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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:26 am  |
This has been asked repeatedly, and it would be great to compile our ideas for new members, to help them on the right track, and save them from expensive mistakes.
There are certainly places to start off from, that are neither expensive, but are definitely the basis of an anti-aging skin care program.
I'll put down my ideas, but hope others will pitch in.
This has all been shared on EDS before, but there is so much for new members to go through, it's often hard to know where to start, so they are only getting the newest 'hottest' threads about the latest gadgets. However, that is not the starting point, these are investments after the groundwork has been laid down. I'm sure most of us already know all this, but just in case:
I believe it should start with the proven SkinCare basics. Topicals: Skin slows down in cell turn over as we age, so helping that along will keep it acting like a younger, more healthy skin. Retin A has been proven for decades to speed up cell turnover, correct sun damage, thicken skin, and more. You can start at a lower percentage to adjust, use it every second day, use one of the other forms like retinol. But including it in some way will slow down the aging, and reverse some of it to quite an impressive degree in many people. It did amazing things on my sun damaged skin after I sunbathed on the Australian beaches all my youth. Because I bought multiple tubes of .1 percent, I use it only once or twice per week now, around all the other things I like to use on my skin.
Vitamin C is also proven to help build collagen, so is good to be included, and there are other topicals with research behind them as well. Often the research comes from vested interests, but great antioxidants can be included for general skin health, as well as oils. It doesn't need to costs a fortune.
If you have a sun damaged skin, texture problems, wrinkles etc, I believe judicious usage of TCA peels (those are what I am personally experienced in, but there are others) can have an incredible impact. You must follow instructions and start low. I have worked with it though and being confident, have given both myself and my husband a med-deep peel (30% which I absolutely do not recommend anyone inexperienced do. Actually I don't recommend going above 25% at all. People claim amazing results layering lower percentages). My husband (52 yrs) got results that you would see from a plastic surgeons. Deep wrinkles have entirely disappeared, and his skin has tightened dramatically. Of course he had been using the retin A and C serums in preparation (although he had stopped a week before). Once again, you can get great results with much lighter peels. They can be very cheaply bought from MUAC.com and platinum skin care if I remember correctly. Be aware, that just like going to the dermatologist or plastic surgeon to have this treatment, the downtime afterwards is real. I took two weeks to recover from that peel (my husband was about ten days), with redness a couple of weeks longer. The scabs covering our whole faces would have horrified most - but I had read up on deep peels performed by professionals, and knew all about the aftermath and aftercare. Nonetheless it is scary. Don't do it. Do look into lower percentages though. You can take a wrinkled pigmented skin to looking much smoother and even toned.
Dermarolling. I believe in the results you can get from this treatment, however it is not for the faint of heart. The new electric systems like My-M make it a lot easier, but just like the peel above, there is significant pain and down time. Both of these treatments can be done professionally (at much greater cost). My husband looks fine the next day, whereas I am swollen and red for four days. Results you can expect from these treatments are significantly increased collagen production ie. healthier looking and behaving skin. it should look thicker and more elastic, with diminishing wrinkles over time. And when I say over time, it takes a minimum of a month after a treatment for the collagen to have responded fully, and results are accumulative. Thankfully you only need a deep treatment every 6 weeks or so, and there are numbing creams. I know that inflicting these treatments on oneself is not everybody's cup of tea. An alternative to these treatments (though I don't believe they work quite as deeply) are:
The new laser gadgets, Tria and Reaura. They work on the similar proven principle, causing small amounts of tissue damage to trigger the healing process. Once the healing mechanism is in action, it decides to keep going, and fix up any of the degraded collagen while its at it. your wrinkles are a result of damaged collagen and elastin, so they get a nice little go over. So both dermarolling and the lasers work by hurting the skin a bit to trigger this healing cascade. It is proven to work quite well. Will it lift your face? Everything is relative. You have to see how much damage exists. Sag is difficult, because its usually caused by the slippage of you facial fat pads too. I don't know of ANYTHING short of surgery that can fix that issue.
However if your face isn't draining lymph as well as it should, and in amongst some of the slowly drooping fat pads (alas it is all of our fates), there is congested fluid, so far I really like the cheap ultrasonic/galvanic massagers you can get on ebay. I've been trying one for a week, and my face has responded well. Along with relaxing any stressed muscles that may be causing wrinkles or pulling your face into tightened expressions that can resemble sag (if the muscles that are tight are pulling downwards, like the brow for instance), it seems to be good at helping product penetrate as well. However, I don't fully understand them yet, so I am holding off from a full endorsement.
LED lights are fantastic for improving skin tone in my skin. I bought an omnilux which has the professional grade red/ir lights used in dermatologists on a small handheld panel. I recently embarked on an intensive treatment schedule with it after not using for a while, and can see noticeable freshening of my skin tone, and my skin feels plump and soft. It will not give you a face lift, and at home gadgets usually require a lot of your time to get noticeable results. To get results equal to a salon treatment (in which the omnilux study showed great results) I need to hold the panel over each section for twenty minutes. It takes me at least six areas to cover my face. I just break it up into sections whenever I'm reading, or on the computer. But it's a time investment for sure.
I have started dermaplaning with a number 10 scalpel, in which you very gently shave the upper stratum corneum off. I have done two three treatments, and have found it both the most gentle and effective exfoliation method I have ever tried. I am experienced with shaving my husband with a straight razor, and use old fashioned Double edge razors myself, so it was not difficult to manage the scalpel at all. The movements are very light, and you hold it on an angle that won't cause cuts. It has minimized surface lines, pigmentation, and product penetration is amazing afterwards. I certainly would not do it daily as some dermatologists recommend (well the shaving anyway) once a month is plenty for me. I believe it is far superior to dermabrasion. I got terrible PIH from dermabrasion. Obviously here I am once again recommending things that most people would be not the least bit comfortable with. Apparently using a bic razor is effective too, though I found it far too hard to manipulate around my facial contours like my forehead. But you could try that method if you are interested.
Please anyone else chime in with whatever I forgot. And, be careful. Please do thorough research on everything you try. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:30 am |
| We know that all already |
_________________
54 , Pico Toner,Reaura,Tanaka carpe diem |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:56 am |
| Hi Trigger for my fight against aging i use everyday retinol,vitamin c and glycolic peel once a week.I also use led light therapy for collagen stimulation.To tone i use tua trend and the pico.But my best buy yet has to be the my-m dermapen .I dermarolled for years but never could get the results i wanted but using the dermapen i can get deeper in to the scars from acne .I so far have done 2 treatments and already see a difference.x |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:11 am |
This is a good summary.
I would add consistent use of sunscreen. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:30 am |
| I dont use suncreen because of all the harmful chemicals;whatI do do:I stay out of the sun period.The sun is the no 1 aging factor in skin.Just look at all those long distance runners and how sun damaged and wrinkled those faces are!I arrange my day to avoid the sun.I only work in the yard before the sun comes up and as it goes down, or if I am heavy shade. I keep a sunscreen on my driver side windows and wear gloves when I driveI always wear a hat if I have to walk from the parking lot to the store. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:52 am |
This is a GREAT thread!
So, to recap the best approaches for aging skin--a good starting place for newbies to research further: (p.s. are TCA's and Glycolic peels the same?)If someone could add the recommended frequency of use ranges of each of the following it would be great! (I left off the skin shaving because it sounds too scary for a newbie  we can add that one in for our advanced lists!)
Tried and True and Agreed Upon
*Vitamin C (builds collagen)daily?
*Retin A (corrects damage/thickens skin)Daily?
*TCAs (peels from MUAC and Platinum skin
care) (USE below 25%!)
*Dermarolling--Every 6 wks. (My -M electric pen)
*Ultrasonic/Galvanic massagers (e bay)
*LED lights (For tone)--Omnilux
More expensive, not yet tried and true but, very promising results for some and a lot of people appear to have good results using the following combo.
*Tria or Reaura; Lasers
*Tua Trend or Pico (Microcurrent)
Controversial? but, great results claimed by many:
*Facial exercises--(Carolyn, LouLou, Facial Flex)
*Bone Restructuring (Yamuna)
*Tanaka Massage (free videos on YouTube) |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:10 pm |
Oh duh, yeah, the sun!
I always wear a physical zinc based sunscreen on my face, neck, chest and hands, and always wear a hat, but since I moved to Nth America and found myself becoming less well with my over reactive immune system, I now go out occasionally in a bikini before ten or after 2pm for twenty minutes or so to get some real sun. I believe it's good for you. but I won't age my face, neck, chest or hands for it! My legs bum, back and tummy can have a light tan. I use lots of antioxidants and vitamin c serum on my skin to protect as well as I can against free radicals. This is controversial, but I truly believe a bit of sun is healthy and needed. Not on my face though 
As far as the TCA peels, they are not the only peels available. They are certainly some of the strongest, besides a jessner combo, and I bought those up because I know for a fact they will firm and tighten an aging skin. And I know there are people on this forum really keen for those kind of results. A TCA peel, depending on the depth can remove wrinkles of varying depths, some quite deep, but you would need to find one of the threads on EDS where they are talked about in depth. They are really intense with down time if you are hoping to remove wrinkles and get firming results, and you definitely can't start with a deep one like that. 12% is the strongest percentage that is recommended to begin with I think, or maybe 15% if you are not peel naive and know your skin has been prepared by retinol use and other peels.
There are many different kinds of peels that will deal with textural issues, pigmentation and other aging concerns. Glycolic is one, lactic acid, and different ones suit different skins. If you are prone to pigmentation you need to learn which will best work for your skin type. There is a lot of info on EDS.
I'm thrilled to hear someone is loving their My-M. I won't get to try mine till Thursday. I'm looking forward to it! They aren't for everyone, but I believe in the science behind it, and obviously so do the top dermatologists as fraxel laser works on a similar idea.
Omnilux don't make at home devices any more, only professional models. But you can find great LED's, from cheap right up to super expensive. They are time consuming, but give the skin a healthy glow.
I do not believe in facial exercises, just like most dermatologists and trained professionals out there who have studied anatomy and physiology for years. Unfortunately I did try them and developed the same thing many many others got for their trouble a problem I didn't have when I started. But people can make their own minds up on that. I have never seen any convincing results to this day, but I have seen many before and afters with the usual lighting tricks, and a lot of bad plastic surgery and fillers purported to be the results of exercises. Not for me.
Facial Massage, I think it's great, so long as you don't inflame your skin too much by overdoing it. Too much inflammation will lead to aging, so we need to know when to rest, too. But, a good ten minute massage a day I think does wonders for the blood circulation, lymph, and relaxation of stressed muscles. I'm doing my massage with the head of the ultrasonic massager at the moment and it feels great and works a lot better than just with my hands.
Microcurrent, I think the results one can expect from this technology have been way overstated on this forum. You will NOT get a facelift. This has never been shown to be the case anywhere that I have seen. I think it will help bring about healthy changes in the skin and freshen your complexion, relax stressed muscles which could improve the wrinkles that are caused by over-tight muscles, but I do not believe you will lift your face the way it has been stated here repeatedly. Could be a nice adjunct therapy after you have got the basics happening. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:31 pm |
This *is* a good idea for a thread!
1) Diet, baby, diet! Beauty comes from within, and you can't be young without a healthy diet. No question. Difficulty is finding what diet works for you. A diet of animal protein, fruits, veggies, and a little starch works best for me. Other's experiences may vary.
2) Microcurrent. So far microcurrent is really knocking my socks off (not a surprise, lol). The single quickest thing I've ever tried that got noticeable results. I recommend it to anyone looking for serious rejuvenation. Refer to the thread "Pictures: progress with microcurrent" for more information.
3) Copper peptides. I've been a long time (if sporadic) user of CP's. I recommend those, with breaks sometimes. Some people say don't need breaks with CP's but breaks work for me. They help promote collagen and elastin production.
4) Hydroxy acids. A few years back I got really into hydroxy acids and saw good results. I recommend them but don't like the photosensitivity so don't use them much any more. But they're very effective for clarifying your complexion and bringing that glow to the surface.
5) Vitamin C serum. I like just ascorbic acid and water. It's cheap. I quit doing it for a while because of the need to frequently make fresh batches, but since I found out you can use warm water to dissolve the ascorbic acid powder without degrading the effetctiveness of the vitamin C itself, I'll be a regular user again. So much easier than trying to dissolve in cold water. Also, to be safe, don't use vitamin C at the same time as copper peptides. Use them on opposite ends of the day. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:32 pm |
| lucyluc wrote: |
| I dont use suncreen because of all the harmful chemicals;whatI do do:I stay out of the sun period.The sun is the no 1 aging factor in skin.Just look at all those long distance runners and how sun damaged and wrinkled those faces are!I arrange my day to avoid the sun.I only work in the yard before the sun comes up and as it goes down, or if I am heavy shade. I keep a sunscreen on my driver side windows and wear gloves when I driveI always wear a hat if I have to walk from the parking lot to the store. |
you must! try physical suncreens like TiO2 and ZnO... |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:42 pm |
I use Marie Veronique organic/physical sunscreen for my face to avoid nasty chemicals, works very nicely for me.
Lucyluc - what kind of gloves do you use for driving? I wear sun protection jackets (from Coolibar) outside or while driving to avoid putting sunscreen on my arms; but could not find a solution for hands. Would appreciate help here.
Also, a side note - there is some research that LEDs cause short term gain/long term problems; so I stopped using mine (I have 2 Lightstims).
HTH |
_________________
Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:46 pm |
| sigma, what research? Haven't heard about this. I haven't used my Quasar much in a long time but was thinking about dragging it out after I got comfy with all the other gadgets I've recently gotten. Now I'm thinking twice about that. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:55 pm |
| can anyone recommend a good organic brand of Retin A product? I'd love to try, but can't find anything from my usual organic brands. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:04 pm |
I would add face exercises and exercise in general.
face exercises has really helped me in toning up my face and some fillin in of depressions but the one on upper cheek is a tough one!
I go to the gym 5 to 6 times a week n that keeps me in a good physical condition, I m sure it helps my skin too.. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:26 pm |
I second sporadic use of copper peptides. I use them once or twice per week, and occasionally take breaks also. I rotate most of my skin care like this, including retin a. Copper peptides have great studies and science behind them (at least the first generation do, but I feel I can trust the man that made the discovery of such an important antiaging peptide on his second generation). They have worked for keeping my formerly sun damaged skin clear and bright-ish.
I like the ever popular home-made Kassy's C serum. Easy, and feels nice. I use raspberry seed oil instead of jojoba because of its proven photo protective abilities, and it smells beautiful too.
I make a number of other serums, sometimes following someone like Fawnie who can be found on another skin care forum a lot. The KInNiaNag is amazing on pigmentation and for skin brightening! I am about to make my own tetra C retinol and e oil for dermarolling. DIY products can be fun if you can spare a bit of time. It's a bit like cooking on a smaller scale. If you like cooking, you'll like DIY. Otherwise, study up on what the good ingredients are, and buy the no nonsense products. Many things have been proven not to even penetrate the skin - peptides for one, stem cells for another hyaluronic acid also... And, I've spent money on both. Now I take the time to find out what works first.
Please point us to the study on LED's being harmful! I just broke mine out again after a long hiatus. I have only ever read good stuff, and believe me, as with everything, I did my study.
You can buy retin A super cheap from ALldaychemist.com in India. Shipping is $25, but at around $4 a tube, you still save big time. Get a few while you're at it. Most start at the lower strengths and work up, or keep it low...it's personal choice. I don't have a preference of brand. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:18 pm |
| sigma wrote: |
Also, a side note - there is some research that LEDs cause short term gain/long term problems; so I stopped using mine (I have 2 Lightstims).
HTH |
YIKES! I'm busy reading, and now writing with the LEDS gadget on my face!!! So please, what are the long term problems? I use the LED on and off... |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:24 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
| sigma wrote: |
Also, a side note - there is some research that LEDs cause short term gain/long term problems; so I stopped using mine (I have 2 Lightstims).
HTH |
YIKES! I'm busy reading, and now writing with the LEDS gadget on my face!!! So please, what are the long term problems? I use the LED on and off... |
 hilarious Atester, so wAs I when I read that. I think I'll wait until I see the study though before I get too worked up. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:29 pm |
| trigger wrote: |
Omnilux don't make at home devices any more, only professional models. But you can find great LED's, from cheap right up to super expensive. They are time consuming, but give the skin a healthy glow.
. |
Any idea why they don't make the Omnilux home device any more? I like the fact I can choose to use IR or only RED in the one they came up with.
My recent searches have been geared toward Far Infrared, not for beauty but for my back/bone/muscle problems. I bought myself a portable sauna about two or maybe three years ago with IR and it really helps my joint/back aches. Can't remember well, but I think I actually posted or asked about this here at the time. Don't really know how they would affect skin but I expect they would be really good. Therefore I think it is good to take just a few minutes a day for the skin to get direct sunlight with no sunscreen, just a few minutes though!!
I actually work most time outside and wear lots of sunscreen on my face. I'm currently searching for one with no chemicals, it is not easy to find any that doesn't leave a white coating. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:43 pm |
Re.: LEDs - that information was posted on the other forum by Dragon, I no longer remember details (it increases ROS, etc.); my 2nd point of concern was that my oncological dermatologist (at MSKCC) did not give me a green light on using them ( I had skin cancer in the past), while he gave me OK to use lasers.
So I stopped using my Lighstims, and have no regrets or need for them.
I use mostly organic products, it took me a loooong while to find ones that are effective, and do not miss LEDs at all.
I do have some sagging, so was looking into microcurrent/PICO, but now I do not think it is a full solution, just a nice add-on.
I also find Yamuna effective, and some roller massage; also cupping, if done correctly, can be more effective imho then LEDs.
HTH |
_________________
Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:15 pm |
| Thanks Sigma, Dragon seems very knowledgeable and fact based, so I'll have to go look into what she said. I wouldn't miss the long treatment times with LED's. I only did it for a bit when I got it, got fed up with it, and only recently bought it out. My skin is looking more plump and fresh than usual, but I have also added ultrasound at the same time which I really suspect of the biggest results, seeing I have never seen anything like this on my skin before. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:47 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
| I bought myself a portable sauna about two or maybe three years ago with IR and it really helps my joint/back aches. |
Do tell. I've read about these and they pique my interest. How much did it cost? Who is manufacturer? And how much space does it take up? Does your head fit inside or is it one of those tent-like things where your body goes inside and your head sticks out the top? |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:23 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
| trigger wrote: |
Omnilux don't make at home devices any more, only professional models. But you can find great LED's, from cheap right up to super expensive. They are time consuming, but give the skin a healthy glow.
. |
Any idea why they don't make the Omnilux home device any more? I like the fact I can choose to use IR or only RED in the one they came up with.
My recent searches have been geared toward Far Infrared, not for beauty but for my back/bone/muscle problems. I bought myself a portable sauna about two or maybe three years ago with IR and it really helps my joint/back aches. Can't remember well, but I think I actually posted or asked about this here at the time. Don't really know how they would affect skin but I expect they would be really good. Therefore I think it is good to take just a few minutes a day for the skin to get direct sunlight with no sunscreen, just a few minutes though!!
I actually work most time outside and wear lots of sunscreen on my face. I'm currently searching for one with no chemicals, it is not easy to find any that doesn't leave a white coating. |
It's a bummer omnilux doesn't make them anymore, the lights are amazing quality. I wish I bought two just in case. I got it for just over $100 too if I remember! On the pain, it is absolutely mind bogglingly effective. I had never really tried it for that, until recently I had my neck injured that was sending searing pain down one of my arms. The pain was constant burning pain, caused by nerve irritation in C6 where I have a herniated disc (one of them lol). Anyway, as I had it out for my face last week, after suffering for days with no sign of relief, barely able to sleep because of the discomfort, I did a session on my shoulder/ arm, and noticed immediate reduction in pain. Next day I put it on my neck for a half hour or so, and my pain decreased from agony to barely a whisper. I thought I was in for my usual months long recovery period. Amazing. |
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Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:18 pm |
| any gloves will do,Isometimes use surgical gloves(I use when I do housework,it saves your hands, and keeps them smooth)I nip off the tip of the index finger so i can use my phone or GPS.I also use the cheap mittens from walmart they sell in the winter for 2. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:18 pm |
| trigger wrote: |
| ATester wrote: |
| trigger wrote: |
Omnilux don't make at home devices any more, only professional models. But you can find great LED's, from cheap right up to super expensive. They are time consuming, but give the skin a healthy glow.
. |
Any idea why they don't make the Omnilux home device any more? I like the fact I can choose to use IR or only RED in the one they came up with.
My recent searches have been geared toward Far Infrared, not for beauty but for my back/bone/muscle problems. I bought myself a portable sauna about two or maybe three years ago with IR and it really helps my joint/back aches. Can't remember well, but I think I actually posted or asked about this here at the time. Don't really know how they would affect skin but I expect they would be really good. Therefore I think it is good to take just a few minutes a day for the skin to get direct sunlight with no sunscreen, just a few minutes though!!
I actually work most time outside and wear lots of sunscreen on my face. I'm currently searching for one with no chemicals, it is not easy to find any that doesn't leave a white coating. |
It's a bummer omnilux doesn't make them anymore, the lights are amazing quality. I wish I bought two just in case. I got it for just over $100 too if I remember! On the pain, it is absolutely mind bogglingly effective. I had never really tried it for that, until recently I had my neck injured that was sending searing pain down one of my arms. The pain was constant burning pain, caused by nerve irritation in C6 where I have a herniated disc (one of them lol). Anyway, as I had it out for my face last week, after suffering for days with no sign of relief, barely able to sleep because of the discomfort, I did a session on my shoulder/ arm, and noticed immediate reduction in pain. Next day I put it on my neck for a half hour or so, and my pain decreased from agony to barely a whisper. I thought I was in for my usual months long recovery period. Amazing. |
The had entered into an agreement to sell devices as marketed by Dr. Perricone...maybe they didn't sell as many as hoped? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:27 pm |
Random feedback:
I don't think we can make unqualified statements about Vitamin C. It has only been proven effective in certain formulas, under certain conditions (details found all over this forum).
Have these two been proven effective?:
Ultrasonic/Galvanic massagers (e bay)
*LED lights (For tone)--Omnilux
If so, please point me to the links, I need to read about that. Thank you.
BFG |
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Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:34 pm |
also adding:
certain hormone based serums have been proven to prevent or reverse the signs of skin aging.
various professional lasers
I would add that some of the methods mentioned here should not be taken lightly. One always should do their homework. I believe it's just as easy to create damage to your skin as it is to reverse damage to the skin with some of these serums/gadgets, etc.
Best, BFG |
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