin C, but most Vitamin C serums are at least 10% so I don't think thats a fair comparison. I love my vitamin c and will stick with it (and Renova) until there are some more reports/studies/reviews! |
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:44 pm |
| Matrixyl is palmitoyl pentapeptide. Should be used in at least 4% concentration to produce a nice effect. Supposedly, it "tricks" the skin into thinking that it needs to make more collagen, thus a firmer skin. They compare to Retin-A which also thickens the skin but can be very irritating to some. Matrixyl is not irritating to your skin. I'm waiting to see who comes out with a good formulation before jumping on this one. Olay Regenerist has it in the ingredient list but so far down the list, can't believe that it would make up 4% of the total... |
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:23 am |
Matrixyl is a much less effective peptide than Argireline. The thought behind the palmitoyl pentapeptide is to try and trick the body into producing Collagen. This was first tried by Strivectin and eventhough they are a huge company in this industry they made their mistakes and are correcting them. They finally got enough grief from consumers who were using it and getting no results and many skin irritations to go back to formula. That is exactly what they did and came out with their next product with the same peptide at a higher percentage with less irritation. This still isn't the answer as the formula and percentages are still not optimum for the claims it makes. First of all the percentages of this less active peptide that are in these other items are no where high enough to show any benefits in the near future approximately 3 months minimum (maybe). The other disheartening truth about this peptide is that there is no conclusive proof that it will promote collagen synthesis. Why buy a product on a guess rather than fact. No matter what product you buy from any company the peptide should be Argireline at 10% which is proven optimum. The reason Janson-Beckett went with the formula it has is for precise reasons.
We can guarantee the item will remove fine lines and wrinkles with the AH3 at 10%. We can also guarantee it will repair current skin damage from the Alpha Lipoic Acid as well as prevent future damage. The DMAE for the super firming agent. We include collagen in our formula because in its state and with our delivery system we guarantee it gets absorbed and plumps the skin without needled or invasive procedures. Last but certainly not least the importance of high potency Elastin and Soy. The last ingredients are very important to nourish the skin and put back into the skin what it is now lacking as we all age. All of these things are guarantees no hopes or guesses. The AlphaDerma has been sold around the country and world in the back bars of high end spas and Dermatology centers used by the professional aestheticians and the Dermatalogists. That is how we test and optimize our formulations. We have thousands of professionals using the product before it ever goes to the consumer. I can't think of too many skin care companies that even have the capability to do that as we make our own products in house. One last though about several products sold on the market today; take Avotone is that the product or the company, when you call for questions do you get knowledgeable people answering the phones or is it simply a fullfillment house that carries hundreds of other lines and just takes orders for them. Same situation with Hydroderm is that the company or the name of the product. If you call for questions do you reach Hydroderm or just a fulfillment house.There are many sites out today that can be searched on google about the terrible reputation that hydroderm has in doing business with their customers. The same goes for Nexiderm who has a terrible reputation and they have only been out less than 6 months. We feel that these are fly by night companies that are not always honorable and aren't looking for repeat customers but just get the first sale and moove on. The testimony to a company is when you have happy customers and the best part is repeat customers as then you know you are doing something right. I can only say that we are a company with over 33 years experience that cares about our customers as well as the retailers who sell our items and we will always put out the best possible products for the consumer and our valued retailers and distributors. We are always available to answer any skin care question even if it has nothing to do with our line. We just want to transfer as much of our knowledge to the general consumer so they can make an edjucated and safe choice and not be duped by slick advertising and false statements.
| betterat40 wrote: |
| Matrixyl is palmitoyl pentapeptide. Should be used in at least 4% concentration to produce a nice effect. Supposedly, it "tricks" the skin into thinking that it needs to make more collagen, thus a firmer skin. They compare to Retin-A which also thickens the skin but can be very irritating to some. Matrixyl is not irritating to your skin. I'm waiting to see who comes out with a good formulation before jumping on this one. Olay Regenerist has it in the ingredient list but so far down the list, can't believe that it would make up 4% of the total... |
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JB Cosmeceuticals |
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:27 am |
Hi,
Thank you for the additional info on Matrixyl. It sounds amazing if it really works. I wish companies were required to put the % of each ingredient on the product label! Through a google for Matrixyl search I foundwww.seattleskincare.com. They have a serum called Super Plus Serum that contains, "Argireline @15%, Matrixyl 3000 @10%, HA @60%, and Idebenone @5% -all together in 1 serum, PLUS MORE FABULOUS INGREDIENTS!". The problem is the cost...which is $200.00!
I think I'll wait and do some more research.
Thanks again, joani.sp |
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:48 am |
Dear Ian S.,
Thank you for your very comprehensive answer to my questions about Matrixyl. After posting the info I found on the site I mentioned,www.seattleskincare.com., I read your in-depth assessment. Although they mention Argireline @ 15% in their Super Plus Serum, there is just something about the website that is creepy. Also, does $200.00 seem a bit costly for these ingredients? Where do you suggest I find more info about Janson-Beckett products?
Thank you for your time and your clarification of peptides.
joani.sp |
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:14 am |
Joani, Essential Day Spa carries our items and has a very knowledgeable staff. The other line with 15% Argireline sounds a little hoaky. The highest safe and clinically tested percentage of argireline is 10%. Other formulas that use a higher percentage do that for lack of a good blend of other active ingredients and get little results. Please contact EDS and I am sure they will help you. If you still need further info you may call us at 1-888-476-3600. Thanks and have a nice day.
| joani.sp wrote: |
Dear Ian S.,
Thank you for your very comprehensive answer to my questions about Matrixyl. After posting the info I found on the site I mentioned,www.seattleskincare.com., I read your in-depth assessment. Although they mention Argireline @ 15% in their Super Plus Serum, there is just something about the website that is creepy. Also, does $200.00 seem a bit costly for these ingredients? Where do you suggest I find more info about Janson-Beckett products?
Thank you for your time and your clarification of peptides.
joani.sp |
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JB Cosmeceuticals |
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:24 pm |
Here is a nice abstract on the study that confirmed matrixyl, (palmitoyl pentapeptide), as a collagen stimulator. Following it is an in-depth report on the study if you feel like reading for awhile. Sounds like Matrixyl when used in the correct concentration is a very effective alternative to retinol. Combined with Argeriline... ,that would be a fun combination - anti-wrinkle muscle relaxer meets collagen stimulator. Yahoo!!! BUT, no way is it worth $200!!! Seattle Skincare has some questionable quality control, too. I have received product from them with hair in it. They did not accept the return nor offer to replace it either.
"Matrixyl is an alternative to retinol for dermal matrix repair. It is a synthetic peptide, fatty acid mixed with amino acids.
Sederma Reports Major 6-Month in-vivo Anti-wrinkle Study:
Sederma in-vivo double-blind study on the wrinkle assessment of the eye zone (i.e., crow's feet) to evaluate the effectiveness of the company's lipo-peptide MATRIXYL.
The study used profilometry (image analysis of skin) to measure the density, depth and volume of wrinkles around the eyes and consisted of treating the area and monitoring the changes over time. The study was conducted using a cream containing 3% MATRIXYL and involved two separate clinical trials, one comparing the MATRIXYL cream to a placebo cream, the other to a brand name product containing 5% Vitamin C. In every case, the company reports, the findings were statistically significant, saying treatment with the MATRIXYL cream produced a 50% decrease in wrinkle depth, a 68% decrease in wrinkle density and a 24% decrease in wrinkle volume. The in-vivo study is supported by separate ex-vivo studies that show MATRIXYL is more effective in stimulating collagen synthesis than Vitamin C or TGFb1.
MATRIXYL is a synthetic pentapeptide (Palmitoyl-Lys-Thr-Thr-Lys-Ser) that mimics a fragment of Procollagen Type I by stimulating the matrix molecules (Collagen I, III and IV and Fibronectin) to reduce the appearance of wrinkles. "
"Dermatology Times
By Cheryl Guttman, Staff Correspondent Dermatology Times
Vol. 23, No. 9 September 2002
Matrixyl [CAA001] that is 100% from the manufacturer. In formulations, use 3-8% as recommended by the manufacturer.
Paris- Results from a series of studies presented at the World Congress of Dermaatology support the conclusion that palmitoyl-pentapeptide 3 (Pal-KTTKS) is a very sale and effective agent for improving the appearance of photoaged facial skin.
Pal-KTTS (Matrixyl) is modified chain offive aminoacids developed as a cosmetic active ingredient and patented, manufactured, and sold for commercial use by the French company Sederma SA. Results of a Sederma-sponsored study demonstrated topical application of a product containing 3 ppm Pal-KTTKS improved wrinkle appearance more quickly than retinal and without causing irritation. The clinical benefits of Pal-KTTKS were confirmed in a separate study that also included histological assessments showing positive changes in elastin and collagen IV.
The efficacy and safety of the modified pentapeptide were also demonstrated in a randomized, double-blind, split-faced clinical study undertaken by Proctor & Gamble, in which objective and subjective outsome assessments performed after 12 weeks of treatment showed significant benefits of the active formulation for reducing the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, age spots, and skin firmness. Those improvements occurred with excellent tolerability and without compromising barrier function.
Pal-KTTKS has undergone extensive in vitro and in vivo testing, including a wide range of toxicological investigations and with data being reported on more than 200 panelists participating in five independent clinical trials. "Based on the evidence accumulated through that research program, I think it is fair to state that this active peptide is a viable alternative to retinoids, in particular retinal, for wrinkle repair. To our knowledge, its high potency, ease of formulation, and the total absence of irritation potential set it apart from any other wrinkle treatment active presently proposed for cosmetic applications," said Karl Lintner, Ph.D., managing and technical director, Sederma SA, Paris.
Down the road
"Pal-KTTKS appears to be very intriguing technology. We are keeping it in our arsenal of active ingredients to consider for future products, and currently we are continuing our formulation work to develop and aesthetically pleasing product for future testing", said Donald L. Bissett, Ph.D., a research fellin in the Skin Care Group, The Proctor & Gamble Co., Cincinnati, Ohio.
The Sederma-sponsored histological study was undertaken with the collaboration of Jean Revuz, M.D., professor of dermatology, Hospital Mondor, France, and president, 20th World Congress of Dermatology. It was a four-month, double-blind study in which 49 women applied Pal-KTTLS (n=22) or vehicle (n=27) twice daily to the face and decollet. Profilometry and 3d digital image analysis showed sites treated with Pal-KTTKS exhibited exhibited significant improvements in skin roughness (-13 percent), wrinkle volume (-36 percent) and wrinkle depth (-27 percent), while there were no changes in any of those endpoints with the vehicle.
Skin biopsies were taken from six women after two and four months, and the results were consistent with the clinical benefits observed. Ths histological assessments showed Pal-KETTS application was associated with theincreases in elastin fiber density and thickness and improved regularity of collagen IV at the dermal-epidermal junction, Dr. Lintner reported.
"Both of these proteins are critical supporting elements in smoothm, supple skin," he said.
The active controlled study compared the effects of cosmetic creams containing Pal-KTTKS 3 ppm or retinal 700 ppm on photoaged skin in 16 subjects. It used split-face, double-blind design and included profilomentry, echoghraphy, and clinical assessments after two and four months of treatment.
Sans irritation
A benefit of Pal-KTTKS over retinal for reducing wrinkles was noted after two months and that occurred in the absence of irritation reactions. At study conclusion, further improvement in wrinkles and over-all roughness was noted in Pal-KTTKS-treated skin along with a average 9 percent increase in skin thickness in Pal-KTTKS-treated skin. At the same time, similar changes were noted with retinal treatment.
"DNA array studies show that both Pal-KTTKS and retinal activate genes associated with wound healing mechanisms, but that Pal-KTTKS does not elicit the pro-inflammatory actions associated with retinal," Dr. Lintner said.
"The mechanism studies indicate that KTTPS, like retinoids, improves the appearance of photodamaged skin by stimulating collagen production, however, it seems to do so without causing the irritation thatis associated withretinoids. That can be an important benefit in clinical use because a lot of consumers avoid or discontyinue topical retinoids because of the side effects," Dr. Bissett said.
Study Parameters
The Proctor & Gamble study he conducted enrolled 92 women aged 35 to 55 years of age with moderate to severe photo-damage and Fitzpatrick skin types I to III. After a two-week preconditioning period, women began applying Pal-KTTKS in a moisturizing base to one side of the face twice daily and the vehicle contralaterally. No other skin care products except for a supplied facial cleanser and broad spectrum UV sunscreen were allowed.
Changes in fine lines and wrinkles were assessed by comparisons of high-resolution digital images taken at baseoine and every four weeks during treatment. Efficacy was assessed both by digital image analysis and trained graders, and the study participants were asked to rate effects on their skin appearance.
Treatment benefits for improving fine lines and wrinkles were noted as early as four weeks after starting Pal-KTTKS application. At 12 weeks, wrinkle length was reduced from 170-4 mm at baseline to 147.7 mm and the participants subjective ratings indicated significant benefits for improving age spots, dark circles, and skin firmness.
"The study methods also included measurement of transepidermal water loss at baseline and every four weeks, and those results revealed no negative effects of Pal-KTTKS on the skin barrier, and overall the treatment was very well tolerated," Dr. Bissett reported.
KTTKS, a fragment of alpha-pro-collaagen I, was originally synthesized and investigated at the University of Tennessee based on knowledge that collagen fragments might act through a feedback mechanism to regulate collagen synthesis. Initial studies performed by those investigators in fibroblast cultures showed the pentapeptide increased production of the extracellular matrix proteins collagen I, collagen III and fibronectin. That activity prompted interest in the potential value of KTTKS as an ingredient in anti-aging skin products.
However, as percutaneous penetration of the water-soluble, charged peptide is poor, scientists at Sederma conjugated KTTKS with palmitoyl, a 16-carbon fatty acid moiety. They confirmed the modified compound diffuses through the stratum corneum and into the skin and showed in vitro and ex vivo that it increases collagen I and glycosaminoglycan synthesis.
DT
"To our knowledge, its(Pal-KTTKS) high potency, easy of formulation, and total absence of irritation potential set it apart from any other wrinkle treatment active presently proposed for cosmetic applications".
Karl Lintner, Ph.D." |
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:01 am |
I will make it a short post as I have had a long day and I am posting at 3am. For every clinical study you can produce with a positive outcome I can find just as many if not more with negative studies. I will get into this more indepth another time but I can say that all the best peptide items on the market today use Argireline at it's optimum 10%. Why is that the argireline based products cost so much more and show much faster benefits? Simply stated it is hands down more effective and it is the only peptide that gives a botox like effect without the side effects. The palmitoyl pentapeptide should not be considered a botox alternative because it does not work on the same principle as a nerve inhibitor that relaxes the muscles by blocking the repetative movements such as laughing or frowning. Especially while we sleep we contract our facial muscles without even our knowledge. Lets face it anyone who has skin care knowledge must realize that collagen has been around forever and is not the answer for a botox like result eventhough collagen is good to plump the skin it can't remove the fine lines and wrinkles by relaxing the facial muscles and thereby releaving the wrinkles with cumulative dermal benefits,unless it is injected. Even when it is injected it is not a long lasting effect and must be followed up to keep the desired look. Collagen again is an integral part of the plumping of the skin but it is certainly not the most cutting edge way to get the amazing results people are looking for. Even if the palmitoyl pentapeptide would promote collagen synthesis that is not enough to get the superior benefits that the argireline gives. Using collagen in a formulation with other more active and proven ingredients is certainly a help to any formula that has the proper delivery system but it again is not the answer. I will later come up with many other clinical studies which show that the palmitoyl pentapeptide is not 100% proven and takes much longer to see benefits at the meager percentages most skin care companies use.
| betterat40 wrote: |
Here is a nice abstract on the study that confirmed matrixyl, (palmitoyl pentapeptide), as a collagen stimulator. Following it is an in-depth report on the study if you feel like reading for awhile. Sounds like Matrixyl when used in the correct concentration is a very effective alternative to retinol. Combined with Argeriline...,that would be a fun combination - anti-wrinkle muscle relaxer meets collagen stimulator. Yahoo!!! BUT, no way is it worth $200!!! Seattle Skincare has some questionable quality control, too. I have received product from them with hair in it. They did not accept the return nor offer to replace it either.
"Matrixyl is an alternative to retinol for dermal matrix repair. It is a synthetic peptide, fatty acid mixed with amino acids.
Sederma Reports Major 6-Month in-vivo Anti-wrinkle Study:
Sederma in-vivo double-blind study on the wrinkle assessment of the eye zone (i.e., crow's feet) to evaluate the effectiveness of the company's lipo-peptide MATRIXYL.
The study used profilometry (image analysis of skin) to measure the density, depth and volume of wrinkles around the eyes and consisted of treating the area and monitoring the changes over time. The study was conducted using a cream containing 3% MATRIXYL and involved two separate clinical trials, one comparing the MATRIXYL cream to a placebo cream, the other to a brand name product containing 5% Vitamin C. In every case, the company reports, the findings were statistically significant, saying treatment with the MATRIXYL cream produced a 50% decrease in wrinkle depth, a 68% decrease in wrinkle density and a 24% decrease in wrinkle volume. The in-vivo study is supported by separate ex-vivo studies that show MATRIXYL is more effective in stimulating collagen synthesis than Vitamin C or TGFb1.
MATRIXYL is a synthetic pentapeptide (Palmitoyl-Lys-Thr-Thr-Lys-Ser) that mimics a fragment of Procollagen Type I by stimulating the matrix molecules (Collagen I, III and IV and Fibronectin) to reduce the appearance of wrinkles. "
"Dermatology Times
By Cheryl Guttman, Staff Correspondent Dermatology Times
Vol. 23, No. 9 September 2002
Matrixyl [CAA001] that is 100% from the manufacturer. In formulations, use 3-8% as recommended by the manufacturer.
Paris- Results from a series of studies presented at the World Congress of Dermaatology support the conclusion that palmitoyl-pentapeptide 3 (Pal-KTTKS) is a very sale and effective agent for improving the appearance of photoaged facial skin.
Pal-KTTS (Matrixyl) is modified chain offive aminoacids developed as a cosmetic active ingredient and patented, manufactured, and sold for commercial use by the French company Sederma SA. Results of a Sederma-sponsored study demonstrated topical application of a product containing 3 ppm Pal-KTTKS improved wrinkle appearance more quickly than retinal and without causing irritation. The clinical benefits of Pal-KTTKS were confirmed in a separate study that also included histological assessments showing positive changes in elastin and collagen IV.
The efficacy and safety of the modified pentapeptide were also demonstrated in a randomized, double-blind, split-faced clinical study undertaken by Proctor & Gamble, in which objective and subjective outsome assessments performed after 12 weeks of treatment showed significant benefits of the active formulation for reducing the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, age spots, and skin firmness. Those improvements occurred with excellent tolerability and without compromising barrier function.
Pal-KTTKS has undergone extensive in vitro and in vivo testing, including a wide range of toxicological investigations and with data being reported on more than 200 panelists participating in five independent clinical trials. "Based on the evidence accumulated through that research program, I think it is fair to state that this active peptide is a viable alternative to retinoids, in particular retinal, for wrinkle repair. To our knowledge, its high potency, ease of formulation, and the total absence of irritation potential set it apart from any other wrinkle treatment active presently proposed for cosmetic applications," said Karl Lintner, Ph.D., managing and technical director, Sederma SA, Paris.
Down the road
"Pal-KTTKS appears to be very intriguing technology. We are keeping it in our arsenal of active ingredients to consider for future products, and currently we are continuing our formulation work to develop and aesthetically pleasing product for future testing", said Donald L. Bissett, Ph.D., a research fellin in the Skin Care Group, The Proctor & Gamble Co., Cincinnati, Ohio.
The Sederma-sponsored histological study was undertaken with the collaboration of Jean Revuz, M.D., professor of dermatology, Hospital Mondor, France, and president, 20th World Congress of Dermatology. It was a four-month, double-blind study in which 49 women applied Pal-KTTLS (n=22) or vehicle (n=27) twice daily to the face and decollet. Profilometry and 3d digital image analysis showed sites treated with Pal-KTTKS exhibited exhibited significant improvements in skin roughness (-13 percent), wrinkle volume (-36 percent) and wrinkle depth (-27 percent), while there were no changes in any of those endpoints with the vehicle.
Skin biopsies were taken from six women after two and four months, and the results were consistent with the clinical benefits observed. Ths histological assessments showed Pal-KETTS application was associated with theincreases in elastin fiber density and thickness and improved regularity of collagen IV at the dermal-epidermal junction, Dr. Lintner reported.
"Both of these proteins are critical supporting elements in smoothm, supple skin," he said.
The active controlled study compared the effects of cosmetic creams containing Pal-KTTKS 3 ppm or retinal 700 ppm on photoaged skin in 16 subjects. It used split-face, double-blind design and included profilomentry, echoghraphy, and clinical assessments after two and four months of treatment.
Sans irritation
A benefit of Pal-KTTKS over retinal for reducing wrinkles was noted after two months and that occurred in the absence of irritation reactions. At study conclusion, further improvement in wrinkles and over-all roughness was noted in Pal-KTTKS-treated skin along with a average 9 percent increase in skin thickness in Pal-KTTKS-treated skin. At the same time, similar changes were noted with retinal treatment.
"DNA array studies show that both Pal-KTTKS and retinal activate genes associated with wound healing mechanisms, but that Pal-KTTKS does not elicit the pro-inflammatory actions associated with retinal," Dr. Lintner said.
"The mechanism studies indicate that KTTPS, like retinoids, improves the appearance of photodamaged skin by stimulating collagen production, however, it seems to do so without causing the irritation thatis associated withretinoids. That can be an important benefit in clinical use because a lot of consumers avoid or discontyinue topical retinoids because of the side effects," Dr. Bissett said.
Study Parameters
The Proctor & Gamble study he conducted enrolled 92 women aged 35 to 55 years of age with moderate to severe photo-damage and Fitzpatrick skin types I to III. After a two-week preconditioning period, women began applying Pal-KTTKS in a moisturizing base to one side of the face twice daily and the vehicle contralaterally. No other skin care products except for a supplied facial cleanser and broad spectrum UV sunscreen were allowed.
Changes in fine lines and wrinkles were assessed by comparisons of high-resolution digital images taken at baseoine and every four weeks during treatment. Efficacy was assessed both by digital image analysis and trained graders, and the study participants were asked to rate effects on their skin appearance.
Treatment benefits for improving fine lines and wrinkles were noted as early as four weeks after starting Pal-KTTKS application. At 12 weeks, wrinkle length was reduced from 170-4 mm at baseline to 147.7 mm and the participants subjective ratings indicated significant benefits for improving age spots, dark circles, and skin firmness.
"The study methods also included measurement of transepidermal water loss at baseline and every four weeks, and those results revealed no negative effects of Pal-KTTKS on the skin barrier, and overall the treatment was very well tolerated," Dr. Bissett reported.
KTTKS, a fragment of alpha-pro-collaagen I, was originally synthesized and investigated at the University of Tennessee based on knowledge that collagen fragments might act through a feedback mechanism to regulate collagen synthesis. Initial studies performed by those investigators in fibroblast cultures showed the pentapeptide increased production of the extracellular matrix proteins collagen I, collagen III and fibronectin. That activity prompted interest in the potential value of KTTKS as an ingredient in anti-aging skin products.
However, as percutaneous penetration of the water-soluble, charged peptide is poor, scientists at Sederma conjugated KTTKS with palmitoyl, a 16-carbon fatty acid moiety. They confirmed the modified compound diffuses through the stratum corneum and into the skin and showed in vitro and ex vivo that it increases collagen I and glycosaminoglycan synthesis.
DT
"To our knowledge, its(Pal-KTTKS) high potency, easy of formulation, and total absence of irritation potential set it apart from any other wrinkle treatment active presently proposed for cosmetic applications".
Karl Lintner, Ph.D." |
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JB Cosmeceuticals |
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:23 am |
I agree with Ian that Matrixyl is not a botox alternative. It is more of a retinol alternative. It is definitely not a muscle relaxant. Also, as we all know here, most companies, due to expense? or greediness? do not use the proper % of active ingredients but are happy to list the ingredient prominently in advertisements. So, ladies, keep your eyes peeled and your %'s at your fingertips lest you be ripped off!  |
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:00 am |
Hi,
It is so interesting to me that my question has generated issues about the science of skincare and of studies and controls.
My original question about Matrixyl was not for use as a Botox alternative. I'm more interested in a product that would help with oily and acne-prone skin, and result in a smoother, more even skin surface. I don't think I'm so unique in that I'm now middle-aged and still have issues with oil and breakouts. Many products on the market dry my skin of mosture, but it remains oily. Dry and oily is not pretty! I'm tired of this paradox and have been looking for a product that could address both conditions. I have been using products since my teens (Retin-A, topical antibiotics, perscription strength BP, antibiotics and two courses of Acutane). My skin is mostly clear now (after that mountain of chemicals!), but I'm still looking for a smoothness and "glow of health". This is perhaps impossible to achieve, but I would be happy with a simple skincare process that would address dryness, oil, some breakouts and minor sun damage. I seem to place my faith more in science than in "natural" claims which is what started this interest in Matrixyl in the first place. Thank you all for this frank and interesting discussion. I almost want to say, "just tell me what to use"!!! I look forward to a continuing discussion.
Joani |
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:15 am |
There is a company, Isomers in Canada who do a product with Matrixyl. I have used some of their products before and had the best results Ive had with a product before, but alas the range isnt too easy to get hold of over here. One of the shopping channels in the UK sells the following kit which is MEGA cheap, for the bottle of Matrixyl on its own is £23 and the whole kit is a special for £19.99
Wrinkle Defense formula contains linseed, flax extract and Matrixyl, a consistent micro-collagen. These aid smoothness and provide nutrition for the skin.
Absolute Wrinkle Defense Anti-Ageing Three-Step System includes:
1. Matrixyl Wrinkle Defense Serum
2. Acetyl Hexapeptide-3 Line Reducer
3. Desert Youth Anti-Ageing Friendly Bacteria Pump
1. Matrixyl Wrinkle Defense Serum 30ml
This flax-based serum features a unique blend of pure ingredients to work on resilience and vibrancy, helping towards a smoother, younger-looking skin.
Matrixyl serum is designed to stimulate important components and diminish the appearance of wrinkles by restoring the skin’s own matrix.
Benefits:
Reduces appearance of wrinkles
Smoothes appearance and plumps up skin
Helps softness and elasticity
Collagen stimulates collagen!
Helps skin’s natural moisture magnet.
Helps to calm.
2. Acetyl Hexapeptide-3 Line Reducer 15% solution 15ml
This solution contains flax extract to aim for significant smoothing and improvement in the appearance of wrinkle depth.
Natural peptides address the look of your skin’s creases, without also losing your facial expression!
Benefits:
Reduces visible severity and depth of wrinkles
Has an anti-wrinkle effect on appearance
Use around eyes, forehead and neck
Non-toxic
Natural peptide formulation
Provides nutrition
Calms skin.
Apply once or twice a day after cleaning, to lines on the forehead, brow, eye contour and neck. Follow with a moisturizer.
3. Desert Youth Anti-Aging Friendly Bacteria Pump
This cream formula contains cabbage rose extract and other key ingredients to help prevent dehydration and skin damage from environmental stresses and climate.
Benefits:
Moisturizes and sustains, naturally
Protects
Balances all skin types
Hydrates: increases, stabilizes and sustains moisture for longer periods
Protects against environmental dryness, heat, and cold
Supports skin’s protective mechanisms
Acts as a multi-vitamin for skin
Natural scent
Apply once or twice a day, including before sleep, all over the face and neck – or any part of the body you feel would benefit from anti-ageing. |
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:16 am |
| p.s Just checked this site and its out of stock - no wonder...... |
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:55 am |
Joani,
I'm sorry I got off track there...Given what you describe, I would suggest the following:
AM:
BHA cleanser like Dr. Hauschka's to keep pores clean inside and out.
C+ Firming serum to regulate oil production, prevent hyperpigmentation and even out/brighten your skin tone/texture.
Daily Sunscreen.
PM:
Retin-A every other night.
AHA serum on off Retin-A night. The AHA will give your skin a freshness and clarity that is hard to get with other products.
As needed: Jojoba Oil. This is the one thing I have found that balances my skin out when it's going "schizo"....Flakies but oily, too. One night of jojoba oil and the next day, skin is back to normal.
This resembles my current routine. Really works well for me. I use C serum and AHA serum from CellularSkinRx.com, Desert Essence jojoba oil, Retin-A 0.05% cream and Neutrogena Pore Refining Cleanser. I would recommend the Dr. H though for you since sounds like a BHA cleanser would help more to prevent breakouts.
Hope that helped! (Notice no mention of matrixyl.  Because if you are using Retin-a, matrixyl is not nearly as powerful at thickening the skin. However, if you are looking to spot treat specific wrinkles like crow's feet, forehead lines, frown lines, a product with acetyl hexapeptide (argeriline) would be a good choice.) |
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:17 pm |
Thank you betterat40,
I've been "off-line" and just reviewed your skin care advice. I actually have to visit my dermatologist soon (for my annual mole check up. Oh, that's fun...not!).
A bit of a funny story...the last time I want to the pharmacy to refill my perscription for Retin-A Micro, the pharmacist said that my insurance would not cover it because I was "out of the listed age range for the product". In other words...I was too old for it. My doctor is required to write a letter to my insurance company telling them, yes, I'm old and yes, I still get breakouts!
I didn't realize that Matrixyl and Retin-A were used for like skin conditions. I may do as you suggested, put a Matrixyl product on specific areas, as I never could but Retin-A Micro anywhere my eyes.
Thanks again for your help. This forum is great. Everyone has been so helpful! |
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Terre'
New Member
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2008
Posts: 1
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Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:02 pm |
| Hello from CO.I'm Terre' going to be 55 on the 25th. I fell upon this site by accident and I am REALLY, Really looking for the best anti aging cream with in reason. I hear that the products with fresh collagen, argireline, matrixyl 3000 and hyaluronic acid are the best. That lead me to the site of Annabelle( or something like that)Hear on this site I heard all the bad reports. I'm glad I found out because I almost was ready to buy. I also heard of a product called Revitol anti aging cream. It too has the same ingredents, But my question to anyone out there is this product any good or has any one tried this one? I too have been searching and googling and keep coming back to Revitol. Also another one is Derimaxin. Does anyone have a clue cause I sure don't. Would love advise. Thanks to all. Terre' |
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Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:50 pm |
I used something with Matrixyl and Argireline in it and ended up with "the uglies"! I'm quite sure it was the Argireline though.
It really did damage my skin, making it droopy, especially around my mouth. The Matrixyl did make my skin more plump while I was using it, but I find the effect weaker than that of a good LED device (red light) like Tanda. |
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Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:25 pm |
Hi all. In one of the posts above, it was mentioned that Retin-A "thickens" the skin? I've read very recently just the opposite--that Retin-A thins the skin, and therefore should be used along with copper peptides which are purported to thicken skin. Does anyone have a definitive answer on this please?
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Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:30 am |
| lefemme wrote: |
| Hi all. In one of the posts above, it was mentioned that Retin-A "thickens" the skin? I've read very recently just the opposite--that Retin-A thins the skin, and therefore should be used along with copper peptides which are purported to thicken skin. Does anyone have a definitive answer on this please? |
Retin-A will thin the outermost layer of the skin. That's why it causes peeling and flaking. I saw a study where Retin-A was shown to cause thinning of the outermost layer, stratum corneum, by 25 per cent. On the other hand, Retin-A is proven to stimulate the production of collagen in the deeper layers of the skin, i.e. promoting thickening of the skin. HTH. |
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:40 am |
| That's a very good and clear resolution of the thins-versus-thickens paradox of Retin A. Thanks, septembergirl... |
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Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:11 pm |
Can I just ask then... if im already using retin a micro - would using matrixyl be worth it?? Can i use both for added benefits??
thanks |
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Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:13 pm |
| I use tazorac at night and matrixyl 3000 during the day. I don't see a problem with it. |
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Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:32 pm |
Skincare: I also use Taz nightly along with Matrixyl products with the Dermaroller with very good results. I have almost no lines along side my mouth now and I'm 52. I do not use Argireline products by choice simply because I do not like mucking with muscle relaxants (not natural to me). I have had significant reduction in lines. Someone who left our work over 7 years ago stopped me on the street yesterday and said she almost didn't recognize me bacause I looked so much younger.
I do think everybody has to choose what works for them AND that they feel comfortable with. |
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50+, combo skin, roller fan |
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Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:02 pm |
| sharky wrote: |
Skincare: I also use Taz nightly along with Matrixyl products with the Dermaroller with very good results. I have almost no lines along side my mouth now and I'm 52. I do not use Argireline products by choice simply because I do not like mucking with muscle relaxants (not natural to me). I have had significant reduction in lines. Someone who left our work over 7 years ago stopped me on the street yesterday and said she almost didn't recognize me bacause I looked so much younger.
I do think everybody has to choose what works for them AND that they feel comfortable with. |
Sharky, you always give me hope when it comes to your anti aging techniques. I'm 36 and the lines are still there...well maybe, some of them have decreased. I was using the roller but stopped. I think I will start again. Keep posting Sharky, you give us hope.  |
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Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:14 am |
| Matrixyl has never done anything for my skin. I used to use Isomers for about 3 years. I used Matrixyl and Matrixyl 3000. I never saw any improvement until I incorporated Retin-A, an AHA and Argeriline into my skincare regimen. From the reading that I have done, peptides have never really been proven to work although they may help some people. That's why most dermatologists don't recommend them or prescribe them. I don't think they hurt your skin at all but I beleive there needs to be alot more research into peptides. They are not the miracle ingredient most skincare companies make them out to be. I've never seen good results from a skincare product based solely on peptides, at least not on my skin. |
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| Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:37 am |
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